Gang-raped, yet woman gets 6 months' jail, 200 lashes
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Trying to put myself in judge shoes:-Originally posted by Fatum:I can't put it any better .... what this judgement against her basically says is that she was asking for it .... get it ? ....
"a woman shall not be in a same car with an unrelated male" i think that this law was meant to protect women from rape.
Though I do think that law is harsh... -
Of course I do, more so that you. One does not leave diamonds in the dirt. You are so rabidly pretentious it shows. "I can't put it any better". Oh do please try dear even though you have to climb down a little.Originally posted by Fatum:no ... I'm not a woman ... but I respect them ... I hold them as equal human beings, I hold their bodies as sacred, I don't see any sort of suggestions from them as an invitation to force myself upon them ...
do you ? ... -
any judge that gives a woman 6 mths and 200 lashes for whatever it is this woman is supposed to have done is an asshole...
women are supposed to prevent rape and if she gets raped it is her fault for not preventing it? crapz... even if she runs around naked, no man has the right to rape her... -
[not related to topic: but my mom just mentioned that she wished she had abandoned me and my sis when we were babies...>< yeah lar she is just joking but....huuuummm....what kind of mommy says this lorrr!!!!!! ><]Originally posted by LazerLordz:You see, modernisation theory may not always work if there is little avenue for change internally should interested parties want to. It depends on the cost-benefit analysis here. The space for debate about such things in Saudi Arabia is not large enough for a gradual wriggling about with regards to these statutes.
Some things are inevitably universal, and a stand has to be made eventually.
Brings to mind "Responsibility to Protect" too. Though I would agree that while the world should lobby against such practices, their role should be limited to creating that lil space for domestic activists to work in, and not attempt to replace them.
modernization (in the way that u are talking about) is some amayleecan dream. (ok. this sentence doesnt really make sense i think. but im very tired....) why must other countries 'modernize'? why do they have to adopt policies and laws that have originated from some other random country? do they not have a say in how they should run their own country? i will admit that i do not know anything about laws in saudi arabia. maybe this punishment is wrong even in their own country. i have no idea. but im not talking this one incident. im talking about a whole bunch of other stuff in general. nonono. i dun think they should have any role at all in creating space for domestics activists to work in. how did america come up with women's rights and all that?? who helped them? they did it themselves didnt they??
things'll only work out properly without external interference.
oh. and why why why is it that countries like the states feel that they are 'responsible' for the 'well-being' of people in other countries??
u send stuff like rice/wheat etc to people in other countries. but some people in those countries CANNOT take wheat. so what's the point of sending all those foods over when honestly it's not really going to help? it's not going to take half a generation before the people develop biologically to be able to digest wheat.
and based on TCKs who have lived in parts of africa etc, it's not helping either.
nothing is universal and ever will be universal. there is no black and white in this world. everything is grey. no matter what happens, there will be some people who see it as 'right' and some who see it as 'wrong'. even IF the law states that killing people is wrong. there will always be some people out there who view the killer as right.
damn im rambling..... should i go to bed and sleep... -
It's not just the States mind you.
Anyway, go and sleep la.. rambling liao.
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Look, guarding against sexual contact is not the same as guarding against RAPE.Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:Lazerlordz: She wasn't kidnapped mind you. Look Lazerlordz, I do not have much to go on here. You cannot force me to discredit the judge based on what you and I do not know. If we take liberties then we can say that what happened may be that she went along with him thinking he was a good boy and then she got date-raped. This happens even in the West. The difference in the law is that in the West they will say the woman was not at fault because she didn't know he had the intent. In Saudi Arabia they say all gender relations are subject to the sexual event, therefore the object of sexual desire must guard against the possibility of unwanted sexual contact. Do you want me to choose the former over the latter?
RAPE = Sex against one's will.
What part of that do you fail to understand?
