EPL ~ Blackburn 3 - 1 Liverpool
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Originally posted by zocoss:
Hahaha... I have never ever think of him as a great coach or manager at all. In fact, if anyone remember, from the beginning i already questioned his credential to a Liverpool fan in here who seem to thought Roy was good... In fact, during that time... Anyone other than Rafa was good it seems... I had mentioned very early what has he ever won, some Danish league and another small time one as well but the guy said he had 'big club' experienced with Inter... And I pointed out he was in charge of an Inter side that wasn't successful, meaning a mid table club 'big club' as well and not a recently improved reputation Inter side after Jose Mourinho...
But, him being the Manager of the Year is indeed true is it not?
Inter started winning league titles under Roberto Mancini. When Mourinho took over, they have already won consecutive league titles, but he did led them to European success. -
Originally posted by sg_forum:
"why would this Andre see Pool as a step-up from Porto?"
This is quite true. Not to be sound arrogant...but if you are a football manager, would you like to manage Liverpool or Porto? Now at least the club management has stabilised, Liverpool can attract more candidates for the job liao. Andre is a very young coach, only 33 or 34 years old but has been impressive so far although not in the toughest league like EPL...although he worked as Mourinho's assistant prior to that. Just my opinion.
not to offend, but if I am not wrong, one player scouted by Pool did make the comment on why he should step down and join pool, hence I quoted from there.
well, if I am a young manager, looking for some silverware to add to my resume, I won't choose Pool. This legacy club, with its rich history, suffocates, a youth development that needs a massive job, plus, i am not sure how the new owners would work out, in a tough league that is already dominate with rich clubs and I have to turn the club around with only 2 superstars fast. It may be a big challenge, but it may most likely break me.. It is not a place where my name will be most likely added to the has-beens.. so I rather walk alone.
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Originally posted by zocoss:
But, him being the Manager of the Year is indeed true is it not?
bro, the official manager of the year = harry. this is awarded by fa
lma manager of the year = roy. lma is some association, there are also alot other magazines/websites/associations giving their own 'manager of the year'.
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Originally posted by Zweiz:
bro, the official manager of the year = harry. this is awarded by fa
lma manager of the year = roy. lma is some association, there are also alot other magazines/websites/associations giving their own 'manager of the year'.
Bro... That's exactly the point... The League Managers Association (LMA) is what that is more valuable because you are chosen by your peers get it?It's not just some magazines/websites/associations as you seem to think that is stuff with reporters or suits or rich owners who have never ever manage a real football club before...
The League Managers Association (LMA), is fill with real football managers who I expect understand the game a lot better than some suits who are CEOs but have never kick a football or even manage a small tiny football club in their live before.
It's current President is none other than the current England coach/manager himself...
So don't associate it to some magazines/websites/associations... Cos it's far bigger than these...
And for your info, it's an older award than the FA's version too...
If you need to know more can visit here...
http://www.leaguemanagers.com/about/structure-3.html
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Originally posted by Cristiano@Red_Devils.com:
Inter started winning league titles under Roberto Mancini. When Mourinho took over, they have already won consecutive league titles, but he did led them to European success.
Yes, I think we all know this but the Inter then were not really respected cos many said the punishment to Juve and AC Milan gave them the titles... And they have never pass the 2nd round in the CL for many years... It was only after Jose took over that he manage to get them pass that stage in his last season there...So of course the recent Inter is more respectable than the one earlier under Mancini. But after Rafa... lol...
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i think it is wrong to say liverpool doesnt have money.
IN fact during rafa times, he spent alot of money, almost comparable to man utd who spent to wrestle the title back from chelsea. But look at liverpool. who did they buy? they probably bought 30+ players all over the continent and what happen? besides torres, alonso, maybe mascherano, reina...all are flops.
at the sametime, teams like arsenal, are spending less but remain in UCL year after year for restructure knowing this is gona be a billionaire market.
liverpool problems
1. management problem. they should start focus attention on youth rather pure buying from market. when money is dry, they simply can buy and no youth to back up. can you name any youth coming from liverpool academy recently and playing for liverpool now?
