Enjoy shorter waiting time and more comfortable train rides
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Originally posted by SBS n SMRT:
i know wrong forum but must say that SMRT should rectify their buses as what they had did for their trains, btw, NEL frequrency was bad
To Pongool
Next train:10 minutes
Subsequent train: 20 minutes
I believe, when u see this, its towards the last few trips. Or very early in the morning..There is no way that NEL freq would hit 10mins as they are set at 4mins (peak) and 6mins(off peak).
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Originally posted by Oceane:
Hopefully not... SMRT places SWT by the radius of the areas that the lunch croud would most likely go to... no point starting SWTs in far away places like Boon Lay because it would be a waste of resources.Think about it..
How big can the lunch crowd be ?? -
Don't forget they have a pending application to increase fares.
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Originally posted by Oceane:
Like what carbikebus said, SBST NEL personnel and Sentosa's Monorail systems all consult SMRT Corporation on courses and heavy maintanence on trains.
If SMRT is ever so great, must they borrow maintanence trains to help build the Boon Lay extension ? -
Originally posted by Oceane:
Like what carbikebus said, SBST NEL personnel and Sentosa's Monorail systems all consult SMRT Corporation on courses and heavy maintanence on trains.It may seem unbelievable to some people who are anti-SMRT (Not just anti-SPH, but they choose to generalise and anti the whole SMRT Corp). But it's time we smack the truth on their faces.
Want the truth? SBST is doing better in both rail transport and bus, and Comfort/Yellow Cab is doing better than SMRT (in fact all other taxi companies are).
First things first, maintenance has nothing to do with service quailty, in this case, frequency. I do admit that some SMRT personnel at some stations are helpful (note: some, which makes me wonder how they got their award, although apparently you have to apply for the award). This excludes situations when maintenance affects daily operations (ie service distruptions). And also that those companies do go to LTA for courses.
According to newspaper reports, on that Jan distruption at Tampines, people had no clue as to where to go. Ask station staff, but recieved confusing information. Shuttle buses were nowhere to be seen (ok lah, they came after a pathetic 5 mins). Compare this with the ST/ZB picture of the Oct 97 Toa Payoh switch incident, ST/ZB had a photo of a line of SBS buses waiting outside Bishan station.
The Jan distruption also shows something, so what if they give maintenance courses to other companies, they aint doing things right themselves. Luckily the $387,176 fine given wasn't successfully appealed.
For those with a interest in satire, listen to Mr Brown show about SMRT's win of the award.
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Originally posted by Scania:
Want the truth? SBST is doing better in both rail transport and bus, and Comfort/Yellow Cab is doing better than SMRT (in fact all other taxi companies are).
First things first, maintenance has nothing to do with service quailty, in this case, frequency. I do admit that some SMRT personnel at some stations are helpful (note: some, which makes me wonder how they got their award, although apparently you have to apply for the award). This excludes situations when maintenance affects daily operations (ie service distruptions). And also that those companies do go to LTA for courses.
According to newspaper reports, on that Jan distruption at Tampines, people had no clue as to where to go. Ask station staff, but recieved confusing information. Shuttle buses were nowhere to be seen (ok lah, they came after a pathetic 5 mins). Compare this with the ST/ZB picture of the Oct 97 Toa Payoh switch incident, ST/ZB had a photo of a line of SBS buses waiting outside Bishan station.
The Jan distruption also shows something, so what if they give maintenance courses to other companies, they aint doing things right themselves. Luckily the $387,176 fine given wasn't successfully appealed.
For those with a interest in satire, listen to Mr Brown show about SMRT's win of the award.
When all 3 operators were separate entity, SMRT Corp has the freedom to utilise any bus company, be it SBS or TIBS, during disruption. During major disruptions like the 1999 derailing at Bishan, both companies were activated. However, then they became multimodal, they are responsible for their own bridging services, which SMRT shows serious lapse due to lack of buses and drivers.
At the very least, we should give credit to SMRT for asking SBS Transit to help during the 21 Jan disruption. If not I think the situation would have been worst with the fleet size of bridging services halved.
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Originally posted by Agenda:
Don't forget they have a pending application to increase fares.
YAY. pay more to squeeze more. who wouldnt mind?
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Originally posted by sBs_boy:
In the morning, try taking the NEL then you transfer to the EWL. You can see whole lot of difference.
Yes, SMRT did try to do something.. More train trips ?? i do agree theres more. BUT....
Before :
@ BB Stn during Evening Peak
6mins Freq
Now :
@ BB Stn During Evening Peak
7mins - Marina Bay
4mins - Yew Tee
7mins - Marina BayMany times, there is no way that you are able to board the 1st train bound for marina bay. Usually u have to wait for a few trains before u can board. So, by adding in more trains that are doing SWT, does it actually help a communter ? I would say no as majority of the ppl are travelling beyond YT (from BB that is). They use to have SWT that ends at AMK. Not now.. Instead of helping communters to enjoy a more "comfortable" ride, it actually makes communters suffer even more.
