Gang-raped, yet woman gets 6 months' jail, 200 lashes
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Nobody likes the House of Saud.
The systemic dysfunction of their courts is thick when,The Arab News quoted an official as saying the judges had decided to punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.
Reports of the story triggered debate about Saudi ArabiaÂ’s legal system, in which judges have wide discretion in punishing a criminal, rules of evidence are shaky and sometimes no defense lawyers are present. The result, critics say, are sentences left to the whim of judges.
The judges, appointed by the king, have a wide discretion in handing down sentences, often said to depend on their whim. A rapist, for instance, could receive anywhere from a light or no sentence, to death.
Mr Lahem said that the judges' decision to confiscate his license to work and stop him from representing his client is illegal. -
sorrie yo, i think most of us here are sufficeintly intellectual than be consumed by your bullsh$t.. tis has nothing to do with americanism by the way..most european/asian/north america countries is probably shocked by this outcome of judgment..Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:You ask what the world has become? The answer is that it people have become more self confident in their ignorance. This is a sad side effect of the proliferation of American consumer culture.
Non-Eastern cultures differ from Singapore where ladies can walk about half naked and no one except for the Bangladeshis bats an eyelid. It is a well known fact that north asian men are somewhat more sexually repressed in their mindset wrt sexual relations with their female counterparts. In fact, one can say that in some Asian cultures, men and women are treated almost equally and shown the same amount of interest. This of course cuts both ways. Why this is so, whether its due to some kind of culturally derived sexual repression or its genetics (or its maybe the diet?) I cannot comment but suffice to say that it is a fact that Asian males generally have lesser tendency to impose themselves sexually on the female. That's why probably its so hard for Asian men to get blowjobs..haha.
This fact can of course lead to problems. North European/American societies and Middle-Eastern societies address this issue differently and of course one can debate the various social costs and benefits of either cultural attitudes towards the issue of gender and sex. IN SAUDI SOCIETY, the CULTURAL NORM is for there to be strict gender segregation among non-married couples. Maybe the Saudi elites really don't like Western sexploitation culture, or maybe they're afraid they'll lose one of their 4 wives. I dunno. Anyway, in SUCH A SOCIETY, for a woman to be in the situation of the victim, shows that the woman had put considerable effort to bypass many of the barriers put in place to segregate the sexes. Hence, the real story that we can see from the verdict was that the woman was a prostitute who got raped.
Now such a verdict may not be suitable here of course, where prostitution is seen as a social service and the vices are treated with economic pragmatism. The thing to remember of course is that when you want to understand what happens somewhere else, you need to see the context in which that event occured. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS PEOPLE? Reading shallowly into what happens in Saudi Arabia and trying to impose some kind of spin on cultural superiority is well, quite Americanish, and I'm sure our gentle readers (readers get it?) do not want to be that.
try harder next time..
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we are talking about a rape here, where does equality comes in ? ... did the woman rape the men, or the other way around ? ...Originally posted by MohamedF:So we can draw two conclusions:-
(1) There are some forum members that believe that in a rape situation, the men is 100% at fault and it doesn't matter what the girl did.
(2) There are some forum members who believe that if there is a possibility that the chances of rape can be increased and the woman took that risk, the woman is at fault as well.
So who is correct? Or is it that there is no correct answer and it depends on culture?
This thread got me thinking. There was once my friend was discussing about the woman's charter and he said it was a joke. That the woman's charter was made to make the law "more fair" to them. The charter was designed to make the men look like they're always at fault.
I didn't fully agree coz I'm not a lawyer. But it got me thinking. We are raised in a society that women is considered the weaker species and men must protect them. And wrong doing between the man and woman, the man is usually at fault.
Does this have anything to do with our judgement in this case. Are we really treating men and women as equal?
The Truth is... I don't know... I'm getting a headache just thinking about it. (-_-)"
are you trying to say that the suggestiveness of women, equates to an invitation to rape, and thus makes the rapists any less culpable ? ... are you saying that Oh, she got into the car with me, she's asking for it ? ... or "Oh, she's dressed so sexily, so slutty ... I couldn't help myself ? " ....
and if you agree with the proximity offense judgement, then answer my question that I asked you, do you have a girlfriend ? ... or when you have one, are you going to go out with her as a couple ? ... -
Anyway,i think those lashes is NOT like those in our prison,S'pore prison only allow max 24 strokes,the buttocks already 'look' out of shape after it,think about 200 strokes.?
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barbaric.
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Hey come on, it's Saudi Arabia. What can you expect?
No point arguing about it really. Those backward thick heads at the top aren't going to do anything to alter the situation anyway. -
the latest from the BBC ...
Saudi gang rape sentence 'unjust'
A lawyer for a gang-rape victim in Saudi Arabia who was sentenced to 200 lashes and six-months in jail says the punishment contravenes Islamic law.
