EPL - Fulham vs Manchester United - Dec 19
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Originally posted by mrwonderful:
Utd today performance is really worst of the season.
Really is like no idea, not even a decent chance on goal.
Scholes was so lousy. The Utd defender marking Zamora really sucked. I think was de Laet. Zamora scored second goal and assisted 3rd one. If just had properly marked him could have avoided those.
Please give some credit to Fulham. They are very good team. Especially their aerial tatic is very effective. They are the only team capable of sieging Man Utd goal post in Old trafford. No other team in this season has able to do that.I am not surprise of Man Utd defeat to Fulham but what surprise me is the wide margin of 3 goals to nil.
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We don't deserve to win the title this year. Terrible performance! Terible tactics!
Ever since Carlos Queroz left United, this club performance and momentum has retarded. Nani and Anderson development is stunted and the free-flowing tactics are all gone. At least last season, we had a strong back four and a certain Special Player to drag us a point or three when we needed it. He took pressure away from other players because teams had to double or triple mark him and now he has gone we see the quality of what is left. This together with poor tactics makes us look like a bunch of weak players with no creativity,
I can understand us conceding 3 goals due to this injury crisis but to not have a single decent chance in 90min despite having wide spell of possession tells us something.
TK - Had a decent game. I can't fault him for the goals as they were sloppy errors. Keep out a blinder as well.
No idea why we played a strange 3 man defence. I would have played fabio and evra as full backs with De Laet and Carrick as CB leaving Flecther free to be in CM to stop Fulham's attack.
Carrick - Decent game. Did well against an impressive Zamora.
De Laet - Delayed???
Flecther - Decent game.
Midfield -
Gibson - Terrible player. He has no vision or creativity or pace. The onyl reason why he is playing is because of the crisis. A good shot at goal but thats about him. Mid Table player at best.
Anderson - 3 years and counting...
Scholes - A legend. Thats why he should be...but instead he is still playing...A good player but keep him only for slower CL games..
Valencia - A decent game but looked uncertain in the new formation.
Evra - Looked uncertain. Caught out on the left numerous times.
Striker -
Owen - A poacher. If there is no service, he won't shine.
Rooney - The most over-rated player in the EPL. Trying to hard to be a Ronaldo when he should first learn to do the simple 5 yards passes and score a little more....c'mon you had such great potential...
Berbatov - The only player in that match with creativity and vision to split their defence. Should have started instead of Rooney or Owen.
In conclusion, we should have immediately made our substitutions in the 2H especially when we were 2-0 down. I have no idea what 1H Fergie was watching but if we gave them 3 hours to play, I doubt they would score either. Should have taken out Gibson for Obertan and Owen for Berbatov and Fabio for Scholes and reverted back to 4-4-2.
We will get through this...on paper we are a good team but the Management and Coach can't devise a way to gel them.
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Originally posted by grandmaster89:
We don't deserve to win the title this year. Terrible performance! Terible tactics!
Ever since Carlos Queroz left United, this club performance and momentum has retarded. Nani and Anderson development is stunted and the free-flowing tactics are all gone. At least last season, we had a strong back four and a certain Special Player to drag us a point or three when we needed it. He took pressure away from other players because teams had to double or triple mark him and now he has gone we see the quality of what is left. This together with poor tactics makes us look like a bunch of weak players with no creativity,
I can understand us conceding 3 goals due to this injury crisis but to not have a single decent chance in 90min despite having wide spell of possession tells us something.
TK - Had a decent game. I can't fault him for the goals as they were sloppy errors. Keep out a blinder as well.
No idea why we played a strange 3 man defence. I would have played fabio and evra as full backs with De Laet and Carrick as CB leaving Flecther free to be in CM to stop Fulham's attack.
Carrick - Decent game. Did well against an impressive Zamora.
De Laet - Delayed???
Flecther - Decent game.
Midfield -
Gibson - Terrible player. He has no vision or creativity or pace. The onyl reason why he is playing is because of the crisis. A good shot at goal but thats about him. Mid Table player at best.
Anderson - 3 years and counting...
Scholes - A legend. Thats why he should be...but instead he is still playing...A good player but keep him only for slower CL games..
