Is Macbook worth buying to run WinXP?
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Originally posted by Raraken:
Stability of Windows in the long run: I'd say Apple. Not to be bashing Apple, but Macs were meant to run OSX, and even though you might have installed the drivers using the OS X DVD, quite a few problems probably will occur, seeing as the components were built for OSX. For example, I have heard reports of MBP users unable to use their dedicated video card in Windows, and the Hardware automatically used their integrated solutions instead. Sometimes, the Wireless adapter isn't recognised, even with the drivers.Or maybe it just plain crashes. Some have reported overheating in their Macs, not surprisingly an Apple-only chip. There are many problems, and you better hope, its not you.
Well sure, performance won't really be optimal after a few months, but with enough know-how, you can keep it up there somewhere.
And yes, though cost is a factor, usually its the bugs that keep users from getting Windows to run on a Mac. Isn't that the reason why most Mac users got their Macs for? I would still not recommend Boot Camp unless it is a must. Windows can run on a Mac, and vice versa, but both implementations are buggy as hell.
So my opinion is: It's up to you. Do you really need Windows, or is there an alternative to Boot Camping your Mac?
Raraken is right but before anybody misconstrues it again, google and see the full picture of possible problems. With every subsequent Windows update/patch or Bootcamp version, or even VMware enhancement, the compatibility issues can widen.
Fun Fact: It takes Apple longer to acknowledge a flaw exists in their products than it takes Microsoft to release a new OS. (iBook series flaws)
Ahhh... u mean the class action suits regarding poor manufacturing quality, overheating or the poor screen quality?
For something really fun, look at:
The advertising battle in the US -
http://www.engadget.com/tag/laptophunters
The reaction and commentaries -
http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/marketing/microsoft_shatters_mac_pricing_myths.html
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Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:
To summarize everything, habits and other stuffs that's present naturally in you will move you to do something, no matter how daunting it seems.
Its a want, not a need, if thats what you mean. But this is why I feel this is a very important thread. There are many who are fooled by cunning marketing - which drives the want factor.
If parn can run a Mac + Windows in a Mac without much reading of the manual, then good for her (? your gender I'm not sure).
Its not the reading of manuals, its the problems that will come later (eventually?) with updates and patches. At the enterprise level, all patches and updates are tested vigorously on development/test servers before being applied to production/live servers. With consumer computers, you apply them first and think (regret?) later. Windows on Mac exposes one to higher than normal risk of driver-OS-hardware conflicts.
Nothing much to argue here.
Plenty to clarify here.
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Originally posted by SexyChin:
stability of windows in the long run, is it apple's fault or microsoft's fault?Myth 1 - Blaming OS for everything
Neither, it is the fault of your ignorance. You're a typical user blaming the OS cos you're unable to understand how software in general and OS in particular work. When you can't troubleshoot, blame the OS right? Hell you are installing OS onto the hardware of its sworn enemy and you want to find a scape goat? Don't be so simplistic, blame yourself!hack running windows on a mac, let's say running windows on a pc, i don't think you can have optimal performance after a few months of usage.
Myth 2 - Windows stability
Again, ur ignorance shows through. Not very good with Windows are you? But nevertheless trying to give advice here?
Windows systems are perfectly stable in the long run, that's why 90% of computer users, and nearly all of China's 120-150million users, the largest internet country in the world, and all corporate fleet orders I know are on Windows. Its the minority idiots who dunno what they are doing who whine and complain and then blame it on everything else and/or jump ship. Empty vessels make the most noise geddit? Why is somebody obviously not qualified to comment (cos you obviously struggle with Windows), dishing out comments?
Why is it that I once had a lappie that ran Win 98 for more than 3 yrs WITHOUT once having to reformat and re-install? Ppl used to say u hv to do so every year or so. In the 4th year, I doubled the RAM to 256MB and then installed XP over the Win 98 using the upgrade option. Despite wise arses' conventional wisdom saying you have to reformat the harddisk and install XP on a clean harddisk, it ran for another couple of years, including ghosting the entire XP partition from the old 6GB harddisk to a 20GB one.
On my current lappie, NOW , I have 4 x Firefox windows open, (20 Firefox extensions installed) with a total of 37 tabs, plus Windows internet explorer (1 window and 2 tabs), Live Messenger, 3 Windows explorers, 1 x xplorer² lite, Open office full suite, 4 x Word docs, Outlook, PDF-Exchange Viewer with 5 PDFs, Ditto, IDM, IObit, Mozyhome, Secunia, AVG, InCD etc on the sys tray, all running for a week now using only hibernation when away?
