4th local university
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It is good news to know that there is going to be a fourth university in Singapore. It will not be any good if it follows the steps of the NUS and NTU.
So far the 2 local public universities have a quite number of undergraduates & graduates including foreigners. In order not to over populate these 2 universities, another public university, SMU had been form 2 years ago. More Singaporeans have more opportunities to pursue a degree. Its idea of accepting applicants who achieve the minimum SAT scores regardless of local A-levels/diploma holders or foreigners, is a very good method which uses in foreign universities in the States, Australia, UK, etc. This will help to improve the university & the republic standard other than grooming more local talents. Unlike NTU and NUS, diploma holders from local polytechnics have a higher chances of getting a degree in an public university as they sit for the same SAT papers although the intake of diploma holders are not that high. Too bad for those who are from IT, design & engineering faculties, there are only business management, accounting & commerce program in this 3rd public university.
As for the other 2 universities, their main purpose is to get as many A-level holders as possible to get a degree. The chances for local diploma holders to get a place in certain programs are seriously very dim especially Temasek and Nanyang Polytechnics graduates. These 2 polytechnics are not like the other 2 polytechnics, Singapore and Nee Ang Polytechnics, which they have stronger ties with the 2 universities. Some may wonder if they were infiltrated just like Methodist Girls Secondary School to Anglo Chinese Junior Collage.
Every year, around 500 graduates each from SP and NP entered NTU or NUS comparing to less than 40 graduates from TP and NYP who are lucky and good enough to get a spot there. The different between these 2 sums is relatively big. Many think that TP and NYP are new and they are not strongly recognized or the students are not bright enough. Even though the 2 local universities accept higher percentage of SP and NP graduates, many still cannot make it even they have tried so hard in their diploma studies. All the four polytechnics students are told that top 10% of each faculty including those who receive Certificates Of Merit (COM), will stand a chance in NTU and NUS. In the end only those from SP and NP get the places. Even a COM holder fm NYP is rejected.
Most of the time, foreign students, esp. Malaysians and those who get a place in JC, topped their respective faculty. Seldom students who cannot get into JC are COM holders. Time flies, teenagers nowadays are not happy with a diploma. They believe having a degree will have better future with more job opportunities. They could not get into JC because of not that smart and end up in polytechnics just the same as demoted to a normal stream in secondary or ITE after N/O levels. After working so hard, they still fail to get to the top 10% and most of them will stop their education. For those who can study in JC are brighter & more talent but choose to study in polytechnic, either SP or NP as they know these 2 polytechnics stand higher chances of getting to NTU/NUS. That's why they are the ones who usually get to the top and easily enter the local universities. Foreigners are usually talents because polytechnics will only accept the best, same goes to the universities. How does a person who cannot even study in JC beat foreign talents?
All the JC, NTU and NUS always get support from the government. Every week in the newspapers and on television, you can see/hear praises and good comments from ministers, directors from both government and private sectors. Once in the full moon, you can hear about any polytechnics through any kind of media. JC students enjoy so much good stuff including funds, privileges, discounts, scholarships, etc. Although a polytechnic student who is around the same age as them are treated like a fully matured university undergraduate but not as good as those undergraduates. For example, a polytechnic student who is 17 years old uses an adult Transit link farecard (blue) but as for a JC year 1 student, he uses a student farecard (pink). Why does it so? Aren't they both the same age and are students? Another question, why does NTU and NUS strongly accept a A-level holder over a diploma holder? Why do so many scholarships given out to A-level holders and not diploma holders? Isn't diploma a better and higher qualification?
Since NTU and NUS generally accept A-level holders, diploma holders have no other choices but to start work after graduating from polytechnics. The purpose is to get a saving to study overseas. Of cause people think that overseas degrees are better than local universities after all NTU and NUS are not as good as what u have read in the papers but can you buy yourself a ticket to a foreign land. If one has money, he/she will pursue a degree overseas immediately but too bad most of us are not rich. Who still have the money for further studies after paying about $1800 to the polytechnics annually? For an A-level holder, their school fees are so low yet enjoyed so much benefits. More than 85% will secured a place in NTU or NUS which they enjoyed student grant from the government. No need to be rich to get a degree, only have to study JC. Their only worry is to get the degree program they wanted. Even a all C graded A-level holder will stand higher chances of ensuring a place in NTU or NUS than a top 10% diploma holder from local Poly. You will be 'trap' in polytechnics if you are neither rich nor super smart. Therefore, a public university here which accept diploma holders will be a great relieve.
