who created God
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Originally posted by Miyuki miingguii:
Broinchrist. I urge u to see a psychiatrist and get diagnosed for schizophrenia before it's too late. Because you'll get a one way free ticket to IMH.
Can you recommend the one you are currently seeing?
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jacky i tink u can save ur breath.... BIC is a believer and you are not... the way you both see things are gonna be too far apart.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
jacky i tink u can save ur breath.... BIC is a believer and you are not... the way you both see things are gonna be too far apart.
That's an excellent observation you just made!
It all boils down to a question of worldview, which everyone has, a set of belief system with which we view the world and make sense of things. Do you now finally get the whole point I have been trying to make all this while?
The atheist's worldview is closely tied to naturalism. This worldview colors everything he sees. No supernatural explanation or causation is allowed into his way of explaining any phenomenon he encounters. It can and must only be explained by or away in naturalistic ways. If there's no naturalistic explanation now, one will come up later eventually, by faith it will come. Even if it is ridiculous the naturalistic explanation must be maintained.
The theist's worldview is not restricted to our five senses. Effects can have both natural or supernatural causes. Theism recognises that natural causes are incapable of doing certain things, and that certain effects are best explained by intelligence, even a supernatural one.
It all boils down to which worldview is the best worldview to view the world with. And when you do take the time to seriously and critically compare the ability of the two worldviews of atheism and theism to explain and account for the questions of utmost significance you will realise that theism wins handsdown.
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Originally posted by Miyuki miingguii:
Broinchrist. I urge u to see a psychiatrist and get diagnosed for schizophrenia before it's too late. Because you'll get a one way free ticket to IMH.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
jacky i tink u can save ur breath.... BIC is a believer and you are not... the way you both see things are gonna be too far apart.
the thing is their worldview is really delusional. some religion are deluded and at the same time militant, scary for the rest of the people
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GOD.........isn't like what most of us think or thought as some super human being that sees us on earth like HIS "children". Rather is a collective of motion, evolution and emotion of the intangible of the Brain of the mankind. You see Him like some other people have told you and you see Him like those scriptures that have spoken about HIM. Neither can a human able to see GOD or HIS forms the way we have described it in the holy scriptures. Who created GOD......is that thought able to solve this problem about GOD existence in our lives. I can only see HIM as One and that One is in one essence of HIS greatness and His Creation in the entire universe. His "form" is in the Universe and could only be seen as in all the millions and millions of galaxies and in the billions and billions of planets within the galaxies. How many of us could really define GOD because His attributes are infinite and so it is so without ending.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
the thing is their worldview is really delusional. some religion are deluded and at the same time militant, scary for the rest of the people
And why is yours not delusional but mine is? Again making dogmatic question-begging assertions without any arguments.
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Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:
GOD…......isn’t like what most of us think or thought as some super human being that sees us on earth like HIS “children”. Rather is a collective of motion, evolution and emotion of the intangible of the Brain of the mankind. You see Him like some other people have told you and you see Him like those scriptures that have spoken about HIM. Neither can a human able to see GOD or HIS forms the way we have described it in the holy scriptures. Who created GOD…...is that thought able to solve this problem about GOD existence in our lives. I can only see HIM as One and that One is in one essence of HIS greatness and His Creation in the entire universe. His “form” is in the Universe and could only be seen as in all the millions and millions of galaxies and in the billions and billions of planets within the galaxies. How many of us could really define GOD because His attributes are infinite and so it is so without ending.
Words may fail to fully define or describe the infinite God, but they are adequate so long as we remember that however we try to speak of God it will always fall short because we are talking about the infinite God. The Bible teaches that the invisible things of God are seen in the visible things that are made. The created order points and speaks about God and can tell us some things about God.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
And why is yours not delusional but mine is? Again making dogmatic question-begging assertions without any arguments.
at least I dun think the world was created in 6 days
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since you claimed god is divine, then why use him/he when god is not in human form.
does god has a gender? no male nor female right, since god is not human.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
jacky i tink u can save ur breath.... BIC is a believer and you are not... the way you both see things are gonna be too far apart.
so you think whose world view is scarier?I go by science and facts and he go by the beliefs from 2000 years ago.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Words may fail to fully define or describe the infinite God, but they are adequate so long as we remember that however we try to speak of God it will always fall short because we are talking about the infinite God. The Bible teaches that the invisible things of God are seen in the visible things that are made. The created order points and speaks about God and can tell us some things about God.
