HBO series : The Pacific
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Originally posted by Hitman+:
araphoe,
missed part one of pacific......
finally this lost thread came back!!!
......me thirst blood along wiv technology.u gimme war wiv some mujahideen in pajamas..i would rather miss it completely.read a book or something. needs excitement.
there is this movie that was probably produced back in 96 its a bunch of CIA and Special forces operatives gone into Afghanistan for a mission the entire team got decimated by UFO.....
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though both are produced by the same names, i think bob(band of brothers) is very different from the pacific.
bob more diverse, with an overview of major battles( loved the episodes on bastonge, darn nice) while pacific, like araphoe said, is purely character driven.
3 episodes in and so far, there's nothing impressive about james badge dale's performance as leckie. too filled with cliches and "looking into the far out distance lost in untold misery" kind of shots.
it's like he knows he is acting. quite contrived. the 'madness of war' is so overrated here. made worse by his performance. it's a tough act and they got the wrong cast for this role.
hopefully when the story moves towards eugene's experience in combat, some form of sincerity can set in. but then again i could be bias,
he bears a striking resemblance to Private Joker (Modine) in Full Metal Jacket.oh and the opening titles and visuals are really beautiful, it's a very well packaged piece of work.
"what do you get in guadacanal? nothing but jungle rot and malaria."
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Originally posted by Hitman+:
dun get it.....they started showing it last week.....what happened to part 2?????!!!!wha????could they have 2 episodes in a week???goin to check tv programmes for the week.....
just sign up for the on demand thingy, can watch all episodes you missed for free.
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Originally posted by Joolead:
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace.
Rifleman's Creed written by Maj Gen William Henry Rupertus during the pacific war
This is my rifle. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my rifle and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen.
seen and heard in full metal jacket.
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have you seen the next series coming up? 'THE TEKONG'. Its a story of a platoon of men's mission to make it to the enemy's medical centre to report sick and get MC.
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Originally posted by soleachip:
though both are produced by the same names, i think bob(band of brothers) is very different from the pacific.
bob more diverse, with an overview of major battles( loved the episodes on bastonge, darn nice) while pacific, like araphoe said, is purely character driven.
3 episodes in and so far, there's nothing impressive about james badge dale's performance as leckie. too filled with cliches and "looking into the far out distance lost in untold misery" kind of shots.
it's like he knows he is acting. quite contrived. the 'madness of war' is so overrated here. made worse by his performance. it's a tough act and they got the wrong cast for this role.
hopefully when the story moves towards eugene's experience in combat, some form of sincerity can set in. but then again i could be bias,
he bears a striking resemblance to Private Joker (Modine) in Full Metal Jacket.oh and the opening titles and visuals are really beautiful, it's a very well packaged piece of work.
"what do you get in guadacanal? nothing but jungle rot and malaria."
i think maybe the movie leap into the war without introducing a little bit more on the few characters in the movie.
Stephen Ambrose had a good perspective of the European history and BOB devoted first episode on Taccoa Georgia to get to know the men. The men stayed all the way till the end of the War. That was mighty impressive.
Let me know your thought on Peleliu...
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
i think maybe the movie leap into the war without introducing a little bit more on the few characters in the movie.
Stephen Ambrose had a good perspective of the European history and BOB devoted first episode on Taccoa Georgia to get to know the men. The men stayed all the way till the end of the War. That was mighty impressive.
Let me know your thought on Peleliu...
only watched until episode 5.
can't really comment on the historical accuracy and geographical depiction for the battles but it is very possible to leap right into the action without compromising character development.
transition has been made very smoothly by writers/directors such as michael mann (action films, watch The Insider). imo too much money spent on art and production design for The Pacific, limited $ on brainwork for screenplay.
