BCGs...
-
wat r they for?
vaccine against TB rite?
any other illnesses?
i juz watched on national geo dat dis vaccine only wrks in 5% of those who hv it...
so seriously wats the pt in puttin a scar on our left arm? -
Yes, it's against TB. BCG vaccination has been shown to give 70%-80% protection against TB. Atleast in the past time. If the effectivness would be only 5%, it wouldn't help to lower the number of TB cases so drastically in all countries where this vaccination has been used.
Nowdays new and resistant strains of TB appear, it can be that those are resistant even against this vaccination. -
Thaty scar is a microchip implanted in your arm so the govt can track your whereabouts.
-
mayb dats only stats frm current developed countries? coz it'll only breakout if something triggers it...the current developed countries usually hv better health standards...Originally posted by thinkdifferent:Yes, it's against TB. BCG vaccination has been shown to give 70%-80% protection against TB. Atleast in the past time. If the effectivness would be only 5%, it wouldn't help to lower the number of TB cases so drastically in all countries where this vaccination has been used.
Nowdays new and resistant strains of TB appear, it can be that those are resistant even against this vaccination.
if we include countries in africa which hv the highest tb sufferers mayb dat might drastically decrease the percentage of effectiveness.. -
BCG isn't given in all developing countries, thought the WHO makes programms of vaccinating the poor in Africa, there are still many people without vaccination.
-
BCG or Bacille Calmette-Guérin is given to prevent TB meningitis and miliary disease ( means TB spreads out in the body other than just the lungs) in young people and children- that is where it is effective mostly ( hence u need to live with the scar on the arm) . Its effectiveness is low when it comes to tuberculosis of the lungs in adults.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:wat r they for?
vaccine against TB rite?
any other illnesses?
i juz watched on national geo dat dis vaccine only wrks in 5% of those who hv it...
so seriously wats the pt in puttin a scar on our left arm?
I disagree with you thinkdifferent . Please check the facts. Alwaysdisturbed is right in a way.
Tuberculosis is spread by crowded housing (poor circulation of air in the place) , poor sanitary conditions and poor medical/health access - we see those in third world countries and sometimes developing countries. The bacteria is known as mycobacterium tuberculosis and it spreads through the air ( airborne) . It usually dies in the prolonged exposure to sun's ultra violet light but survives remarkably well around the air ( if there is no sun ) . The reason why we don't see so much in the developed nations is primarily because we don't have crowded housing , poor sanitary conditions and Singapore has an excellent polyclinic and school health system which monitors against Tuberculosis and other communicable diseases ( like your vaccines) .
As for WHO - most developed countries use the direct observation treatment ( DOTS) which is recommended by WHO . In Singapore , the TB patient has to show up for treatment , if not , they get escorted by the police to the polyclinic. It is a public health law in Singapore but that doesn't mean it applies elsewhere in the world . Its purpose helps to decrease multi drug resistant TB strain (MDR-TB which is the new strain) but it cannot prevent it from happening unfortunately.
In Africa , they barely have enough nurses and doctors do DOTS on the people with TB , let alone medications and other monies for healthcare. Even if some patients are given medications , they sell the antibiotics meant to treat TB as a miracle cure on the black market - hence you get MDR -TB . In developed nations , some place value of the right of the individual more than the community - so you have abuse of antibiotics ( people who don't finish treatment BY VIRTUE OF THEIR OWN CHOICE <- morons) and that is where MOST of the multi drug resistant TB started .
HIV is also another reason why MDR-TB started . Antibiotics are used to supplement the immune system in fighting the disease but when there is close to no immune system and the antibiotics float around in the blood circulation trying to kill bacteria - some of the mycobacterium will start forming a resistant gene to prevent the antibiotic from attaching itself to it and killing it off and with a poor immune system - it is heaven for bacteria.
So that's the story of TB and why you have to get the scar on ur arm and how it became MDR -TB -
That is the general misconception when it boils down to adult acquired pulmonary TB . That is why some healthcare professionals do acquire it when they work in TB wards - thinking they are almighty but in fact they are not. And no way you are telling me that it is the 20-30% ineffectiveness chance. Statistics don't show it that way .Originally posted by thinkdifferent:Yes, it's against TB. BCG vaccination has been shown to give 70%-80% protection against TB. Atleast in the past time. If the effectivness would be only 5%, it wouldn't help to lower the number of TB cases so drastically in all countries where this vaccination has been used.
Nowdays new and resistant strains of TB appear, it can be that those are resistant even against this vaccination.
I know that because I am in the healthcare profession ( hospital) and I am going to start my work for the aussie government in population health
. -
gd info fymk!
thx! -
Now no more BCG at primary level liao.. i was the first batch without it..