Valencia - A decent game but looked uncertain in the new formation.
Evra - Looked uncertain. Caught out on the left numerous times.
Striker -
Owen - A poacher. If there is no service, he won't shine.
Rooney - The most over-rated player in the EPL. Trying to hard to be a Ronaldo when he should first learn to do the simple 5 yards passes and score a little more....c'mon you had such great potential...
Berbatov - The only player in that match with creativity and vision to split their defence. Should have started instead of Rooney or Owen.
In conclusion, we should have immediately made our substitutions in the 2H especially when we were 2-0 down. I have no idea what 1H Fergie was watching but if we gave them 3 hours to play, I doubt they would score either. Should have taken out Gibson for Obertan and Owen for Berbatov and Fabio for Scholes and reverted back to 4-4-2.
We will get through this...on paper we are a good team but the Management and Coach can't devise a way to gel them.
Simply means they were over reliant on CR7 last 2 seasons. I started watching halfway through 1st half, imo man utd were really terrible today. -
Originally posted by brokenluv:
Simply means they were over reliant on CR7 last 2 seasons. I started watching halfway through 1st half, imo man utd were really terrible today.Last season they were playing terribly. Manu stopped playing like a team after Carlos Querioz left (the season where we won both EPL and CL). Last season, we started playing to Ronaldo's strength with him as our conductor. The free-flowing football deserted us but it was papered over by individual talents like Ronaldo, Vidic, Rio and VDS. The latter trio contributed to a very mean defence while the former kept our opponents fearful of us.
With both our defence and main star player gone, United reverts back to the pathetic team it was - only without individual sparks. We are not playing like a team, we are not playing free-flowing football, we don't have creative attacking talent (besides Ryan Giggs) and our lack of world class players (besides 1st team defenders and Giggs) will prevent us from winning any titles this season. Hell, I have a feeling Leeds and City will knock us out of the Cups...
1) Get a real tactician to be Fergie Ast Manager. We don't need a Yes-Man Phelan.2) Get a REAL striker and attacking midfielder in Anderson can't step up.
3) Start playing Nani or Orbetan on the wings and leave Park on the bench.
4) Stick to 4-4-2! Our players ain't creative enough and our holding midfielders lack the bite to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1
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United need a new creative midfielder. they have 2 destroyers in hargreaves and fletcher already. anderson is still trying to find consistency in his play and carrick yet to play well this season.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
United need a new creative midfielder. they have 2 destroyers in hargreaves and fletcher already. anderson is still trying to find consistency in his play and carrick yet to play well this season.
Rooney is a useless striker for United this season. I wonder how would he fare as an Attacking Midfielder. He is no World Class Striker as the English press protrays him to be but he is a World Class Battler and Troubler for Defenders.
Rooney and Berbatov are both striking flops for united. Close to 60mil pounds of waste there! It says alot when Zomora has more chances than Rooney in this game. Been playing terribly this whole season. I used to think that he played badly because Fergie was keeping him on the Left-Wing to accomodate Ronaldo but now I think he may have been playing badly for years. His development had retarded since our second title. Again, I blame that on the departure of Carlos Queroz.
Rooney needs to play off someone or to be part of mobile and free rotating trio strike force like in the first season (ronaldo, rooney and tevez).
Berbatov needs a Robbie Keane to shine. He has the brains but Rooney isn't using his skills and vision to benefit the play. They have no partneship at all.
Both are not using each other!
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I hope SAF finally realise that he need either a cdm or a pure center back. start buying defenders,not attackers. cannot always depend on rio and vidic.
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I always think Rooney sucks on the wing. Bad lost, great win for Fulham.
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Man U should buy some defenders like: Sol Campell and some Inter Milan defenders to overcome the shortage of players.
But Fulham showed what they are last season (by clinching Europa League spot) and performance at Basel to send them to last 32 of Europa League campaign.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
United need a new creative midfielder. they have 2 destroyers in hargreaves and fletcher already. anderson is still trying to find consistency in his play and carrick yet to play well this season.
