Chinese words in daily life
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
That is very well explained.
- I don't even know what's 趨炎附勢 until you explained so, only know the 見風使舵
- Similarly I often heard of 金�玉葉 but dunno the meaning is like that oni until now. In the past I used to hear others often but dunno oso, eg: 峰回路轉, �號入座 etc then oni knew it after someone told me
- 貼切 i know
- 爆料 i know
- 空�無憑 i know
- I don't know what's 覬覦 oni until now
Yeh it's not easy, there are thousands of chinese idioms and we would be genuises to know all lol.
觊觎 (ji yu4) can actually mean "beeo"...you know like beeo cha bor that kind? lol For eg: 这女å©å�我已ç»�觊觎很久了。
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
- 笑��刀 i know
- I dunno 投石�路 and I think I never have thought of this proverb again until u mention it again; i cannot say i never see b4, i could haf just seen such an entry in the dictionary b4, but don't bother; therefore i dunno the meaning oni until now
- 潛在(的天分) i know
- 胸懷大志 i know
- ��凡響 i know the meaning, but dun really know how to use in context
- 喪家之犬, i had got the wrong meaning oni until now u say it's homeless person, I used to misinterpret 喪家(之)犬 as 敗家å� lar
- 淘氣, that one i hear, but totally out of my scope for me to use it naturally; haven't naturalised yet
- 疑惑, this one i got comment, the meaning is there but the context may not be, i cannot use the term 疑惑心, to me it sounds very very strange; rather i can only use eg. XX�這件事件感到極度的疑惑 ; but rather "疑心" can match "suspicion"
I don't think anyone will fault anyone for using 疑惑心。The chinese language is ever adaptable.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
耀æ¦æ‰¬å¨� = heard on TV, never seen on texts, i guess meaning is "show off talents" with a positive tinge in meaning (褒義詞), izzit ?
�胸顿足 = hit chest, stomp feet (like Tin Pei Ling) = meaning 無�奈何 izzit ?
出耳å��耳 ≠ 出爾å��爾 = 食言而肥
拜他所� = due to him/her (in negative tinge in meaning 貶義詞)
�头土脸 = ashy head, soily face = utterly disappointed
装疯�傻 = pretend to be unaware of real situation, like cantonese �諦 (tsa tai), hokkien �佋 (ke siau)
处心积虑 = purposefully plan with one's all-out ability to act on something that is unknown to others (in negative tinge in meaning 貶義詞)
度é‡�ç‹å°� = small 度é‡�, dunno how to explain 度é‡�, perhaps
头�脑胀 = head giddy, brain bloated = bothered by something, cannot think properly
邀功 = dunno and never hear / see b4
Wah tks man....you translated everything. The last one: 邀功 means to claim credit. For eg: ç‰æˆ‘办好事情å†�去跟è€�æ�¿é‚€åŠŸã€‚
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
ok, if you wan to know henghwa again den lemme know. i can explain and show it's relationship between putien and xianyou, and explain and show the henghua cluster is different from it's southern (the hokkien) and northern (the hockchew) neighbours, and their historical relation and exact points of language contacts that result in modern henghua. The henghwa in singapore is buey-zhun already, mixed with hokkien rojak, when you mentioned your in-laws mix with hokkien terms, they could be mixing hokkien terms too. Because the deep-level relationship between the henghwa language and the hokkien language is not obvious one; one has to go into deep-level phonology to unearth their relationship, so anything superficial which they seem alike, is attributed to borrowing from hokkien
Now that you have pointed out "warna" means "the local peoples / the coloured peoples", I have realized that "warna" itself is already a corruption of the original hokkien word for "people who is not like me" = 番仔 (huan-na) like what we call in Singapore (Chinese to refer to "Malays"), Malaysia (Chinese to refer to "Malays"), Taiwan (Chinese to refer to "Indigenous Aborigines") and China (Chinese to refer to "foreigners"). Type hoana in http://sealang.net/indonesia/lwim/ gives you the gloss:
hoana
1 non-Chinese people (specifically those indigenous to the Nanyang)
VARIATION: hwana
ETYMOLOGY: Amoy 番仔 hoan á Douglas1899:143b
the Indonesians are really traditional when they say "kiong hi" leh, but come to think of it, the Muslim hoanas would not want to shake hands with non-Muslim tenglang right?