The woman was initially punished for violating laws on segregation of the sexes - she was in an unrelated man's car at the time of the attack.
When she appealed, judges doubled her sentence, saying she had been trying to use the media to influence them.
Her lawyer has been suspended from the case and faces a disciplinary session.
Abdel Rahman al-Lahem told the BBC Arabic Service that the sentence was in violation of Islamic law:
"My client is the victim of this abhorrent crime. I believe her sentence contravenes the Islamic Sharia law and violates the pertinent international conventions," he said.
"The judicial bodies should have dealt with this girl as the victim rather than the culprit."
The lawyer also said that his client would appeal against the decision to increase her punishment.
Segregation laws
According to the Arab News newspaper, the 19-year-old woman, who is from Saudi Arabia's Shia minority, was gang-raped 14 times in an attack in Qatif in the eastern province a year-and-a-half ago.
Seven men were found guilty of the rape and sentenced to prison terms ranging from just under a year to five years.
"Being a Muslim, I think it's a big injustice done to the girl. If the court doubled the sentence of the girl then they should have given death penalty to the rapists"
Asfandyar
Saudi Arabia
The rapists' sentences were also doubled by the court. Correspondents say the sentences were still low considering the rapists could have faced the death penalty.
The rape victim was punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other. She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in the car of a strange man.
On appeal, the Arab News reported that the punishment was not reduced but increased to 200 lashes and a six-month prison sentence.
'Personal views'
Mr Lahem accused the court of letting personal views influence its decision.
"It seems that the sentence was influenced by the fact that the woman escalated the issue with her lawyer and also with the supreme judicial authorities," he said.
"This is astonishing because justice is supposed to be independent from all pressures as well as personal considerations, be it a feeling towards the lawyer or defendant herself," he added.
The Arab News quoted an official as saying the judges had decided to punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.
Mr Lahem said that the judges' decision to confiscate his license to work and stop him from representing his client is illegal.
now the (MALE) lawyer who handled the case for the victim has been suspended ...
go read the reader's comments, especially those from the middle east ... it's good that the vast majority of them recognizes injustice when they see it ... I say good for them !
and we have people here trying to defend this in the name of "cultural relativity" ? .... something is seriously wrong ... -
The muslim world is just so male dominated and screwed up, I just hope that the saudi women will all conspire to leave the country to settle elsewhere and let the Saudis die out......
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And there you have a fertile breeding ground for disaffection and fundamentalism.Originally posted by teraexa:Hey come on, it's Saudi Arabia. What can you expect?
No point arguing about it really. Those backward thick heads at the top aren't going to do anything to alter the situation anyway.
Saudi Arabia's lack of progress in human development is probably one of the root causes of the need to have a War on Terror today. -
Ah... so I was wrong earlier to say that the law was in placed to prevent rape. It was actually a segregation law.Originally posted by Fatum:the latest from the BBC ...
Saudi gang rape sentence 'unjust'
A lawyer for a gang-rape victim in Saudi Arabia who was sentenced to 200 lashes and six-months in jail says the punishment contravenes Islamic law.
The woman was initially punished for violating laws on segregation of the sexes - she was in an unrelated man's car at the time of the attack.
When she appealed, judges doubled her sentence, saying she had been trying to use the media to influence them.
Her lawyer has been suspended from the case and faces a disciplinary session.
Abdel Rahman al-Lahem told the BBC Arabic Service that the sentence was in violation of Islamic law:
"My client is the victim of this abhorrent crime. I believe her sentence contravenes the Islamic Sharia law and violates the pertinent international conventions," he said.
"The judicial bodies should have dealt with this girl as the victim rather than the culprit."
The lawyer also said that his client would appeal against the decision to increase her punishment.
Segregation laws
According to the Arab News newspaper, the 19-year-old woman, who is from Saudi Arabia's Shia minority, was gang-raped 14 times in an attack in Qatif in the eastern province a year-and-a-half ago.
Seven men were found guilty of the rape and sentenced to prison terms ranging from just under a year to five years.
"Being a Muslim, I think it's a big injustice done to the girl. If the court doubled the sentence of the girl then they should have given death penalty to the rapists"
Asfandyar
Saudi Arabia
The rapists' sentences were also doubled by the court. Correspondents say the sentences were still low considering the rapists could have faced the death penalty.
The rape victim was punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other. She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in the car of a strange man.
On appeal, the Arab News reported that the punishment was not reduced but increased to 200 lashes and a six-month prison sentence.
'Personal views'
Mr Lahem accused the court of letting personal views influence its decision.
"It seems that the sentence was influenced by the fact that the woman escalated the issue with her lawyer and also with the supreme judicial authorities," he said.