In bob, notice before every new action, we're given an overview of the entire operation, maps, plans, meetings, wide shots while in The Pacific, these are ommitted and replaced by poorly drafted scenes and dialogue.
testimonials in BOB are also a lot stronger, evoked more emotions. In The Pacific they seem disjointed and sparse. some barely even lasting 10 seconds. inspite of the best intentions, this screenplay is quite bad. hence audiences are confused.
nothing to do with leaping right into the story.
or perhaps, because stephen e ambrose himself has passed and unable to co produce and maintain the consistency n integrity.
peleilu so far has rather exciting combat battles in terms of action, but still, the lines are bad. not much soul. Leckie, Sledge and Basilone's personal experience in the war are supposed to be the focus in The Pacific, sadly they were quite poorly shown. especially Leckie.
Leckie's conversation with Eugene at night with references to Kipling and God, Eugene's scene with his pal by the beach, they're all fit for war films with cliches in 1950, not the 21st millenium.
i'm looking forward to Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The big eyed bugger who dugged out the Japanese's gold tooth sure can act. am looking forward to future episodes. hopefully it gets better from now. :D and by the time Basilone returns to war, there's some decent improvement.
I still like BOB. watch Bastogne. one of the best screenplays and most moving episode written ever. took them only 1.5 episodes to make us feel the medic.
it's always the screenplay that makes or breaks, nothing to do with showing things in chronological order or giving characters air time with proper introduction. done with my longwinded post.
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didn't read helmet under my pillow, neither did i read eugene sledge's third person account of the war but i think in The Pacific, they may be trying to do more with material that's so much thinner and less acclaimed than Ambrose's works. hence the backfire. like you said, Ambrose had good perspective.
will definitely pick up these titles soon. maybe then will be able to appreciate The Pacific for what it's worth. so far the only thing I've read by ambrose is lewis and clark's great voyage and it's rather well written.
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Originally posted by soleachip:
only watched until episode 5.
can't really comment on the historical accuracy and geographical depiction for the battles but it is very possible to leap right into the action without compromising character development.
transition has been made very smoothly by writers/directors such as michael mann (action films, watch The Insider). imo too much money spent on art and production design for The Pacific, limited $ on brainwork for screenplay.
In bob, notice before every new action, we're given an overview of the entire operation, maps, plans, meetings, wide shots while in The Pacific, these are ommitted and replaced by poorly drafted scenes and dialogue.
testimonials in BOB are also a lot stronger, evoked more emotions. In The Pacific they seem disjointed and sparse. some barely even lasting 10 seconds. inspite of the best intentions, this screenplay is quite bad. hence audiences are confused.
nothing to do with leaping right into the story.
or perhaps, because stephen e ambrose himself has passed and unable to co produce and maintain the consistency n integrity.
peleilu so far has rather exciting combat battles in terms of action, but still, the lines are bad. not much soul. Leckie, Sledge and Basilone's personal experience in the war are supposed to be the focus in The Pacific, sadly they were quite poorly shown. especially Leckie.
Leckie's conversation with Eugene at night with references to Kipling and God, Eugene's scene with his pal by the beach, they're all fit for war films with cliches in 1950, not the 21st millenium.
i'm looking forward to Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The big eyed bugger who dugged out the Japanese's gold tooth sure can act. am looking forward to future episodes. hopefully it gets better from now. :D and by the time Basilone returns to war, there's some decent improvement.
I still like BOB. watch Bastogne. one of the best screenplays and most moving episode written ever. took them only 1.5 episodes to make us feel the medic.
it's always the screenplay that makes or breaks, nothing to do with showing things in chronological order or giving characters air time with proper introduction. done with my longwinded post.
i have to agreed that screen play is not as good as BOB i wonder is it because of CG technology.....I know that the Peleliu set was a model completely came out from Australia.
I notice Peleliu + 0 there was a Japanese beach bunker they did not show how that was attack kinda of skirt thru....equally on Peleliu part 6. There is a lot of chop battle field scene again. But you have to agree that Asia beach front are much smaller as compare to the Atlantics seaboard....so if you only film the landing you can't see the enemy.....other than getting shot at.
add on:
But I got a sense that the pacific is really about focusing on the Human toll as compared to the War...maybe that was what the WWII Veteran wants to protray the scars.