Wah the 番仔 hoan á is spot on. Just checked with my wife's grandma. Somehow, it got adapted to become "warna". The muslims, they do shake hands with us. Why not? It's still pretty liberal here as compared to the middle east.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
can you type out the words that have fully nativized (those that she did not realise were from chinese) in her bahasa leh? this goes to show that, some chinese loanwords in bahasa has reached a stage whereby the speakers do not regard them as foreign loanwords anymore (like Japanese, Koreans & Vietnamese), such that in the future, any possible language policy that results in language cleansing (like in North Korean policy of purging Sino-Korean vocab is in effect), these stratum of vocabulary will stay relatively stable
Hmm....I can name a few. In fact, my wife didn't even know so many of the bahasa words were hokkien until I met her.
Eg:
cat - 漆 (paint)
kemocing - feather duster
leci - lychee
pangsit - 水饺
kahwin - 结婚
tongkat - �干
warna - The Indo locals
In fact, may of their dishes start with the words "ca"...you know like ca kangkung, ca bihun....which means "fried" in hokkien and my wife and bro-in-law do not even know it. Words like "swike" for frogs and "tauge" for bean sprouts etc.
I didn't know kelenteng (temple) is actually hokkien. And they say "manteng" for weddings.
And most Chinese in java use a lot of javanese words in their language....so I think they've also lost track of what's hokkien and what's not. My wife's cousin is getting married tomorrow and he's never had a chinese name until he did the invitation card! Kind of sad but what to do......
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Oh and those readups which you gave me....
It was kind of embarassing reading that article about chinglish.....man....we are really poor! We can't string a proper sentence in chinese at all lol!! And the breakdown of the different locations in Indo regarding their dialects and habits etc....I'd think it's quite accurate, well at least regarding jakarta, surabaya and solo. The writer must have really done intensive research.
Hope one day can visit places like bangansiapipi to see how well they speak their hokkien.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Yeh it's not easy, there are thousands of chinese idioms and we would be genuises to know all lol.
觊觎 (ji yu4) can actually mean "beeo"...you know like beeo cha bor that kind? lol For eg: 这女å©å�我已ç»�觊觎很久了。
wat? 覬覦 so high class vocab can = beeo ah? wa today i haf learnt realli cool vocab leh
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I don't think anyone will fault anyone for using 疑惑心。The chinese language is ever adaptable.
erm erm, ok
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Wah tks man....you translated everything. The last one: 邀功 means to claim credit. For eg: ç‰æˆ‘办好事情å†�去跟è€�æ�¿é‚€åŠŸã€‚
eh i dun tink all correct leh, eg. i dunno how to explain 度�
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Yeh it's not easy, there are thousands of chinese idioms and we would be genuises to know all lol.
觊觎 (ji yu4) can actually mean "beeo"...you know like beeo cha bor that kind? lol For eg: 这女å©å�我已ç»�觊觎很久了。
I have seen your strength in lexicology and paremiology.
Nah, I think that this is useful to you in your endeavour and I have uploaded it for you:
� Chapter Six - Beyond The Basics 】
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BLW1X925
extracted from <The Chinese Language, Daniel Kane>:
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Wah the 番仔 hoan á is spot on. Just checked with my wife's grandma. Somehow, it got adapted to become "warna". The muslims, they do shake hands with us. Why not? It's still pretty liberal here as compared to the middle east.
wow ! need to go to wife's grandma then know! dat means your wife mother or father already dunno liao ah
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Hmm....I can name a few. In fact, my wife didn't even know so many of the bahasa words were hokkien until I met her.
Eg:
cat - 漆 (paint)
kemocing - feather duster
leci - lychee
pangsit - 水饺
kahwin - 结婚
tongkat - �干
warna - The Indo locals
In fact, may of their dishes start with the words "ca"...you know like ca kangkung, ca bihun....which means "fried" in hokkien and my wife and bro-in-law do not even know it. Words like "swike" for frogs and "tauge" for bean sprouts etc.
I didn't know kelenteng (temple) is actually hokkien. And they say "manteng" for weddings.
And most Chinese in java use a lot of javanese words in their language....so I think they've also lost track of what's hokkien and what's not. My wife's cousin is getting married tomorrow and he's never had a chinese name until he did the invitation card! Kind of sad but what to do......
eh eh, kahwin and tongkat are real bahasa words, which were borrowed into hokkien and subsequently written as 交姻 and �葛。
ya, ca is ç‚’ ma, stir-fry
then wat is "manteng" ? loanword or bahasa word? if loanword, u guess wat characters?