There are around 3-5 AMK-terminating trips from Southbound Jurong every weekday evening. They come from the Yew Tee SWT that ends at around 6.30pm. Though I'm unsure if the number has decreased. -
Originally posted by sBs_boy:
If SMRT is ever so great, must they borrow maintanence trains to help build the Boon Lay extension ?
But I've never mentioned that SMRT was a perfect company. They do have their own flaws too. I was merely quoting a fact that was posted somewhere else. -
Originally posted by Scania:
Want the truth? SBST is doing better in both rail transport and bus, and Comfort/Yellow Cab is doing better than SMRT (in fact all other taxi companies are).
First things first, maintenance has nothing to do with service quailty, in this case, frequency. I do admit that some SMRT personnel at some stations are helpful (note: some, which makes me wonder how they got their award, although apparently you have to apply for the award). This excludes situations when maintenance affects daily operations (ie service distruptions). And also that those companies do go to LTA for courses.
According to newspaper reports, on that Jan distruption at Tampines, people had no clue as to where to go. Ask station staff, but recieved confusing information. Shuttle buses were nowhere to be seen (ok lah, they came after a pathetic 5 mins). Compare this with the ST/ZB picture of the Oct 97 Toa Payoh switch incident, ST/ZB had a photo of a line of SBS buses waiting outside Bishan station.
The Jan distruption also shows something, so what if they give maintenance courses to other companies, they aint doing things right themselves. Luckily the $387,176 fine given wasn't successfully appealed.
For those with a interest in satire, listen to Mr Brown show about SMRT's win of the award.
I do believe that the topic on "which is better" comes from personal opinions. There is no absolute hard concrete evidence to show that SMRT sucks and SBST rocks. Even for the January incident, how far can one show that SMRT sucks?
I believe, the only way to show how good a company is is to conduct public surveys on the general public. I'm not sure how the public have perceptions of both transport companies, but their feedback is like gold for any company that wishes to improve their service.
True enough, people request for more trips during peak hour and lunchtime, SMRT gave it to them.
In the past there were people complaining about SBST's frequency too. SBST implemented them too.
However, do note that SBST's 7 minute block frequency can be so accurate due to their computerised systems. SMRT drivers base on a system that only shows them the timing they should arrive at the next station that is in the driver's cab. If the TO stops too long at a station due to a vast amount of passengers boarding, he'll be late the rest of the journey.
I'd like to open a question here, to anyone, if they have seen how SBST trains operate, and how they are able to achieve this 7 minute block-frequency so accurately (of course, not mentioning their dual-communication system between train and OCC).
I'm not trying to glorify SMRT's name here, neither am I condemning SBST. They do have their own flaws and good sides, but it is just that how the public perceives them. I've said it before, many many times, that there are a fixed number of trains running on service on the NSL or the EWL. So if Train A and B have a long waiting time apart, Train B and C will have a shorter time. Someone asked a stupid question before, to me, and asked if trains do disappear halfway through their journey, during off-peak, that is. Answer is NO. A big NO NO. The number of trains on the NSL during off-peak that runs full round trips remain at 19 since last year, I'm not sure if it has been increased. So it does not make any sense if anyone were to be so biased enough and say that SMRT operates trains at 10-minute frequency throughout. The whole length of the NSL (in terms of minutes) is 61x2 + 2x2 (stopover time at terminus stations) which is 126 minutes. Divide that by 19 trains running throughout and you get an average of 6.63 minutes. Hence if a train differs from the next by 10 minutes, the next will differ from the next next by 7- (10-7). It works both ways.
Someone pointed out before that yes, SMRT trains fetch a larger percentage of the population to work than SBST trains, and I have to admit that SMRT has not been able to see that their 7 minute block frequency is outdated. It's high time they reduce it to 3.5 to 4.5 minute differences.
To many, it seems that everytime they ask for more trips, it doesn't come immediately. I can understand their frustrations, but a point I wish to highlight is that SMRT only has 106 trains running throughout 3 lines (NSL, EWL and CGL) and at any time of the day, like buses, there will be at least 2 in each of the 3 depots that are doing servicing, and following the refurbishment plan 4 will be in Bishan Depot at any time. It means 10 trains will be off the list, which gives 96. Minus that by 2-3 trains on the CGL and you get 93. 93 to be shared by 2 lines gives 46.5. Note that this is the maximum number you get assuming no train otherwise suffers breakdowns.
46 trains per line can operate, but the cost will be very high. I believe the ideal number during off peak should be set at 25-29, with peak hours an addition of 10. 29 trains for off peak means that trains operate at 4.3 minute frequencies which is already very good.
