Chinese words in daily life
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
å‡�结和å‡�固我一å�‘以æ�¥éƒ½ä»¥ä¸ºæ˜¯æ°´ç»“æˆ�冰，原æ�¥ä»Žæ°´è’¸æ±½å�˜æˆ�æ°´ç� 也å�¯ä»¥å•Šã€‚哈哈。照我看，两方é�¢çš„è¿�用都å�¯ä»¥å•¦ã€‚
å¯¹å•Šï¼Œä½ çŽ°åœ¨æ��起，我æ‰�想到原æ�¥youtube上å�¯ä»¥è§‚看。å�ªå�¯æƒœ“爱”找ä¸�到。这个胡雪岩其实是一ä½�末清年代的著å��商人。他为人能言善é�“，远è§�å�“识，是当时ä¸å›½ç»�æµŽçš„ä¸€è‚¡æŽ¨åŠ¨åŠ›ã€‚è¿™æœ¬ä¹¦æ˜¯è¯´æ˜Žä»–æ€Žæ ·ä½¿ç”¨ä¸‰å��å…计ç»�商，里é�¢æ‰€åŒ…å�«çš„è¯�汇，æˆ�è¯ä»¥å�Šè°šè¯å¤šçš„是。
Ok lor. 其實我也�懂啦。
å› çˆ²æˆ‘ä¸�是“æ„›”迷，所以我ä¸�知é�““æ„›”迷的瘋狂原來是這樣的瘋狂的呀。我從第8æ’é�“放é€�第1集起看到30幾集就ä¸�看了。
Har, 干焦屎，我還以爲胡雪岩是ç�¾ä»£äººå‘�，我還以爲她是女人å‘�ï¼Œé‚„å¥½ä½ æœ‰ä»‹ç´¹ã€‚ä¸�好æ„�æ€�，我看了很想笑，ä¸�é�Žé‚„是è¦�æ��醒一下，以後è¦�用“清末”ä¸�然就“晚清”，“末清”æ˜¯éŒ¯çš„ã€‚å¥½å¥½å¥½ï¼Œæˆ‘å€‘æœŸå¾…ä½ ç¶²è²¼çš„åˆ°ä¾†ã€‚
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
è…®å¸ sounds cantonese lol. I'd prefer 大å°�. Yes, hard disk is 硬盤.....
å°�，腮å¸æœ‰ç²µéŸ³çš„å½±å�，我講的è�¯èªžæ˜¯æ–¹è¨€å‘³å¾ˆé‡�的，我引以爲豪，我ä¸�會故æ„�è£�腔作勢å¸ç¿’那些北方人講的滿å�£é›£ä»¥å…¥è€³çš„鴂舌的。
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Cam across this today...how do we say "focus all our energy" in æˆ�è¯ï¼Ÿ
Are you to trying to induce the �語 「全神貫注� or something else? �精會神？
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Tks for the correction on 晚清! haha. And yes the �語 is 全神貫注. Lost for a long time until my friend mentioned it in conversation.
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ok, 少用就�常記啦。
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Got this from one of the comments on Wang Peng Fei, the PRC chap sent back to China for making fun of Sgporeans:
“æ�Žå…‰è€€èªžéŒ„都記錄說,”怎麼說我們都ä¸�é�Žå�ªæ˜¯ç¦�建ã€�廣æ�±ç‰åœ°ç›®ä¸�è˜ä¸�ã€�沒有田地的農民的後裔，他們有的å�»å„˜æ˜¯ç•™å®ˆä¸åŽŸçš„é�”官顯è¦�ã€�文人å¸å£«çš„後代。”å°±é€£åœ‹å®¶é ˜è¢–é€™å�¯ä»¥æ”¾æ£„è‡ªè² ,接å�—ç�¾å¯¦.æ–°åŠ å�¡äººä¸é‚£äº›è�¯æ–‡æ°´æº–å·®,幾話就å�ªæœƒç½µå¨˜æ’²è¡—çš„è�¯äººç¼ºä¸�敢承èª�ç�¾å¯¦.這種自å�‘的心ç�†,簡直是世界è�¯äººçš„笑柄.”
Quite a number of PRC Chinese think very lowly of our standard of mandarin and I don't blame them. Our cultural infrastructure does not provide the necessary support.
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This china chap who got sent back home, he said that sgporeans use the word �工 for "work". He said that's actually referring to manual work and the proper term should be 工作 for our normal employment. What do you all think?
