I can't spot any difference. I heard somewhere that the engine sound was different.
But i watched videos of both from YouTube and couldn't spot any difference.
Most differences are subtle, generally they are the same.
Subtle differences include the door designs (spacing of windows) and the over-the-head panels.
Originally posted by Call4ljw:I can't spot any difference. I heard somewhere that the engine sound was different.
But i watched videos of both from YouTube and couldn't spot any difference.
Smoother skin for C651s, the C151 one was found to be too rough and traps dust easily. The C651 uses a GTO-VVVF propulsion system, while the C151 uses a GTO Thyristor motor.
C651s' windows have a greenish tint.
One more question, what type of engine does a C151 use?
Diesel Engine. Not.
Electric. The builders are by Kinki Car Corporation, now Kinki Sharyo Co. Ltd (近畿車輛), Kawasaki Heavy Industries (å·�å´Žé‡�å·¥æ¥), Nippon Sharyo (æ—¥æœ¬è»Šè¼Œè£½é€ ) and Tokyu (not Tokyo) Car Corporation (æ�±æ€¥è»Šè¼›è£½é€ ). It is not uncommon for Japan trains to share same sepcifications, yet made by different manufacturers. Kinki Car Corporation is in Kinki Region (Osaka), Kawasaki and Tokyu Car Corporation in Kanto Region (Tokyo), Nippon Sharyo in the Chobu Region (Nagoya).
I suspect the motors are by a same company. It may not be surprising to find motors all made by Hitachi. But Hitachi is not a mainline train builder so they may be providing parts only.
Originally posted by Call4ljw:One more question, what type of engine does a C151 use?
To my understanding, the C151 (Series 0/100) trains use GTO-Thyristor controllers coupled with DC motors. GTO stands for Gate-turn off Thyristor.
VVVF capable controllers produce a high pitched sound like the C651 and North East Line Alstrom trains. VVVF stands for Variable Voltage Variable Frequency.
IGBT-VVVF trains are the trend now, due to the fact that IGBT controllers 'switch on' much faster than the traditional GTO controllers. IGBT stands for Insulate-gate Bipolar Transistor. IGBT-VVVF trains are able to accelerate 2.5-3.5 km/h/sec, while traditional GTO trains are about 1.5-2.5km/h/sec.
Originally posted by Call4ljw:I can't spot any difference. I heard somewhere that the engine sound was different.
But i watched videos of both from YouTube and couldn't spot any difference.
EXTERIOR
1) C651 looks cleaner and whiter. Green-tinted glass windows.
2) For the trip number on the train, C151 - plastic roller and C651 - green flip dot (similar to TIBS bus top display)
3) C151 and C651 have diff. door opening sound.
4) SMRT logo at the sides: C151 mrt logo is about halfway between car edge and door. C651 mrt logo is closer to the car edge. i.e. further away from the door than c151
INTERIOR
1) Look for the number. The 2nd no. for C151 is either 0 or 1. For c651, it's 2 (being 2nd-generation trains).
2) Glass windows. For C651 Siemens trains, it's made in Germany, so the glass is made there too. At the lower corners, you should be able to see the word 'Glastroch' imprinted on the glass. Greenish tint (as mentioned above).
3) Aircon vent. C151 uses aluminium( or some metal?) and it's stained due to ageing. C651 uses PVC (or plastic, I think).
4) For C651 doors, the windows are spaced further apart than in C151 doors.
5) Door handles inside. C151 have door handles screwed onto the door. C651 doesn't have anything screwed on the door. Just an indent for door handle.
6) At the bottom near the door, C651 has black flooring strips. C151 does not.
7) Side glass panels. C151 is flat-top. C651 is triangular at the top, and it extends higher up.
8) Top lights. The C151 has squarish little boxes on the glass cover while C651 looks plain.
9) Seats. At seat edges just before doors, C651 has an additional vertical metal strip (in addition to the bottom horizontal one) which is not found in C151.
10) Metal grab poles. C151 metal poles have round larger bases at the tips not found in C651.
11) Panel for ads: C151 panel is more rounded at the edges (and has more curves and more 'shapely') but C651 is more angular and 'sharp'. Not to mention C651 top ad panels don't 'protrude out' as much as C151.
12) MRT has two glass panels for one window section right? Observe the centre divider of the two panels. C151 has a 'connector' screwed onto the centre divider. C651 has nothing screwed on; just a clean vertical line separating the two.
ENGINE
1) C151 - chopper control and C651- GTO. Different sounds. Just take it and listen, especially during acceleration / deceleration.
Originally posted by kench-an:1) C151 - chopper control and C651- GTO. Different sounds. Just take it and listen, especially during acceleration / deceleration.
C651-GTO-VVVF
C151-GTO Thyristor
Originally posted by ^tamago^:er, motor, not engine.
oops. sorry. often mistakenly mix the two terms
Originally posted by Scania:C651-GTO-VVVF
C151-GTO Thyristor
thanks. but what's the difference exactly?
i thought it was chopper control since it was from wiki.
Originally posted by kench-an:
thanks. but what's the difference exactly?i thought it was chopper control since it was from wiki.
And what is chopper control?
Chopper control, never come across the term before.
Scania's explanation is the model answer liao lols...
Originally posted by Scania:C651-GTO-VVVF
C151-GTO Thyristor
Actually both are about the same, due to the GTO.
It doesn't really matter whether Thyristor or VVVF, need IGBT then got difference.
But don't know why, C651 and C751B same max speed. VVVF only what, still GTO!
Originally posted by Call4ljw:Actually both are about the same, due to the GTO.
It doesn't really matter whether Thyristor or VVVF, need IGBT then got difference.
But don't know why, C651 and C751B same max speed. VVVF only what, still GTO!
The GTO-VVVFs found on the 1997/8 MTR A Stock (Airport and Tung Chung Line, Manufactured by Adtranz-CAF) can run up to 135 kph, while the 1979/80 M stock (Manufactured by Metro-Cammell, predecessor of Alstom), which uses GTO-Thyristor can only run up to 95 kph, about the same speed as our C151s. Thats also the reason why they brought the A Stock, they wanted a faster ride to the airport.
It really depends on what the rail company needs, there are also GTO-Thyristors which can go up to 130kph.