2. wrong manager. rafa simply make too many bad signing. he should have left years before . instead they retain him and make good liverpool wonder what wrong with this guy. benayoun once said, even if i play well, he dont play him. babel once touted as new henry, simply lost all his confidence at liverpool, now become a bit part player who could not play for holland.
at the sametime, he sold player like peter crouch, robbie keane who could have been impact players and offer more attacking option than ngog. besides torres, what stiker do you have?
3. fans, be realistic, ousting hogson would not solve your problems. with all the players available at your disposal, you are mid table team.
liverpool is a team that has done total wrong!!
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Rafa had a serious shopping addiction.
Every Tom, Dick and Henry were his targets.
And they usually got to play a few games per season before getting shipped off to another team.
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Originally posted by JusStatic:
Hmm.. finally someone who also follows the other leagues. I am sure there are people out here whom watches the other leagues but I guess they are few and far between. Good to know
I guess that's why so few ppl will rate a manager who has done well in other leagues but has a average to poor time in epl barring well, o'neill....which i don't get. mclaren has basically done the same things as he did, win the league cup, final of uefa cup, won leagues titles in weaker leagues, point to note that the dutch league is much tougher than spl.
Yet still, you'll never find him rated anywhere close to o'neill....
even managers who have done well in big leagues also dun get rated, eriksson and houllier springs to mind!!
And everything seems to be mickey mouse if it's not the champs league or the top euro leagues doesn't it?? league cup = mickey mouse cup, europa league = mickey mouse compared to champs league, 2nd tier euro leagues = donald duck
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Originally posted by zocoss:
Bro... That's exactly the point... The League Managers Association (LMA) is what that is more valuable because you are chosen by your peers get it?It's not just some magazines/websites/associations as you seem to think that is stuff with reporters or suits or rich owners who have never ever manage a real football club before...
The League Managers Association (LMA), is fill with real football managers who I expect understand the game a lot better than some suits who are CEOs but have never kick a football or even manage a small tiny football club in their live before.
It's current President is none other than the current England coach/manager himself...
So don't associate it to some magazines/websites/associations... Cos it's far bigger than these...
And for your info, it's an older award than the FA's version too...
If you need to know more can visit here...
http://www.leaguemanagers.com/about/structure-3.html
past winners includes Alan Curbishley (who?) in '00, George Burnley (who?) in '01, while Steve Coppell was the only manager who won it back-to-back in '06 & '07
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Originally posted by The man who was death:
Yet still, you'll never find him rated anywhere close to o'neill....
even managers who have done well in big leagues also dun get rated, eriksson and houllier springs to mind!!
you need to go back to the leicester's premier league days to see why o'neill is so highly rated
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Originally posted by iceFatboy:
well, if I am a young manager, looking for some silverware to add to my resume, I won't choose Pool. This legacy club, with its rich history, suffocates, a youth development that needs a massive job, plus, i am not sure how the new owners would work out, in a tough league that is already dominate with rich clubs and I have to turn the club around with only 2 superstars fast. It may be a big challenge, but it may most likely break me.. It is not a place where my name will be most likely added to the has-beens.. so I rather walk alone.
thank god rafa didn't think like you do, or we wouldn't have won a 5th ucl trophy =)
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Originally posted by Zweiz:
you need to go back to the leicester's premier league days to see why o'neill is so highly rated
why dun you go back to charlton's premier league days and see if you rate curbishley
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Originally posted by The man who was death:
why dun you go back to charlton's premier league days and see if you rate curbishley
do i rate curbishley to do reasonably well with a club starved of funds, like roy with fulham? yeah
but do you rate curbishley to mount a serious title challenge and perform in europe? hahhaa
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Originally posted by Zweiz:
past winners includes Alan Curbishley (who?) in '00, George Burnley (who?) in '01, while Steve Coppell was the only manager who won it back-to-back in '06 & '07
If you are still not aware who these managers Alan Curbishley (who?) in '00, George Burnley (who?) in '01 are, they were honoured for the work they did on those years...
