Originally posted by Babelfish:
oh.. but what happens if we make losses?
We?
Huh? You make losses, you recoup them back lah. High risk, high return.
No such thing as a free lunch.
Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:We?
Huh? You make losses, you recoup them back lah. High risk, high return.
No such thing as a free lunch.
pardon me the noob :x
When trading with leverage on a computer (e.g. forex),
just one major loss due not being able to cut loss because
1) Trading platform hanged or down
2) Computer hanged
will wipe out all your gains. One will do.
Happened before when I wanted to withdraw sell queue for NOL at 1.7.... The whole damn platform was down, and they took a few hours to restart it. It was subsequently sold at the restart at 1.7 because I couldn't withdraw, and the price shot to 1.9 thereafter. This time round, it's just lesser profit. Imagine if it was cutting loss because you know something is going wrong, and you can't do a thing about it.
For Forex it is fine wif me if my com hangs.
Reason being I'm that type that can wait... Days on end.
Just wait for it to turn into positive territory can liao.
Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:For Forex it is fine wif me if my com hangs.
Reason being I'm that type that can wait... Days on end.
Just wait for it to turn into positive territory can liao.
Like that, you use CFD to trade blue chips also can liao -.-"
I still remember the case where the student that studied in Australia and made $80k after he graduate from trading bank stocks, only to lose it all plus his dad's retirement money and still owe his broker $200+k....
Article from New Paper in 2007:
BURNT BY STOCKS
I LOST $700,000 IN 3 MONTHS
Student on winning stock market streak, then he loses dad's life savings
• OCT LAST YEAR: Just a student in Australia, he makes $80,000 from trading
• DEC LAST YEAR: Back in S'pore after exams, he role-plays trading
& makes an imaginary $100,000 on 1st day & $110,000 on 2nd day
• DEC-JAN: Convinces dad to give him life savings of $300,000. But he loses it & the $80,000
• Feb: Girlfriend dumps him. He stops trading for 2 weeks.
• FEB: He puts money on stocks of 9 companies when market reopens after Chinese New Year
By Maureen Koh
12 March 2007
EVEN before he graduated from an Australian university, this Singapore engineering student earned $80,000 in a month.
Mr Chan (we are not giving his full name to protect his identity) did not have a job.
The 27-year-old was betting on the Singapore stock market, and managed
to pick the shares whose prices rocketed in the recent bull run.
Buoyed by the success, his father was convinced that his only son had a Midas touch.
So, the 67-year-old former sailor, who runs a shop selling women's
clothes in Chinatown, gave his son $300,000 - his whole life savings -
to invest in shares.
That was a couple of months ago.
Today, Mr Chan has not only lost all his father's savings, he has incurred another $320,000 in trading losses.
When the global market went through a sudden meltdown last week, so did his luck and fortune.
EVERYTHING BOMBED
In just two days, Mr Chan chalked up a few hundred thousand dollars in
losses when The Straits Times Index (STI) dived by 75.9 points on 27
Feb and another 127.87 points (the steepest dive in 20 years) on 28
Feb.
He said: 'Everything bombed in just 48 hours. My life, my future... and now, even my parents could lose their home.'
In three short months of trading, Mr Chan has lost about $700,000.
Although the market has regained some of its earlier losses this week, the recovery means little to him.
Mr Chan was dabbling in high-risk contra trading, where you buy and
sell the same shares within three days, putting up no money and earning
the profits when share prices go up. But investors can lose money when
the stock market is having a downturn, and they will have to pay the
losses to their stockbrokers within days.
Mr Chan bought heavily into popular counters such as DBS, UOB,
Capitaland and even China stocks such as Longcheer Holdings, and hoped
to sell them for a gain before the usual deadline.
But as the market dipped suddenly and he could not afford to pay and
keep all the shares, he had to make up for all the losses he incurred
during his trading period.
Even after exhausting his previous winnings, his father's savings, and
loans from friends, he still owes two of his remisiers more than
$200,000.
To add to his woes, his girlfriend of eight years has also walked out
on him, disappointed by how his gambling had cost him dearly.
