Originally posted by Samuel Lee:I dont believe they must close the station because how difficult is it to do this stage?
Step 1 (Day 1): demolish the nearby wallsStep 2 (Day 2): remove the old tracks and insert a new one (How long is it gonna take, not 50 mins job, but surely 5 hours is enough). If not then it means EWL / NSL will end the train service earlier (Say by 10pm last train) and start later (First train on 6:30am and not 5:45am)
Step 3: Install the traffic lights. (May do together with Step 2)
Tada! Finish le.
BTW, BBT SB? There is no crossover from NB to SB except at Bukit Gombak, which is.......
Note: BBT SB also not possible, because the JEMP need connect the new platform / track to BBT SB. So, in the end all trains terminate at Bukit Gombak like "ALJ LTE" and then maybe put 2 trains from 2 platform special services from BGB - BBT (So BBT's 2 platform are same de) and bus bridge from BBT to JUR
Step 1 already finish.
Originally posted by ngyk:Looks like connecting the tracks poses a challenge for the workers…....most likely temporary closure of Jurong East station.
of course it poses a challenge. installing new tracks and switches involve the installation of signalling stuff, and all these deal with heavy equipments and lots of electronical stuff. high safety precautionary measures have to be taken in any situation like these.
Originally posted by ngyk:Looks like connecting the tracks poses a challenge for the workers…....most likely temporary closure of Jurong East station.
The main problem is not closing the station, is how the trains go without being affected, i mean EB and NSL got most trouble de.
I think they have planned it before the commence of the work. I believe it is a challenge, but it is possible. I never say such thing can be done within an hour, but I dont believe it need to close the ENTIRE DAY. This is not like Harbourfront - Outram Park and the impact is minimal. It involves 2 lines and peak hour how?
The solution to this is easy: 1 day prior the change of tracks, they just end the train service early, say instead of 11:45pm or 12am, they end by 10pm or even 9:30pm, like that the peak hour have gone le so its ok. Then they start the service slightly later on the next day, such as 6:45am first train instead of 5:45am (Like that got about 8 ~ 9 hours, still not enough? My foot!). 6:45am is choosen because it is nearest to peak hour. Sure, students will be affected but most students do not take trains (Except teritary ones).
OR
They do not install new tracks @ e same time. Meaning the EWL batch (The end connecting EWL) do first, like that wont affect NSL. And the NSL may do it separately.
In case you guys not happy on how to implement this, it is actually easy.
Step 1: First 2 trains after the last revenue train will park themselves in Joo Koon overrun
Step 2: The next 4 trains will go to Chinese Garden, Lakeside, Boon Lay and Pioneer EB platform respectively.
Step 3: Careful plan must be made, such that some time later, all trains end at Clementi and do a return trip in UPD crossover. (So no more new trains stuck in this Western portion)
Step 4: JKN WB overrun (Future will be heading Tuas) train will be the first one heading to UPD via WB track. JKN EB overrun train will be the next one, which it will crossover to WB.
Step 5: All the remaining trains will do a crossover from EB track - WB platform. And they use WB platform to head to UPD.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:I dont believe they must close the station because how difficult is it to do this stage?
Step 1 (Day 1): demolish the nearby wallsStep 2 (Day 2): remove the old tracks and insert a new one (How long is it gonna take, not 50 mins job, but surely 5 hours is enough). If not then it means EWL / NSL will end the train service earlier (Say by 10pm last train) and start later (First train on 6:30am and not 5:45am)
Step 3: Install the traffic lights. (May do together with Step 2)
Tada! Finish le.
BTW, BBT SB? There is no crossover from NB to SB except at Bukit Gombak, which is.......
Note: BBT SB also not possible, because the JEMP need connect the new platform / track to BBT SB. So, in the end all trains terminate at Bukit Gombak like "ALJ LTE" and then maybe put 2 trains from 2 platform special services from BGB - BBT (So BBT's 2 platform are same de) and bus bridge from BBT to JUR
Step 2 - Do it on 19 June (Eastbound only), from 0055 hrs to 0505 hrs (4h 10 min).