What they achieved in those years was by no means an easy task... Curbishley was credited for the revival of a club's fortunes and took an unfancied Charlton on a double promotion and into the Premier league on a low budget if you are not aware of... Just like what Roy achieved last season with Fulham... Cos these clubs are not expected to do that well especially in Europe. So all the more it was remarkable in its own right...
I suggest you read up on how they came about being honoured by their fellow peers before questioning them as George Burnley (who?) in '01 cos for your info... He was also the FA Manager of the year on that same year if you must know. It kind of make one feel or at least looked silly didn't it?
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Originally posted by zocoss:
What they achieved in those years was by no means an easy task... Curbishley was credited for the revival of a club's fortunes and took an unfancied Charlton on a double promotion and into the Premier league on a low budget if you are not aware of... Just like what Roy achieved last season with Fulham... Cos these clubs are not expected to do that well especially in Europe. So all the more it was remarkable in its own right...
unfortunately, liverpool is not an 'unfancied club that's not expected to do that well in europe'
remarkable, yes, but would you count on them to manage a top club and challenging for titles?
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Remarkable is what got them their awards... Be it a fancy club or not, it was still remarkable on that year... Unfortunately, you are not like some of the rest who are more realistic to the situation of the present day and still living in history... Your first sentence more or less gave you away... While most have realistic expectations and know you have to be challenging year in, year out to be in the top 4, some unfortunate ones still belief it's their given right to be there... Just wake up and look around for yourself... The City, The Chelsea... Or the not so rich clubs, The Spurs, The Arsenal or the United... The changes going on there... What have Pool the club achieved in the last 2 decades to deserve this given right to be a top club?
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Originally posted by Zweiz:
do i rate curbishley to do reasonably well with a club starved of funds, like roy with fulham? yeah
but do you rate curbishley to mount a serious title challenge and perform in europe? hahhaa
i think curbs can perform in the europa league just like what roy did last season and this season with pool's youngsters....
no one is expecting curbishley to be at a top club just like o'neill, come on i'm just talking about ppl not rating managers even when they've as you said it, done reasonably well....but you see o'neill get rated more than your curbs and mcclarens even when he's done the same job as them...
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Originally posted by zocoss:
Unfortunately, you are not like some of the rest who are more realistic to the situation of the present day and still living in history… Your first sentence more or less gave you away…
While most have realistic expectations and know you have to be challenging year in, year out to be in the top 4, some unfortunate ones still belief it’s their given right to be there…
Just wake up and look around for yourself… The City, The Chelsea… Or the not so rich clubs, The Spurs, The Arsenal or the United… The changes going on there… What have Pool the club achieved in the last 2 decades to deserve this given right to be a top club?
rafa, after finishing 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 2nd, was sacked for finishing 7th
roy took liverpool to 12th and you're trying to justify him
/topic
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Originally posted by The man who was death:
i think curbs can perform in the europa league just like what roy did last season and this season with pool's youngsters....
no one is expecting curbishley to be at a top club just like o'neill, come on i'm just talking about ppl not rating managers even when they've as you said it, done reasonably well....but you see o'neill get rated more than your curbs and mcclarens even when he's done the same job as them...
but o'neill did more than 'perform in europa league', right after he won promotion with leicester, he took leicester to 9th, 10th, 10th & 8th the next 4 seasons winning 2 league cups along the way (and he never won lma manager)
depending on how you look at it, he could have 4 good seasons (roy had 1 good season with fulham) or he took leicester to 'the next level' - from avoiding relegation to cementing a place in the top half of the table - this is why many (including myself) rated o'neill higher
also, i'm lazy to count, but a quick glance seems to tell me that o'neill alone won more trophies than the other 4 (mclaren, curbs, burnley & roy) combined.