Most of his friends are also avoiding his calls or finding excuses not
to meet him. Word has gone around that he is desperate for money
because he has already borrowed some $70,000 from 20 of his friends.
Mr Chan said: 'No one can blame them for avoiding me. Thankfully, I
still have my parents on my side, otherwise I'd probably have gone
insane.'
To help him, his father is prepared to move to a smaller home if
needed. While the family is scrambling to raise the money to clear the
debt, Mr Chan admitted he had entertained thoughts of filing for
bankruptcy.
He said: 'I was told if I did that, it'd be tough for me to find a decent job.'
During the interview with The New Paper on Sunday, Mr Chan became
rather agitated and restless when he related his problems. 'Look, it's
fine if it's just me, but I've got to think of my parents,' he said.
This is a far cry from October last year when he was preparing for his final-year examination in Perth.
At a group study session, one of his Singaporean classmates checked on
his own trading account and shouted happily when he made a few thousand
dollars.
Mr Chan recalled: 'I was hooked from the minute he started talking about how easy it was to make a profit.
''He encouraged me to do likewise and even suggested that I start off with contra trading since I didn't have much cash.'
Mr Chan then contacted a cousin, who had an online trading account in Singapore, and asked him to buy some shares he selected.
He said: 'I made $23,000 by the end of the first week and my friends started calling me Prince Midas.
'I guess I sort of got carried away when I made another killing of
about $30,000. I got bolder and by the time I stopped because of the
exams, I was richer by $80,000.'
Mr Chan returned to Singapore in early December after his examinations
and shared the news with his father and 58-year-old mother. They were
impressed with his 'windfall'.
Still, he insisted that it was not the 'easy cash' but boredom that got him trading again.
He said: 'I wanted to take a break for a couple of months before
looking for a job, so I was idling during the day when my parents and
my girlfriend were at work. 'I was surfing the Internet when I decided
to check out the SGX homepage. I randomly picked a few companies and
the chart pattern I saw was definitely encouraging.'
He started to monitor the shares, and role-played as if he had bought heavily into them.
When the STI closed on the first day, he had made an imaginary $100,000; on the second day, it was another $110,000 'win'.
'I was, like, geez! If only I had dealt in real money. Then it occurred
to me, maybe this is my calling. If I were good, I could afford to let
my parents retire comfortably, have a lavish wedding, and upgrade my
Honda Civic.'
Over dinner that night, Mr Chan shared his plan with his parents and asked them if they would like to pool in their money.
He said: 'My father told me, no risk, no gain.' Two days later, the
senior Mr Chan transferred $300,000, his whole life savings, to his
son's bank account.
Flushed with cash, Mr Chan was able to open trading accounts with three
stockbroking firms. He was so focused on his new 'responsibility' that
he 'ate, slept and breathed stocks'.
From analysing companies' chart patterns to buying stocks after a fall, Mr Chan traded shares of up to six companies at one go.
'I thought I was so smart to diversify... you know what they say, never put all your eggs into one basket,' he said.
But when he registered the first negative return, Mr Chan 'freaked out'.
'I felt it should not have happened because people were making money.'
The $28,000 loss was just the beginning of his nightmare. He said: 'I
lost control. I could not afford to lose the money. My family does not
belong to the high-income strata.'
His confidence level dipped further when he kept picking 'the bad eggs'.
As his stocks dipped further, he started to panic and began to ask his friends for loans.
To help him, his girlfriend applied for four bank overdraft facilities and even maxed the limit on five credit cards.
She was the only one who knew the true extent of his losses.
Mr Chan said: 'I couldn't tell my parents. But my girlfriend was there for me... until she could not take it anymore.
He covered his face for some seconds and said quietly: 'I've let her down. Really.'
In his bid to win his girlfriend and his money back, Mr Chan said he
stopped trading for about two weeks, but continued to monitor the
charts.
Hoping to recover some of his earlier losses, he set his sight on the
stocks of nine companies when the market re-opened after the Chinese
New Year.
But Mr Chan ended up suffering $100,000 in paper losses and $220,000 in contra trading.
