The Battle of Red Cliff
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Originally posted by Fatum:
yes, I have watched all three ...... this is the first time I heard "lust caution" or crouching tiger described as having "depth" ....
can you eludicate on the elements that makes "lust caution" full of "depth" for you ? ..... the sex scenes ? .... a naked tang wei ? ....
or what about "red cliff" ? .... zhuge liang fanning his pigeons after their bath ? .... tony leung asking if they'll catch a cold ? ..... I dunno about you mate, but I was laughing at this and many other scenes, as were the rest of the cinema .... or tell me what the gu zheng music sounded like to you ? ..... do you dare say you appreciated the meaningless strummings ? ....
not bad ... maybe we are catching up with bollywood ....
that's what happens when a movie tries to be so many things at once ...... a bollywood style extravaganza ......
still 5/10 !
Ah.... My post didn't appear! Haizz got some rule about first 20 post... rats...
I was about to say "Red Cliff" is utter crap. It's like watching "dynasty warriors" the movie. Who the hell would want to do that when you can just play it at home rather than watch some director play it out on the big screen!
Felt so sleepy after the first 20min but the horrendous direction by John Woo kept me awake with laughter.
Tonnes can be done to salvate this film, firstly, they should just get one scriptwriter to make sure there is proper script continuity! There were areas where there were obvious differences in the manner in which they spoke! One moment, they sound like how people spoke in typical period dramas, the next moment, they sounded like something out of a modern HK film. Super wtf!
The film could also have been a lot tighter. You can probably cut out 1hr of the show and the audience would not have known the difference. So many scenes in that film were damn extra and unnecessary.
Now, the first and easiest thing they can do to improve the show is to kill their sound designer. The sound track just destroys the film, screaming at audience to tell them what this shot and scene is all about. It's like "The Warlords" except way worse. That show was another comedy.
About the depth present in "Lust, Caution" and "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon", let me ask you first then. What did you manage to see in the movie? Was it totally nothing at all apart from the naked sex scenes? After that response, I can go on and give my interpretation on some of the scenes that introduce some depth into the characters and give the film that added dimension from the usual two dimensional movies we see.
Not my intention to troll but to bring out points to discuss.
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Originally posted by Beng Kheng:
Ah.... My post didn't appear! Haizz got some rule about first 20 post... rats...
I was about to say "Red Cliff" is utter crap. It's like watching "dynasty warriors" the movie. Who the hell would want to do that when you can just play it at home rather than watch some director play it out on the big screen!
Felt so sleepy after the first 20min but the horrendous direction by John Woo kept me awake with laughter.
Tonnes can be done to salvate this film, firstly, they should just get one scriptwriter to make sure there is proper script continuity! There were areas where there were obvious differences in the manner in which they spoke! One moment, they sound like how people spoke in typical period dramas, the next moment, they sounded like something out of a modern HK film. Super wtf!
The film could also have been a lot tighter. You can probably cut out 1hr of the show and the audience would not have known the difference. So many scenes in that film were damn extra and unnecessary.
Now, the first and easiest thing they can do to improve the show is to kill their sound designer. The sound track just destroys the film, screaming at audience to tell them what this shot and scene is all about. It's like "The Warlords" except way worse. That show was another comedy.
About the depth present in "Lust, Caution" and "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon", let me ask you first then. What did you manage to see in the movie? Was it totally nothing at all apart from the naked sex scenes? After that response, I can go on and give my interpretation on some of the scenes that introduce some depth into the characters and give the film that added dimension from the usual two dimensional movies we see.
Not my intention to troll but to bring out points to discuss.
okie, at first, I got the impression that you were defending the recent crop of big budget chinese movies, which I put off as confused and meaningless, including this one ..... since now, you did a turn about turn and agreed with me that this is utter crap .... can you answer me first, why do you think the previous movies in this crop, lust, caution, et al, has "depth" ? ... don't throw the question back to me when you can't answer them yourself .....
especially when you think this one's crap too ...
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watch the show already. guan yu role look kinda guniang but understandable since it's hard to find someone to act as battle god.
the movie is kinda impressive but characters role some said questionable. maybe tony leung n takeshi would have switched role (tony as kongming n takeshi as meizhounan) to make it better.
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I shall state the good points first
1) this film is way above many Chinese stuff which were unreal and hogwash. In this film, there was no superman flying, leaping and somersaulting. New standard has been set - good job.