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oh really ? ....Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:Of course I do, more so that you. One does not leave diamonds in the dirt. You are so rabidly pretentious it shows. "I can't put it any better". Oh do please try dear even though you have to climb down a little.
for someone who claimed that the rape victim was a prostitute ... based on his "analysis" ....
hmmmmmmmm ....... *rubs chin .... -
Andrew: I do not agree with the severity of the punishment. Maybe the judge was making a deterrent sentence. Who knows. Also, its not a matter of right. Its a matter of power. She can run around naked and no man has the right to rape her. But some men with power man may still rape her. Heck, the President of Israel had been charged with rape wasn't he? Hence, she must not run around naked because the powers that protect her are not infinite. The law must not be naive right?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:any judge that gives a woman 6 mths and 200 lashes for whatever it is this woman is supposed to have done is an asshole...
women are supposed to prevent rape and if she gets raped it is her fault for not preventing it? crapz... even if she runs around naked, no man has the right to rape her... -
it's okay.. one day fff will get the crap beaten out of him for sitting by himself...
and it'll all be his own fault for sitting there and his own fault for being a victim
and maybe, he'll then get arrested and put in jail for inciting others to beat the hell out of him by sitting there, minding his own business -
but if i was there i'd view it as normal. i'd hate it (like some of the females there do), but hey...that's how it is. hmmm...but now as someone not living there and learning about it....yes DUH im glad im not from there. and glad im not from many parts of the world. because i like to have my own say in how i live. but then again...it's got to do with the education and life i've gotten i suppose...Originally posted by Fatum:aren't you glad you're not an eskimo girl udon ? ....
btw, the eskimos hate the term "eskimos" ... they call themselves "inuits" ... only the plains and costal indians call them "eskimos" ... it's a derogatory term ... just something nice to know told to me by an "inuit" .... most textbooks should already make that distinction ...
btw, my textbook was written by an american.
(biased remark made by someone from the more superior part of north america. hiaK~) -
Okay this is one heck of a classic.Originally posted by the Bear:it's okay.. one day fff will get the crap beaten out of him for sitting by himself...
and it'll all be his own fault for sitting there and his own fault for being a victim
and maybe, he'll then get arrested and put in jail for inciting others to beat the hell out of him by sitting there, minding his own business -
Oh go read my replies on that SLOWLY.Originally posted by Fatum:oh really ? ....
for someone who claimed that the rape victim was a prostitute ... based on his "analysis" ....
hmmmmmmmm ....... *rubs chin .... -
a person running around naked may be arrested for indecent exposure.
but a person running around naked does not give people around her the right to rape her...
sheesh!! what the hell is wrong with you?Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:Andrew: I do not agree with the severity of the punishment. Maybe the judge was making a deterrent sentence. Who knows. Also, its not a matter of right. Its a matter of power. She can run around naked and no man has the right to rape her. But some men with power man may still rape her. Heck, the President of Israel had been charged with rape wasn't he? Hence, she must not run around naked because the powers that protect her are not infinite. The law must not be naive right? -
Yes, no man has the right to rape her... but the law in question has stated a law on the woman's part to prevent rape and by breaching that law the woman was considered to have "invited rape" which is considered an offence in that law...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:any judge that gives a woman 6 mths and 200 lashes for whatever it is this woman is supposed to have done is an asshole...
women are supposed to prevent rape and if she gets raped it is her fault for not preventing it? crapz... even if she runs around naked, no man has the right to rape her... -
Maybe he's one of those fighting to enshrine into law the right to lose of control over bodily functions.Originally posted by the Bear:a person running around naked may be arrested for indecent exposure.
but a person running around naked does not give people around her the right to rape her...
sheesh!! what the hell is wrong with you? -
yeah i think i will and SHOULDOriginally posted by LazerLordz:It's not just the States mind you.