For northbound, can do from 0030 hrs to 0500 hrs (4h 30 min).
For southbound, can do from 0055 hrs to 0515 hrs (4h 20 min).
Step 3, please take it seriously. Everything will do in September, October or November.
Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:Step 2 - Do it on 19 June (Eastbound only), from 0055 hrs to 0505 hrs (4h 10 min).
For northbound, can do from 0030 hrs to 0500 hrs (4h 30 min).
For southbound, can do from 0055 hrs to 0515 hrs (4h 20 min).
Step 3, please take it seriously. Everything will do in September, October or November.
if the removing and welding cannot be stopped once it begins, I think a staggered schedule like this is better. though I believe they will still need to end services early and start services later the next day. 4h is pretty tight.
very uncharacteristic of singapore to make things so disruptive to need bus bridging services for the entire day.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:The main problem is not closing the station, is how the trains go without being affected, i mean EB and NSL got most trouble de.
I think they have planned it before the commence of the work. I believe it is a challenge, but it is possible. I never say such thing can be done within an hour, but I dont believe it need to close the ENTIRE DAY. This is not like Harbourfront - Outram Park and the impact is minimal. It involves 2 lines and peak hour how?
The solution to this is easy: 1 day prior the change of tracks, they just end the train service early, say instead of 11:45pm or 12am, they end by 10pm or even 9:30pm, like that the peak hour have gone le so its ok. Then they start the service slightly later on the next day, such as 6:45am first train instead of 5:45am (Like that got about 8 ~ 9 hours, still not enough? My foot!). 6:45am is choosen because it is nearest to peak hour. Sure, students will be affected but most students do not take trains (Except teritary ones).
OR
They do not install new tracks @ e same time. Meaning the EWL batch (The end connecting EWL) do first, like that wont affect NSL. And the NSL may do it separately.
In case you guys not happy on how to implement this, it is actually easy.
Step 1: First 2 trains after the last revenue train will park themselves in Joo Koon overrun
Step 2: The next 4 trains will go to Chinese Garden, Lakeside, Boon Lay and Pioneer EB platform respectively.
Step 3: Careful plan must be made, such that some time later, all trains end at Clementi and do a return trip in UPD crossover. (So no more new trains stuck in this Western portion)
Step 4: JKN WB overrun (Future will be heading Tuas) train will be the first one heading to UPD via WB track. JKN EB overrun train will be the next one, which it will crossover to WB.
Step 5: All the remaining trains will do a crossover from EB track - WB platform. And they use WB platform to head to UPD.
At point 1: The TO how? Sleep in the train?
Originally posted by yellowflip999:At point 1: The TO how? Sleep in the train?
walk the track back to joo koon station, but i suppose not on the third rail "white color"
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:The main problem is not closing the station, is how the trains go without being affected, i mean EB and NSL got most trouble de.
I think they have planned it before the commence of the work. I believe it is a challenge, but it is possible. I never say such thing can be done within an hour, but I dont believe it need to close the ENTIRE DAY. This is not like Harbourfront - Outram Park and the impact is minimal. It involves 2 lines and peak hour how?
The solution to this is easy: 1 day prior the change of tracks, they just end the train service early, say instead of 11:45pm or 12am, they end by 10pm or even 9:30pm, like that the peak hour have gone le so its ok. Then they start the service slightly later on the next day, such as 6:45am first train instead of 5:45am (Like that got about 8 ~ 9 hours, still not enough? My foot!). 6:45am is choosen because it is nearest to peak hour. Sure, students will be affected but most students do not take trains (Except teritary ones).
OR
They do not install new tracks @ e same time. Meaning the EWL batch (The end connecting EWL) do first, like that wont affect NSL. And the NSL may do it separately.
In case you guys not happy on how to implement this, it is actually easy.
Step 1: First 2 trains after the last revenue train will park themselves in Joo Koon overrun
Step 2: The next 4 trains will go to Chinese Garden, Lakeside, Boon Lay and Pioneer EB platform respectively.