& I'm actually a high risk user cos I install/uninstall all sorts of beta software and freeware/shareware all the time - stuff that are notoriously buggy. That's why such (in fact all) software have disclaimers and their version release notes specify the inherent flaws and bugs they address/rectify. Nobody blames the developer - it comes with the territory. Notice how the developers never blame the OS too - that's the domain of the ignorant user.
Wow, I must have a higher IQ than you or something to make all that work? Much as that is a tempting thought, overwhelming evidence shows that people with Windows problems or people with such perceptions often choose to remain ignorant, that's all.
If you have any PC problem, what makes you think you are the only one doing something wrong? Thousands would have encountered it before, realised the problem (often due to their own mistakes/actions) and SOLVED it already.
If you have any issues with a PC, u dun even need to visit technical websites nowadays with the number of blogs that have sprung up. All u need is to read basic tips, download simple freeware to run (see my list for a start, though there are much more) and develop good, safe, sensible habits when online.
Understand the power of the Windows community and platform. Because there are so many users, developers would always rather develop software for it than Mac.That's why 10 yrs ago, there were hardly any virus for Macs, cos there weren't as many computer users, so Windows users were the only meaningful demographic to target - minimum effort for maximum reach kinda logic. Not because Mac was any better, even though its based on Unix. That's why hackers target UNIX server vulnerabilities, cos they are typically high value assets, not because UNIX is crap. That's why Unix servers are usually highly protected by firewalls, IDS, & subjected to security audits too despite being robust in nature. All OS hv to release patches for vulnerabilities and version updates as a result, its a cat and mouse game.
U'd be busy enjoying the benefits of the Windows platform - Limitless software to download and run, limitless hardware components to try pushing thetechnical envelope, if you weren't complaining so much.
Dun believe? I can even teach you how to buy a lappie with its OEM Windows (and indeed this applies to Windows Pocket PC too) and NEVER have to spend a single cent on software again - by using freeware alone. Without ever resorting to pirated software or jailbreaking crap too. Try doing that on a Mac.
Myth 3 - Costand regarding me not recommending using windows on a mac. i did not recommend it due to obvious costs reasons. it is obviously not WORTH it to buy, considering just costs alone, to just run windows on a mac.
Your ignorance shows in the fact that you only see the cost issue. Anybody qualified to give advice regarding this matter can smell the possible problems from miles away.
See also my reply to Raraken - its fun stuff
http://www.engadget.com/tag/laptophuntersalso, i just wanted to change your warped idea that windows in simply unrunnable on a mac and somehow virtualization is somehow faster than running natively.
Myth 4 - Factors in OS stability
The fact that you are not very good with Windows nor know much about software and OS in particular explains why you keep hiding behind the native or non-native crap, cos its easily repeatable marketing crap.
I've always emphasized stable implementation, cos speed is unattainable unless u achieve stability first. VMware is robust enterprise level stuff and I've seen it run stable and fast, even to run games, that's why I mentioned it. Though I stated all the caveats and my reservations still.
Native is IRRELEVANT. Its driver compatibility G.E.D.D.I.T.? You think native means speed? You think Bootcamp just let's u choose partition of OS to run and that's it? Ridiculous! It has to supply all the drivers for Windows to run the Mac hardware, cos Apple's history and ethos is such that it never reveals its hardware details to others, certainly not to Microsoft to incorporate into Windows.
Do I need to give you a history lesson on Apple's fall from grace in the 80s?
In the 80s, nobody dared to take on the challenge of making an OS work with ALL hardware manufacturers and their dodgy drivers. Only Bill Gates dared to. IBM wasn't stupid, just that they were aware of the scope and passed the buck (literally) and sold it to Microsoft.
Bill Gates is often painted as satan in disguise or the one with the smallish flaccid dick (Microsoft get it?). But the truth is that old Bill understood what Steve Jobs didn't in the 80s - the concept of specialisation. Something all business schools and textbooks now preach. Sadly many Apple fans, including iPhone fans, still dun understand this concept in the 21st century.
