WTF!! ...Imagine a husband 20 years older ... (and he's 30)
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Polygamy no longer a practice in Mormonism. Child marriage is still practised in Muslim countries.
Apostasy is still punishable by death in Islamic countries.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Polygamy no longer a practice in Mormonism. Child marriage is still practised in Muslim countries.
Apostasy is still punishable by death in Islamic countries.
no longer a practice? How well do you know that?Child marriage still practised in Muslim countries? In all muslim countries?
What's the difference between Muslim and Islamic countries.
Define Muslim/Islamic countries.
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
Shi'a Muslims are "apostates" and believe in different things that a Sunni Muslim does. Sunni Muslims are the mainstream/orthodox muslims. Moreover, in Yemen, they are ruled by the Syari'ah constitution which is different from the secular state that we live in.
If there's an article about a Mormon and polygamy, i dun think it's right if i say that all christians practice polygamy too although a Mormon believes in Jesus just like all christians do.
Alas, fallacy of association...
So Shi'a Muslims are 'apostates' while Sunni Muslim are the 'true Muslim' is it?
I dun understand you Muslims are followers of Islam. Why bother to fight among yourself?
Just look at Iraq. So many Shia vs Sunni battles going around. Then Sunni nations such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia vs Shia Iran.
Lastly we got Sunni Al Quada wanna annihilate every Shia Muslims in the world. For what?
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Originally posted by Spartans:
So Shi'a Muslims are 'apostates' while Sunni Muslim are the 'true Muslim' is it?
I dun understand you Muslims are followers of Islam. Why bother to fight among yourself?
Just look at Iraq. So many Shia vs Sunni battles going around. Then Sunni nations such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia vs Shia Iran.
Lastly we got Sunni Al Quada wanna annihilate every Shia Muslims in the world. For what?
That's where the term "extremists" come in...
Do you see a Sunni-Shiite's civil war in Singapore where a predominant Sunni Muslims reside amongst a 300-odd Shi'ites community?
Iran/Iraq/Bahrain/Lebanon are predominantly Shi'ite-run countries governed by the "Supreme Religious Leader" the Ayatollah..though Muslims, they have different doctrines likewise the same of other religions..Typical Sunni muslims of course try to advise these Shi'ite-run countries to rid of their deviant ways and turn to the Sunni ways...As a result, these countries are frowned upon by the Sunni Arab states..
Be it the Al Qaeda, HAMAS, the Baath party or the JI, they use violence to reassert people of their theology of Islam which is wrong because Islam does not condone violence to humanity.
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Dr. Ahmad Al-Mub'i, a Saudi Marriage Officiant: It Is Allowed to Marry a Girl at the Age of One, If Sex Is Postponed. The Prophet Muhammad, Whose Model We Follow, Married 'Aisha When She Was Six and Had Sex with Her When She Was Nine
Following are excerpts from an interview with Dr. Ahmad Al-Mu'bi, a Saudi marriage officiant, which aired on LBC TV on June 19, 2008:
Dr. Ahmad Al-Mu'bi: Marriage is actually two things: First we are talking about the marriage contract itself. This is one thing, while consummating the marriage – having sex with the wife for the first time – is another thing. There is no minimal age for entering marriage. You can have a marriage contract even with a one-year-old girl, not to mention a girl of nine, seven, or eight. This is merely a contract [indicating] consent. The guardian in such a case must be the father, because the father's opinion is obligatory. Thus, the girl becomes a wife... But is the girl ready for sex or not? What is the appropriate age for having sex for the first time? This varies according to environment and traditions. In Yemen, girls are married off at nine, ten, eleven, eight, or thirteen, while in other countries, they are married off at 16. Some countries have legislated laws forbidding having sex before the girl is eighteen.
[...]
The Prophet Muhammad is the model we follow. He took 'Aisha to be his wife when she was six, but he had sex with her only when she was nine.
Interviewer: When she was six...
Dr. Ahmad Al-Mu'bi: He married her at the age of six, and he consummated the marriage, by having sex with her for the first time, when she was nine. We consider the Prophet Muhammad to be our model.
Interviewer: My question to you is whether the marriage of a 12-year-old boy with an 11-year-old girl is a logical marriage, which is permitted by Islamic law.
Dr. Ahmad Al-Mu'bi: If the guardian is the father... There are two different types of guardianship. If the guardian is the father, and he marries his daughter off to a man of appropriate standing, the marriage is obviously valid.
[...]
People find themselves in all kinds of circumstances. Take, for example, a man who has two, three, or four daughters. He does not have any wives, but he needs to go on a trip. Isn't it better to marry his daughter to a man, who will protect and sustain her, and when she reaches the proper age, he will have sex with her? Who says all men are ferocious wolves?
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Dr. Ahmad Al-Mub'i, a Saudi Marriage Officiant: It Is Allowed to Marry a Girl at the Age of One, If Sex Is Postponed. The Prophet Muhammad, Whose Model We Follow, Married 'Aisha When She Was Six and Had Sex with Her When She Was Nine.
Hmm I dun really believe this Dr. Ahmad Al-Mub'i.
Prophet Muhammad is a messenger from God. I dun believe he will have sex with a nine year old girl.
It seemed so morally wrong to have sex with a 9 year old girl regardless of the reason.
No disrespect to the Prophet in any way.
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its funny how people take bits and pieces and use them to judge religion?
Food for thought. Is the situation back then during the Prophet (pbuh) times the same as now? Do they have the same living standards as now? I doubt so? Just as the law now states underage sex is 16 and below? Are we right to say 50 or possibly 100 years from now, the age limit will be the same? We never know..likewise with the times back then.. who knows 100 or 200 years from now, the people in the future will scorn us and deemed as pedos for having an underage sex age limit of 16 years old when theirs may be at 20 or 30 based on their living standards 100 or 200 years from now..u get the point?