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Originally posted by soleachip:
didn't read helmet under my pillow, neither did i read eugene sledge's third person account of the war but i think in The Pacific, they may be trying to do more with material that's so much thinner and less acclaimed than Ambrose's works. hence the backfire. like you said, Ambrose had good perspective.
will definitely pick up these titles soon. maybe then will be able to appreciate The Pacific for what it's worth. so far the only thing I've read by ambrose is lewis and clark's great voyage and it's rather well written.
i read 3 of ambrose books and actually following up on Burma campaign.
Actually i don't understand why our govt plus MY and the UK does not fund a historical correct movie on the fall of MY, SG and Burma. This war is well documented and certainly this subject would generate to alot of interest to the the UK, Burma, India, MY, SG, Australia, New Zealand. and of course Japan.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
i have to agreed that screen play is not as good as BOB i wonder is it because of CG technology.....I know that the Peleliu set was a model completely came out from Australia.
I notice Peleliu + 0 there was a Japanese beach bunker they did not show how that was attack kinda of skirt thru....equally on Peleliu part 6. There is a lot of chop battle field scene again. But you have to agree that Asia beach front are much smaller as compare to the Atlantics seaboard....so if you only film the landing you can't see the enemy.....other than getting shot at.
add on:
But I got a sense that the pacific is really about focusing on the Human toll as compared to the War...maybe that was what the WWII Veteran wants to protray the scars.
maybe it lacks literary perspective, thus no emotional depth in terms of dialogue, atmosphere and acting.
as for camera perspective, the DP has done a pretty decent job with limited landscapes. Imo, it jives with Spielberg’s idea of bringing the war ‘right to your face’ by creating a first person’s perspective through framing.
in episode 5’s beach landing on peleliu, it’s quite common to dehumanize enemies of protagonists (sledge) by only filming from his point of view. in doing so, reduces a fair amount of CGI work and more importantly, enforces distance with Japanese while enhancing audience r/s with the Americans.
but in comparison, I still prefer bob. the engagement between audience and protagonist was seamless, whether literally, or indirectly.
for example, when Winters was forced to kill a teenage German soldier and subsequently, haunted by the memory till end of war. the duality of human nature, the difficult things an ordinary man was made to do in combat, were quite subtly told and clearly felt.
The Pacific, all the more needing this level of personal conflict and depth, so far hasn’t delivered any.
maybe like what most critics say, The Pacific is trying to do too much of everything. pay tribute to the veterans, be historically correct, bullet proof the critics, account for the budget while bringing home the memoirs of Leckie and Sledge.
imo near mid of pre production, Spielberg n Tom Hanks realized the material has gone off key and decided to screw everything and just do what Hollywood producers do best, invest heavily in CG, effects followed by heavy marketing.
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saw P-7 anyone?
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no one is watching liao?
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
i read 3 of ambrose books and actually following up on Burma campaign.
Doubts about ambrose's scholarship:
Another Blow to the Reputation of Stephen Ambrose
The April 26 issue of The New Yorker seems to have added one more nail to the reputation of the late Stephen E. Ambrose, university historian turned hugely popular -—and prolific—author of nonfiction historical narrative. Originally known for his scholarly biographies on Dwight D. Eisenhower and Richard M. Nixon, Ambrose broke into the popular market with Band of Brothers: E Company, 506th Regiment, 101st Airborne from Normandy to Hitler's Eagle's Nest, which was turned into a well-known, and much rebroadcast television series. After he retired from teaching, Ambrose set up a family company, Ambrose-Tubbs, Inc., to help him lead historical tours and work on best sellers about such diverse topics as the Lewis and Clark Expedition, World War II, Crazy Horse, and much more.
In 2002, Ambrose was accused of lifting passages for The Wild Blue: The Men and Boys Who Flew the B-24s over Germany from the work of the historian Thomas Childers. Citing faulty citations, Ambrose apologized, and his publisher promised to put the sentences in question in quotes in future editions. But shortly after, other accusations arose: about passages in books like his Crazy Horse and Custer, Citizen Soldiers, and a volume of his three-volume biography Nixon. Ambrose responded that the relevant material was cited in his footnotes.