He said: 'I went in for the kill, only to find I could barely stay
alive less than five trading days later. My loved ones may now have to
'die together' with me.'
He added: 'I don't even know if I have the money to return to the
university for my convocation end of this month. I can't bring myself
to think of what's next.'
Originally posted by eagle:Like that, you use CFD to trade blue chips also can liao -.-"
I still remember the case where the student that studied in Australia and made $80k after he graduate from trading bank stocks, only to lose it all plus his dad's retirement money and still owe his broker $200+k....
I don't trade wif a vengeance aka going into forex wif a fixed mentality that I am going to short/long on that day(which apparently a lot of pple do).
I don't put all my eggs in one basket. I dabble thru the diff currency pairs so I don't get burnt.
I don't think this is illegal, but I do trade for my dad too. So what I do is, when I buy on the EUR/USD pair, I sell the equivalent on my dad's account for the same pair. This virtually negates any possible loss. So I see which one makes the profit for me. For the account that makes the loss, I wait for it to go back up.
This doesn't happen when I have that feeling that the currency pair is hopeless ala now when EUR/USD just sank to its lowest, same wif the CHF pair on the USD.
For now I just buy. For sure it will go up. And that is using less than 25% of my general equity, so even if it went 100pips lower it wouldn't severly affect my trading portfolio(and needing to top-up).
Your strategy sounds good. Well, as long as it works for you :)
It's not illegal I think. There's a similar strategy being used for options trading as well, called straddling.
However, I'm not the type to trade that much. I prefer to build up funds from active income and pump into dividends generating equities. Simply don't have the time to monitor any forex accounts. Don't think I make as much as you though, but for 2009, I managed to realised 9k worth of gains through dividends and capital appreciation... Not sure how to talk about principal capital, because I pump in my savings every month if there's value and reasons in doing so.
So far for 2010, it wasn't very bad. I managed to realised 2k+ from a stock that my reason for buying does not stand anymore. My expected dividends this year is another 6k+... so more or less for 2010 is confirmed near 8k to 9k gain also... excludes any unrealised capital gains...
Originally posted by Junyang700:RHB Bank Fixed Deposit
1.25% with 36 months deposit. =)
Any min. requirement? eg) $100,000 above for 1.25%?
My advise to babel is that, if you don't want to go thru the long procedure of setting up a forex acct and having to monitor it, just go to your moneychanger to buy EUR/CHF now.
Spend about $1800 and you should get around 940Euros. That was the rate which I got just recently. I do this for cold, hard cash so that I have actual value in my hands. This also helps coz I'm going to Europe soon and the EUR is damn low now haha!
Swiss Franc is something like 1.359 the last I checked. SGD$135 should get you about 100Francs at moneychangers.
This is if you have about SGD$2k on hand rite now and don't want to go thru the trouble of setting up an account.
Originally posted by likeyou:
Any min. requirement? eg) $100,000 above for 1.25%?
If you have that amount of capital, I recommend you trade instead of leaving your cash in the bank. Do note that inflation is around 3 to 5% yearly, and 1.25% will not allow you to recoup that "loss" even after years. Putting your money in the bank is not always as good as what you think, especially in Singapore where the interest rates are lower than the inflation rates.
what forex trading platform do you use?
Philip FX365
and the cost involved?
Originally posted by nowork:and the cost involved?
You just have to set up an account wif them.
The rest is you put in capital.
no commission etc 1 meh? i got friends who is recommending me some automated forex trading system. every month need pay 48euro. but payment is done once half yearly. so startup cost would be 288 euros.
Originally posted by nowork:no commission etc 1 meh? i got friends who is recommending me some automated forex trading system. every month need pay 48euro. but payment is done once half yearly. so startup cost would be 288 euros.
There is commission involved. But I don't really bother about it.
Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:My advise to babel is that, if you don't want to go thru the long procedure of setting up a forex acct and having to monitor it, just go to your moneychanger to buy EUR/CHF now.
Spend about $1800 and you should get around 940Euros. That was the rate which I got just recently. I do this for cold, hard cash so that I have actual value in my hands. This also helps coz I'm going to Europe soon and the EUR is damn low now haha!
