現世為何不報? - why does retribution not befall in this lifetime?

• realization

  24 Aug 11, 13:18

  A Venerable on Facebook posed this question for us to ponder. 

  �世為何�報?

  He means to ask why effect (not necessarily retribution only, but also pleasant effects) doesn't come hot on the heels of cause within the current lifetime?

  What would your answer be?

   

• Amitayus48

  24 Aug 11, 13:34

  因为本�无一物�若没有报，那他何�此生呢�

• Domo Kun

  24 Aug 11, 13:35

  This is a very good question. I used to think how come the bookies I know all no retribution one.
• sinweiy

  24 Aug 11, 14:41

  i no more ponder this question. as i more or less convince that the timing is not right and that they (the bad guys) had accumulated a lot of merit in the past life.

  i'm sure �光大师 Master Yin Guang ever answered this question before in his letters from the students.

  i found this:

  58．念佛人为什么也会惨死？

   

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  http://bookgb.bfnn.org/books/0425.htm#a66

  /\

• SevenEleven

  24 Aug 11, 14:58

  Originally posted by realization:

  A Venerable on Facebook posed this question for us to ponder. 

  �世為何�報?

  He means to ask why effect (not necessarily retribution only, but also pleasant effects) doesn't come hot on the heels of cause within the current lifetime?

  What would your answer be?

   

  This just justify the idea of rebirth.

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  24 Aug 11, 15:39

  There are many cases of retribution in this life if we were to observe people around us carefully. The most obvious ones are those who ill treat their parents, murderers, loan sharks etc. Their retributions are in this life.

  I have an ex-colleague whose relative's mother is a loan shark. Though the relative is very rich but all her children (5 or 6 I can't remember) have long term major organs sickness. I have a relative who was a loan shark, that was more than 20 years ago. His first born who was a son was a mute. Relatives advised him to quit and he did. He had another 3 children who are normal.

  �是�报，�是时辰未到。

  Well, many people will say that this is not fair because what the parents did has nothing to do with their children. Actually this is called "common karma"共业. Meaning the child was supposed to be born mute because of his own past karma but he was born into this family because they share the "common karma". So, in fact what the parents did have nothing to do with the children but because of their common karma, their "frequency" are the same.

• realization

  24 Aug 11, 19:04

  Yeah, I tend towards the same concept as Sinweiy mentioned above.
  
  Either causes and conditions not yet ripe, or plenty of merits to "dilute" the bad effects. 

  As I happened to hear MCK mention in one of his talks, all imprints of thought, word and deed we commit are stored in our 8th alaya consciousness.  Those imprints can never be erased, but it's a matter of whether we have cultivated our minds sufficiently to not let any bad effects come to fruition.  Mind cultivation is also meritorious, besides yielding skilful mind states.

  Maybe the more experienced practitioners can shed more light on the above...

  /\  thanks.

• realization

  24 Aug 11, 19:06

  Originally posted by SevenEleven:

  This just justify the idea of rebirth.

   

  True.

• 2009novice

  25 Aug 11, 00:01

  the conditions are not ready or missing... karma can't take effect :)

• An Eternal Now

  25 Aug 11, 01:39

  因果通三世
• realization

  25 Aug 11, 08:42

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

     因果通三世

   ah...

• Dawnfirstlight

  25 Aug 11, 22:54

  Karma is not easy to understand. Only Buddha is able to understand it. Karma is far too complicated for lay man to understand. It is not so straight forward as 1+1=2.

• Amitayus48

  12 Sep 11, 13:20

  This is not important and not the main tenet of Buddhism especially Pureland. You just rest on Buddha Amitabha, upon your attainment, it is self-explanatory.

  It has retributed, a very good example among others

  她�是在�觉，也�是在禅�

  http://hi.baidu.com/%B8%C4%D4%EC%C3%FC%D4%CB/blog/item/0e426c1f750c8ac5a7866984.html

• dragg

  12 Sep 11, 13:25

  因果 has no logic.

  let say i get retribution in my next life.  how does it 'hurt' me when i dont even know its me?

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  12 Sep 11, 13:31

  Originally posted by dragg:

  因果 has no logic.

  let say i get retribution in my next life.  how does it 'hurt' me when i dont even know its me?

   

  If a person was drunk and unfortunately got hit by a car and was paralysed. He could not recall what had happened and how he was hit by the car because he was drunk but that does not mean he will change the fact that he is paralysed for the rest of his life.

  Can you relate the story to the fact that how it hurts you when you have to suffer for your sins although you can't recall what you had done in your past life?

  The point here is it does not matter whether you can recall or you can't. Karma will still work  regardless of whether you can recall or not.

  Buddha is the wise one who tells us how karma works. Just like the person who got hit by the car would be  told by someone  how he got paralyse though he could not recall the accident. I believe that person will have lots of regrets and wish that he had never drunk liquor at all.