Apple took the easy (and greedy) approach of saying that only they have the divine right to make both the hardware and software for computers. & that's how Apple fell from grace. Its not my opinion or yours, check the historical stock market indices for the facts. In the early-Mid 80s, Apple were the leaders by virtue of their 1st mover advantage but they blew it with their greedy mantra - Steve Jobs decided that only Apple can make hardware and OS. All manufacturers had to subcontract their products to Apple and let Apple put their logo on the hardware.
That's why he got ousted from the Apple board when they lost the plot in terms of market share.
The entire PC industry said bollocks to Apple and went with Microsoft which not only will not compete with them on hardware but also promised to make Windows compatible with their hardware. That's how you got best of breed players in the IT industry that we have today. That’s how Dell, HP, IBM et al each became many times bigger than Apple. Thats how Creative came about geddit?
That's why most of the time with Win XP, you don't even need to install any drivers when you connect hardware to it - its got generic drivers built in to run natively (since you like the word so much). Even now, Apple will never provide its drivers to its enemy, Microsoft, cos it must make all hardware itself geddit? Why bother, so that Microsoft can sell more Windows? Hence it requires that Bootcamp be its representative middleman to do it.But how much commitment do you think Apple has? You think they will maintain an entire division of engineers to ensure that Bootcamp is always updated and compatibile with the enemy's OS after every Patch Tuesday when Microsoft releases patches and updates? You think Apple has the means or inclination to reverse engineer Windows to make sure Bootcamp is any good? Michael Dell can just shake hands with Bill Gates and you will have an iron clad corporate will to ensure all Dell hardware and Windows are interoperable.
Similarly, why would Microsoft bother to find out what drivers Mac hardware needs? Mac needs Windows users, but Microsoft doesn't need Mac sales.Imagine the comedy when you encounter problems running Windows on Mac hardware. You have problems, call Microsoft tech support. The tech guy will probably fall off his chair laughing before saying, sorry, its Mac's problem.
Then you call Mac and they will tell you its Windows' problem, then give you the standard line that Mac OS is better. Incidentally, note one of the pet peeves of Mac users during the PowerPC era. Everytime Mac users wanted to upgrade their older machines to newer OS, Mac tech support and sales staff will always give the standard canned message - "I dunno whether G3s will run well with Leopard, or Pussy or watever, but if you buy the latest G4, it will be good with the latest OS".
But that's the risk with ALL OS upgrades. U need commitment from all parties.
Ask Linux users, the most technically inclined demographic, running Ubuntu, Redhat, FreeBSD etc. on Intel machines or even to dual boot, you will see it too. The devil is with the drivers G.E.D.D.I.T? That's why Linux struggles for market share. They do not have the volume nor central authority for software certification and testing that Microsoft does so well with.
Perversely, the whole Vista problem also illustrates the flip side of the coin - hardware manufacturers couldn't be bothered to update their drivers quickly. Hint: Its about economic realities. Driver development/upgrading is cost, they'd rather you buy new hardware with Vista drivers, which is profit.
If a piece of software is buggy, it can be shut down or uninstalled. But when the driver is buggy and there is driver-OS-hardware conflicts, it is perpetual from the moment you power on. Its game over G.E.D.D.I.T? How to tweak the registry or mod the driver when you'd have to reverse engineer the silicon chips and printed circuit boards of each hardware component to know how it works?
VMware is robust, feature packed and offers incredible possibilities, but you can only harp perceived speed? It can run Mac, Linux, Windows, Unix etc. what do you know about its possibilities when you do not understand the OS-driver-hardware complexity?Check all the problems running Windows on Bootcamp, ultimately a middleware, b4 you make irresponsible comments.
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
Dude, ALL the stuff that are used in a Mac are the same stuff that are used in a PC. You can also install Mac OS X in your PC if you know how. There's no such thing as an Apple-only chip.
Fun Fact: Vista. 'Nuff said.
I can list a few Apple-only Intel chips. Plus, I do have a 'Hackbook Pro', and I have assisted some of my friends with their Boot Camp installs (1 iMac, 2 Aluminium MacBooks) and the iMac and 1 MacBook both had problems and compatibility issues, with XP SP3, Vista SP1 and/or the Win 7 RC1. The iMac had an E81XX CPU, rated at 2.4GHz according to the Mac, but CPU-Z and Task Manager reported 1 active core.
Where the hell did the other core go? We gave up trying to solve the problem, and as usual, Apple support was no help, telling us to contact Microsoft. The Microsoft support dude tried to help us, even though we told him it was an iMac. No fix there.
