Born in sg, left very early, not sure how old but before the age of 1. I currently live in America, about 16.5 years old and have dual citizenship, the last time I renewed my singapore passport was at the age of 12 (dumb mistake). I have not received any notice by the CMPB to register or anything like that. I'm scared to call the ns call center just in case I'm not in the system and when I call them they put me back in or something.
Also, if I do end up going to ns, how will I fit in seeing as I don't speak chinese and have not been raised in the sg environment. Will I get treated differently by the captains or have to do extra work etc.?
Singapore by "law" did not recognize dual citizenship, but depend on your case like if one of your parent are foreigner, then dual citizenship will only be flexible to be "vaild" until you reach to the age of 21, you would have to make your choice whether you want to be Singaporean or "other" : http://singapore.usembassy.gov/dual_nationality.html
And by 21 year old if you decided to be an Singaporean, You will have to serve NS. And since Singapore is an multi-racial society, why you afraid knowing only English is an disadvanage ?
Originally posted by ntoh:Born in sg, left very early, not sure how old but before the age of 1. I currently live in America, about 16.5 years old and have dual citizenship, the last time I renewed my singapore passport was at the age of 12 (dumb mistake). I have not received any notice by the CMPB to register or anything like that. I'm scared to call the ns call center just in case I'm not in the system and when I call them they put me back in or something.
Be safe and renounce it now at the embassy. It's as easy as walking in and filling in a few forms.
If you're a citizen, you're in the system and will be called up, no citizen slips through. At 16.5-17 you'll be asked to "register" for NS, at 18 to serve it, and it is not a choice presented to you at the age of 21.
On Sg law not recognising dual citizenship: Singapore can't stop you from holding foreign citizenships or make you drop them, but it can enforce the obligations of Singapore citizenship. Holding foreign ones is not a barrier to having to serve NS.
Letting a Sg passport lapse does not equate to renouncing citizenship. For the sake of the serving population Singapore has to make visible efforts to pursue NS "defaulters". You possess the right to reside in another state. So drop Singapore's now.
Originally posted by ntoh:
Also, if I do end up going to ns, how will I fit in seeing as I don't speak chinese and have not been raised in the sg environment. Will I get treated differently by the captains or have to do extra work etc.?
Yes, it happens. People will say it happens less now but still a lot.
alize are you saying that I should renounce my singapore citizenship, because from what I understand that is not possible until the age of 21, I am reluctant to go but I understand my duty so I am willing to, however, my main concern is that since the CMPB has not yet sent me any notification and since my knowledge of all of the small technicalities is close to none, I might have already done something wrong to penalize my family.
Also, the 75k bond, is that something that I cannot avoid? My family is not doing great financially and I would hate to have them have to put up 75k bond just because of me.
M the name, I am mostly concerned because of the cultural differences and the fact that my lifestyle there will be more difficult without being able to relate. I was just wondering whether people would be open to a foreigner like myself rather than being harsh or demeaning. I understand the fact that being in the army might mean more to some than others, and that power might lead them into being not as welcoming so to say.
Refer to this case study:
http://sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/315302
Would that help? My parents keep telling me that even if I could renounce it I would still have to serve
Originally posted by ntoh:Would that help? My parents keep telling me that even if I could renounce it I would still have to serve
Refer to this official US Embassy policy:
http://singapore.usembassy.gov/dual_nationality.html
@ntoh,
You think just because we are singaporean you think we have "special" treatment in NS? Go and ask your singaporean friends especially those in combat side whether they go through BMT, have to walk 8km route march with "Ali Baba" bag, drink water parade with a bottle of water, and if during late night, got changing parade to dress in full battle order etc. Surprisely it is these "hardship" that bound us together and make many new friends.
And in Singapore, unless your batch have some "white horses" 's sons (you can also check out what this term mean) when you served your term, chance are your training might not be so tough after all. And their son might also be mixed blood with one parent being an foreigner like you. You are not the only one if you know what I mean.
While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Dual nationality may hamper efforts by the U.S. Government to provide diplomatic and consular protection to individuals overseas. When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person. A foreign country might claim you as a citizen of that country if (a) you were born there; (b) your parent or parents (and sometimes grandparents) are or were citizens of that country or (c) you are a naturalized U.S. citizen but are still considered a citizen under that country’s laws. (The oath you take when you are naturalized as a U.S. citizen (8 CFR 337.1) doesn’t mean the foreign country does not still regard you as a citizen of that country.) Public inquiries about the citizenship laws of other countries should be directed to the embassy or consulate of that country in the United States. 8 U.S.C. 1185(b) (Section 215(b) INA) and 22 CFR 53.1 require that U.S. citizens exit and enter the United States on a U.S. passport, with certain limited exceptions (22 CFR 53.2).