Why studying in polytechnic is a bad choice? The fees are high, around $900 for a semester and have to complete a total of 6 semesters to complete a diploma. It is equivalent to studying there for 4 years where most people mistaken as 3 because it started in June. As a polytechnic student, u will not be treated as a student outside and therefore no student price nor discount for u. Upon graduated, u are not likely to study in local universities as they are only for A-level and a few good diploma holders. After working for a few years, u will not think of getting a degree anymore because u has aged. After completing payless NS, u will be 23 the minimum. To get enough saving to study for a full time or part time degree with a diploma salary, it takes about 5 years or so. At around the age of 28, I rather use this amount of money on other things such as marriage, open a business shop or save for a few more years to get a car if possible. Also u will feel uneasy studying with a bunch of young A-level holders in the university. Who will cares to help this group of diploma holders who wish to get a higher education before getting a permanent well pay job? Must it be always a must to work for a study saving until a certain age after polytechnic like what I say previously? Why this group of people cannot live like those A-level holders who can study in university at such young age and get such a high salary job?
In JC, people will think highly and will be treated and supported very well by teachers, friends, government and companies. You can read about praises on them about how well they do in their studies, co-curricular activities and sports. Many scholarships have been given to them each year. They can even be seen appearing on TVs and newspaper if you get PSC awards. Rarely such things will fall onto a local polytechnic student. If you are neither rich nor smart, polytechnic is definite not a place for you. I rather repeat a year in secondary to retake O-levels until JC accepts. You will serve NS a year earlier and more confident of studying in universities than Poly graduates. You save time and lots of money. So think thrice before choosing to study in polytechnics. Advice to all secondary students, better study hard to get into JC. If you think people will treat you well after coming out for work with a diploma then you are totally wrong. Poly are just like ITE where a place to keep weak students.
The upcoming public university should have a different system from the current universities. NTU and NUS take in students base on 'A' levels results while SMU bases on SAT tests. Those with who have diploma fm local polytechnics must obtain excellent results and depending on the vacancies left in then universities. It's quite reasonable and fair for the intakes since any applicant will have to go through SAT tests. Although NTU and NUS will go have this system starting from 2003, all 3 are still bias for 'A' lever holders over diploma holders, which is very unfair. How can a diploma holder continue to upgrade their education if no universities can accept him and he cannot afford to study overseas even distance learning? You can blame him for not studying hard enough but not everyone has a bright brain. He cannot enter junior collage does not means he can do well in polytechnics. His academic results is still above average even though he cannot make it for any scholarships where there are only few. In this case, something should be done to help him.
The fourth university's student population should have around 60% of diploma holders from any local polytechnics, 20% from junior collages and 20% foreign students under undergraduate programs. All 'A' level holders and those who do not have any relevant qualifications for some programs must go through at least 1 year of foundation or bridging courses. Foundation or bridging courses are part of the 3 or 4 years (Hon's) degree programs. Relevant diploma holders for some programs will not need to do the foundation or bridging courses. Therefore, their 3 or 4 years (Hon's) program will cut down by at least 1 to 2 semesters. Foreign applicants must have relevant qualifications and the minimum SAT or TOEFL scores. 'A' level holders from local junior collages should have good academic results and good performances in their CCA, as it will be very competitive. Diploma holders from any local polytechnics now stands higher chances to get a degree and no need to be depressed or worry about program fees. Through this kind of intake system, it will create the best quality and professional university locally and internationally.
