C151, Refurbished C151, C751B
Or is it the same?
Doesn't feel same to me.
For me, i feel that C151 acceleration is fastest.
You may include NEL if you wan. :)
Did a small comparison before, but also not very accurate =x
Originally posted by Call4ljw:C151, Refurbished C151, C751B
Or is it the same?
Doesn't feel same to me.
For me, i feel that C151 acceleration is fastest.
You may include NEL if you wan. :)
Did a small comparison before, but also not very accurate =x
How to compare? we can't go into the driver cab.
Originally posted by Call4ljw:C151, Refurbished C151, C751B
Or is it the same?
Doesn't feel same to me.
For me, i feel that C151 acceleration is fastest.
You may include NEL if you wan. :)
Did a small comparison before, but also not very accurate =x
C751 is the fastest. Infact, C151 the slowest.
C751Bs are shiok! but the C151 refurbished aren't bad too...didn't liked the C651, for their announcement system is way too soft
Originally posted by nenepokey:C751Bs are shiok! but the C151 refurbished aren't bad too...didn't liked the C651, for their announcement system is way too soft
C151R and C751B all got nice A/C vent/ducts. =D
C751B got this technology called VVVF, it allows the train to run actually at a max of 120km/h but they cannot let this happen because they are not supposed to crash into their slowpoke C151s or C651s that run max 80km/h. So all C751Bs have been set to run at max 80-85km/h.
Originally posted by Oceane:
C151R and C751B all got nice A/C vent/ducts. =DC751B got this technology called VVVF, it allows the train to run actually at a max of 120km/h but they cannot let this happen because they are not supposed to crash into their slowpoke C151s or C651s that run max 80km/h. So all C751Bs have been set to run at max 80-85km/h.
Which of these is the Siemens one?
Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
Which of these is the Siemens one?
C651
NEL. It uses pantograph (which reduces friction and increases speed), and has a Alstom ONIX IGBT-VVVF, which means like other VVVF systems (GTO-VVVF and IGBT-VVVF), it can easily beat anything using a GTO thyristor.
Perhaps the most interesting thing VVVF inverters has brought about is the wonderful noises it can make as compared to a thyristor system (compare a C751B sound with C151 sound, there is something like a howl in the C751B), especially if its a Siemens GTO-VVVF, whereby a piano sound is made.
Originally posted by Scania:NEL. It uses pantograph (which reduces friction and increases speed), and has a Alstom ONIX IGBT-VVVF, which means like other VVVF systems (GTO-VVVF and IGBT-VVVF), it can easily beat anything using a GTO thyristor.
Perhaps the most interesting thing VVVF inverters has brought about is the wonderful noises it can make as compared to a thyristor system (compare a C751B sound with C151 sound, there is something like a howl in the C751B), especially if its a Siemens GTO-VVVF, whereby a piano sound is made.
Hiss. xD
Pssssssssssssssssss ~
Originally posted by Scania:NEL. It uses pantograph (which reduces friction and increases speed), and has a Alstom ONIX IGBT-VVVF, which means like other VVVF systems (GTO-VVVF and IGBT-VVVF), it can easily beat anything using a GTO thyristor.
Perhaps the most interesting thing VVVF inverters has brought about is the wonderful noises it can make as compared to a thyristor system (compare a C751B sound with C151 sound, there is something like a howl in the C751B), especially if its a Siemens GTO-VVVF, whereby a piano sound is made.
You are well versed in electronics regarding trains. Good point there.
Another thing learnt from my lecturer who dealt with SMRT trains is that the GTO (Gate-Turn Off Thyristor) controls take more time than the IGBT (Insulated-Gate Bi-Polar Transistors) controllers to control voltage and current to the motors. Whereas the fastest speed wise is not really in control, the acceleration for VVVF (Variable Voltage Variable Frequency) systems, and of course IGBT-VVVF, are the best.
In Japanese Shinakansen (Bullet train), the first generation uses the GTO system, the JNR 0 series, managing only a modest 1.0km/hr/sec acceleration. Now, with IGBT-VVVF controllers, the newer series (JR Kyushu Series 800) can hit 3.0km/hr/sec acceleration. That is 0-60km/h in 20 seconds flat with constant acceleration!