Yep, the last paragraph is true, I met before Indonesian Chinese who is called just "Vivi" (even without surnames), "Fenny" , no chinese names, later they resurrect their Chinese names after they came to Singapore
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I scanned some auspicious word list (Cantonese) for you:
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Oh and those readups which you gave me....
It was kind of embarassing reading that article about chinglish.....man....we are really poor! We can't string a proper sentence in chinese at all lol!! And the breakdown of the different locations in Indo regarding their dialects and habits etc....I'd think it's quite accurate, well at least regarding jakarta, surabaya and solo. The writer must have really done intensive research.
Hope one day can visit places like bangansiapipi to see how well they speak their hokkien.
The main gist of the Chinglish article, talks about the non-Northern traits of Singapore Mandarin Chinese as opposed to the more Northerly traits of Mainland China Mandarin Chinese, being 1) Topicalization 2) Topicalization markers 3) the VO structure 4) Emphasis of subject instead of topic
It is closely linked to the paper "Chinese" which I just posted for your reference to this article:
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Oh and those readups which you gave me....
It was kind of embarassing reading that article about chinglish.....man....we are really poor! We can't string a proper sentence in chinese at all lol!! And the breakdown of the different locations in Indo regarding their dialects and habits etc....I'd think it's quite accurate, well at least regarding jakarta, surabaya and solo. The writer must have really done intensive research.
Hope one day can visit places like bangansiapipi to see how well they speak their hokkien.
The other 2 articles, no comment ?
I got some observations.
I took ã€�漢語方言å°�å�°å°¼åŸŽå¸‚ä¸æ–‡å��的影響】 (named as article "A") andã€�å�°å°¼è�¯äººçš„語言狀æ³�】 (named as article "B") and did a comparison. Did you notice in article "A" where is shows Yogyakarta is named after Cantonese naming conventions, meaning most of the first inhabitants in Yogyakarta were the Cantonese, but in article "B", Yogyakarta is said to be populated mainly by the Fujian (Hokkien) and Fuqing (Hockchia) people, so now, a) are the Cantonese reduced to a minority after the Hokkiens and Hockchias overwhelmed them, or b) they left Yogyakarta totally without a trace after they have founded the city ?
And,
In article "B", on page 162, it mentioned that in 1930, the Hakkas in the Outer provinces were around 125,000, and the Hakkas in Java (and Madura) were around 75,000.
This matches the census done by Volkstelling, 1930:104, Table 21, which showed that in 1930, the Hakkas in the Outer provinces were 125,548, and the Hakkas in Java (and Madura) were 75,188.
Apparently, the data is gathered from the Volkstelling census.
Now, comes the next line, it mentioned that in 1930, the Hakkas in è¥¿åŠ è£�曼丹 were around 38,000.
In the census done by Volkstelling,1930:104, Table 21, it also showed that in 1930, the Hakkas in Borneo (which is = è¥¿åŠ è£�曼丹) were 39,125.
Apprently, this piece of data should be gathered from the Volkstelling census too.
But the last sentence, “ä½”è�¯äººç¸½äººå�£66,000人的57%”。There is no where in the Volkstelling census that I can find a figure near to 66,000, as the Volkstelling census showed that the total number of people in Borneo then was 91,320. If going by the Volkstelling census, the number of Hakkas on Borneo in 1930 should have been 43%.
This led me think differently with respect to the opinion in the last second section "五�閩�語與�尼語的互動" that the Hakkas are supposedly more numerous than the Hokkiens but contributed negligible loanwords into Bahasa. In the first place, research has shown the earlier and the longer the immigrants are, the loanwords would have reached the recipient language first. It would have much less to do with a subsequent bigger but later wave of immigration from a new dialect group.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
wat? 覬覦 so high class vocab can = beeo ah? wa today i haf learnt realli cool vocab leh
haha chances are if one says 觊觎，nobody understands! Well, at least we know the word for it.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
wow ! need to go to wife's grandma then know! dat means your wife mother or father already dunno liao ah
Yeh, mum in law stopped learning mandarin when she was very young. Dad in law's mandarin is non existent either but he often says "好�" during meals haha.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
eh eh, kahwin and tongkat are real bahasa words, which were borrowed into hokkien and subsequently written as 交姻 and �葛。
ya, ca is ç‚’ ma, stir-fry
then wat is "manteng" ? loanword or bahasa word? if loanword, u guess wat characters?