Yes, that is true. However, without the holy scriptures of the world that existed throughout the ages, we humans could never envisage the portion of GOD and His Attributes. Now, let say we could define HIM in one word or in one holy scriptures, that means GOD is finite and HE is like most living things.....Life and Death I mean. Now, without the holy scriptures of the world there could never be a Religion for Mankind to follow the good attributes of GOOD GOD. I can understand people would like to see HIM, meet HIM and talk to HIM but there is no way you could see, meet and speak to HIM accept in prayers. Like a way of messaging HIM via a medium of a human beings or through your own medium that is your mind itself. How many holy scriptures in the world are there? Many but none of them could complete the knowledge of HIM in one holy scripture. HE is infinite and therefore eventhough we have millions and millions, billions and billions, trillions and trillions of holy scriptures....the list goes on.......we cannot concluded GOD and HIS Attributes within those myriad of holy scriptures that we have on earth now. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Question begging epithet again which reflects a close-minded militant village atheist.
to belief in a book that said god created earth in 6 days written 2,000 years ago, when science is non-existent in that period. cant even get the shape of the earth correct -
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
at least I dun think the world was created in 6 daysMy belief in all powerful God who created the world in 6 days is much more logical and sensible than your belief that the universe made itself from nothing. And your adding billions of years is merely trying to make the impossible look possible but it is certainly a delusion. Chance + Time != Universe because chance is not a causal thing. It is not even a thing. So when you really think about it, it is the atheist who believes in magic and fairy tales.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
to belief in a book that said god created earth in 6 days written 2,000 years ago, when science is non-existent in that period. cant even get the shape of the earth correctYou are confused between history and science. When something happened is a matter of history, not science. As to the shape of the earth, you can't even get the Bible right. The Bible talks about the circle of the earth. There you go. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
My belief in all powerful God who created the world in 6 days is much more logical and sensible than your belief that the universe made itself from nothing. And your adding billions of years is merely trying to make the impossible look possible but it is certainly a delusion. Chance + Time != Universe because chance is not a causal thing. It is not even a thing. So when you really think about it, it is the atheist who believes in magic and fairy tales.
Jacky Woo, sorry man there is not such thing that we are created by chance and please I beg you......listen to BrolnChrist. We aren't here to proof who is wrong and who is right....let us be here to see more things that we can never imagine and at least speak with respect to the author of this topic. Thank you. -
impossible to ask me to believe in something that does not exists and written by ignorant and uneducated folks from 2000 years ago.
I have better things to do
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
That's an excellent observation you just made!
It all boils down to a question of worldview, which everyone has, a set of belief system with which we view the world and make sense of things. Do you now finally get the whole point I have been trying to make all this while?
The atheist's worldview is closely tied to naturalism. This worldview colors everything he sees. No supernatural explanation or causation is allowed into his way of explaining any phenomenon he encounters. It can and must only be explained by or away in naturalistic ways. If there's no naturalistic explanation now, one will come up later eventually, by faith it will come. Even if it is ridiculous the naturalistic explanation must be maintained.
The theist's worldview is not restricted to our five senses. Effects can have both natural or supernatural causes. Theism recognises that natural causes are incapable of doing certain things, and that certain effects are best explained by intelligence, even a supernatural one.
It all boils down to which worldview is the best worldview to view the world with. And when you do take the time to seriously and critically compare the ability of the two worldviews of atheism and theism to explain and account for the questions of utmost significance you will realise that theism wins handsdown.
i dont believe in a best worldview.... i only believe it subjectively... there's no best worldview across board for everyone imo... dont word bash me for that for thats what i believe and im entitled to my own belief as much as anyone else here. The way your post is constructed is as though the naturalistic view is ridiculous, but thats to u, a theist.But for jacky, someone who doesn't believe, yours is just also equally ridiculous. Much as been exchanged and said and much logical sense has been appealed across both sides which was conveniently dismissed by both ends.
This is why i asked jacky to stop wasting his breath for he would not subject to your belief and you would too not subject to his. In which how the engages went seemed more like name calling and seemed more like trying to force belief into each other.
Lastly, i feel that you've been making alot of assumptions about the theist war over atheist war. Lemme reiterate that whatever prove you have raised, it could be biased and it is not absolute in proving god's existence. The only time when theism wins hands down, is when u bring god upon everyone for them to see... but that has apparently yet to happen, no prove no evidence. The same old question stands... much as atheist cant disprove the existence of god, you cant prove yours. Dont be too quick to say you are winning hands down. It shows nothing objective, other than a desire to win.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
since you claimed god is divine, then why use him/he when god is not in human form.
does god has a gender? no male nor female right, since god is not human.