Anyway, go and sleep la.. rambling liao.
was reading my own post and all im seeing are stars...=( lol
plus now i hab a headache.....haha
seeya~~ and have a gd weekend~ -
you too!Originally posted by udontknowme:yeah i think i will and SHOULD
was reading my own post and all im seeing are stars...=( lol
plus now i hab a headache.....haha
seeya~~ and have a gd weekend~ -
which part of "rape" did you not understand?
there is no such thing as "invite rape".. that's the excuse from the perverted imagination of dirty old men..Originally posted by MohamedF:Yes, no man has the right to rape her... but the law in question has stated a law on the woman's part to prevent rape and by breaching that law the woman was considered to have "invited rape" which is considered an offence in that law... -
And thus, that law needs reform. Frankly, I can't believe anyone would enshrine "invitation to rape" in a male-dominated society, and thus telling the world that men are unable to control their baser urges and need women to be locked up for something that is the problem of the men.Originally posted by MohamedF:Yes, no man has the right to rape her... but the law in question has stated a law on the woman's part to prevent rape and by breaching that law the woman was considered to have "invited rape" which is considered an offence in that law... -
Pity the young boys in Saudi too..Originally posted by the Bear:which part of "rape" did you not understand?
there is no such thing as "invite rape".. that's the excuse from the perverted imagination of dirty old men.. -
Ok, maybe wrong choice of words, but the law in question was stated there to prevent the increased possibility of rape to occur...Originally posted by the Bear:which part of "rape" did you not understand?
there is no such thing as "invite rape".. that's the excuse from the perverted imagination of dirty old men..
here's a thought, would it be different if that was like this, "any man who was found in a car with an unrelated woman shall be found guilty"? -
i pity the people in singapore too..
those who believe what they want to believe despite all the evidence
alas...Originally posted by LazerLordz:Pity the young boys in Saudi too.. -
What point were you trying to make when you said that "the President of Israel had been charged with rape"?Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:Andrew: I do not agree with the severity of the punishment. Maybe the judge was making a deterrent sentence. Who knows. Also, its not a matter of right. Its a matter of power. She can run around naked and no man has the right to rape her. But some men with power man may still rape her. Heck, the President of Israel had been charged with rape wasn't he? Hence, she must not run around naked because the powers that protect her are not infinite. The law must not be naive right?
Just because people have the power they can rape women? ... remember "the President of Israel had been charged with rape"... telling you that no matter how powerful you are, you cannot rape a woman....
If Pres Clinton raped Monica Lewinsky, he would have been kicked out of office before you can finish saying the word Lewinsky.
As it is, it was consensual.... and while no man has the right to rape women, every woman has the right to consent (unless they are under-age...)
Not women cannot even get close to men... they can jolly well have sex with any man she wants and it is no one's business... -
Bear: Well that's why there is a provision for self defence right? Also, I do not say that it was ok for the woman to be raped. The judge PROBABLY decided she was negligent on guarding her chastity and gave her an overly severe punishment. I am not agreeing with that. I am agreeing with the judge's verdict on negligence.Originally posted by the Bear:it's okay.. one day fff will get the crap beaten out of him for sitting by himself...
and it'll all be his own fault for sitting there and his own fault for being a victim
and maybe, he'll then get arrested and put in jail for inciting others to beat the hell out of him by sitting there, minding his own business
Lazerlordz: I think the law in Saudi Arabia is based on the current realities of Saudi Arabia and is the best for Saudi Arabia based on the current socio-political environment there. Btw, what is the statistic for rape in Saudi Arabia and the statistic for rape in America? -
I'm sure that you'll say the same thing about Iran as well.Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:Bear: Well that's why there is a provision for self defence right? Also, I do not say that it was ok for the woman to be raped. The judge PROBABLY decided she was negligent on guarding her chastity and gave her an overly severe punishment. I am not agreeing with that. I am agreeing with the judge's verdict on negligence.
Lazerlordz: I think the law in Saudi Arabia is based on the current realities of Saudi Arabia and is the best for Saudi Arabia based on the current socio-political environment there. Btw, what is the statistic for rape in Saudi Arabia and the statistic for rape in America?