"This is astonishing because justice is supposed to be independent from all pressures as well as personal considerations, be it a feeling towards the lawyer or defendant herself," he added.
The Arab News quoted an official as saying the judges had decided to punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.
Mr Lahem said that the judges' decision to confiscate his license to work and stop him from representing his client is illegal.
now the (MALE) lawyer who handled the case for the victim has been suspended ...
go read the reader's comments, especially those from the middle east ... it's good that the vast majority of them recognizes injustice when they see it ... I say good for them !
and we have people here trying to defend this in the name of "cultural relativity" ? .... something is seriously wrong ...
Segregation law and rape actually has nothing to do with each other.
My part in this discussion is over... bb
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saudi women fetish?Originally posted by :The muslim world is just so male dominated and screwed up, I just hope that the saudi women will all conspire to leave the country to settle elsewhere and let the Saudis die out...... -
b4 people start bashing muslims, the lack of human rights in Saudi Arabia is mainly due to culture, not religion.... Pls cont bashing...Originally posted by :The muslim world is just so male dominated and screwed up, I just hope that the saudi women will all conspire to leave the country to settle elsewhere and let the Saudis die out...... -
I'm glad you make that distinction ... and I agree ... cheers ! ...Originally posted by MohamedF:b4 people start bashing muslims, the lack of human rights in Saudi Arabia is mainly due to culture, not religion.... Pls cont bashing...
however, and unfortunately, a lot of cultural practices get cloaked in religion ... take female circumcision in parts of the middle east and the horn of africa for example ....
it takes a brave man to make that distinction, because there are plenty of people who'd view it as an assault on their religion ... -
so its the culture problem la. hmm hmm. very wise to see the difference
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I srsly don't like Saudi Arabia... They're like the main country of the muslim world. Now the muslim world is under attack from many sides and views, what do they do? They sit on their oils and do nothing...Originally posted by Fatum:I'm glad you make that distinction ... and I agree ... cheers ! ...
however, and unfortunately, a lot of cultural practices get cloaked in religion ... take female circumcision in parts of the middle east and the horn of africa for example ....
it takes a brave man to make that distinction, because there are plenty of people who'd view it as an assault on their religion ... -
I hope frakfrak gets raped like that girl ex-boyfriend. Then we can call him a giggolo and stuff coins up his ass to add salt to his poo.
I don't know how that law supposed to help prevent girl from kena rape? If wan to stop rape then can do so many more effective things. Like cut off all the man's banana. So much more efective. No more rape lor like that. -
This is totally uncalled forOriginally posted by frakfrakfrak:Hey Fatum, I hope you daughter doesn't ever become a prostitute.
. It's a personal attack. What has this Fatum said to warrant you to make such despicable and rude statement. If you can't have a sensible and healthy debate, leave. Other forumites like us want to read constructive and decent arguments -
good god
i started a flaming? -
Did I read wrongly??Originally posted by Lin Yu:The couple were sitting in a car when a group of seven men kidnapped them and raped them both, lawyers told the Arab News.
The 7 men also raped the boyfriend?? -
Think about the 1,000 strokes the rapists will be getting eachOriginally posted by veron soh:Anyway,i think those lashes is NOT like those in our prison,S'pore prison only allow max 24 strokes,the buttocks already 'look' out of shape after it,think about 200 strokes.? -
Main country of the muslim world? Only because of the weight of Mecca. Historically whoever holds dominion over Mecca, is the locus of power. Once they lose Mecca, they lose caliphic legitimacy.Originally posted by MohamedF:I srsly don't like Saudi Arabia... They're like the main country of the muslim world. Now the muslim world is under attack from many sides and views, what do they do? They sit on their oils and do nothing...
Lucky House of Saud. -
Will be dead after it.!Originally posted by cyberr1981:Think about the 1,000 strokes the rapists will be getting each -
well apparently osama bin laden thinks so too, tt's why he wants to topple them and call it Laden Arabia.Originally posted by Gauze:Main country of the muslim world? Only because of the weight of Mecca. Historically whoever holds dominion over Mecca, is the locus of power. Once they lose Mecca, they lose caliphic legitimacy.
Lucky House of Saud.
guess why osama is so anti-us? look at the biggest supporter of the House of Saud! -
Haahahahahaha ...... I miss that part as well ......Originally posted by Lin Yu:The young woman's offence was in meeting a former boyfriend, whom she had asked to return pictures he had of her because she was about to marry another man.
The couple were sitting in a car when a group of seven men kidnapped them and raped them both, lawyers told the Arab News.
sodomy too ........ is that punishable by death over there ? ....
looks I a lot of people miss that part ... me included ....
and who's the fellow that called her a prostitute again ? .... -
Wah~ so good ah their country...