2) the use of virtual reality is nicely done and appropriate. Hell with Jacky Chan who snorted at this technology. He can remains and lives in the 60s Kung Fu era for all we care.
3) the battle formations are real historical record. I remember reading about the tortoise formation and was very puzzled by its description. I mean I can’t imagine how it was carried out. But when I saw the tortoise battle formation, it was like ahh - everything comes together and clicks.
Now the bad points
1) the use of Japanese samurai drumbeat for the war scenes was silly. I mean, why Japanese samurai drum? They should try something Chinese or at least try along what was tried and tested in the movie, The Gladiator – use music to invoke valour and courage.
2) the scene of generals killing many, like superman who can’t die, is silly and unreal.
3) this film has many of historical figures and still they tried to inject humour into the script. This made the show a little out of focus. -
Originally posted by Takumi2eLimit:
ZhuGeLiang was only 20+ during the battle of red cliff. What old are you talking about? Perhaps you should rest more on the history before commenting blindly. Although you are right about your latter.
Yeah, you right. Zhu GeLiang was really a rare man of talent. He asserted himself so much that he died in his early 50s. -
not nice at all.......... and first word i heard in the cinema after the to be continued word is "DIU"
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Originally posted by SkyeLong:
Just watched the show too... I think Takeshi as zhuge kong ming still look abit wrong to me.. As for the rest of the characters, Hu Jun as Zhao Yun and Chang Chen as Sun Quan is quite a good choice :)
Cheng Chen very handsome
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Originally posted by 00011000:
I shall state the good points first
1) this film is way above many Chinese stuff which were unreal and hogwash. In this film, there was no superman flying, leaping and somersaulting. New standard has been set - good job.
2) the use of virtual reality is nicely done and appropriate. Hell with Jacky Chan who snorted at this technology. He can remains and lives in the 60s Kung Fu era for all we care.
3) the battle formations are real historical record. I remember reading about the tortoise formation and was very puzzled by its description. I mean I can’t imagine how it was carried out. But when I saw the tortoise battle formation, it was like ahh - everything comes together and clicks.
Now the bad points
1) the use of Japanese samurai drumbeat for the war scenes was silly. I mean, why Japanese samurai drum? They should try something Chinese or at least try along what was tried and tested in the movie, The Gladiator – use music to invoke valour and courage.
2) the scene of generals killing many, like superman who can’t die, is silly and unreal.
3) this film has many of historical figures and still they tried to inject humour into the script. This made the show a little out of focus.ah good, i needed someone to explain how does the tortoise formation works.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
okie, at first, I got the impression that you were defending the recent crop of big budget chinese movies, which I put off as confused and meaningless, including this one ..... since now, you did a turn about turn and agreed with me that this is utter crap .... can you answer me first, why do you think the previous movies in this crop, lust, caution, et al, has "depth" ? ... don't throw the question back to me when you can't answer them yourself .....
especially when you think this one's crap too ...
Haha. Wah lao, you thrashed the movies in the first place without saying specifically why the movies were not good! So as you had said "...don't throw the question back to me when you can't answer them yourself..." What turn about turn about turn...
Anyway, I'll give my take on the movies and maybe you can come in to really explain why the movies were crap, from your perspective, of course.
Now "Lust, Caution" is perhaps, the more obvious movie that has a lot more going for it than "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" though more messy. The latter, being a lot simpler.
"Lust, Caution"
Every well-told movie has a few layers woven into its visuals and storytelling. There is the "on-the-surface" story arc, the underlying messages or themes explored and the characters whom the audience are able to relate to, understand and experience the context and situation of the film. Basically, story, theme and experience.
Story:
About the anti-japanese underground during the war and how this band of rebels try to kill japanese sympathizers who have betrayed their countrymen. How they grew from a motley band of students to full-fledged underground rebels who deal with espionage and assassinations.
Theme:
There are several here. One is repression. All the characters in the show are so repressed! They strive so hard to wall in their emotions and yet something always leaks through. Moments of weakness are always present, that being human is to express and emote.
There is also the exploration of what is love to the different people. Very much shown in the very painful sex scenes and the female lead's sudden and unexpected turn of heart to warn Tony Leung resulting in the downfall of the rebels.
There's also the something on the human condition, on the selfishness of man. Both the female lead and Tony Leung demonstrates this at the closing part of the film. Not like your typical movie with all the happy endings.