The MacBook display stuck itself at 800x600, even with the Apple-supplied drivers (Which, according to Apple themselves, should be used for maximum stability), and the DVD drive wouldn't eject the disks. Add to that the USB ports not working properly (USB 1.0 speeds, or not detected at all), and you have a headache.
Oh, and the Apple-only chips may have 2 different speeds for the same model. Is it Intel's doing or Apple's? You might have been cheated XD.
Fun fact: Lots of people don't know what the hell they are talking about. when they have no hands-on experience.
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Plenty to clarify here.
None to clarify since all the posts here are the personal views of everyone's.
No point saying much if TS has decided. TS shall report problems if there's any.
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Originally posted by Raraken:
I can list a few Apple-only Intel chips. Plus, I do have a 'Hackbook Pro', and I have assisted some of my friends with their Boot Camp installs (1 iMac, 2 Aluminium MacBooks) and the iMac and 1 MacBook both had problems and compatibility issues, with XP SP3, Vista SP1 and/or the Win 7 RC1. The iMac had an E81XX CPU, rated at 2.4GHz according to the Mac, but CPU-Z and Task Manager reported 1 active core.
Where the hell did the other core go? We gave up trying to solve the problem, and as usual, Apple support was no help, telling us to contact Microsoft. The Microsoft support dude tried to help us, even though we told him it was an iMac. No fix there.
The MacBook display stuck itself at 800x600, even with the Apple-supplied drivers (Which, according to Apple themselves, should be used for maximum stability), and the DVD drive wouldn't eject the disks. Add to that the USB ports not working properly (USB 1.0 speeds, or not detected at all), and you have a headache.
Oh, and the Apple-only chips may have 2 different speeds for the same model. Is it Intel's doing or Apple's? You might have been cheated XD.
Fun fact: Lots of people don't know what the hell they are talking about. when they have no hands-on experience.
I may not have much hands on experience, but I do use both OSes on the same computer, and they both work fine for me. And of course you wouldn't be able to get any help from either side, it's like modding your Xbox and then asking the company of the pirated CDs you play and Microsoft why your programs don't work.
The Apple-only chips you are probably thinking of may have been developed by Intel specifically for Apple's MacBook Air? That's the only one I can think of, but have yet to try installing MS on that. What are the problems associated with this?
For the bugs that you have regarding installing both Vista and Leopard on the same computer, it has been reported countless times and a simple solution would be just to use the Disk Utility. Never had that problem before with the display though, how do you get the problem?
Fun Fact: Just because you know how to install Bootcamp doesn't mean everyone else doesn't know.
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
I may not have much hands on experience, but I do use both OSes on the same computer, and they both work fine for me. And of course you wouldn't be able to get any help from either side, it's like modding your Xbox and then asking the company of the pirated CDs you play and Microsoft why your programs don't work.
The Apple-only chips you are probably thinking of may have been developed by Intel specifically for Apple's MacBook Air? That's the only one I can think of, but have yet to try installing MS on that. What are the problems associated with this?
For the bugs that you have regarding installing both Vista and Leopard on the same computer, it has been reported countless times and a simple solution would be just to use the Disk Utility. Never had that problem before with the display though, how do you get the problem?
Fun Fact: Just because you know how to install Bootcamp doesn't mean everyone else doesn't know.
The Apple-only chips are some of the the E8XX5 series, and some mobile T-series (though I think it's just that some manufacturers don't want to use some of the T-series, like the T9900).
Well, for the support side, yes, but isn't it APPLE'S duty to help and to render any assistance required should any problems arise due to a function THEY included? Sounds like Boot Camp is a marketing ploy to get people to buy Macs, since they think, "Hey, I can run Windows on a Mac. Sweet!" and then Boot Camp doesn't work as expected.
The chips used on the Air are similar to the ones being used on the Acer Timelines. SU9XXX and SL9XXX CPUs. A problem I encountered on the E8135 iMac was that a core was somehow disabled on Windows, but not in OS X. Really odd.
The display problem was probably due to the chipset glitch or something. Disk Utility WAS used, and so were some other partitioning S/W (Gparted, Acronis, Easeus, and to varying degrees of success. None fully working though). I'm not sure if using
Just because you know how to use Boot Camp, doesn't mean you know how to fix problems. Hands-on with the problem itself is still the best way.
You mentioned running both OS X and Windows. On a Mac, or on a Hackintosh?