Step 3: Careful plan must be made, such that some time later, all trains end at Clementi and do a return trip in UPD crossover. (So no more new trains stuck in this Western portion)
Step 4: JKN WB overrun (Future will be heading Tuas) train will be the first one heading to UPD via WB track. JKN EB overrun train will be the next one, which it will crossover to WB.
Step 5: All the remaining trains will do a crossover from EB track - WB platform. And they use WB platform to head to UPD.
i really waiting for the day for it to happen. it will be something very different for the first time including many logistics needed for this big project.
Originally posted by yellowflip999:At point 1: The TO how? Sleep in the train?
There always a Plan B (Modified from your query)
Example: The last train for EB from in Joo Koon is 10pm
So, assuming from Clementi - Joo Koon takes 15 minutes
Then, the train may park there for 5 minutes
In total it means by 9:40pm, the last EB train from Joo Koon should be in Clementi ready to depart and head towards Jurong East.
And thus any train after 9:40pm in Clementi will be a DNB, either do a turnaround for EB in approaching UPD or directly sleep in UPD
But, the problem is Clementi is a crowded station, so does Boon Lay. It effectively suggest the last train from Pasir Ris to Joo Koon is about 8:30pm to 9pm, which kind of difficult.
But there is a Plan C.
Any train after 9:40pm will have a special train bridging service from Clementi - Lakeside and Lakeside - Joo Koon.
We will first talk about Lakeside - Joo Koon, since it is easier.
For this, both platform will presume as normal, since Lakeside got a Tandem crossover (Same as Boon Lay, except Boon Lay's is before the station and Lakeside is after it, in terms of WB). Special staff logistic is needed in Lakeside to tell passengers the train is heading either Clementi or Joo Koon.
Since there are 4 stations, I presume they can deploy 4 to 6 for it (Joo Koon's distance is quite long).
Then the Clementi - Lakeside is more tricky.
Due to lack of crossover before Lakeside (In terms of WB), most likely they will provide a bus bridging service OR provide only 1 train from Clementi - Lakeside (But the frequency will be like every half an hour per train). Since the entire route has no crossover for Lakeside - Clementi, so it is really not possible to do much.
Trains terminate at Jurong East EB
Middle platform for NSL
There would be 6 trains plying Jurong East - Joo Koon
a) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Jurong East EB and Chinese Garden EB
b) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Chinese Garden WB and Lakeside WB
c) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Lakeside EB and Boon Lay EB
d) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Boon Lay WB and Pioneer WB
e) 2 trains would be serving as a shuttle in between Pioneer EB and Joo Koon.
Frequency
a) 5 mins / train
b) 5 mins / train
c) 5 mins / train
d) 3 mins / train
e) 4 mins / train
At night, all trains would return to UPD via crossover to UPD
NSL trains would go to BSD or some crossover from city hall NSL to raffles place EW
Morning
Trains from depot go from WB tracks.
Till Boon Lay
2 trains will crossover to Boon Lay EB and go to Jurong East EB and Lakeside EB.
The other 2 trains would proceed to Joo Koon EB and 1 train would go to Pioneer EB
The other trains behind park at their respective locations
Originally posted by Dragonaxe:Trains terminate at Jurong East EB
Middle platform for NSL
There would be 6 trains plying Jurong East - Joo Koon
a) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Jurong East EB and Chinese Garden EB
b) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Chinese Garden WB and Lakeside WB
c) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Lakeside EB and Boon Lay EB
d) 1 train would be serving as a shuttle in between Boon Lay WB and Pioneer WB
e) 2 trains would be serving as a shuttle in between Pioneer EB and Joo Koon.
Frequency
a) 5 mins / train
b) 5 mins / train
c) 5 mins / train
d) 3 mins / train
e) 4 mins / train
At night, all trains would return to UPD via crossover to UPD
NSL trains would go to BSD or some crossover from city hall NSL to raffles place EW
Morning
Trains from depot go from WB tracks.
Till Boon Lay
2 trains will crossover to Boon Lay EB and go to Jurong East EB and Lakeside EB.