So my point here is, it will take some time for SMRT to evaluate the situation and give the best and most beneficial and effective change to the train system to try to help resolve the crowding problems. Of course people argue that "why not just put trains running throughout the whole-day", but my question is, "are you willing to absorb the rise in cost"? SMRT has to think of dual effects on their decisions; 1) the passengers and 2) their shareholders. By absorbing $5 million from the addition of 360 train trips during lunchtime it is already a disadvantage on them. If they were to run full day train trips on 3 minute frequencies it would totally kill them. Yes, they earn massive amounts of profits every year, but they go to 1) maintanence of trains and tracks, 2) salaries for their employees and 3) payout to shareholders. There can be more, I assure you.
Note that I use NSL as an example because it is deem more populated than the EWL because it gives direct links to the city.
To ZP (sBs_boy): Your 90-second frequency claim has to be either when SMRT just started and only had very few stations to operate or you were talking about peak hour. Peak hour possible to have 90-second frequency for a stretch of stations, but off-peak it isn't possible for full round trips. Your response to SBS2695H seems to imply that in the past, SMRT operated trains whole-day at 90-second frequencies. Which is not possible unless you were talking about in the 1980s or early 1990s when train service just begun and there was lesser number of stations throughout. Even so, they only had 66 C151 trains and their C651 trains only came in during the period of 1994-1995. Not possible otherwise simply because if you were to add the total travelling time on both lines (126 + 128 on the EWL in minutes) and divide that by 1.5 minutes you get 169 trains, which exceeds the 106 train-fleet SMRT has.
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Originally posted by sBs_boy:
When it was under MRT Corp, trains were running at 90sec freq. Things change and now they are running at 7mins freq.
Back then it was a stat boardnow it's commercialised
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This Afternoon sighted:
- 1 Empty train @ Bishan 018/017
- 1 Refurbish Train coming out of Bishan Depot towards Ang Mo Kio
- 1 Train @ the middle platform in Ang Mo Kio Station (forgot the car no)
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i guess they are trying to make things better and more efficient.
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SMRT may have bumped up the number of train trips during the lunchtime hours from noon to 2.30pm.
However, most commuters exiting at Toa Payoh say they don't feel a difference in waiting time.
Of the ten MRT passengers travelling on the North-South line between Ang Mo Kio and Marina Bay stations, only two said they felt that the waiting time was cut short.
About four minutes. It is a bit spacious and more frequent from Novena to here.
The other eight said the additional train trips made little or no difference.
There wasn't any difference because I basically waited about three minutes, which was the normal waiting time anyway. But there was a difference in the sense that the trains were not as packed as previously and that could have resulted from the fact that they've increased their frequency la. If like what they've said, that they've increased their frequency by don't know how many trips? Then there should be a great difference. It should be a minute or two or something like that. That should be the maximum we should wait.
SMRT is running 700 more train trips than usual from today so as to ease crowded train cabins and to cut short waiting times.
They've dedicated the bulk of the additional rides, that's about 350 extra trips, to the lunchtime slot on the North-South line and on the East-West line between Aljunied and Outram Park.
They're also adding more trips to the morning and evening peak hours.
Such extra trips will cost them about $5 million a year, but SMRT says the cost will not be passed on to commuters. - 938 Live
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Dun #$~! when fares up in the future.
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Originally posted by Manager433:
Dun #$~! when fares up in the future.
Ah Saw alrdy mulling fare hike liaoEven MediaCorp also mentioned abt tis together w/ e additional trips news
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I wonder how over-overcrowded Jurong East & Boon Lay will be...
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Which is not possible unless you were talking about in the 1980s or early 1990s when train service just begun and there was lesser number of stations throughout. Even so, they only had 66 C151 trains and their C651 trains only came in during the period of 1994-1995. Not possible otherwise simply because if you were to add the total travelling time on both lines (126 + 128 on the EWL in minutes) and divide that by 1.5 minutes you get 169 trains, which exceeds the 106 train-fleet SMRT has.
I do agree on your part that there were less stations in the past..Do rememeber that they only had 66 trains back then. When Woodlands Extension opened, there was 19 Siemens trains bought ? Even if that was enough, an additional 21 trains were bought and put into service in 2001. With such, you could see that the 66 kawasaki was bought for the initial network. 19 for the woodlands loop and so for the 21 3rd Gen, it was for a fleet increase. With such, i dont understand why they still cant achieve a lower frequency.
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Middle platform at AMK had trains running to Marina Bay nowadays during lunch hour. :o
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Channel NewsAsia - 46 minutes ago
SMRT adds 700 extra train trips a week, costing it S$5m annually
SINGAPORE: SMRT is increasing the number of train trips by at least 700 a week to cut commuters’ waiting time and provide them with a more comfortable ride.