Under Singaporean law, an individual who automatically acquires Singaporean citizenship at birth retains that status even after acquiring U.S. citizenship. Singapore does not recognize dual nationality beyond the age of 21.
If you wish to renounce your U.S. citizenship, please send an email with your full name, date, place of birth, U.S. passport number and residency status in Singapore to [email protected]
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A U.S. citizen who is a resident or citizen of a foreign country may be subject to compulsory military service in that country. Although the United States recognizes the problems that may be caused by such foreign military service, there is little that we can do to prevent it since each sovereign country has the right to make its own laws on military service and apply them as it sees fit to its citizens and residents.
Such participation by citizens of our country in the internal affairs of foreign countries can cause problems in the conduct of our foreign relations and may involve U.S. citizens in hostilities against countries with which we are at peace. For this reason, U.S. citizens facing the possibility of foreign military service should do what is legally possible to avoid such service.
Federal statutes long in force prohibit certain aspects of foreign military service originating within the United States. The current laws are set forth in Section 958-960 of Title 18 of the United States Code. In Wiborg v. U.S. , 163 U.S. 632 (1896), the Supreme Court endorsed a lower court ruling that it was not a crime under U.S. law for an individual to go abroad for the purpose of enlisting in a foreign army; however, when someone has been recruited or hired in he United States, a violation may have occurred. The prosecution of persons who have violated 18 U.S.C. 958-960 is the responsibility of the Department of Justice.
Although a person's enlistment in the armed forces of a foreign country may not constitute a violation of U.S. law, it could subject him or her to Section 349(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act [8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(3)] which provides for loss of U.S. nationality if an American voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship enters or serves in foreign armed forces engaged in hostilities against the United States or serves in the armed forces of any foreign country as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer.
Loss of U.S. nationality was almost immediate consequences of foreign military service and the other acts listed in Section 349(a) until 1967 when the Supreme Court handed down its decision in Afroyim v. Rusk , 387 U.S. 253. In that decision, the court declared unconstitutional the provisions of Section 349(a) which provided for loss of nationality by voting in a foreign election. In so doing, the Supreme Court indicated foreign election. In so doing, the Supreme Court indicated that a U.S. citizen "has a constitutional right to remain a citizen... unless he voluntarily relinquishes that citizenship."
Further confirmation of the necessity to establish the citizen's intent to relinquish nationality before expatriation will result came in the opinion in Vance v. Terrazas , 444 U.S. 252 (1980). The Court stated that "expatriation depends on the will of the citizen rather than on the will of Congress and its assessment of his conduct." The Court also indicated that a person's intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship may be shown by statements or actions.
Military service in foreign countries usually does not cause loss of citizenship since an intention to relinquish citizenship normally is lacking. In adjudicating loss of nationality cases, the Department has established an administrative presumption that a person serving in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities against the United States does not have the intention to relinquish citizenship. Voluntary service in the armed forces of a state engaged in hostilities against the United States could be viewed as indicative of an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship.
Pursuant to Section 351(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, a person who served in foreign armed forces while under the age of eighteen is not considered subject to the provisions of Section 349(a)(3) if, within six months of attaining the age of eighteen, he or she asserts a claim to United States citizenship in the manner prescribed by the Secretary of State.
If you are
between 13 and 16.5 years old:
You need to apply for an exit permit if you intend to travel or
remain overseas for 3 months or longer. If you are remaining
overseas for 2 years or longer, your parents/guardians will also
need to furnish a bond, in the form of a Banker's Guarantee of
S$75,000 or 50% of the combined annual gross income of both parents
for the preceding year, whichever is higher.
If you are above 16.5 and have not enlisted for
NS:
You need to apply for an exit permit if you intend to travel or
remain overseas for 3 months or longer. Your parents/guardians will
need to furnish a bond, in the form of a Banker's Guarantee of
S$75,000 or 50% of the combined annual gross income of both parents
for the preceding year, whichever is higher.