You may think that this is a stupid idea system but this is a dream from all polytechnics' students and working adults. You can debate that everyone will have a degree and the education level standard will be pulled down. Soon a Bachelor degree is as good as a 'A' level qualification. Think again, 4 polytechnics population applying for only a university is still very competitive. How many can it holds comparing to 3 universities for 15 junior collage population? There are many reasons why the future population of this fourth university accepts only 20% of 'A' holders. This is because they have higher chances of studying in the other 3 universities. This fourth is just another study option given to them. Moreover, they do not have any working experiences through attachments like in polytechnics, modules teaching methods which used in all universities globally and professional specializations base on their job interests. For example, someone who wish to become a mechanical engineer will pick up a bachelor degree program which have more effective solution to solve problems during their studies because they might came across once in their polytechnic studies or project. As for a fresh JC graduate, he do not really understand what a actual mechanical engineer does since they never study anything about it or experience doing an industry project himself. Another reason is very simple and everyone knows it. Diploma itself is a higher qualification than 'A' level. That is why they can be exempted from foundation or bridging course. Some more, they serve their NS late because the 3-year diploma program starts in late June. This balance the age range of all the males in Singapore getting a Bachelor degree no matter you are from JC or Poly.
This is just my opinion and hope you can appreciate. You may think I am crazy and treat this as a junk. I sincerely give my best wishes to the upcoming fourth quality local university. -
Very well said and insightful article! Thanks for voicing this out and sharing with us!
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as insightful as this article may be, it's does offer some misinformation.
1. SMU is not a loca public university. it's private.
2. SMU doesn't take in undergrads based only on SAT. but also inclues a stringent requirement of an essay, interview, A levels/Dip cert.
3. it's not called a SAT test, it's like saying I have a BA arts degree.
FYI
Cheers -
there are many wrong info with this article...
pls kindly do proper research before u post this type of post..
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~~EviL AngeL~~
[/i:vel eindzel/]
more affectionately known as...
tHe eXtrA-oRdiNaRy eCCenTriC PaRanOid BiTch wiF thE PaiZaBor aTTiTudE
(that happens to love prata...and Quickly PearlTofu) -
there may be some minor mistakes about the information & should do more resreach but it's still true that NUS & NTU do not recongise sg dip even though afew of their students are fm poly. so wat! dip is still a higher qulification but y only taking in a small % compare to A levels? even SMU oso follow this stupid way to take in students. R only students fm jc consider talents? Y must dip holders always be condemn & chase out fm sg to get a f**king degree? this article is not wrong at all! IT is the gov & society who look down on them.
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Since you're so cheesed off abt the intake policy. Why do you not work hard to get ADs for your dip, so as to secure a place in uni?
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kindly yours UKJ -
It is not the matter of gettting ADs in poly. The fact is tt local uni dun recongise local poly dip! Even a COM holder fm any poly r not confirm a place in uni althought has a higher adv. It's the matter of how the uni treat & look on poly ppl. So wat if every1 says i am smart becoz i get alot of ADs in poly. The uni still wun accpect u. Unless u r fm JC, even u get only a B & all C, NTU will still take in u. TT's shows tt even a not so smart guy as long as he study in JC, he has secured a place in uni. In conclusion, studying in poly is not a wise choice. No need for a 5th poly here. Even an ITE grad earns the same starting salary with poly grad. Why must waste ur time in poly??? U go NS late & will notice many people(mainly gers & JC ppl) ard u have overtake u alot.
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are they really bias against TP grads?
me from tp sch of design, product & industrial design... me sourcing for a relevant course in university. the only one is NUS.
how? ....
advise anyone out there? -
well, u can say tt. dun think i even stand a chance in nus even u win any kinda award in poly. going to tp is the worest choice. dun ever think of studying in sg when u already place ur heart in poly. for my advice, try to think of way to get & save money to go overseas if u dun intend to stop with a dip. another way is very difficult unless luck is with u. go get scholarship like PSC scholarship but mostly will be given to JC ppl. Or u go ocs in ur ns den apply for SAF scholarship, it's the safest & confirm way but depending if u can go ocs anot. anyway i cant tell u ntu & nus is damn bias so dun need to think so much. i can only give u 2% of chance to study uni here.
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chi bu dao pu tao shuo pu tao suan?
hiaK~
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~~EviL AngeL~~
[/i:vel eindzel/]
more affectionately known as...
tHe eXtrA-oRdiNaRy eCCenTriC PaRanOid BiTch wiF thE PaiZaBor aTTiTudE
(that happens to love prata...and Quickly PearlTofu and Lychee Ice W/pearls)
A hiaK~ is a sarcastic laugh -
hahahaha
agreed.
thanks for listening -
f**K u CB! u all fm jc dun understand poly ppl & their feelings. so pls if u dunno anything, dun interfere! anyway, uni here r all just 2nd class. If all have the money to go overseas u all wun study here liao. not all degrees here r recognise interinationally. If there is a uni only for poly grad & experience workers, i think it will be a world class uni becoz they r the ones who learn & study more than JC dogs. all the current uni can nv be better then this one!