GTO came about quite some years back, originally as a voltage control system in motive powers. IGBT systems came about in the 90s if I am not wrong, and generally come into use on trains when their size came down due to technological advancements. Thanks to IGBT systems, its much faster in terms of voltage and current control nowadays.
What I have here is only what I got information from lecturer and Japanese system books. Feel free to share if you have to add on. :D
Originally posted by ^tamago^:The hiss and psst is the release of compressed air out of the suspension system.
And yes! Siemens is very famous for the piano sounds! But I prefer the quietness of the C751B over C651.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uoLCprCGH78
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AhqvHMqXUic
Still got, electric locomotive Siemens Taurus: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=m1utpxU6gJQ
The link as provided by Scania, i would guess that it is using a GTO-VVVF due to the "paino" sound. But at the same time, if true then why the acceleration so slow?
Originally posted by Call4ljw:The link as provided by Scania, i would guess that it is using a GTO-VVVF due to the "paino" sound. But at the same time, if true then why the acceleration so slow?
It was a locomotive hauling passenger carriages, of course accleration would be slower. If you had searched through Youtube, you would find one video of the same train model which did 1-120 in seconds.
I only managed to find the 357km/h one.
Can you provide the link for the 1~120? Thx
Originally posted by Oceane:
C151R and C751B all got nice A/C vent/ducts. =DC751B got this technology called VVVF, it allows the train to run actually at a max of 120km/h but they cannot let this happen because they are not supposed to crash into their slowpoke C151s or C651s that run max 80km/h. So all C751Bs have been set to run at max 80-85km/h.
So why did they purchase only 21 trainsets of C751B?
And since they currently refurbishing C151, why didnt they take the chance to change the C151's engine to VVVF too?
From Wiki : The engine components have been retained, having performed better than expected
Although change to VVVF maybe cost quite abit, BUT if overall speed of SMRT increase, most problems(about SMRT) will disappear.And in the long term, could cost lesser.
It is only meant for Changi Airport Line, Boon Lay Extension and slight fleet expansion. Why is there a need to buy more than you can stable?
The current C151 trains can only run for another 10 years. Why change the driveline? If we were to change it, we might as well get new body and new chassis for the trains. But there is no such necessity for new trains at this time.
The C751B's had VVVF only because it is the best and possible the only technology available at that time.
Our MRT system is also not designed to run above 80km/h, due to other factors like station-to-station distance. It is limited not just because trains may collide, but because the system design speed is that. A whole fleet of C751B's won't change things drastically, you know.
Erm just wondering, is this train C751B?
Nope. This train is made by Mitsubishi and ROTEM. C751B is made by Kawasaki Heavy Industries.
Originally posted by bus555:Erm just wondering, is this train C751B?
So everything with a Mitsubishi IGBT-VVVF system becomes a C751B :S ?
So going by your logic, Japan has like C751Bs all around the place? :S
Especially when its obvious that its a K-Stock from the title of the video.
Originally posted by bus555:Erm just wondering, is this train C751B?
This is not a C751B.
But judging from the link by NickL_C151, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTR_K-Stock_EMU
it could be that the engine is same(or almost;even sound also quite close).
Wiki : MTR_K-Stock_EMU
modern 2-Level 3300V-1200A-IGBT (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor) VVVF Inverter from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.
Wiki : C751B
Control system : VVVF IGBT inverter
not much details but i suspect could be same(suspect only^^).
Originally posted by Call4ljw:This is not a C751B.
But judging from the link by NickL_C151, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTR_K-Stock_EMU
it could be that the engine is same(or almost;even sound also quite close).
Wiki : MTR_K-Stock_EMU
modern 2-Level 3300V-1200A-IGBT (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor) VVVF Inverter from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.
Wiki : C751B
Control system : VVVF IGBT inverter
not much details but i suspect could be same(suspect only^^)
Both are using Mitsubishi IGBT-VVVF, the only difference is that MTR uses 1500V while SMRT uses 750V.
Originally posted by NickL_C151:Nope. This train is made by Mitsubishi and ROTEM. C751B is made by Kawasaki Heavy Industries.
C751B was made by both KHI and Nippon Sharyo.
For easier reference, just label them as KNS trains.
K = Kawasaki
N = Nippon
S = Sharyo
The this comfirm it is a C751B train if I am right
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ob8Wl338o2U&feature=related