Experience:
The characters grow so much in the film... Just so much. Plus the cinematography in the movie. So much is shown through the subdued quiet moments, the tense air and tone of the characters! There's so much good show and tell rather than the usual "shout-in-your-face" method that trashy movies like "Red Cliff" use. -
Found this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbx9oPfFNFs
Seems that there are some scenes from the amphibious assault i.e. Part 2.
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Originally posted by Beng Kheng:
Haha. Wah lao, you thrashed the movies in the first place without saying specifically why the movies were not good! So as you had said "...don't throw the question back to me when you can't answer them yourself..." What turn about turn about turn...
Anyway, I'll give my take on the movies and maybe you can come in to really explain why the movies were crap, from your perspective, of course.
Now "Lust, Caution" is perhaps, the more obvious movie that has a lot more going for it than "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" though more messy. The latter, being a lot simpler.
"Lust, Caution"
Every well-told movie has a few layers woven into its visuals and storytelling. There is the "on-the-surface" story arc, the underlying messages or themes explored and the characters whom the audience are able to relate to, understand and experience the context and situation of the film. Basically, story, theme and experience.
Story:
About the anti-japanese underground during the war and how this band of rebels try to kill japanese sympathizers who have betrayed their countrymen. How they grew from a motley band of students to full-fledged underground rebels who deal with espionage and assassinations.
Theme:
There are several here. One is repression. All the characters in the show are so repressed! They strive so hard to wall in their emotions and yet something always leaks through. Moments of weakness are always present, that being human is to express and emote.
There is also the exploration of what is love to the different people. Very much shown in the very painful sex scenes and the female lead's sudden and unexpected turn of heart to warn Tony Leung resulting in the downfall of the rebels.
There's also the something on the human condition, on the selfishness of man. Both the female lead and Tony Leung demonstrates this at the closing part of the film. Not like your typical movie with all the happy endings.
Experience:
The characters grow so much in the film... Just so much. Plus the cinematography in the movie. So much is shown through the subdued quiet moments, the tense air and tone of the characters! There's so much good show and tell rather than the usual "shout-in-your-face" method that trashy movies like "Red Cliff" use.cute, did you spend days writing that yourself ? .... or did you stun that from a blog review somewhere ? ....
Oooo ... I trash movies without saying why they were not good ? .... so how can you conclude I watch movies only for the brain rotting special effects ? ..... did you even come across my previous posts ? .....
or is it because you fancy yourself some sort of a film critic, a film expert ? ....
http://sgforums.com/forums/1763/topics/322325
and think your tastes superior to everyone else ? .... so do you think that gives you the right to start saying that other people are rotting their brains by watching movies for the special effects ? ... huh ?
should we all be watching the movies at the substation, huh ? ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
cute, did you spend days writing that yourself ? .... or did you stun that from a blog review somewhere ? ....
Oooo ... I trash movies without saying why they were not good ? .... so how can you conclude I watch movies only for the brain rotting special effects ? ..... did you even come across my previous posts ? .....
or is it because you fancy yourself some sort of a film critic, a film expert ? ....
http://sgforums.com/forums/1763/topics/322325
and think your tastes superior to everyone else ? .... so do you think that gives you the right to start saying that other people are rotting their brains by watching movies for the special effects ? ... huh ?
should we all be watching the movies at the substation, huh ? ....
Haha. "Yes"
*Toy toy toy toy*
Watch more movies dude.
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Originally posted by Beng Kheng:
Haha. "Yes"
*Toy toy toy toy*
Watch more movies dude.
yes that you spent days writing that, or stun it from some blog review, or yes, you think you're damm good at films ? ....
watch more movies ? ... like what ? .... somehting you have shot ? ...
"Slipper Story" huh ? .....
run along dude
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Originally posted by felirox:
during the battle of re cliff Ma chao huang zhong were still not serving SHU. And huan Yu, i tihkn he was somewehere guarding a certain place. Sima yi was years after the battle of red cliff and xiahou dun..not sure..I cant wait for this movie! anyway they should have let a middle aged man to paly zhugeliang's role. takeshi is too young to play tt role.
Zhuge Liang was just recruited by Liu Bei, Zhuge should be under the age of 30 in the battle of the Red Cliff (赤�). -
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
how should zhuge liang act?
i was never a fan of chinese novels, so i don't know this 3 kingdom story. anyone can share?
Wow you want to ppl to share one dynasty of Chinese history in one single forum?
It took me 2 to 3 weeks of non-stop reading to complete the classic - Romance of the 3 Kingdoms.
