LKY - Heaven & Hell
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If you try to convert me,
I've thought about heaven and hell,
I'm prepared to face either,
if either of them exists.
- Lee Kuan Yew
(The Straits Times, 06.09.11)Is it possible for anyone to truly imagine or to ever be prepared to face the endless terrors of eternal hell, if it really exists? Can one be extremely prepared for the extremely unknown? If we contemplate the possibilities of the afterlife as being simply nothing other than the extremes of eternal heaven or hell, and consider that being sufficient thinking, we are being extremely simplistic – because how can anyone do enough of any good and evil in a limited lifetime to deserve extreme reward or extreme retribution? Between such extreme ends, not that they are real, there should naturally be a spectrum of other possible and temporal states (realms or planes) of the afterlife for those who are neither extremely good nor evil – us. Many agnostics have not reflected on this thoroughly, while they might believe they have already done so, thus dismissing the need for further reflection.
There are two extreme misconceptions about the afterlife, as highlighted by the Buddha, which agnostics, free-thinkers and even some religionists might oscillate between, both of which we should avoid. The first misconception is Nihilism (æ–ç�è§�), which proposes that since there is nothing after this life, that there is no state of existence hereafter and no rebirth, and nothing we do now to ensure a better (or worse) afterlife will ever matter. But how can something become nothing, when even scientists cannot destroy energy? Energy can only transform from one state to another. The mind or consciousness is very definite and powerful energy – that cannot simply fizzle out into 'nothingness'. The second misconception is Eternalism (é•¿è§�), which proposes that the state we are in after this life will be eternal – as an unchanging heaven or eternal hell.
What the Buddha realised is that the truth lies on the Middle Path between these two erroneous views. There is the phenomenon of ongoing rebirth for the unenlightened. Between the idea of 'fixed nothingness' in Nihilism, and the idea of 'fixed somethingness' in Eternalism, lies constant change of 'everythingness' via rebirth – from life to life. Agnostics should thus reconsider the laws of cause and effect, of how what one does now can karmically affect the afterlife, which is more likely to exist than not. We need to guard our thoughts, speech and deeds now – because they will lead us to somewhere and not nowhere. And when that somewhere is reached, we need to continue being mindful as what we do there will lead elsewhere!
If there is karmic afterlife,
you will have a good rebirth if you do good.
If there is no karmic afterlife,
you will live happily now if you are free of ill will.
If evil befalls the evil,
you will not be affected if you do no evil.
If evil does not befall the evil,
you will be pure both ways if you do no evil and do good.
- Stonepeace (rephrased from Kalama Sutta) -
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
If you try to convert me,
I've thought about heaven and hell,
I'm prepared to face either,
if either of them exists.
- Lee Kuan Yew
(The Straits Times, 06.09.11)I think it is high time for Lee Kuan Yew to answer God's invitation. It's not polite of Lee Kuan Yew to keep God waiting.
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Originally posted by Dalforce 25:
I think it is high time for Lee Kuan Yew to answer God's invitation. It's not polite of Lee Kuan Yew to keep God waiting.
Then he can go and give God advice.
God will be like, Whoa slow down there, you think heaven citizenship so easy to get like Singapore's?
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Originally posted by alize:
Then he can go and give God advice.
God will be like, Whoa slow down there, you think heaven citizenship so easy to get like Singapore's?
I think he will be banished to hell and rot there. Hell for Lee Kuan Yew would be a place where everybody there only speak chinese dialects.
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Oh, you guys read only the 1st few lines and not the contents? The main point here is how can anyone do enough of any good and evil in a limited lifetime to deserve extreme reward or extreme retribution. Heaven and hell are not permanent places and they are not the only places. There are 6 rebirth paths (heaven, humans, demi-gods, animals, ghosts & hell).
Instead of thinking where do others go to, think about where you will be going to after this life.
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:)
Naturally, such a potent name like former Minister Mentor LKY will bring about reactions that may veer off the main point of Mr Shen's article.
The author, besides exhorting us to see that there is no logic in believing that there is an eternal heaven or unchanging hell, is also asking us to question the logic of the extreme viewpoints of eternalism and nihilism.
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thus heard, a tibetan master saw a Cakravartiraja, 转轮圣王, in his previous life, hence got such an influential status. fyi.
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i do not think such statements should be overreacted when he is expressing his personal views...
his answer is that of a pragmatist...he will face all odds....and even if the question poses to eternal recurrence....i believe his answer would be one with no regrets and he would want to be reborn over and over again as a politician...
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i suppose he must believe that when he dies,his body will be transported by space aliens to the zentraedi flag ship and he will meet with commander Bretai who will give him command of his flagship or something.
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be it a Buddha or the politician, the common spiritual element is courage to face all odds, heaven and hell.....the importance of achieving mastery of the self before the rest...
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Originally posted by Fcukpap:
be it a Buddha or the politician, the common spiritual element is courage to face all odds, heaven and hell.....the importance of achieving mastery of the self before the rest...
Nice picture!
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As this blogger opines, true courage is more about daring to dispense with illusive thinking.
From: http://whatisthespark.blogspot.com/2011/05/musical-musings-all-your-tears.html (link via sinweiy)
Do Not Try
Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. If you haven't wept deeply, you haven't begun to meditate. ~ Ajahn ChanI'd say that this advice is not specific to Buddhism or meditation. I'd say it is pertinent to any exercise of deep, honest self-reflection, religious or non-religious. To honestly contemplate on oneself--on why we hold onto a past that no longer exists; on why we pine for a a future that, until it arrives, remains a phantasm/projection; and on why we resist accepting what arises in the present--to observe these habitual tendencies without judgement, blame, or shame can be a highly discomforting process which may sometimes be accompanied by tears, prompted not so much by sorrow/regret/guilt but by a kind of 'disillusionment'---by this I mean the dissipating of illusive thinking rather than disillusionment as it is conventionally understood as a kind of disappointment. When those illusions that we've habitually and unconsciously indulged in are recognised clearly for what they are--illusions--we are in a sense 'lost' because we are bereft of those defense or avoidance mechanisms that prevent us from recognising change, from recognising that change is always already occurring whether we like it or not, that we always already have the freedom to become otherwise.
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the common sense of courage against the illusion of courage and the realities of evil and human bondage
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there are those who strive for inner peace, there are those who fight for outer peace....
true courage is what makes the difference and the bridge between leaders of crisis and helpless souls ...
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
thus heard, a tibetan master saw a Cakravartiraja, 转轮圣王, in his previous life, hence got such an influential status.
fyi.What is 转轮圣王? I've heard of this in the sutras but I do not exactly who or what is it?
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World peace is not just the prerogative or the inaction or the calmness of one, but for all and against evil suppression too ...