The Bible teaches that God is Spirit and also a Person so a personal pronoun is used. The Bible also teaches that both male and female were created in the image of God. Your Bible knowledge is deficient because you are ignorant of verses in the Bible that speaks of God in a maternal way. A couple of examples will suffice to plug the gaps of ignorance you show.
“How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!” (Matthew 23:37)
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Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:
Yes, that is true. However, without the holy scriptures of the world that existed throughout the ages, we humans could never envisage the portion of GOD and His Attributes. Now, let say we could define HIM in one word or in one holy scriptures, that means GOD is finite and HE is like most living things.....Life and Death I mean. Now, without the holy scriptures of the world there could never be a Religion for Mankind to follow the good attributes of GOOD GOD. I can understand people would like to see HIM, meet HIM and talk to HIM but there is no way you could see, meet and speak to HIM accept in prayers. Like a way of messaging HIM via a medium of a human beings or through your own medium that is your mind itself. How many holy scriptures in the world are there? Many but none of them could complete the knowledge of HIM in one holy scripture. HE is infinite and therefore eventhough we have millions and millions, billions and billions, trillions and trillions of holy scriptures....the list goes on.......we cannot concluded GOD and HIS Attributes within those myriad of holy scriptures that we have on earth now.The Bible speaks of General Revelation and the Bible itself is Special Revelation. Through the thing that are made we can know some things about God that are true.
We can know God TRULY without knowing God FULLY. As such the Scriptures are SUFFICIENT for us to know Him. The Scriptures tells us what we NEED to know in order to be right with Him. And when the perfect comes we will know God in a more excellent way.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
impossible to ask me to believe in something that does not exists and written by ignorant and uneducated folks from 2000 years ago.
I have better things to do
Yes, I understand you perfectly clear and I know this will goes on forever should we debate on this.....thanks man. Be here with good thoughts and be brave in what you believed. -
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
impossible to ask me to believe in something that does not exists and written by ignorant and uneducated folks from 2000 years ago.
I have better things to do
Strawman argument. I am not asking you to believe in something that does not exist.You have better things to do? An atheist's world is inherently meaningless. There is no ultimate purpose and meaning to whatever you do, if you are a consistent and true atheist.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Strawman argument. I am not asking you to believe in something that does not exist.You have better things to do? An atheist's world is inherently meaningless. There is no ultimate purpose and meaning to whatever you do, if you are a consistent and true atheist.
BrolnChrist, please don't do this.....excellence in persuing something that you believe has to be with a good sense of honesty and humble conscience.....right. Take as a way to know the truth....via the intangible thoughts of the humans pysche. -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
i dont believe in a best worldview.... i only believe it subjectively... there's no best worldview across board for everyone imo... dont word bash me for that for thats what i believe and im entitled to my own belief as much as anyone else here. The way your post is constructed is as though the naturalistic view is ridiculous, but thats to u, a theist.But for jacky, someone who doesn't believe, yours is just also equally ridiculous. Much as been exchanged and said and much logical sense has been appealed across both sides which was conveniently dismissed by both ends.
This is why i asked jacky to stop wasting his breath for he would not subject to your belief and you would too not subject to his. In which how the engages went seemed more like name calling and seemed more like trying to force belief into each other.
Lastly, i feel that you've been making alot of assumptions about the theist war over atheist war. Lemme reiterate that whatever prove you have raised, it could be biased and it is not absolute in proving god's existence. The only time when theism wins hands down, is when u bring god upon everyone for them to see... but that has apparently yet to happen, no prove no evidence. The same old question stands... much as atheist cant disprove the existence of god, you cant prove yours. Dont be too quick to say you are winning hands down. It shows nothing objective, other than a desire to win.
The best worldview is that which adequately accounts for what needs to be accounted for. You can make up a list and check it off if you are serious about it. That's what I mean by theism winning atheism handsdown. Yes, assumptions will be made, and this happens on both sides of the debates. But there are assumptions and there are assumptions. You will have to judge for yourself which assumptions are reasonable and which are not. I can only show you.
You don't think naturalism is ridiculous because you probably did not give much thought to it. Tell me, how does life comes from nonlife? How can the universe makes itself? How can a rock think? But that is essentially what atheism entails, that nonliving matter over time can change into living things with self-consciousness and can engage in reflection and think about life!
I can defend theism with logic and reason, and I have shown it in my postings. What has Jacky done exept to pour scorn and ridicule on my beliefs? He just takes the attack mode but never made a case for atheism. You would be hardpressed to find me a cogent argument that Jacky has made for his beliefs. All he has are question-begging slogans about God being like Superman in DC comics.