The other 2 trains would proceed to Joo Koon EB and 1 train would go to Pioneer EB
The other trains behind park at their respective locations
This cannot work
1: The NSL sector will also need to change the tracks as well. (Ok, I did not my solution there)
2: Lakeside got a tandem crossover, thus the c,d,e is quite wasteful in resource, especially between Pioneer to Joo Koon has no crossover, except before Joo Koon terminus. Why not do a Joo Koon - Lakeside direct train, where the Lakeside bound train from Joo Koon will terminate in EB platform followed by a crossover to WB when returning to Joo Koon. Lakeside WB platform can be used as terminus for Chinese Garden WB platform - Lakeside shuttle train and Chinese Garden EB platform can connect to Jurong East EB. The WB platform can serve as a shuttle train to Clementi WB. (But only 1, where the rest do a turnaround in Clementi / UPD)
My suggestion for NSL
1: End ther service early, say 10pm last train at Bukit Gombak. After 10pm, all trains from Marina Bay will end at Bukit Gombak, use the crossover towards Bukit Batok, so that the majority of the line is unaffected.
2: 1 shuttle train from BGB - BBT and 1 shuttle train from BBT - JUR middle track.
The BGB - BBT will be used in NB platform and BBT - JUR will be using SB platform instead.
Reasoning:
The crossover from NSL to JEMP-ed platform is added in the crossover used in morning peak hour track. Thus, at night time, the platform / track is essentially unused. So it can be done without affecting much. It is the NB side, it crossover onto a main line, thus the BBT NB platform has to be closed.
Regarding trains being DNB, they might just as well:
A) Increase the number of Ang Mo Kio bound train (After AMK, it is a DNB)
B) Use middle track to get everybody's back off. I think they can do so in CGL Tanah Merah / AMK LTE, so can they in Jurong East.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:My suggestion for NSL
1: End ther service early, say 10pm last train at Bukit Gombak. After 10pm, all trains from Marina Bay will end at Bukit Gombak, use the crossover towards Bukit Batok, so that the majority of the line is unaffected.
2: 1 shuttle train from BGB - BBT and 1 shuttle train from BBT - JUR middle track.
The BGB - BBT will be used in NB platform and BBT - JUR will be using SB platform instead.
My suggestion is a no to shuttle sevice , it will not benefit the other passengers at other stations and cost of running is high. SMRT wouldn't want to make a loss.
Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:My suggestion is a no to shuttle sevice , it will not benefit the other passengers at other stations and cost of running is high. SMRT wouldn't want to make a loss.
But i think Closing Down the Station Would make Huge Losses For SMRT too to send Bus Bridge Service
Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:My suggestion is a no to shuttle sevice , it will not benefit the other passengers at other stations and cost of running is high. SMRT wouldn't want to make a loss.
plying a few trains (about at most 6) on certain sectors means high cost? Why? How about CGL shuttle train?
any sort of train shuttle has to be JKN-CLE. any others increases the complexity of scheduling and heightens chances of delays since the plans are so precise. what's more, it will be a lot of planning for something that will only last for a weekend or two.
passengers would not bother with the trains if they had to alright and wait for the next train in such a short segment either.
if this was done on a weekend, I believe it will be more beneficial for commuters if a bus bridging service is operated. it is very possible to run buses along the entire length of the line from JKN-CLE and fro. there wont be any jams (except a little while for the traffic light along Upper Jurong Road near Jurong Point) and is less disruptive.
only problem should be the volume of passengers. but any shuttle train service will result in poor frequencies anyway, with the added problem of multiple transfers and further delays if any train fail to keep to schedule.
this is especially when frequencies are poor and with so many people packed into a train, boarding and alighting time will become unpredictable. it is a vicious cycle with trains becoming increasingly off schedule due to the delays.
Should JEMP close JUR only after distance fares,SMRT can send shuttle buses that commuters have to pay for.this way,distance fares allow them to continue their journeys.
Trains going to Joo Koon will crossover to the middle platform(NSL) And head towards Marina Bay Instead.
Trains from the NSL terminating at Jurong East goes to the EB platform and another TO will drive it towards Chinese Garden.