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Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:
None to clarify since all the posts here are the personal views of everyone's.
No point saying much if TS has decided. TS shall report problems if there's any.
There is so much crap and misinformation here and you can't see it? Mebbe this thread ain't your forte? The TS wants advice before buying and by the time she reports the problem that's too late, dun you think?
There are views and opinions - only if it is non-verifiable - & then there are facts, historical and empirical. Then there is professional experience. I challenge anybody to post facts and figures or to post anything to dispute what's been posted here. What's the point of a forum if fallacies are not challenged and corrected immediately? That's how u learn. Else its a forum not worth visiting.
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Originally posted by ThunderFbolt:
Dude, ALL the stuff that are used in a Mac are the same stuff that are used in a PC. There's no such thing as an Apple-only chip.
Goodness sakes, its not the same! Even if you use similar chipsets, the drivers for the parts needed to run with Mac OS and to run Windows are totally different!
By your logic, then I should be able to install Linux on any of my PCs, use the same Windows drivers? Ask Linux users and u'll see!
The drivers needed by Macs and incorporated into Bootcamp are probably closer to Linux and Unix ones, but unlike open source or open license ones such as FreeBSD etc. which are openly reviewed, developed, released and published, nobody knows for sure what Mac does with them or will do with them tomorrow! Its their cultural ethos. I have no problems with it, that's their choice and they can prosper or die by it.
But this is Windows OS on Mac hardware! U're repeating the same fallacious mantra that is perpetuated by marketing brochures and ignorant/irresponsible fanboys repeating them ad nauseum.
You can also install Mac OS X in your PC if you know how.
That's so simplistic a sweeping statement! You make it sound like anybody should do it!
Running Hackintosh on PCs is one of the most demanding things to do and not worth it cost-benefit wise. Compared to just driver issues to debug running Windows on Mac hardware, you have so much more code to pore through (the entire Mac OS). Each time you want to add/change hardware, you gotta rehack the entire OS? Why create a Bootcamp for Windows hardware, when Windows already has the most comprehensive set of drivers built in on the planet.
It defeats the whole purpose/benefit anyway - using Mac OS. If u're so desperate to use it, u'd pay the premium and get Mac hardware already, rather than investing so much time and effort on hacking the OS.
The whole purpose of people being so desperate to use Windows is because of the endless software and hardware possibilities - versatility and cost effectiveness - the the benefit test is easily made out.
That's why the no. of folks doing hackintoshing is really few, extremely technical and mainly hobbyists.
Fun Fact: Vista. 'Nuff said.
Fun fact: Know what Vista is good at and what its not meant for before you chime in.
If you get the drivers right, Vista is actually the best right now for certain high end tasks - like playing the latest high end software - typically virtual reality games. Microsoft wanted to push the boundaries of technical development - ActiveX for gaming etc. Which unfortunately, Mac cannot even aspire to reach.
That's why if you dun need the features (clearly you dun), you've always got Windows XP. I activated the Win XP option on my Vista license cos I didn't need Vista features (no time for games) and I've already modded my XP to near Vista capabilities. Vista is bloated - there's a reason why - but without going into the history of things again, that's cos they'd rather incorporate features and drivers IN CASE the ignorant user needs them. But that's for another day.
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Originally posted by Preternatural.stuff:
There is so much crap and misinformation here and you can't see it? Mebbe this thread ain't your forte? The TS wants advice before buying and by the time she reports the problem that's too late, dun you think?
There are views and opinions - only if it is non-verifiable - & then there are facts, historical and empirical. Then there is professional experience. I challenge anybody to post facts and figures or to post anything to dispute what's been posted here. What's the point of a forum if fallacies are not challenged and corrected immediately? That's how u learn. Else its a forum not worth visiting.
There is no crap and misinformation as far as I can see. If there is, I will correct it. Prime example is the XP licensing issue.
Or if there's anybody who insists on a certain fact, I will tell you to break that. You said earlier can install Windows on VMWare and run almost as well like it is on a real machine. I've told you that because acceleration is enabled in VMWare and the effects of disabling it.
There will definitely be people who will run into problems when running Mac + Windows. There will definitely be people who has no problems running Mac + Windows.
I don't see any point in arguing who's right or wrong. Whether or not something crashes, it's ultimately how you use it. I can crash Mac and Windows in a matter of minutes by doing stupid things to them. Just observe users do things and you will get some ideas to crash them.