The battle of red cliff is a real historical fact but only one small backdrop of the vast historical twists and turns of the later Han dynasty. -
just watch on veoh, its quite ok I guess but would be better if they left out those unnecessary scenes. Most of the major characters look and sound the part, the worst one has to be guan yu,doesn't look or sound anywhere close to such a lengendary figure. Best ones are Cao Cao and Zhao Yun,Zhang Fei looks good but that part where he charge into the fray WITHOUT ANY WEAPON is really ridiculous.
Theres too much focus on the generals fighting prowess that looks so much like dynasty warriors game. I also wonder why they need so many generals to fight the ground troops in the second battle, at least they should let Zhou yu stay at the naval camp incase the enemy naval force attacks right?
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takeshi acting as zhuge kongming is very suitable,according to sanguozhi,zhugeliang was just looked like his bro zhugejin,has a long face
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these are the real hot guys of three Kingdom period based on true history records
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羊祜：（美须眉）
程昱：（长八尺三四，虎须髯，世之奇士）
王濬：（美姿颜）
诸葛亮：（身长八尺，容貌甚伟，时人诧异．）
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刘� ：（容貌类于其父（刘表））
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è¢�ç»�：（身æ��é�梧，颇具风度） -
Anyway I think out of the three kingdoms,Wei(caocao)is the best,coz he established relationships with northern ethnic groups.therefore the invasion of wuhu(5 northern namadic groups) were been delayed.As we know,after Jin dyasty(the dynasty after 3kingdom period),the invasion northern nomads caused the deaths of 80 percent of Han chinese.If CaoCao didn't unify the northern Han territory,the invasion of the northern nomads would be even more earlier and as the Han kingdom is in chaos and not united,there wouldn't be any effective resistence to the nomads,so the deaths of Han people would never be just about 80 percent,may be the whole race would be extincted or been forced to escape from the mainland(such as the Sinhalese,the original Northern Indian people were been forced to move to the south by the aryan whites).Or if Cao Cao can unify the 3 kingdoms earlier,the Jin dynasty would even exist in Chinese history and as the Han Kingdom is united,the 五胡乱�,the massacres of Han people caused by the northern nomads wouldn't happen also
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Originally posted by Colby:
Anyway I think out of the three kingdoms,Wei(caocao)is the best,coz he established relationships with northern ethnic groups.therefore the invasion of wuhu(5 northern namadic groups) were been delayed.As we know,after Jin dyasty(the dynasty after 3kingdom period),the invasion northern nomads caused the deaths of 80 percent of Han chinese.If CaoCao didn't unify the northern Han territory,the invasion of the northern nomads would be even more earlier and as the Han kingdom is in chaos and not united,there wouldn't be any effective resistence to the nomads,so the deaths of Han people would never be just about 80 percent,may be the whole race would be extincted or been forced to escape from the mainland(such as the Sinhalese,the original Northern Indian people were been forced to move to the south by the aryan whites).Or if Cao Cao can unify the 3 kingdoms earlier,the Jin dynasty would even exist in Chinese history and as the Han Kingdom is united,the 五胡乱�,the massacres of Han people caused by the northern nomads wouldn't happen also
I agree with your observation. History never records Chief Minister CaoCao as evil but a maverick who admired talent.
It is the later generations thru' poetry, stage wayang, song etc that painted an evil CaoCao. -
Originally posted by 00011000:
Wow you want to ppl to share one dynasty of Chinese history in one single forum?
It took me 2 to 3 weeks of non-stop reading to complete the classic - Romance of the 3 Kingdoms.
The battle of red cliff is a real historical fact but only one small backdrop of the vast historical twists and turns of the later Han dynasty.haha.. too much to ask hor. =x
my chinese is horrendous, so i can't read the story
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
haha.. too much to ask hor. =x
my chinese is horrendous, so i can't read the story
no need to read in chinese ,English version are widely available.
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http://www.razor.tv/site/servlet/segment/main/entertainment/3842.html
John Woo made it to cater for the western audience, no wonder its crappy.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
haha.. too much to ask hor. =x
my chinese is horrendous, so i can't read the story
Read the English one lah ie if you got lots of free time.
You know something? When I read the Romance Of The Three Kingdoms, my hair stood up when I read how Zhu GeLiang defeated 3 times a tribe in ancient China. This tribe had blue eyes and golden (blond) hair.
Interesting hor. Actually history can be interest too, you know.