Trains going to Joo Koon between Jurong East and Joo Koon would be using the EB platform
Trains going to Pasir Ris between Jurong East and Clementi would be using the WB platform.
Can Work anot?
Originally posted by SBS9231S:But i think Closing Down the Station Would make Huge Losses For SMRT too to send Bus Bridge Service
I didn't say close down the station.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:plying a few trains (about at most 6) on certain sectors means high cost? Why? How about CGL shuttle train?
What about the passengers at CCK , YWT , etc?
Originally posted by deskoh91:any sort of train shuttle has to be JKN-CLE. any others increases the complexity of scheduling and heightens chances of delays since the plans are so precise. what's more, it will be a lot of planning for something that will only last for a weekend or two.
passengers would not bother with the trains if they had to alright and wait for the next train in such a short segment either.
if this was done on a weekend, I believe it will be more beneficial for commuters if a bus bridging service is operated. it is very possible to run buses along the entire length of the line from JKN-CLE and fro. there wont be any jams (except a little while for the traffic light along Upper Jurong Road near Jurong Point) and is less disruptive.
only problem should be the volume of passengers. but any shuttle train service will result in poor frequencies anyway, with the added problem of multiple transfers and further delays if any train fail to keep to schedule.
this is especially when frequencies are poor and with so many people packed into a train, boarding and alighting time will become unpredictable. it is a vicious cycle with trains becoming increasingly off schedule due to the delays.
If it is a JKN - CLE, then u might as well no shuttle train, just run like normal. (Cannot right?)
Originally posted by Dragonaxe:
Trains going to Joo Koon will crossover to the middle platform(NSL) And head towards Marina Bay Instead.
Trains from the NSL terminating at Jurong East goes to the EB platform and another TO will drive it towards Chinese Garden.
Trains going to Joo Koon between Jurong East and Joo Koon would be using the EB platform
Trains going to Pasir Ris between Jurong East and Clementi would be using the WB platform.
Can Work anot?
No. In fact the JEMP does not mod the WB side but EB side and NSL SB side (Along with NSL JUR bound - EB track, which is most likely not in use except morning peak hours).
And there is no EB - Middle platform crossover track due to height issue.
Just a note: If the work had affected the morning peak hour special train service track, then I can say the entire section is heavily haywired. (Coz even if the train park in middle track and proceed forward, they will still meet the mod of EB track, unless the 3 points -- NSL NB - EB crossover, NSL SB, EWL EB side are do it at different timings)
Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:What about the passengers at CCK , YWT , etc?
Ok, 6 trains for EWL sectors and 2 trains (At most 3) in NSL sector
1 train from BGB - BBT (At most 2, 1 on each platform, for quicker to reach BBT Town Centre) and the other 1 from BBT - JUR (Due to NSL SB track is modding, so the shuttle train has to use NB / JUR bound tracks.)
Another suggestion:
JKN - LKS will run per normal, and 2 trains from each platform will ply the service from Lakeside - Jurong East (So to reduce frequency time) and 1 train from JUR WB will ply between CLE - shuttle train JUR. Like that will minimze the impact.
Basically this is what happen back in Japan when track need to be changed due to grade separation project.
- Train service ends earlier than usual. (Commuters are notified of the temporary closure)
- Workers start work on the changing of tracks and switch.
- Intensive testing of system begins after completion of "track changing"
- First train start service later in the morning than usual
- Workers standby on track while first revenue train crosses the track changed
- Monitor region closely for a while before everything return to normal (Train may travel through the region slightly slower than usual)
Originally posted by E5:Basically this is what happen back in Japan when track need to be changed due to grade separation project.
- Train service ends earlier than usual. (Commuters are notified of the temporary closure)
- Workers start work on the changing of tracks and switch.
- Intensive testing of system begins after completion of "track changing"
- First train start service later in the morning than usual
- Workers standby on track while first revenue train crosses the track changed
- Monitor region closely for a while before everything return to normal (Train may travel through the region slightly slower than usual)
RM doing crossover, but u risking safety for convenience