I can tell you that everything here is verifiable with a Google search. Right terms used will lead you to the proof that you want. You want to prove that Mac + Windows can run smoothly, it's not hard. You want to prove that Mac + Windows can't run smoothly, it's not hard either.
On facts and figures:
Figures, or should I say statistics, can be twisted by an individual to support a certain opinion. Same for facts. However, it's twisted in another way. Known facts are used to explain certain behaviour of humans, which then leads to one recommending an action for or against it, which is happening in this thread.
Professional experience - Please elaborate and explain this. I have quite a few interpretations about this professional experience thingy and is not in a mood to type out everything on what I think.
I've yet to see any fallacy here, however, I'm seeing a lot of opinions here.
Missed this:
Surely you didn't google VMware just to find that paragraph to nitpick? Who says that it is crap if you turn off the acceleration, its whether a feature is supported or not and whether performance or stability is favoured. You're not doing the same thing blaming the OS layer again are you? Ever occurred to you that such crashes are due to the software not supported by VMware being buggy? Ever considered that it is no party's fault even cos it isn't within the normal design parameters?
LOL, I must be damn bored. I didn't Google for VMWare just to nitpick. It's a known fact. Do you use VMWare? If you don't, I'm not going to say much. Get real hands-on experience on VMWare first.
By the way, turning off VMWare's acceleration option, which in turn causes bad performance, it's not because of the OS. It's a problem of communication between both VMWare and the OS. Without this communication, performance is expected to take a hit.
Also, crashes are not due to VMWare being buggy until otherwise proven, but a case of programs being buggy or just some feature. Some programs have certain functions that detect a virtualization environment and will purposely cause problems to it, which can cause funny problems to both the host OS and virtual OS.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
Then why don't you just advise TS to buy a normal slim notebook and change the casing to a mac look alike then?I'm TS
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I'd suggest just getting a laptop than a mac. It's like wanting to buy a Ferrari and fitting it with a Toyota engine. I'm in the design field and most prefer a mac to do the job, but I prefer having an all-rounded machine for my needs, cheaper too.
But again, it's your choice and it's just my opinion, since it's within your budget and you like the design of a macbook/m.pro and want to use Windows on it, it's pretty stable if you're just doing basic stuff like office programs, surfing the net and whatever. I say go for it!
And to answer you question, regarding the worth to buy a mac to run WinXP. I'd say it's not worth it. You'd be wasting the extra cash.
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I'm just toying with the idea of using Windows XP Professional on a MacBook....not really looking at MacBook Pro cos I prefer the white casing over the metal one.
Please do not debate with Vista or Windows 7, I really hate using those two operating systems cos they are not user-friendly and maybe I have really gotten used to using Windows XP.
Really appreciate all your valuable feedbacks and inputs for my topic. But please do not quarrel over who has the best opinions because I believed you all only want to share your best opinions for me and all of you have the best opinions and will only provide your best opinions.
Thank you all.
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Originally posted by parn:
I'm just toying with the idea of using Windows XP Professional on a MacBook....not really looking at MacBook Pro cos I prefer the white casing over the metal one.
Please do not debate with Vista or Windows 7, I really hate using those two operating systems cos they are not user-friendly and maybe I have really gotten used to using Windows XP.
Really appreciate all your valuable feedbacks and inputs for my topic. But please do not quarrel over who has the best opinions because I believed you all only want to share your best opinions for me and all of you have the best opinions and will only provide your best opinions.
Thank you all.
Using Vista atm on my PC, but I still prefer WinXP. Even though I dislike Mac in general, between the Macbook and the Macbook Pro. The metal casing may also be a hindrance due to the fact it overheats easily. It can get really hot after long usage.
Again, if you want to bring worth into the picture, then it's still better to use a laptop with WinXP than a Mac.
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want to use windows, stick to a regular laptop
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Originally posted by kopiosatu:
want to use windows, stick to a regular laptop
Not true. I just got a Macbook Pro 15" 2.4GHz (Late '08 model) with 250GB HDD and 2GB DDR3 RAM @ $2,488 (usual price $2,788). I have to say it's a good deal.
I installed Windows XP Professional Edition on it using the Bootcamp utility and everything is working fine. It works just like any other PC/laptops running Windows. I did it simply because of my L4D and I have no problems playing it.
Loving my MBP now.