Now The New Yorker in an article by Richard Rayner raises new questions about the foundation of Ambrose's academic reputation: his work on Eisenhower. The article says that while Ambrose always claimed to have been asked by Eisenhower to write an authorized biography, in fact he himself asked permission to do so. Further, while he said that he had had numerous long and often personal discussions with the general, he really met him just a few times. The story came to light after officials at the Dwight D. Eisenhower Presidential Library and Museum came across unpublished correspondence.
Ambrose died late in 2002. According to rankings on Amazon.com, his books continue to sell well.—Karen Winkler
http://chronicle.com/blogPost/Another-Blow-to-the-Reputation/23419/
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Actually i don't understand why our govt plus MY and the UK does not fund a historical correct movie on the fall of MY, SG and Burma. This war is well documented and certainly this subject would generate to alot of interest to the the UK, Burma, India, MY, SG, Australia, New Zealand. and of course Japan.
Guess the west doesn't like to film their defeats.
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Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:
Guess the west doesn't like to film their defeats.
it got nothing to do with the west its about looking at the past and honoring those fallen. And also lookin at the past enemy.... -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
it got nothing to do with the west its about looking at the past and honoring those fallen. And also lookin at the past enemy....But those campaigns were british defeats. So they don't like to film defeats.
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pacific war drama remindfs me of The Waltons 2 decades ago.slow moving and in the end makes some kinda sense.............this is a war movie...it sounds like a soap opera that wiped out good movies like the all talk no action 2007 battlestar galactica series .
can u believe if the Stargate SG-1 movie was all talk no action where all of them discuss about their love lives and juvenile anger etc etc and focusiing less of the real action??!!!
maybe i missed out on most of the exciting episodes...i watched the episode on melbourne and the episode on the island where this dude had his bayonet in some japanese dead soldiers mouth.
maybe i should go out and buy the dvd as i do find the colour and scene quite refreshing apart from plenty of talking and less action and i refuse to believe steven spielbergs other episodes have been reduced to another M.A.S.H. equivalent.
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i was thinking....that they want to focus on the human toll. In part there is an unpolular war going on that might be too much to stomach for audience.
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part - 9 okinawa....i guess part 10 sort of wrap up individual lives.....
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i have seen 3/10 of the episodes,i think The Pacific sucks BIG TIME!
I DIDNT SEE ANY FIGHTING JUST DIRTY UNIFORMS AND DEAD SOLDIERS!
i can imagine band of brothers being a movie with the same content.walking into a MASH looking hospital and talking lots with no action and real fire.
in band of bros they had artillery shells....soldiers running,tanks blazing away,hordes of german soldiers ,fighting in a town,real 2 sided views from the enemy as well from the own troops ,even the training days seem to be very realistic on the kind of men they had and they had a real fight ina really beautiful place.
in the pacific, all i saw were men digginbg out gold outa someones head and men showing their butts often.and theres no fight....only cheap talk and dragging their boots in their dirty uniform.seems like the pacific was thought out by a 60 year old woman with no military training.however all these are gratiously coverd up with no brainer uncensored movies like 100 times more gruesome stuff as compared to band of bros.its not dull gruesome stuff of badly mutilated corpses and all small talk that counts ina war movie...........i dont know even where to begin and end with such a half baked film as the pacific.that fil should never even be made.
perhaps time has taken a toll on steven spielberg and tom hanks creative juices or they got the same scriptwriter as the inglorious bastards.
THE PACIFIC I WOULD RATE AS A 4/10 WAR MOVIE.ITS A FLOP FOR A MOVIE AND WOULD DO BETTER IF IT WERE A REMAKE OF THE WALTONS.
its a FLOP as a war movie even though they claimed it was from steven spielberg n tom hanks!
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band of bros however is rated as 7/10 because its more human.more war-like and realistic without even having much people blown up.ive seen it 20 times band of bros and i never get tired of it.
the pacific make me feel like.....is this the end???is the fighting over already???zzzzzzz
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maybe i should email tom hanks or steven spielberg if they need any help on future ww2 movies.
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Go watch the rest of the series.......not all are bad.
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stopped at ep 7, too painful to watch.