Those who require exit permit of 2 years or longer will be required to furnish a bond. This bonding requirement is similar to the current arrangement where security in the form of Banker's Guarantee must be furnished. The amount of the security bond is S$75,000 or 50% of the combined gross annual income of both parents for the preceding year, whichever is higher. The monetary bond requirement for male citizens who accompany their parents on overseas employment may be waived and they be bonded by deed with two sureties.
Why must MINDEF impose exit controls on NS-liable
males?
Exit controls are necessary to ensure that NS-liable males who have
gone overseas to study or reside at a young age return to fulfil
their NS responsibilities.
Will young males aged 13 to 16.5 who fail to apply for an
exit permit be sentenced to imprisonment?
The penalty for exit permit offences of young males aged 13 to 16.5
will be a fine of up to $2,000, with no custodial sentences. They
will however be subjected to harsher penalties should they continue
to breach of the Enlistment Act after age 16.5.
Males above 16.5 years who travel and remain overseas without
applying for an exit permit would have committed an offence under
the Enlistment Act. They will be liable upon conviction to a fine
of up to $10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years
or both.
My understanding is that Singapore law says you cannot renounce citizenship before the age of 21, but that Singapore law can only apply within Singapore territory. It cannot dictate that you cannot renounce it outside Singapore.
You're in the US, so you can look up ex-Singaporean lawyer Gopalan Nair in CA. He is knowledgable and helpful on these matters.
Those who are liable to serve national service but refuse are charged under the Enlistment Act. If convicted, they face three years' imprisonment and a fine of S$10,000.
Controversy arose when the penalties were increased in January 2006 after Melvyn Tan, who was born in Singapore, received a fine for defaulting on his National Service obligations. Tan left for London to study music during his enlistment age and later acquired British nationality. In parliament, Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean provided some illustration of the punishments defaulters would face:
Each year, a small number of people are convicted for their failure to enlist or refusal to be conscripted. Most of them were Jehovah's Witnesses, who are usually court-martialled and sentenced to three years' imprisonment, but they are usually held in a low-security detention facility and separated from other conscription offenders. The government does not consider conscientious objection to be a legal reason for refusal to serve NS.
Originally posted by M the name:@ntoh,
You think just because we are singaporean you think we have "special" treatment in NS? Go and ask your singaporean friends especially those in combat side whether they go through BMT, have to walk 8km route march with "Ali Baba" bag, drink water parade with a bottle of water, and if during late night, got changing parade to dress in full battle order etc. Surprisely it is these "hardship" that bound us together and make many new friends.
And in Singapore, unless your batch have some "white horses" 's sons (you can also check out what this term mean) when you served your term, chance are your training might not be so tough after all. And their son might also be mixed blood with one parent being an foreigner like you. You are not the only one if you know what I mean.
its a waste of time !i know if the going gets tougheveryone runs off leaving the battle to be fought and won to the end by a few smart and brave people!generals may win campaigns but wars are won by real people who know what they are doing.
Originally posted by ntoh:Born in sg, left very early, not sure how old but before the age of 1. I currently live in America, about 16.5 years old and have dual citizenship, the last time I renewed my singapore passport was at the age of 12 (dumb mistake). I have not received any notice by the CMPB to register or anything like that. I'm scared to call the ns call center just in case I'm not in the system and when I call them they put me back in or something.
Also, if I do end up going to ns, how will I fit in seeing as I don't speak chinese and have not been raised in the sg environment. Will I get treated differently by the captains or have to do extra work etc.?
dont u need to like go get a job and pay for your bills in the usa or something?have u tried getting a job in silicon valley?they pay well!
dont worry about spore ns!try geting your life in order in the usa as you are already in the usa all your life??!!!!
even if u do come back to singapore to do ns....you need to rent an apartment in town as most camps do not provide accomodations like they used to.and food is not provided mostly while you are out of camp on weekdays!!and mostly asian army food is kind of horrible tasting at times especially when they mass produce em from what looks like leftoversfrom a flea market !!its based on luck with a bunk and food.u willing to pay $400 /mth for rental while doing full time ns?the ns pay would be around $280/mth or so.
and when u finish your ns.your pay would not be close to what a macdonalds worker gets in the usa even if you worked as an engineer in singapore with decades of experience.the pay of $1million/year only applies to the selected few such as the 200 singaporean politicians or other business owners!so if u are not a singaporean politician with the PAP and dont own a business raking in millions a year.......why bother with singapore in the first place?