-
so our scars r implemented by WHO?Originally posted by thinkdifferent:BCG isn't given in all developing countries, thought the WHO makes programms of vaccinating the poor in Africa, there are still many people without vaccination. -
I have given the BCG explanation in an other thread where I have stated that the vaccine is effective for infants and young children.
The agressive resistant strains are resistant also to the vaccination. There is no effective vaccination against the resistant strains. I have consulted my mother who is a doctors and works with TB patients to be sure, and to be more then sure she has consulted her friend a TB specialist over the phone who said the same.
Anyway, thanks for you long comments. Currently I can't give long answers to the questions as I am very busy till february, the other mods are busy too. -
red - any reason for it?Originally posted by fymk:BCG or Bacille Calmette-Guérin is given to prevent TB meningitis and miliary disease ( means TB spreads out in the body other than just the lungs) in young people and children- that is where it is effective mostly ( hence u need to live with the scar on the arm) . Its effectiveness is low when it comes to tuberculosis of the lungs in adults.
I disagree with you thinkdifferent . Please check the facts. Alwaysdisturbed is right in a way.
Tuberculosis is spread by crowded housing (poor circulation of air in the place) , poor sanitary conditions and poor medical/health access - we see those in third world countries and sometimes developing countries. The bacteria is known as mycobacterium tuberculosis and it spreads through the air ( airborne) . It usually dies in the prolonged exposure to sun's ultra violet light but survives remarkably well around the air ( if there is no sun ) . The reason why we don't see so much in the developed nations is primarily because we don't have crowded housing , poor sanitary conditions and Singapore has an excellent polyclinic and school health system which monitors against Tuberculosis and other communicable diseases ( like your vaccines) .
As for WHO - most developed countries use the direct observation treatment ( DOTS) which is recommended by WHO . In Singapore , the TB patient has to show up for treatment , if not , they get escorted by the police to the polyclinic. It is a public health law in Singapore but that doesn't mean it applies elsewhere in the world . Its purpose helps to decrease multi drug resistant TB strain (MDR-TB which is the new strain) but it cannot prevent it from happening unfortunately.
In Africa , they barely have enough nurses and doctors do DOTS on the people with TB , let alone medications and other monies for healthcare. Even if some patients are given medications , they sell the antibiotics meant to treat TB as a miracle cure on the black market - hence you get MDR -TB . In developed nations , some place value of the right of the individual more than the community - so you have abuse of antibiotics ( people who don't finish treatment BY VIRTUE OF THEIR OWN CHOICE <- morons) and that is where MOST of the multi drug resistant TB started .
HIV is also another reason why MDR-TB started . Antibiotics are used to supplement the immune system in fighting the disease but when there is close to no immune system and the antibiotics float around in the blood circulation trying to kill bacteria - some of the mycobacterium will start forming a resistant gene to prevent the antibiotic from attaching itself to it and killing it off and with a poor immune system - it is heaven for bacteria.
So that's the story of TB and why you have to get the scar on ur arm and how it became MDR -TB
so is our vaccine strong enuff for mdr-tb?
come to tink of it...antibiotics is the only cure for tb izzit?
hw abt mdr-tb? any cure? or stronger dosage of antibiotics? -
BCG has varying effectiveness (0-76%) in individuals and no one actually can say why - some say it is a varying genetic changes between TB bacteria ( but this happened WAY before MDR-TB - they learnt that in 1969) , some say it is due to the individual immune systems . Research done shown that in adults - it has low or no protective effect against Pulmonary TB - in a lucky few yes but not all .Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:red - any reason for it?
so is our vaccine strong enuff for mdr-tb?
come to tink of it...antibiotics is the only cure for tb izzit?
hw abt mdr-tb? any cure? or stronger dosage of antibiotics?
A vaccine is just to let your immune system "recognise" the bacteria and destroy it .Whenever that particular bacteria invades , because of the vaccine , your immune system knows how to deal with it. Even if you have ( for example) whooping cough aka diptheria vaccination - u come across a person who has antibiotic resistant diptheria - you might not acquire it because your body will recognise the bacteria. Antibiotic resistant bacteria only change part of their structure to compensate for hiding their weak points from the drug but not all of their genetic structure which the immune system will recognise and destroy on sight .
Tuberculosis is a bacterial infection , therefore antibiotics are the treatment option for it. They usually test what MDR - TB is susceptible to . We call that culture and sensitivity . If there are some drugs which can work on MDR TB - then they put the patient on it but those are very very expensive . The usual antibiotic cocktail is isoniazid, rifampin, and pyrazinamide for non MDR-TB . The new ones are rifapentin , capreomycin and cycloserine . Those are very expensive .
If all antibiotics fail ( and let's include the new ones) , then the person can just wait to hope for the best that the drug company actually comes up with something new - but if not , just wait for death and hope it will be painless ( that would be a miracle).