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Originally posted by alleggerita:
Not true. I just got a Macbook Pro 15" 2.4GHz (Late '08 model) with 250GB HDD and 2GB DDR3 RAM @ $2,488 (usual price $2,788). I have to say it's a good deal.
I installed Windows XP Professional Edition on it using the Bootcamp utility and everything is working fine. It works just like any other PC/laptops running Windows. I did it simply because of my L4D and I have no problems playing it.
Loving my MBP now.
a normal laptop costs way less
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Originally posted by kopiosatu:
a normal laptop costs way less
Agree.
However, if that's what you want to do, I've nothing to say. Thanks for helping the economy.
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buy Vaio....
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
buy Vaio….
oh man...speaking of VAIO...thought of all the problems it gave me till like 3 months ago...now thinking of which notebook to get next time...decided to turn away from Desktop..
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Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:
There is no crap and misinformation as far as I can see. If there is, I will correct it. Prime example is the XP licensing issue.
That's an insult to everyone else who's contributed something. Even the bad comments I see are useful WHEN corrected or argued comprehensively.
Like I said, obviously its not your forte. That's why you ONLY see a licensing issue and aren't capable of see anything else?? That's gotta be embarrassing...
Or if there's anybody who insists on a certain fact, I will tell you to break that. You said earlier can install Windows on VMWare and run almost as well like it is on a real machine. I've told you that because acceleration is enabled in VMWare and the effects of disabling it.
"can install Windows on VMWare and run almost as well like it is on a real machine" Dun dream about what I said, I never said that, unless you are dyslexic too. If you dun know what VMware is like or the extremely difficult environments it can run in, dun dive in like you're afraid you're missing out on a party.
I've said this a million times but I'll repeat this again - virtualisation is a great way to run things but I still dun recommend it unless you are technical enough - G.E.D.D.I.T?!
There will definitely be people who will run into problems when running Mac + Windows. There will definitely be people who has no problems running Mac + Windows.
I don't see any point in arguing who's right or wrong. Whether or not something crashes, it's ultimately how you use it. I can crash Mac and Windows in a matter of minutes by doing stupid things to them. Just observe users do things and you will get some ideas to crash them.
Wow, did anybody learn anything from those paragraphs you typed?
On facts and figures:
Figures, or should I say statistics, can be twisted by an individual to support a certain opinion. Same for facts. However, it's twisted in another way. Known facts are used to explain certain behaviour of humans, which then leads to one recommending an action for or against it, which is happening in this thread.
I can tell you that everything here is verifiable with a Google search. Right terms used will lead you to the proof that you want. You want to prove that Mac + Windows can run smoothly, it's not hard. You want to prove that Mac + Windows can't run smoothly, it's not hard either.
Seeing as you obviously got our Did any of that
Wow, again really academic and technical there ... what's your point? Make one for a change and contribute something that we can learn from reading.
Professional experience - Please elaborate and explain this. I have quite a few interpretations about this professional experience thingy and is not in a mood to type out everything on what I think.
I've yet to see any fallacy here, however, I'm seeing a lot of opinions here.
I've only seen wet blanket comments from you and nothing to back up your opinions. Even the most technical and academic writing must bear an opinion - its whether they back it up with the facts. Where are your facts? I only see sweeping comments and dismissive remarks.
Why not go troll some other threads where they are talking about sex, women, politics - opinions only mah, right?
Missed this:
LOL, I must be damn bored. I didn't Google for VMWare just to nitpick. It's a known fact. Do you use VMWare? If you don't, I'm not going to say much. Get real hands-on experience on VMWare first.
Chew on this well-know fact - Nobody claimed that VMware's acceleration feature works for everything, only when its supported and compatibile. How is that VMware's fault? Ever considered that many software simply were not meant to operate in such difficult environments with otherwise incompatible OS and hardware? That's why there's an on/off button (as with all things like your lightbulb). So what's your point again?
By the way, turning off VMWare's acceleration option, which in turn causes bad performance, it's not because of the OS. It's a problem of communication between both VMWare and the OS. Without this communication, performance is expected to take a hit.
Also, crashes are not due to VMWare being buggy until otherwise proven, but a case of programs being buggy or just some feature. Some programs have certain functions that detect a virtualization environment and will purposely cause problems to it, which can cause funny problems to both the host OS and virtual OS.
Which is precisely the irrelevance of your post about the acceleration option.
The whole point of this thread is about compatibility issues. But you paint it like its VMware's fault that the acceleration option "doesn't work all the time" with all things. Like the way people blame the OS when there's a million and one factors that are more likely at fault. What's your point then?