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hiaK~
hiaK~
hiaK~
why ppl need to go overseas uni?
cos they cannot get into local uni lah...doH~
toking abt who is 2nd class??
cant get ur way and have to resort to fingerpointing and complaints...
pathetic..
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~~EviL AngeL~~
[/i:vel eindzel/]
more affectionately known as...
tHe eXtrA-oRdiNaRy eCCenTriC PaRanOid BiTch wiF thE PaiZaBor aTTiTudE
(that happens to love prata...and Quickly PearlTofu and Lychee Ice w/pearls)
A hiaK~ is a sarcastic laugh -
y they cant go local uni....
becoz the local uni they r bias & condemn local dip holders. since they dun recognise them as talents so they will have to throw their parents hard earn money to foreigns. & this is wat this 2nd class uni here do to their own citizens! only 2nd class uni will do such odious things. -
i ask u har...
have u taken a walk ard campus and see for urself how many polygrads are there onot?
if not, then dun ASSUME
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~~EviL AngeL~~
[/i:vel eindzel/]
more affectionately known as...
tHe eXtrA-oRdiNaRy eCCenTriC PaRanOid BiTch wiF thE PaiZaBor aTTiTudE
(that happens to love prata...and Quickly PearlTofu and Lychee Ice w/pearls)
A hiaK~ is a sarcastic laugh -
pls leh.....u blind or wat. u think how many polygrad r there??? u can go find out how many intakes r there for polygrad every yr if u can
so r u saying polygrad taking away jc vacancies? or it's the other way! -
d
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Hi,
After reading all these articles, I must say the poly ppl are really frustrated about the current system. Personally, I am a poly grad who is now a NUS undergrad.
I must stress that the discrimination against the poly students is a fact. However, the severity of this kind of discrimination has been mitigated over the years by the our successful alumini. A very good example will be techno-entrepreneur Mr Sim Wong Hoo, Creative's Boss.
The situation is certainly not as bleak as it was 10 years ago when polytechnic students were refused entry based on VERY stringent academic requirements.
A word advice to aspiring poly-grads : Work Hard and you will not be disappointed !
Here are 2 real-life cases to spur you guys on...
Case 1: My senior secured a EDB-PLE Scholarship and graduated with a 2nd class-upper honours from the UK's Imperial College last year. He was from ECE , Ngee Ann Poly.
He worked very hard during his days in the poly and got several awards including the prestigious Creative Gold Medal!
Case 2 :
I am a poly grad too. I secured a place in NUS as well as a govt. scholarship.
I must admit you have to work harder than your JC counter-parts to receive the same benefits. However, it is this very fighting spirit that differentiates the poly undergrads and the JC undergrads....
Regards,
Xinke -
hi
i entered uni thru A levels. i've frens who entered uni thru poly but i admit majority of uni students here are A lev grads and my poly frens told its difficult to enter uni using dip.
i have a lot of respect for undergrads who were from poly coz i find dat they know more about their fields due to their dip background.
but i must disagree on one point. i feel that you have overlooked the fact that jc was once called pre-university and even today is regarded as the direct path to university, and its harder to enter than poly.
all i want to point out is that we A lev grads have done our fair share of fighting to enter uni back at the time of O levels and shouldn't that account for something? -
Hey lonely guy,dont be so worked up. What u aforemetioned is true, but the main aim of JCs is to get JC students into uni rite? And the original goal of poly was to arm polygrads with a diploma to enter the workforce and not to enter uni(although this might be the secondary goal)
So if equal chances were granted to JC and polygrads to enter uni..the polygrads will win cuz of their professional knowledge. Then who will bother to go JCs? Thus priority is presently being granted to JC students.
The unfair but true moral is that if u are aiming for uni, u shd study hard and go JC.
Hope u are not offended but see the overall picture. -
Hi Rasin,
I agree with you on the point that JC students are bound for the uni...
And it is a indisputable fact that the preparation for a uni education is definitely a secondary goal for the polys.
However, I do not agree with you on the point "that if u are aiming for uni, u shd study hard and go JC." .