A common complaint by MRT passengers is that it gets very crowded at peak periods and on many occasions, commuters are not able to get on the train.
In February, 83 more train trips per week had been added. Now, SMRT is introducing even more trips.
More than 50 per cent of these will be during weekday lunch times (noon—2pm), when waiting time will be halved to just three—and—a—half minutes, SMRT said.
Improvements are also expected for those who go home later after work and those who go out on Friday evenings.
Vincent Tan, Vice President, Rail Operations, SMRT Trains, said: "We have added train trips where possible so that the average trainload is not more than 1,200 passengers.
"The added services will also mean that the trains will arrive within five minutes or less if the passenger loads are within 1,000 and 1,200 passengers."
SMRT said they are already operating at the best intervals of two minutes at the peak within peak and cannot improve this any further, for now.
However, a few commuters were concerned that fares would go up with the increased trips.
In a month’s time, SMRT plans to increase frequency on weekends, for those travelling to and from town and the suburban areas.
SMRT promises that there will be a train arriving every five minutes when trains are packed.
The additional train trips have been rolled out at the most congested stations during lunchtime — between the Ang Mo Kio and Marina Bay stations on the North—South line, and the Outram Park and Aljunied stations on the East—West line.
The additional train trips are expected to cost SMRT an additional S$5 million yearly. — CNA/vm
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Originally posted by sBs_boy:
I do agree on your part that there were less stations in the past..Do rememeber that they only had 66 trains back then. When Woodlands Extension opened, there was 19 Siemens trains bought ? Even if that was enough, an additional 21 trains were bought and put into service in 2001. With such, you could see that the 66 kawasaki was bought for the initial network. 19 for the woodlands loop and so for the 21 3rd Gen, it was for a fleet increase. With such, i dont understand why they still cant achieve a lower frequency.
C751Bs were bought for Changi Airport extension and fleet increase.There simply isn't enough trains to go about serving the people. Who ask SMRT Corp never calculate properly beforehand.
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The above discussions have so far centred on the achievable frequencies, calculated based on run times and train fleet size. Other discussions picked on SBST's ability to maintain an optimal off-peak frequency (6 mins) and taking offence with SMRT's 7 mins.
We've been focusing on the hardware required to operate the trains, but nobody has mentioned on the manpower requirements. With the extra train trips, SMRT too is facing a shortage of train operators, just like our buses. The 7 min frequencies could be due to them cutting away full day shifts (which requires 2 operators) and replaced them with a single split shift. And SBST, being a driverless system, faces no such limitations and hence does not require such measures.
A 90-sec peak frequency is possible going by the hardware, but not when manpower is concerned unless all of us here become train operators.
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Originally posted by sv966:
The above discussions have so far centred on the achievable frequencies, calculated based on run times and train fleet size. Other discussions picked on SBST's ability to maintain an optimal off-peak frequency (6 mins) and taking offence with SMRT's 7 mins.
We've been focusing on the hardware required to operate the trains, but nobody has mentioned on the manpower requirements. With the extra train trips, SMRT too is facing a shortage of train operators, just like our buses. The 7 min frequencies could be due to them cutting away full day shifts (which requires 2 operators) and replaced them with a single split shift. And SBST, being a driverless system, faces no such limitations and hence does not require such measures.
A 90-sec peak frequency is possible going by the hardware, but not when manpower is concerned unless all of us here become train operators.
This is actually another point that can explain the efficiency on SBST and SMRT.
SBST does not require train operators; only station operators to look after many trains at a go. However SMRT requires TOs to manage the trains in terms of doors and announcements even though the speed, stopping distance and other technology are computerised. With the advantage SBST has, it can actually deploy more trains without fear of having manpower shortages whereas SMRT has to look into shortages of manpower. Unless SMRT can figure a way to let all their trains be fully computerised, this manpower problem will continue to haunt the respective three depots for a long time.
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Originally posted by sv966:
The above discussions have so far centred on the achievable frequencies, calculated based on run times and train fleet size. Other discussions picked on SBST's ability to maintain an optimal off-peak frequency (6 mins) and taking offence with SMRT's 7 mins.
We've been focusing on the hardware required to operate the trains, but nobody has mentioned on the manpower requirements. With the extra train trips, SMRT too is facing a shortage of train operators, just like our buses. The 7 min frequencies could be due to them cutting away full day shifts (which requires 2 operators) and replaced them with a single split shift. And SBST, being a driverless system, faces no such limitations and hence does not require such measures.
A 90-sec peak frequency is possible going by the hardware, but not when manpower is concerned unless all of us here become train operators.
I think u have forgotten that SBST do have to deploy 1 Customer Service Staff onboard each train. No matter what, if they want to increase the additional trips, they do face the problem of manpower too.
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I see that many people don't take NEL regularly......