My only conclusion is that this thread has posts that offend your Mac sensibilities and you want to dismiss things being said here. Typical.
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Originally posted by alleggerita:
Not true. I just got a Macbook Pro 15" 2.4GHz (Late '08 model) with 250GB HDD and 2GB DDR3 RAM @ $2,488 (usual price $2,788). I have to say it's a good deal.
I installed Windows XP Professional Edition on it using the Bootcamp utility and everything is working fine. It works just like any other PC/laptops running Windows. I did it simply because of my L4D and I have no problems playing it.
Loving my MBP now.
For that specs, you'd be paying half the price for a laptop. And with the same price you pay for that MBP, you'll prolly get waaaaay better specs.
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Originally posted by parn:
I'm just toying with the idea of using Windows XP Professional on a MacBook....not really looking at MacBook Pro cos I prefer the white casing over the metal one.
Lots of truly stunning choices if you google say "White colour Laptops"? Especially since they are getting slimmer and lighter.
My previous ASUS was white, loved it, constant conversation topic, still working great after 4-5 yrs but one word of caution. It stains and smudges easily over time. That's why my current is silver grey instead.
Please do not debate with Vista or Windows 7, I really hate using those two operating systems cos they are not user-friendly and maybe I have really gotten used to using Windows XP.
Where did u read about Windows 7 usage? Even the experts are talking about feature sets only. Nobody's got any real inkling of usage yet. I've only heard of some using pre-release, pre-beta versions but hardly authoritative stuff.
But already the signs are good enough to say wait and see. I agree on the general assessment in the industry, its a difficult time to make a decision now best hold off a short while more.
Consider reading something authoritative like:
http://windowssecrets.com
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Originally posted by alleggerita:
Not true. I just got a Macbook Pro 15" 2.4GHz (Late '08 model) with 250GB HDD and 2GB DDR3 RAM @ $2,488 (usual price $2,788). I have to say it's a good deal.
Good deal vs which other choices as comparators? Can be more specific? For what kind of usage requirement? If anything, its what the very entertaining Laptop Hunters saga highlights consumers shld consider.
That spec sheet at that price isn't that overwhelmingly cool to me. I just saw a Sony at IMM on Sunday barely $2K with better specs.
BTW, 15" laptops are supposed to be dirt cheap. Cos there are no miniaturization requirements such as special components, nor space/volume/weight constraints nor heat dissipation issues.
I installed Windows XP Professional Edition on it using the Bootcamp utility and everything is working fine. It works just like any other PC/laptops running Windows. I did it simply because of my L4D and I have no problems playing it.
Loving my MBP now.
U've only "just" got your laptop and gushing about your purchase? Quite typical. Can u come back after say 6 mths of updates, patches and security fixes? Remember its not the OS or the hardware... its the interaction based on market forces and dynamics (not just Apple or Windows' updates but also 3rd party software vulnerabilities, includign L4D patches). In your report, include what else you have tried using the system for, what are the software you install and re-install.
If you only use it as a glorified typewriter and reader, I certainly wouldn't expect any problems.
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Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:
There will definitely be people who will run into problems when running Mac + Windows. There will definitely be people who has no problems running Mac + Windows.
I don't see any point in arguing who's right or wrong. Whether or not something crashes, it's ultimately how you use it. I can crash Mac and Windows in a matter of minutes by doing stupid things to them. Just observe users do things and you will get some ideas to crash them.
I can tell you that everything here is verifiable with a Google search. Right terms used will lead you to the proof that you want. You want to prove that Mac + Windows can run smoothly, it's not hard. You want to prove that Mac + Windows can't run smoothly, it's not hard either.
Professional experience - Please elaborate and explain this. I have quite a few interpretations about this professional experience thingy and is not in a mood to type out everything on what I think.
Also, crashes are not due to VMWare being buggy until otherwise proven, but a case of programs being buggy or just some feature. Some programs have certain functions that detect a virtualization environment and will purposely cause problems to it, which can cause funny problems to both the host OS and virtual OS.
Puzzlingly, given that you've repeatedly conceded that there are many problems and issues with interoperability, you claim that there is nothing to discuss and nothing to point out? What are you hiding?
No mood or no expertise (or professional experience) to comment? Since you dun see the point of a forum, perhaps you shld wait till you have both before diving in.