But most of the wins Man U had obtained, the midfielders like: Valencia and Fletcher were on the scoresheet. Unlike the strikers (besides Rooney), I never saw them on the scoresheet already. So, Man U would mostly rely on midfield in order to overcome the crisis which they are faceing.Hope can do so. Now, the number of defeats currently are equiliant to the loss they had done 2 seasons ago. Just hope that Man U WON'T lose any of the BPL matches till the season ends in a tense BPL.
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Originally posted by CannyOng:
Please give some credit to Fulham. They are very good team. Especially their aerial tatic is very effective. They are the only team capable of sieging Man Utd goal post in Old trafford. No other team in this season has able to do that.I am not surprise of Man Utd defeat to Fulham but what surprise me is the wide margin of 3 goals to nil.
Of course Fulham played well. Zamora was key, always winning all the balls. He was the key man for Fulham. Their defence also solid, looked like the best in the EPLAnyway I am not a Man Utd supporter.
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I think fergie got his tactics wrong.
The first half clearly shows that United are lacking power on the left and centre of the field, what did Fergie do in the 2nd half? Nothing! Nothing till the 2nd goal is conceded which is game over by then.
Send on Fabio for De Laet? Berbatov for Gibson? Yes, i agree that Konchesky is on form yesterday, Valencia cannot get a decent cross in the whole game and Fergie sent on Fabio to curb this problem but what about the left? Pantsil looks shaky and he didn't notice? I would say Fabio on for Gibson, Evra remain left, De Laet and Carrick Centre and Fabio right. Push Fletcher to the middle to win some ball back. Send on Obertan for Scholes whom i think is so terribly off form last night. Again, Fergie chose to stick to his old guard in a failed gamble. Sub off Owen! He looks like a lost sheep last night! Cant link up with any of his team mates at all! All of Rooney's layoff and the crosses in are either missed or miscontrolled by Owen. Get Berbatov on for Owen! At least Berba can shield the ball but what can Owen do? Run around like headless chicken.
But credit to Fulham, they taught United and Fergie a good lesson. Oh yea, and wtf is Evra the captain? He doesnt even speak much to push his team on and left his position wide open in alot of occasion?
The january transfer window is opening and in my opinion, United should first get a loan signing of a decent defender, retire Neville (yes, i still hate him, he suck, cant defend and always so unsportsmanlike, loser!) and bloody sign one world-class winger. Sell Nani please, while he's still worth something.
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worst man utd match i ever seen....simply lackluster!
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ALEX FERGUSON'S men were Duffed up as their title challenge was rocked at Craven Cottage.
Fulham took the lead after just 22 minutes through Danny Murphy to leave United's makeshift defence reeling.
Bobby Zamora doubled the advantage a minute after the break and Damien Duff wrapped up the victory with a glorious left-foot volley 15 minutes from time.
Crippled by injuries, Ferguson had no choice but to play Ritchie de Laet alongside Michael Carrick at the heart of his defence.
But the inexperienced pairing could not handle the threat posed by Zamora and Clint Dempsey.
And it was little surprise to see Fulham inflict the champions' fifth defeat of the season — opening the door for Chelsea to pull further away at the top of the table.
As early as the 17th minute, the Cottagers looked capable of breaking the deadlock thanks to a wonderful move started by Dempsey.
The American floated in a long pass to Zamora who expertly chested the ball down into the path of Zoltan Gera, only for the Hungarian to shoot too close to Tomasz Kuszczak.
Fulham only had to wait until the 22nd minute to storm into the lead.
Darren Fletcher passed to Paul Scholes but the former England midfielder was too slow in reacting, allowing Murphy to snatch the ball from his feet and fire a 30-yard effort into the net.
Zamora should have made it 2-0 but nodded Gera's precision cross wide from six yards out after outjumping Fletcher.
United's problems deepened a minute into the second half when their patched-up defence was unpicked once more.
Duff supplied the cross to the far post where Dempsey was able to deflect the ball into the path of Zamora, who rifled home from close range.
In desperate need of inspiration, a lacklustre United threw on Dimitar Berbatov for Darron Gibson and switched to a three-pronged strike force.