His theory has it that the term �工 came about due to "our coolie forefathers" who fled from Qing china to seek a better life. And it doesn't help the LKY has ever told 邓�平 that our "stock" are poor immigrants and farmers from fujian and guangdong, so we don't have the entrepreneurial blood in us as compared to the taiwanese and hongkies. Well, tell that to the chinese in Indonesia. They come from that "stock" too and at least 99.9% of them are businessmen in big and small ways. That's on a side note anyway.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Got this from one of the comments on Wang Peng Fei, the PRC chap sent back to China for making fun of Sgporeans:
“æ�Žå…‰è€€èªžéŒ„都記錄說,”怎麼說我們都ä¸�é�Žå�ªæ˜¯ç¦�建ã€�廣æ�±ç‰åœ°ç›®ä¸�è˜ä¸�ã€�沒有田地的農民的後裔，他們有的å�»å„˜æ˜¯ç•™å®ˆä¸åŽŸçš„é�”官顯è¦�ã€�文人å¸å£«çš„後代。”å°±é€£åœ‹å®¶é ˜è¢–é€™å�¯ä»¥æ”¾æ£„è‡ªè² ,接å�—ç�¾å¯¦.æ–°åŠ å�¡äººä¸é‚£äº›è�¯æ–‡æ°´æº–å·®,幾話就å�ªæœƒç½µå¨˜æ’²è¡—çš„è�¯äººç¼ºä¸�敢承èª�ç�¾å¯¦.這種自å�‘的心ç�†,簡直是世界è�¯äººçš„笑柄.”
Quite a number of PRC Chinese think very lowly of our standard of mandarin and I don't blame them. Our cultural infrastructure does not provide the necessary support.
It is speculated by some other people from CNA forum that these comments should be written by either Malaysians or Taiwanese, due to the Traditional Characters.
My own comments is, the observation is true, as when I talked with China Chinese people, I have rarely met with ones that criticize our Chinese standards, most just care about themselves and heck care. My own experience with Malaysian Chinese is different, with some looking down on our Chinese standards, looking down on our quality of our local food, looking down on our traditional family values, looking down on the way we conduct our day to day living. Similarly, I also encountered Singaporean Chinese who look down on Malaysian Chinese, looking down on the way they dress, looking down on the way they think etc.
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Well, sad to hear of such things but I guess it happens. Comparisons are inevitable. I have malaysian chinese friends and I don't think their standard in general is any higher than sgporeans. They have a lot of rojak in their speak, very much like us.
Msians think sgporeans are wooden blockheads while we think they're low class. Hahaha all I can say is...what a bunch of ignoramuses!! Whichever side of the causeway that is!
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
This china chap who got sent back home, he said that sgporeans use the word �工 for "work". He said that's actually referring to manual work and the proper term should be 工作 for our normal employment. What do you all think?
His theory has it that the term �工 came about due to "our coolie forefathers" who fled from Qing china to seek a better life. And it doesn't help the LKY has ever told 邓�平 that our "stock" are poor immigrants and farmers from fujian and guangdong, so we don't have the entrepreneurial blood in us as compared to the taiwanese and hongkies. Well, tell that to the chinese in Indonesia. They come from that "stock" too and at least 99.9% of them are businessmen in big and small ways. That's on a side note anyway.
All these are fake theories lah.
They usually come out from the mouths of non-linguists. (mostly also with crooked agenda or big ego psychoed into them)
�工 is simply a verb-noun 動賓�構。 I just pick a simple website that explains this:
http://hk.chiculture.net/0615/html/c25/0615c25.html
Chinese is a SVO language, meaning it places the object after the verb as it's usual word order.
If let's say someone comes face-to-face tell me this, I will then say that 工作 is a word that is more influenced by the structure of the northern barbarian languages such as Manchurian, Mongolian that places the verb after the noun, eg. 工作 is a noun-verb 賓動�構 structure. Then I will tell him, "You are a barbarian".
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Well, I believe either version is acceptable then. Just that it can cause misunderstandings without realising it. A clash of cultures, I'd say.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Well, I believe either version is acceptable then. Just that it can cause misunderstandings without realising it. A clash of cultures, I'd say.
It can only cause misunderstanding because they refuse to read widely.
He study until so high level, worse than people like us who did not study much.
Every thing is the world also can clash of culture mah, if I remain swakoo. Like if I refuse to understand why some culture eat with hand, I also forever will not understand mah.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
It can only cause misunderstanding because they refuse to read widely.