  Many people like you have the misconception that retributions only happen in next life. In fact, retributions can happen in this very life if you observe people or things happening around you carefully.

   

• Amitayus48

  12 Sep 11, 15:41

  Originally posted by dragg:

  因果 has no logic.

  let say i get retribution in my next life.  how does it 'hurt' me when i dont even know its me?

   

  
  Precisely, it never has any logic at all. Need not have to wait for next life, just this life, and at present time is enough for a trial run  - Try sitting meditation and check for yourself for any "false" thoughts from arising. Many people have plentiful of false thoughts arising that "hurt" even without them knowing it themselves. Some dose off while others may be snoring with some good dreams some lost themelves inside the false thoughts.

• dragg

  12 Sep 11, 16:26

  Originally posted by Amitayus48:

  
  Precisely, it never has any logic at all. Need not have to wait for next life, just this life, and at present time is enough for a trial run  - Try sitting meditation and check for yourself for any "false" thoughts from arising. Many people have plentiful of false thoughts arising that "hurt" even without them knowing it themselves. Some dose off while others may be snoring with some good dreams some lost themelves inside the false thoughts.

  maybe i did not express myself clearly.  i personally feel it is more 'fair' to have 现世报. then everyone would be held accoountable for his or her own actions. then people who wants to do evil would think twice before doing it.  æ�¥ä¸–报 doesnt serve that purpose coz the person in this life would not know himself in the next life and vice versa.

  is it confusing?

• realization

  12 Sep 11, 17:42

  æ�¥ä¸–报 or any form of suffering reminds the individual that bodhi (awakening) is necessary.  

  The spiritual life is not only about doing good versus evil.  Doing good is necessary for the maintenance of healthy states of mind so that one may more easily stay in right concentration and mindfulness, and hence lead to awakening.

  Likewise, bad karma that catches up with us is not so much a punishment - although our mundane minds tend to think along such lines - but simply a reminder that previous unskilful mind states and actions resulted in current undesirable life circumstances. 

  When faced with undesirable life circumstances, we look for a solution to our suffering.  Those with more affinity will more quickly encounter the Buddhadharma, while those with less merit may take some time to find the escape route.

• Dawnfirstlight

  12 Sep 11, 17:58

  Originally posted by dragg:

  maybe i did not express myself clearly.  i personally feel it is more 'fair' to have 现世报. then everyone would be held accoountable for his or her own actions. then people who wants to do evil would think twice before doing it.  æ�¥ä¸–报 doesnt serve that purpose coz the person in this life would not know himself in the next life and vice versa.

  is it confusing?

  There are many 现世报. Most of the murderers are sent to prison or sentenced to death. Aren't those 现世报? Anyway, karma is not so straight forward. It is not 1+1=2.

• dragg

  13 Sep 11, 09:26

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  There are many 现世报. Most of the murderers are sent to prison or sentenced to death. Aren't those 现世报? Anyway, karma is not so straight forward. It is not 1+1=2.

  its true.  but i am sure there are many more cases of people not getting punished.

   

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  13 Sep 11, 14:38

  Originally posted by dragg:

  its true.  but i am sure there are many more cases of people not getting punished.

   

   

  There was this Ven. who told us a real story. He said there was this criminal who was sentenced to death for a murder case. This criminal asked to see the Ven. before hanging. He told the Ven. that he was really innocent, he did not kill the victim. However, he said he deserved the sentence and did not blame anyone because he had earlier murdered someone but was not arrested. So, after understanding karma, he accepted his sentence willingly. It is just a case of karma catches up with this person.

• dragg

  13 Sep 11, 15:02

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  There was this Ven. who told us a real story. He said there was this criminal who was sentenced to death for a murder case. This criminal asked to see the Ven. before hanging. He told the Ven. that he was really innocent, he did not kill the victim. However, he said he deserved the sentence and did not blame anyone because he had earlier murdered someone but was not arrested. So, after understanding karma, he accepted his sentence willingly. It is just a case of karma catches up with this person.

  but then its so difficult to accept not everyone would be punished in the same lifetime.  punishment meted out in the next life serves no purpose.

   

• realization

  13 Sep 11, 18:33

  I suppose when faced with seemingly unfair/unfavourable circumstances in life, it really could seem meaningless in the sense that you sometimes don't remember doing anything to "deserve" it. 

  It has occurred to me though, that we often aren't aware of the many things that do go well in our lives.  We do not relate it to meritorious actions we had done previously.   As macro examples, living in a peaceful country, living where there aren't hunger and drought issues, being able to have an education, etc.   Ask the underprivileged in a Third World country and they will tell you their lot in life is far less than folks like us who even have time to ponder such issues on the Internet. 

  We would willingly accept the good stuff and take it for granted, but rail at the workings of karma when "bad" things happen.