Not the first time it happen that someone dies from a multi resistant bacteria . It is because of people abusing antibiotics as a "miracle cure" for a viral cold , not finishing off their antibiotics or maybe farmers use it as growth inducer (avoparcin is one such antibiotic used) in animals that you have resistant bacteria everywhere - i.e MRSA , VRE. -
Funny , I cannot seem to find those research articles pertaining to the resistant strains being resistant to BCG although it is a known fact that the mycobacterium actually have varying genetic strains plus changes BEFORE MDR-TB (aka the new aggressive resistant strain) . Maybe your mom or her TB specialist friend can give me some journal direction like New England Journal of Medicine or something from MEDLINE database (refereed journals please) . Maybe I could learn something new but not from hearsay because I heard different from an infectious disease consultant . Maybe they are just talking about resistance to the triple cocktail antibiotics.Originally posted by thinkdifferent:I have given the BCG explanation in an other thread where I have stated that the vaccine is effective for infants and young children.
The agressive resistant strains are resistant also to the vaccination. There is no effective vaccination against the resistant strains. I have consulted my mother who is a doctors and works with TB patients to be sure, and to be more then sure she has consulted her friend a TB specialist over the phone who said the same.
Anyway, thanks for you long comments. Currently I can't give long answers to the questions as I am very busy till february, the other mods are busy too.
The ones I can find state that BCG has varying effectiveness EVEN against the non MDR TB strains because of already KNOWN differences between genetics in mycobacterium since 1969 and it covers only for 10-15 years max . CDC themselves have considered vaccinating Healthcare workers with BCG against an MDR-TB outbreak.
http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/p0000192/p0000192.asp
There is a new vaccine development in oxford ( if I am not wrong ). -
Natural resistance doesn't mean that "Oh a new strain therefore the vaccine is ineffective."
All bacteria have natural resistance to some components and yes they do evolve against newer treatments but we all know that it is part of darwinian evolutionary theory .
In theory , you can kill 99% of the bacterial colony in the body but there will be a 1% who will form some resistance against the drug .
Although these are viral examples but let's think of this examples of how human ourselves form resistances . Just like why some people survived small pox and are immune against it while others die. Just like SARS - some survived , some didn't . Just about any infectious disease Just an analogy
The only reason why 1% can survive and remain dormant in the body is because to actually produce a resistant gene takes up more energy in the resistant bacteria rather than a susceptible bacteria . For example if you expand alot of energy just standing on one spot (i.e. skipping alot) - you will find you are too tired to move on - same goes for the resistant bacteria - they expand abit more energy so they cannot multiply as quickly as susceptible bacteria in theory . Therefore the same goes for the bacteria . However MRSA is endemic (meaning: common) in hospitals - all those lovely methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus can expand easily because almost everyone of them have the resistant gene and that is their turf . Just flora and fauna thing with them - refer to microbiology textbooks - I am sure some of them will explain how ecology works .
By the way some transfer immunity via plasmid ( genetic material) to other bacteria strains . Read on VRE. It will be interesting . -
so a vaccine wrks exactly like an anti virus software in coms...Originally posted by fymk:BCG has varying effectiveness (0-76%) in individuals and no one actually can say why - some say it is a varying genetic changes between TB bacteria ( but this happened WAY before MDR-TB - they learnt that in 1969) , some say it is due to the individual immune systems . Research done shown that in adults - it has low or no protective effect against Pulmonary TB - in a lucky few yes but not all .
A vaccine is just to let your immune system "recognise" the bacteria and destroy it .Whenever that particular bacteria invades , because of the vaccine , your immune system knows how to deal with it. Even if you have ( for example) whooping cough aka diptheria vaccination - u come across a person who has antibiotic resistant diptheria - you might not acquire it because your body will recognise the bacteria. Antibiotic resistant bacteria only change part of their structure to compensate for hiding their weak points from the drug but not all of their genetic structure which the immune system will recognise and destroy on sight .
Tuberculosis is a bacterial infection , therefore antibiotics are the treatment option for it. They usually test what MDR - TB is susceptible to . We call that culture and sensitivity . If there are some drugs which can work on MDR TB - then they put the patient on it but those are very very expensive . The usual antibiotic cocktail is isoniazid, rifampin, and pyrazinamide for non MDR-TB . The new ones are rifapentin , capreomycin and cycloserine . Those are very expensive .
If all antibiotics fail ( and let's include the new ones) , then the person can just wait to hope for the best that the drug company actually comes up with something new - but if not , just wait for death and hope it will be painless ( that would be a miracle).
Not the first time it happen that someone dies from a multi resistant bacteria . It is because of people abusing antibiotics as a "miracle cure" for a viral cold , not finishing off their antibiotics or maybe farmers use it as growth inducer (avoparcin is one such antibiotic used) in animals that you have resistant bacteria everywhere - i.e MRSA , VRE. -
LOL, humans and computers different.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:so a vaccine wrks exactly like an anti virus software in coms...