Needing a third goal to kill off United, who were showing tentative signs of a fightback, Duff obliged in the 75th minute.
The visitors failed to clear their lines, allowing the brilliant Zamora to set-up Duff to smash home from 15 yards.
Delirious Fulham fans chanted "We want four, we want four" and Zamora would have obliged had Kuszczak not made a superb late save.
Fulham: Schwarzer, Pantsil, Hughes, Hangeland, Konchesky, Duff (Greening 76), Murphy (Dikgacoi 80), Baird, Gera, Dempsey, Zamora (Nevland 90). Subs Not Used: Zuberbuhler, Riise, Etuhu, Smalling. Goals: Murphy 22, Zamora 46, Duff 75.
Man Utd: Kuszczak, Fletcher, De Laet (Fabio Da Silva 58), Carrick, Evra, Valencia, Scholes, Anderson, Gibson (Berbatov 58), Owen (Welbeck 72), Rooney. Subs Not Used: Foster, Park, Tosic, Obertan. Booked: Scholes.
Att: 25,700
Ref: Howard Webb (S Yorkshire).
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the first goal was a bad goal to give away, when scholes was dispossed by murphy just outside the penalty box. commentator was saying scholes rarely loses the ball, but I disagreed. in every match he plays, he loses the ball on more than one occassion and often pass the ball to the opponent. The commentator was being polite in saying he rarely loses the ball.
back to the match, even if HT was still 0-0, united still cant threaten fulham and I doubt united is able to score a goal, let alone win the match. I believe the first goal deflated them and they have to come out in the second half looking to attack, but it was not to be. they came out and then conceded a goal a mere 19 seconds later and game over.
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Rooney is regressing. A massive United Flop in the making! Only 12 goals (4 penalties) in 7 odd matches despite half way through the season!
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united is in danger of not holding on to second spot even, esp when arsenal and villa are coming on very strongly. i specially fancy villa to clinch the 4th spot this season.
if the defensive crisis still continue, then united may dropped to 4th or even 5th by the time the defenders are ready for action in January.
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Fletcher passed to Scholes but the former England midfielder was too slow in reacting, allowing Murphy to snatch the ball from his feet and fire a 30-yard effort into the net.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
united is in danger of not holding on to second spot even, esp when arsenal and villa are coming on very strongly. i specially fancy villa to clinch the 4th spot this season.
if the defensive crisis still continue, then united may dropped to 4th or even 5th by the time the defenders are ready for action in January.
come on, give the boys some credit.
looking @ our injury crisis, they are trying their best to bridge..
and given how the league is structured and how teams are struggling, it is not really that bad. Yes, teams may catch up, but at what perils.. imagine MU getting some 5-7 or more fresh players coming back, they will propel the team.
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Originally posted by grandmaster89:
Rooney is a useless striker for United this season. I wonder how would he fare as an Attacking Midfielder. He is no World Class Striker as the English press protrays him to be but he is a World Class Battler and Troubler for Defenders.
Rooney and Berbatov are both striking flops for united. Close to 60mil pounds of waste there! It says alot when Zomora has more chances than Rooney in this game. Been playing terribly this whole season. I used to think that he played badly because Fergie was keeping him on the Left-Wing to accomodate Ronaldo but now I think he may have been playing badly for years. His development had retarded since our second title. Again, I blame that on the departure of Carlos Queroz.
Rooney needs to play off someone or to be part of mobile and free rotating trio strike force like in the first season (ronaldo, rooney and tevez).
Berbatov needs a Robbie Keane to shine. He has the brains but Rooney isn't using his skills and vision to benefit the play. They have no partneship at all.
Both are not using each other!
come on, give them some slag.
Zomora got more chances... any ditwit will compare the quality of the players he is up against vs the ones Rooney is up against.
Fulham is no pushover, they have gel as an unit, and MU coming in with their worst defensive crisis. U expect a stroll in the park??
Ask any Reds, and none will take Zomora over Rooney, trust me. Yes, Berba is not showing what a 30M striker should do, but hey, what else but to hang on, and hope the two gel. U can't just write off like a Veron or Forlan. Or maybe, he can be sold to get Villa or etc.