He study until so high level, worse than people like us who did not study much.
Every thing is the world also can clash of culture mah, if I remain swakoo. Like if I refuse to understand why some culture eat with hand, I also forever will not understand mah.
Their country has a population of 2b? And they have only come out of the wilderness not too long ago. China is their 天下 and their 天下 is China lol. Some are myopic but there are also many who are plain jealous. The top 1000 richest in their country can easily buy our little red dot here but still, the typical fresh grad from there earns much less than ours. They can get into a big argument with you if you criticise Mao and others claim to have 4000 years of history behind them but behave like monkeys.
And many of us are proficient in English as well (disclaimer: sgforums is an exception), hence their condescending behaviour.
Having said that, no country in the world is perfect, Singaporeans aren't saints either. I respect the Chinese because I am one myself. Moreover, I love their history so much.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Their country has a population of 2b? And they have only come out of the wilderness not too long ago. China is their 天下 and their 天下 is China lol. Some are myopic but there are also many who are plain jealous. The top 1000 richest in their country can easily buy our little red dot here but still, the typical fresh grad from there earns much less than ours. They can get into a big argument with you if you criticise Mao and others claim to have 4000 years of history behind them but behave like monkeys.
And many of us are proficient in English as well (disclaimer: sgforums is an exception), hence their condescending behaviour.
Having said that, no country in the world is perfect, Singaporeans aren't saints either. I respect the Chinese because I am one myself. Moreover, I love their history so much.
Everything you said is so correct ! Ha Ha Ha.
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Regarding the translations of the �語s here (http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/432594?page=13#post_10300096) into Hokkien, Clivebenss has helped me vetted through them and enhanced the post.
May you take a look:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/425775?page=9#post_10314138
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Regarding the translations of the �語s here (http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/432594?page=13#post_10300096) into Hokkien, Clivebenss has helped me vetted through them and enhanced the post.
May you take a look:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/425775?page=9#post_10314138
Tks :) I think of the many idioms, I have only heard the hokkien 人 say æœ‰å¿ƒæ— åŠ› before.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Tks :) I think of the many idioms, I have only heard the hokkien 人 say æœ‰å¿ƒæ— åŠ› before.
May you share with us your Cantonese �語s in the future. We will look forward to it.
I have scanned an old article written by our local author, �文�。 May you enjoy the article here:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/425775?page=10#post_10314691
Do let me know any comments. It is about using dialects to read out T'ang poems.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
May you share with us your Cantonese �語s in the future. We will look forward to it.
I have scanned an old article written by our local author, �文�。 May you enjoy the article here:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/425775?page=10#post_10314691
Do let me know any comments. It is about using dialects to read out T'ang poems.
I used to watch a lot of TVB serials and a lot of the idioms used are literal translations of what we normally see in Mandarin.
As for the article by �文�, it's interesting that he even thought of reciting poems with dialects haha. Sad to say, dialects in Singapore can only go one way....death. It has almost died with my in laws....and my cousin did not even have a chinese name till he had to print his wedding card!!
Met a 77 year old hokkien uncle at a mountain resort recently, claims to be hokkien but he can't speak a word of it. Lost touch....totally gone.
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Ok, here goes the words and idioms from the book: 胡雪岩：�纵商场 36 计
如�一辙
�案��
摆谱
�机四�
大厦将倾
大悟彻悟
风云��
相互帮衬
两害相衡�其轻
æ¯«æ— ç¾�绊
æ— ç”šé«˜è®º
祸��当
至关��
�义
(My own reference: stopped at p2)
Just two pages and there are so many words worth noticing!! Will post the meanings the day after.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Ok, here goes the words and idioms from the book: 胡雪岩：�纵商场 36 计
如�一辙
�案��
摆谱
�机四�
大厦将倾
大悟彻悟
风云��
相互帮衬
两害相衡�其轻
æ¯«æ— ç¾�绊
æ— ç”šé«˜è®º
祸��当
至关��
�义
(My own reference: stopped at p2)
Just two pages and there are so many words worth noticing!! Will post the meanings the day after.
如�一� ＞ I use �出一� more often. Meaning carve out from the same model literally (eg. both children look exactly like dad or mom, can use this. Or this dialect and that dialect has deep similarities within their phonology, use to describe them having same common origin)。 � has something to do with the wheel of the olden days carts.