Before someone starts producing the hadith bukhari supporting their grounds, bear in mind, just like the bible..there are different testaments..the hadith bukhari is unreliable as it follows the original recorder..Sayeed Hashim who suffered memory loss as he grows older..thus, his recordings is not sahi (reliable).
The actual fact, which i have learnt from the mosques all over is that Lady Aisha (ra) was 17/18 when she consummated her marriage...
And the evil consequences of their deeds will become apparent to them, and that which they used to mock at shall encompass them. (45:34)
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so, after hearing it from Master here too, .... I presume we can all agree that marriage and sex with such a young girl is WRONG and DISGUSTING and REPREHENSIBLE, period ?! ....
is that something we can all agree on ? ....
yes, the age of consent may be relative to the cultures and times ... but where do you draw the line ? ... 15 ? ... 12 ? .... 10 ? .... 9 ? .... 8 ? ....... 5 ? .....
in this case, it is obvious that the 9 and 10 years olds' husbands did not even wait till the young girls' puberty before forcing themselves on their child brides .....
food for thought: why is the line drawn at a certain age ? ... because the mind's not ready for the responsibilities of parenthood ? ... because of lost innocence ? ... because the body's not even ready, not even reached puberty yet ? ...
can you imagine a tiny young girl, of around primary two, three or four, being split by a 30 years old man ?!?!?!?! .....
for me, a fully grown man forcing himself onto a young girl, not even 10 years old, child bride or not, is just plain wrong, period, there is no ifs, buts, or you-sees about it, period.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
for me, a fully grown man forcing himself onto a young girl, not even 10 years old, child bride or not, is just plain wrong, period, there is no ifs, buts, or you-sees about it, period.
I do have the same view as u. The man being at the age of 30s, with fully grown brain does such a thing with a gal who is not even 10... This shows that man or breast is often just a thin line
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it's definitely wrong and sick...such people should go to hell
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I have not yet been able to find a single reliable instance in the books of Arab
history where a girl as young as nine years old was given away in marriage.
Unless such examples are given, we do not have any reasonable grounds to believe
that it really was an accepted norm.
The age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly misreported in the narratives of the
incident.
Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the
authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported,
should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.
It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the
first seventy-one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in
Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the
narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham
is reported to have shifted after living in Medinah for seventy-one years.
Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability
of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) reports that
according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable
except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states
that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported
through people of Iraq (Vol. 11, pg. 48 - 51).
Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the
Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite
badly (Vol. 4, pg. 301 - 302).
According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight
years before Hijrah. However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab
al-Tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-
Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an , was revealed, "I was a young girl". The
54th Surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to
this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the
referred Surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not even only an infant
(sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in
clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see
absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of
Hisham ibn `urwah, why should we not accept this narrative to be more accurate.
According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the
battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and
history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the
battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra)
participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicates that she was not
nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to
the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden upon them.
According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha
(ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb
as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after
hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years
old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at
the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah,
Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra)
- if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years
old at the time of her marriage.
Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra)
reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the
Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the
period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the
time she most likely got married.
According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some
time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam
during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra)
marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not even
have been born during the first year of Islam.
Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr (ra) planned on migrating to
Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Ayesha (ra)
was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his
son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam. Subsequently,
his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at
the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr
decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only
reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before
hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.
According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of
Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to
marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her
mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already
been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was,
Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are
aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature
nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier
is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and
obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra).
Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years
old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by
no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old
at the time of her marriage. -
sick loh..is like raping ur own kid lidat...
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
i have read it before and im not ignorant about such things that happen all around.. Just like Christianity and other religions, there are deviant sects that exists that stray from the mainstream/orthodox religion that the majority of the world preaches and pray..
pls read this
http://www.islamawareness.net/MiddleEast/Yemen/islam.html
Shi'a Muslims are "apostates" and believe in different things that a Sunni Muslim does. Sunni Muslims are the mainstream/orthodox muslims. Moreover, in Yemen, they are ruled by the Syari'ah constitution which is different from the secular state that we live in.
If there's an article about a Mormon and polygamy, i dun think it's right if i say that all christians practice polygamy too although a Mormon believes in Jesus just like all christians do.
Alas, fallacy of association...
Time to ask the long-dead caliphs.
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
its funny how people take bits and pieces and use them to judge religion?
Food for thought. Is the situation back then during the Prophet (pbuh) times the same as now? Do they have the same living standards as now? I doubt so? Just as the law now states underage sex is 16 and below? Are we right to say 50 or possibly 100 years from now, the age limit will be the same? We never know..likewise with the times back then.. who knows 100 or 200 years from now, the people in the future will scorn us and deemed as pedos for having an underage sex age limit of 16 years old when theirs may be at 20 or 30 based on their living standards 100 or 200 years from now..u get the point?
Before someone starts producing the hadith bukhari supporting their grounds, bear in mind, just like the bible..there are different testaments..the hadith bukhari is unreliable as it follows the original recorder..Sayeed Hashim who suffered memory loss as he grows older..thus, his recordings is not sahi (reliable).
The actual fact, which i have learnt from the mosques all over is that Lady Aisha (ra) was 17/18 when she consummated her marriage...
And the evil consequences of their deeds will become apparent to them, and that which they used to mock at shall encompass them. (45:34)
The Arabs do not even bother to defend the prophet's marriage to a 6 year old girl. The Arabs consider the Prophet to be their model. If He could, then they can too. That has become their culture.
Why would any non-Arab try to distort the truth in order to defend the prophet? There's no need to.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
the father of the 9 years old ..... has 16 (!!!!!) ... children, from two wives ...... >.< !
the family now makes a living by begging .......
why the fark have so many children if you can barely feed yourself already ! .....
the world's so screwed