Do note, we lost our top scorer/player, and our hardest working striker in one go, that's like Chelsea losing Drogba or Pool losing Torres, but MU is still 2nd, and they are working their butts off.
Yes, things may look bleak, but do U trust SAF?
who's better than the wily old fox to guide MU back with his experiences?
No one is running away with the title at the moment, and MU got some time before the next UCL. It is not good to have this blip, but given it is happening now, than later, when the real, title charge could be, it is the best of the worst.
If U believe, nothing needed, if U don't, nothing suffice.
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some fans have to jus wake up their ideas...one defeat due to a major injury crisis and ppl are calling for fergie's head?
Being harsh on one of our most decorated and loyal players in paul scholes?Yes he lost the ball..But who else don't make mistakes...ppl say why fergie keep playing scholes,then tell me who can spread the ball better than him currently in the united set up.?NO!..carrick don't even come close.This guy is on a slide..
We don't even understand the difficulties that the team is facing...jus look forward to the next game and back them to come back strongly..!
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Nobody is calling for SAF head since it isn't his fault (except for the stupid tactics in the past month). Its the stupid Glazers and our coaching.
1) We lost Ronaldo (our talisman) and we replace him with a 3mil boy from France and a good (but not world class) winger from Wigan and a free past-it striker called Owen. I think its simply the fact that our huge debts is crushing our Club. Fergie doesn't have $$$ anymoer to splurge on players. Then again, considering the huge cash outflow on Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves and Berbatov - Nearly 80mil...I also would be scared to give SAF $$$ to spend.
2) Our strikers are not scoring. Rooney is becoming a flop. I would take a drogba, torres or VPS anyday over Rooney. Berbatov is an excellent player but Rooney and Owen is not using his vision thus rendering him ineffective.
3) Our young players development has been retarded. Nani and Anderson were hailed to be future world class players. Both shone in the U-17 tournaments. But ever since, they have come to United, both are being played out of position resulting in shaky performance. Anderson is a ATTACKING MIDFIELDER not a holding mf and nani is a RIGHT WINGER not a left winger!!!!
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Originally posted by F.raon.I.R:
some fans have to jus wake up their ideas...one defeat due to a major injury crisis and ppl are calling for fergie's head?
Being harsh on one of our most decorated and loyal players in paul scholes?Yes he lost the ball..But who else don't make mistakes...ppl say why fergie keep playing scholes,then tell me who can spread the ball better than him currently in the united set up.?NO!..carrick don't even come close.This guy is on a slide..
We don't even understand the difficulties that the team is facing...jus look forward to the next game and back them to come back strongly..!
I understand why we concede 3 goals - defensive crisis.
I dont understand why we cannot get a decent chance (less than 5 shots on goal) in the entire 90min of play. There isn't any attacking injury crisis is there? Didn't we play Valencia, Scholes, Anderson, Rooney and our beloved Owen (joined by Berbatov and Welbeck later)?
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People have to realised that its a team sport... When one area is badly hit, it effect the others as well. Its not like just because the defence is in trouble the other department should be fine... If the defence can't cope with the opponent, it effects the midfield and the attackers from playing their usual game as well... Confidence is lost during this time and opponents are also encourage to go beyond their usual self.
We don't have to say much that not having the defenders right this moment is causing the drop of points... Even without a first choice keeper will effect the whole squad even with all the 1st choice defenders in place...
Its silly to even consider blaming Fergie for it... If anything, we should be pleased the team is still trying to survive this never before seen period... The first choice defenders are all injured... Even the sub defenders are injured which is rather unusual...
In my years as a United fan, i have never seen them having to play so many midfielders and even youth players in defence at the same time for a prolong period... Don't say its one player or two who are out of position. In the past few matches, we have seen midfielders like Giggs, Fletcher, Carrick, Gibson as defenders... And youngster like De Laet playing centre-back roles... And if this isn't enough, even the first choice keeper is out...
If United can survive this period... They can be champions again. But if they can't, then we have to accept that this was the moment they lost it... and not blame Fergie.
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if defensive crisis extended to february, then even top 4 placing might be in jeopardy.