�案�絕 ＞ When everything or everyone around is at peace / calmness / no big change / cannot think of solution, suddenly someone comes up with a brilliant idea and everyone just �案�絕.
æ“ºèœ ï¼ž dunno
�機四� ＞ Imminent danger.
大廈將傾 ＞ huh? This is a saying? I translate literally as "Building gonna collapse"
大悟徹悟 ＞ Understand inside out / fully / totally.
風雲�變 ＞ Drastic changes happening in the society or economy.
互相幫襯 ＞ Patronise each other. 幫襯 is still used in current Cantonese pɔŋ tsh'�n, meaning is "光顧" in Mandarin.
兩害相衡�其輕 ＞ Choose the better of the 2 evils.
毫無羈絆 ＞ No restrictions. Free to act on something without constraints.
無甚高論 ＞ dunno. I guess "dun haf much indepth talks (<as in empty talks but no action)"
���儅 ＞ Survive through thick and thin together.
至關é‡�è¦� ＞ æ–°åŠ å�¡äººåœ¨æ–¼ä¿�衛方言文化，是當å‰�至關é‡�è¦�的任務。 "Utmost importance"
�義 ＞ Main gist (referring to more of a contextual meaning of a book or philosophy)
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Excellent thread.. we really need to pull up our standard of Mandarin.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I used to watch a lot of TVB serials and a lot of the idioms used are literal translations of what we normally see in Mandarin.
As for the article by �文�, it's interesting that he even thought of reciting poems with dialects haha. Sad to say, dialects in Singapore can only go one way....death. It has almost died with my in laws....and my cousin did not even have a chinese name till he had to print his wedding card!!
Met a 77 year old hokkien uncle at a mountain resort recently, claims to be hokkien but he can't speak a word of it. Lost touch....totally gone.
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Any idioms which are not literal translations of Mandarin that you remember?
For example, I provided one here in your thread before:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/432594?page=4#post_10282930單單打打 - not used in Mandarin； In Cantonese it refers to "Back stabbing each other"
〉 嘮亂骨é - not used in Mandarinï¼› In Cantonese it refers to "Can stand each other"
☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
There are some which changes some words respectively in the Cantonese and the Mandarin version (like those from the Hokkien versions which I provided above in your thread):
example: In Mandarin, it is usually said as �雞���把米, but in Cantonese, �雞唔到�喳米 is more common。
Do you have any more examples?
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æ¢�æ–‡ç¦� wrote in that article：「從æ·å�²çš„角度來看，自行 “洗掉” 身上語言的人，ç‰æ–¼å°‡è‡ªå·±ç”Ÿå‘½æŸ�部份洗掉。ã€�
What do you think of that? Many parents inculcate to their children that they should not speak the dialect, just learn Mandarin and English, they are washing away a part of themselves. The government stopped the usage of dialects in public TV, but why did these parents self-impose the dialects from their child even at home ?
☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
The poem quoted by �文�, is that "Betty City" poem contributed by FireIce in your "Poems" threads, did you notice or not
Here: http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281#post_10300952
Since you are Cantonese, I think you know why �文� thought of reciting poems in 粵語 right？
If you try reading it in �語，the 3 rhyming words at the end of the poem does not rhyme:
zhÄ�o cí bái dì cÇŽi yún jiÄ�n (in phonetics it is read as "tÉ•iÉ›n")
qiÄ�n lÇ� jiÄ�ng líng yÄ« rì huán (in phonetics it is read as "xÊ·an")
liÇŽng àn yuán shÄ“ng tí bú zhù
qÄ«ng zhÅ�u yÇ� guò wàn chóng shÄ�n (in phonetics it is read as "Ê‚an")If you read it in 粵語 (in this case I'm referring to Kwongchau Cantonese ), the 3 rhyming words at the end of the poem can rhyme fully:
tʃiu tʃʼi paak t�i tʃʼɔi w�n kaan
tʃʼin lei kɔŋ liŋ j�t j�t waan
lœÅ‹ Å‹É”n jyn siÅ‹ tʼÉ�i pÉ�t tʃy
hiŋ tʃ�u ji kʷɔ maan tʃʼuŋ saan !How marvellous it is, to read the Chinese poems in Cantonese !!
Maybe you try reading these 3 poems you translated, in both versions, Cantonese and Mandarin, and tell me which one rhymes more?