Yep, the last paragraph is true, I met before Indonesian Chinese who is called just "Vivi" (even without surnames), "Fenny" , no chinese names, later they resurrect their Chinese names after they came to Singapore
Kahwin is from 结婚？No? Tongkat is bahasa? Haha confused liao.
Not sure about manteng....could be manten too.....oh just remembered another word....potehi (figurine puppets show). I just watched one not too long ago in the local temple. And the temple has quite a bit of history. There's this plaque which was endorsed by a Qing dynasty official and shipped over. Then there are tiger footprints in the temple which are still around even today. Okok, before i drift into no man's land...will stop here lol.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
I scanned some auspicious word list (Cantonese) for you:
Thanks dude...interesting... but can we take their analysis for it?
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
The main gist of the Chinglish article, talks about the non-Northern traits of Singapore Mandarin Chinese as opposed to the more Northerly traits of Mainland China Mandarin Chinese, being 1) Topicalization 2) Topicalization markers 3) the VO structure 4) Emphasis of subject instead of topic
It is closely linked to the paper "Chinese" which I just posted for your reference to this article:
Saw that.....but too technical for me liao lol. Doubt the ordinary joe would understand too......
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
eh i dun tink all correct leh, eg. i dunno how to explain 度�
Magnanimity?
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
The other 2 articles, no comment ?
I got some observations.
I took ã€�漢語方言å°�å�°å°¼åŸŽå¸‚ä¸æ–‡å��的影響】 (named as article "A") andã€�å�°å°¼è�¯äººçš„語言狀æ³�】 (named as article "B") and did a comparison. Did you notice in article "A" where is shows Yogyakarta is named after Cantonese naming conventions, meaning most of the first inhabitants in Yogyakarta were the Cantonese, but in article "B", Yogyakarta is said to be populated mainly by the Fujian (Hokkien) and Fuqing (Hockchia) people, so now, a) are the Cantonese reduced to a minority after the Hokkiens and Hockchias overwhelmed them, or b) they left Yogyakarta totally without a trace after they have founded the city ?
And,
In article "B", on page 162, it mentioned that in 1930, the Hakkas in the Outer provinces were around 125,000, and the Hakkas in Java (and Madura) were around 75,000.
This matches the census done by Volkstelling, 1930:104, Table 21, which showed that in 1930, the Hakkas in the Outer provinces were 125,548, and the Hakkas in Java (and Madura) were 75,188.
Apparently, the data is gathered from the Volkstelling census.
Now, comes the next line, it mentioned that in 1930, the Hakkas in è¥¿åŠ è£�曼丹 were around 38,000.
In the census done by Volkstelling,1930:104, Table 21, it also showed that in 1930, the Hakkas in Borneo (which is = è¥¿åŠ è£�曼丹) were 39,125.
Apprently, this piece of data should be gathered from the Volkstelling census too.
But the last sentence, “ä½”è�¯äººç¸½äººå�£66,000人的57%”。There is no where in the Volkstelling census that I can find a figure near to 66,000, as the Volkstelling census showed that the total number of people in Borneo then was 91,320. If going by the Volkstelling census, the number of Hakkas on Borneo in 1930 should have been 43%.
This led me think differently with respect to the opinion in the last second section "五�閩�語與�尼語的互動" that the Hakkas are supposedly more numerous than the Hokkiens but contributed negligible loanwords into Bahasa. In the first place, research has shown the earlier and the longer the immigrants are, the loanwords would have reached the recipient language first. It would have much less to do with a subsequent bigger but later wave of immigration from a new dialect group.
The yogya theory I can't be sure.....but 日� really does sound like the cantonese version of yogya. Cantonese in central java is new to me...I thought this place is a hokkien dominated area. It still baffles me why surabaya is called 泗水，jakarta 夜晨 (i'm not sure but they say "ye chen"), medan 眉� （not sure too but I hear it as "mei lan") etc etc. Anyway...
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
I have seen your strength in lexicology and paremiology.
Nah, I think that this is useful to you in your endeavour and I have uploaded it for you:
� Chapter Six - Beyond The Basics 】
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BLW1X925
extracted from <The Chinese Language, Daniel Kane>:
ok bro, I read thru tml.....get back to u again.
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Taken from last night's 爱：
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尘年往事
�定
包容
水涨船高
呼风唤雨,�震八方
原地è¸�æ¥
矜�
按奈��
�作
ä¸�入虎穴,焉得虎å�
过河拆桥
强人所难
大�大德
唯�天下�乱
å�虚乌有
包厢