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Originally posted by Zweiz:
but o'neill did more than 'perform in europa league', right after he won promotion with leicester, he took leicester to 9th, 10th, 10th & 8th the next 4 seasons winning 2 league cups along the way (and he never won lma manager)
oh and for comparison's purposes, lma manager of the years '95 to '98 were frank clark (who?), peter reid (who?), danny wilson (who?) and dave jones (who?)
you gotto pardon me if i dont rate lma's award as high as you do
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Originally posted by Zweiz:
rafa, after finishing 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 2nd, was sacked for finishing 7th
roy took liverpool to 12th and you're trying to justify him
/topic
Wow... That's many years of failing isn't it? And finally out of the top 4 despite spending more than Fergie and most other managers like Wenger... If you are still not aware, under Rafa, Pool was reported to have the biggest squad. 69 if I am not wrong... But what good was it? One thing for sure, they took up more funds to unkeep i belief...Look, no one is trying to justify Roy here ok... All is being said is the way he was treated and only given 6 months to pull a sinking ship out of the water... Like I already said earlier, I already questioned his credential long before this with a Pool fan here... But it is still a fact that he is the Current Manager of the Year, Pool did poached him from another club while he was still under contract and had to pay a compensation... No?
Then for someone who seems not to know what the LMA meant, belittled it to some magazines/websites/associations (like those run by reporters and fans) and questioned a winner not knowing this same manager was also the winner of his (better) FA version... It's just so silly...
What i want to say is the Pool fans treated Roy badly, he didn't get the support he needed... 6 months is just too short a time to turn the club around... When I mention support, we can see for ourselves... If Kenny continue this poor form, the fans won't blame him, He can even lose at Old Trafford playing poorly and the fans will find excuses for him. Hell Kenny can take them to the Championship League and the fans will still find someone else to blame for their problems... There was an acticle i read which i thought was very well suited to the current Liverpool situation... Maybe I will post it here later...
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Originally posted by zocoss:
Wow... That's many years of failing isn't it? And finally out of the top 4 despite spending more than Fergie and most other managers like Wenger... If you are still not aware, under Rafa, Pool was reported to have the biggest squad. 69 if I am not wrong... But what good was it? One thing for sure, they took up more funds to unkeep i belief...
i think you're the one that needs a reality check. you think of a 3rd, 3rd, 4th & 2nd finishing as 'failing', while i do not.
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Originally posted by zocoss:
Look, no one is trying to justify Roy here ok... All is being said is the way he was treated and only given 6 months to pull a sinking ship out of the water... Like I already said earlier, I already questioned his credential long before this with a Pool fan here... But it is still a fact that he is the Current Manager of the Year, Pool did poached him from another club while he was still under contract and had to pay a compensation... No?
Then for someone who seems not to know what the LMA meant, belittled it to some magazines/websites/associations (like those run by reporters and fans) and questioned a winner not knowing this same manager was also the winner of his (better) FA version... It's just so silly...
What i want to say is the Pool fans treated Roy badly, he didn't get the support he needed... 6 months is just too short a time to turn the club around... When I mention support, we can see for ourselves... If Kenny continue this poor form, the fans won't blame him, He can even lose at Old Trafford playing poorly and the fans will find excuses for him. Hell Kenny can take them to the Championship League and the fans will still find someone else to blame for their problems... There was an acticle i read which i thought was very well suited to the current Liverpool situation... Maybe I will post it here later...
my argument is that roy caused the sinking ship =P
or to put it another way, many would rate jose as a good manager (i think he's a cunt though), but not many would expect him to do good at a club void of funds and fighting relegation battles
the inverse is also true for managers like roy & mclaren
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It's a failing what :) Rafa spends so much on players, won the european cup yet he cant mount a serious title challenge?
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Originally posted by Zweiz:
my argument is that roy caused the sinking ship =P
or to put it another way, many would rate jose as a good manager (i think he's a cunt though), but not many would expect him to do good at a club void of funds and fighting relegation battles
the inverse is also true for managers like roy & mclaren
Hahaha... The term 'sinking ship' was used by one of Rafa's very own player he brought in... Who, you will need to find out for yourself... He said he wanted to get out of the "sinking ship" referring to Liverpool the club he was at during the time he was still there and Rafa was still in charged... To be precise last season actually... 7th place remember?And since you said Liverpool are a top club, a 3rd, 3rd, 4th & 2nd finish should still be ok but 7th and out of the CL after being given so much time and money there?
See what happen to Inter... Roy didn't had much to work with Rafa had the current European champions squad of players to work with and yet... What happen? lol...
I don't even know if other Pool fans can agree with you on this... So many said Rafa had to go before the end of last season...