Swiss Franc is something like 1.359 the last I checked. SGD$135 should get you about 100Francs at moneychangers.
This is if you have about SGD$2k on hand rite now and don't want to go thru the trouble of setting up an account.
Good advice on starting. My cousin does this with few hundred bucks instead of 1k.
Lowest risk on forex plays...
Alternatively, you can always put into foreign currency fixed D (min 5k) in our local banks. But I have never tried it... So far, my dividend investing strategy has been working ok for me... I think at my rate, should be able to achieve 2k plus average monthly before 30 in dividend income....
thanks for all the advice:) although the technical aspect of forex sounds very 'chim' to me..
Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:I don't trade wif a vengeance aka going into forex wif a fixed mentality that I am going to short/long on that day(which apparently a lot of pple do).
I don't put all my eggs in one basket. I dabble thru the diff currency pairs so I don't get burnt.
I don't think this is illegal, but I do trade for my dad too. So what I do is, when I buy on the EUR/USD pair, I sell the equivalent on my dad's account for the same pair. This virtually negates any possible loss. So I see which one makes the profit for me. For the account that makes the loss, I wait for it to go back up.
This doesn't happen when I have that feeling that the currency pair is hopeless ala now when EUR/USD just sank to its lowest, same wif the CHF pair on the USD.
For now I just buy. For sure it will go up. And that is using less than 25% of my general equity, so even if it went 100pips lower it wouldn't severly affect my trading portfolio(and needing to top-up).
and what if things go sour by 1000 pips or more ?
you can close out the winning side but the losing side may never break even again even if you were to average down several times...............and if you're paying negative swap, situation lagi worse..........
with Dow Jones expectedly to go south now and plus more bad news expected from Eastern European nations (Greece just tip of iceberg), USD will go up in the medium term. i reckon best if you buy Eur/Usd when it's around 1.25 then hold it for long term.
or simply buy Nzd/Usd when it's really low since each pip worth more and better positive swap plus not so volatile as Aud/Usd.
any good lobangs to share ?
Originally posted by nowork:no commission etc 1 meh? i got friends who is recommending me some automated forex trading system. every month need pay 48euro. but payment is done once half yearly. so startup cost would be 288 euros.
forget about those robots..........they'll never work in the long term, forex is a most sickening thing...........every year things are hugely different so robots may work work a couple months and then it'll start to lose money and then you'll be recommended another robot..............on and on and on.............
why wouldnt robots work in long run?
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
and what if things go sour by 1000 pips or more ?
you can close out the winning side but the losing side may never break even again even if you were to average down several times...............and if you're paying negative swap, situation lagi worse..........
with Dow Jones expectedly to go south now and plus more bad news expected from Eastern European nations (Greece just tip of iceberg), USD will go up in the medium term. i reckon best if you buy Eur/Usd when it's around 1.25 then hold it for long term.
or simply buy Nzd/Usd when it's really low since each pip worth more and better positive swap plus not so volatile as Aud/Usd.
any good lobangs to share ?
As I have said, I am willing to take such risk and also, I am that kind of person who is willing to hold my position for longterm gains.
DJ is expected to go down, but the EUR will go up(longterm), together with the Swiss Franc(the reason why it suddenly plunged was prolly because Libya pulled out investments and assets from Switzerland due to a dispute).
I know Greece is just the tip of the iceberg, but should the other governments rake in spending and also cut public debt slowly their economies will reflect positive results.
Portugal is making small steps and also Spain is taking its move to cut debt seriously.
According to my plotted graphs and charts the EUR/USD will not plunge to 1.25, at the most 1.28. It shouldn't be that bad.
In any case, I have my plans.
Originally posted by nowork:why wouldnt robots work in long run?
the only people making money from robots are those selling them................the markets are very different from year to year plus it's too dynamic for a robot to work.............example - prices now move several times quicker than just a few years ago and respond too much to Dow...........
just another note: if our forex portfolio is worth; say 50 k.. is it possible to translate this sum into cold hard cash? Sry for this idiotic question:)