There are quite a number of students who are rather competent in their studies except for ENGLISH. During my days in the poly, I have met quite a number of students who would have qualified for JCs if not for their poor English results....
However, no matter how HARD they tried during their 2nd or even 3rd O-level English exam, they still failed !
Coming from chinese-speaking families, these students have no one to turn to for help and they have to resign to their fate.
One of them finally made it to NUS after clinching several awards in poly. He is currently doing very well in the uni and i dare say his uni results are quite good .... better than the average college undergraduate ....
Regards,
Xinke -
Xinke, thanks for enlightening me.. i suppose the heavy emphasis on English and subsequently GP is because of the uni's aim of producing 'well-spoken' grads.
Not that i am saying poly grads are not well spoken and uni grads are the bombastic words spewing type.
However something to bitch abt here..my own personal opinion..some poly grads think we JC ppl look down on them. I had a poly grad acquaintance who was constantly boasting abt how good he was..how a diploma is better than A's cert(duh) how poly grads can skip first year in uni etc..
I mean i had in no way disrepect his diploma and he had this myopic perception of us 'JC nerds'
So anybody out there can can explain to me if tis guy is a monority of majority? -
in order to go uni of coz have to get thru jc 1st. once u cant get into jc & u go poly, ur percentage of going to uni have already drop by more than 1/2! It's not tt the ones go went poly did work hard to get into jc but just unlucky or take the wrong step. If not they wun try to work so hard in their poly to get to uni! It's the stupid education system seperated they thought whom r gd & the poor ones far apart. Once in poly, the only way to get to uni depends on wat poly u study & ur luck. I am not surprise to hear tt u r once a sp grad & now in nus. BUT it will be a 'outstanding' thing to know a tp grad in nus! Of coz poly grads do better than jc ppl in uni becoz they have experience industry project, attachment & wat they have learnt is 20 to 50 % similar to wat they will study in uni or come across in jobs. WAt have jc ppl done in their jc??? they only study fm books & memorise things by hard. I know it is oso not easy to memorise things as everybody have experience it in sec b4 but A level is just an lousy quification to judge ppl to get into uni. Tt's why our uni here is not as successful & rank the top in the world. We only compare ourself to poor asia countries like malaysia indonsia phillpines etc. Of coz ppl fm such places wanna come here! R we do not even met the standard of middle ranking uni in uk aust & usa. IT's just tt we only have such an uni call nus in sg & tt y so well-known.
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To compare A's cert and poly cert is like comparing apples and oranges.
It's true that the poly cert is more relevant to whatever course u are goin ginto in the uni..but like i mentioned above..the main route of JCs is to provide a stepping stone for students into uni..in all, u can see jc+uni as a 5/6 years diploma. whereas a poly+uni scenario is more like going into a deeper depth of yer current expertise.
But sad to say, there are some capable students who are let down by their english results at the O's hurdle. These ppl can go on to do very well in poly and not make it to uni due to the system's injustice lonely guy had mentioned. But, i ask ppl reading this thread, if equal oppturnity is given to both A's cert and diploma and obviously diploma wins hands down, what will happen to the JC students? A's cert alone cant bring u to many places. -
Hi Rasin,
I am sorry to say that the point you have made on "myopic perception of us 'JC nerds'" is quite true.
Having being discrminated by the education system, some of the polytechnic students/grads have developed an inferiority complex in their sub-conscious mind. As such, they are rather defensive about their polytechnic education and become critics of college education.
I am not in a position to comment on the statistics .... but I will say they constitute a "significant proportion" of the poly population.
I agree with you on the apples and oranges story. College education focuses on the fundamentals of science and mathematics while poly education focuces on skills development. However, both education systems do have grey areas where they over-lapped.
I will say most of the college grads / poly grads that I've met in uni are well aware of each other's strengths and weaknesses. However, I can't say the same for those outside of the uni community.
Certain poly students do not realize that the skills that they have learnt are built upon layers science and mathematical theories. In order to achieve a break-through, you simply can't ignore the science and mathematical fundamentals. Similarly, some college students can't really apply what they have learnt in college to practical situations/applications. They simply can't correlate the theories and their applications.
The uni(not only local uni)provides a training ground for these students to learn from each other and to be more competent in their respective fields...
Regards,
Xinke