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281#post_10300886
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281?page=2#post_10301789
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281?page=5#post_10313168( I have an unexpected answer for you already, but I'm gonna wait until you give your views then I will share with you the findings
)☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
I would not compare your in-laws and the 77-year old man, with Singaporeans like us:
- First, Chinese are minority in Indonesia
- Second, it is a convert-or-die scenario for Chinese in Java
Therefore, Singaporeans have no reason to say that we forget our dialects
☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
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Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:
Excellent thread.. we really need to pull up our standard of Mandarin.
You must thank Rock^Star for all his efforts.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
... or everyone around is at peace / calmness / no big change / cannot think of solution, suddenly someone comes up ...大悟徹悟 ＞ Understand inside out / fully / totally. 風雲�變 ＞ Drastic changes happening in the society or economy. 互相幫襯 ＞ Patronise ...
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
Any idioms which are not literal translations of Mandarin that you remember?
For example, I provided one here in your thread before:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/432594?page=4#post_10282930單單打打 - not used in Mandarin； In Cantonese it refers to "Back stabbing each other"
〉 嘮亂骨é - not used in Mandarinï¼› In Cantonese it refers to "Can stand each other"
☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
There are some which changes some words respectively in the Cantonese and the Mandarin version (like those from the Hokkien versions which I provided above in your thread):
example: In Mandarin, it is usually said as �雞���把米, but in Cantonese, �雞唔到�喳米 is more common。
Do you have any more examples?
☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★
æ¢�æ–‡ç¦� wrote in that article：「從æ·å�²çš„角度來看，自行 “洗掉” 身上語言的人，ç‰æ–¼å°‡è‡ªå·±ç”Ÿå‘½æŸ�部份洗掉。ã€�
What do you think of that? Many parents inculcate to their children that they should not speak the dialect, just learn Mandarin and English, they are washing away a part of themselves. The government stopped the usage of dialects in public TV, but why did these parents self-impose the dialects from their child even at home ?
☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
The poem quoted by �文�, is that "Betty City" poem contributed by FireIce in your "Poems" threads, did you notice or not
Here: http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281#post_10300952
Since you are Cantonese, I think you know why �文� thought of reciting poems in 粵語 right？
If you try reading it in �語，the 3 rhyming words at the end of the poem does not rhyme:
zhÄ�o cí bái dì cÇŽi yún jiÄ�n (in phonetics it is read as "tÉ•iÉ›n")
qiÄ�n lÇ� jiÄ�ng líng yÄ« rì huán (in phonetics it is read as "xÊ·an")
liÇŽng àn yuán shÄ“ng tí bú zhù
qÄ«ng zhÅ�u yÇ� guò wàn chóng shÄ�n (in phonetics it is read as "Ê‚an")If you read it in 粵語 (in this case I'm referring to Kwongchau Cantonese ), the 3 rhyming words at the end of the poem can rhyme fully:
tʃiu tʃʼi paak t�i tʃʼɔi w�n kaan
tʃʼin lei kɔŋ liŋ j�t j�t waan
lœÅ‹ Å‹É”n jyn siÅ‹ tʼÉ�i pÉ�t tʃy
hiŋ tʃ�u ji kʷɔ maan tʃʼuŋ saan !How marvellous it is, to read the Chinese poems in Cantonese !!
Maybe you try reading these 3 poems you translated, in both versions, Cantonese and Mandarin, and tell me which one rhymes more?
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281#post_10300886
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281?page=2#post_10301789
http://sgforums.com/forums/3948/topics/434281?page=5#post_10313168( I have an unexpected answer for you already, but I'm gonna wait until you give your views then I will share with you the findings
)☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
I would not compare your in-laws and the 77-year old man, with Singaporeans like us:
- First, Chinese are minority in Indonesia
- Second, it is a convert-or-die scenario for Chinese in Java
Therefore, Singaporeans have no reason to say that we forget our dialects
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Honestly, I don't think I can recall any cantonese idiom/proverb unless you want bad words lol. My exposure to cantonese is not fantastic as my family speaks very basic cantonese....yes fluent enough but not the very qeem standard.
As for my posting of the poems which you have highlighted to me again, I've tried it in cantonese. I wouldn't say it sounds better than mandarin. Some songs are better sung in cantonese and some in mandarin. Even in hokkien too. I guess cantonese has more tones and sounds more melodious as compared to mandarin's four tones. Then again, I wouldn't say which one's better. Both sound like music to me. Maybe hokkiien is foreign to me so the best two sounding languages to me are mandarin and cantonese.