Do i have the right to refuse officer's demand to see my IC?
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well said, though they are just mere words type out here. But i believe you had your message send to everyone here.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The day that efficiency takes precedence over proper respect for individuals' rights, is a very sad day.
The mindset in Singapore should be that the govt and her agencies are there to serve the people, and it's not an obligation for the people to make their lives any smoother.
That's why it's called Public Service. Somewhere along the line, some figures of authority decided to play God and twist it to ensure the people make the Govt's life better.
I'm not degrading anyone here in particular, just trying to raise some awareness amongst fellow Singaporeans who always think they must not make life hard for the government and actually burden themselves unnecessarily.
Its definately a sad day if what you said came true and i believe that will not be the case. Gone were the days where employee from the Public Service that are autoritive like the old days. If i am not wrong there is a PSO setup under the PMO for employees to understand the change of culture in the Public service.
Well, definately i do agree that everyone have their rights to remain silent or refuse to be check on upon(as of the main concern of this thread). I also believe by not having any burden to oneself is = to make life difficult for the govt. There is always a feedback unit for everyone to raise any concern. And as what they have stated on one of their para(in the PS21 website),
"Singaporeans are now better educated and more informed. They have a stronger desire to be involved in what is happening around them. They are demanding greater discursive space, and a culture which encourages them to express themselves freely, make mistakes, voice diverse views and experiment."
Which i believe the public services itself are aware that they are handling a different kind of public nowadays.
So, i have to agree with MCSquare that, by giving orally to the officers the name and address is sufficient. And of course that the officers can further escertain it by seeing any id shown(if neccessary). If not, its just a mere consensual conversation between the officers and the public(which one can choose to reject). And do please ask for the reasons for the checks, rather then to question the powers and the rights of officers conducting it. Unless the reasons given is not appropriate, then the public can raise their suspicion.
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M©+square
You're in KINs? How's that like? Were you involved in the IMF? I think we saw quite a few KINs around. -
So ... prso, you're not a cop?
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Actually, I believe that we've come a long way from the days when cops could stop citizens willy nilly and demand to see ID. But tough measures were needed in those days when triads roamed more freely. Fighting fire with fire was the only way to beat them. We don't have such triads any more, and they've managed to keep crime low.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The day that efficiency takes precedence over proper respect for individuals' rights, is a very sad day.
The mindset in Singapore should be that the govt and her agencies are there to serve the people, and it's not an obligation for the people to make their lives any smoother.
We're probably the safest city in the world ... in fact, I think we are. I can't think of any other country safer than Singapore. I can't think of any other country where I'd feel safe walking in the streets in the middle of the night.
Ever since they embarked on community policing, they've become more open to questions from the public. They have adapted to the changing times. But old habits die hard and people like qazplm still think they live in the old cowboy town days. His ignorance is by no means a reflection on our police, who I believe are more professional than quite a lot of other police forces. (Any episode of COPS, will give you ample instances of screw ups made by the US cops)Originally posted by LazerLordz:That's why it's called Public Service. Somewhere along the line, some figures of authority decided to play God and twist it to ensure the people make the Govt's life better.
I don't deny that our cops have powers to do ID checks, the inability of some of these posters at identifying these powers does not mean that -
a) our cops have a blanket power to conduct checks any time they want to, or that;
b) the cops have NO power at all, and that they're just a bunch of govt servants who make it a habit to abuse authority. (which is what you believe may be the case here)
Their inability to point out the relevant powers just means that ... they're unable to identify these powers. I just hope these posters are not serving cops. (If they are, I'd seriously advise them to check up on their law ... I'm sure they have books and manuals on these powers)
I seriously don't think the govt has twisted or abused any law. Actually, all one has to do is compare this govt to any govt overseas, and at least one thing becomes clear - this govt solves problems. They seem to be able to do the right thing even if it may hurt them in the polls - that takes balls. I have seen many govts take the more popular road rather than the more appropriate road.
I think mutual cooperation is required here. As far as this case goes, citizens should cooperate with the cops and the cops must conduct themselves professionally. And professionally means knowing their powers and not abusing them.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I'm not degrading anyone here in particular, just trying to raise some awareness amongst fellow Singaporeans who always think they must not make life hard for the government and actually burden themselves unnecessarily. -
So.. are you going to refuse showing your IC next time you're checked ?
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I tink that u must ask them to show u their warrant card. my DMs ish police last time so they told us tht must show their warrant card, and wad is warrant card ar?
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Frm the Statutes.
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_legdisp.pl?actno=1966-REVED-201&date=20070115&method=whole&doctitle=
Arrest and search.
16. —(1) Where any person —
(a) is reasonably suspected by a registration officer or police officer of the commission of any offence under this Act or any regulations made thereunder; or
(b) on demand by a registration officer or a police officer —
(i) does not give his name and address;
(ii) gives a name or address which the officer has reason to believe is false; or
(iii) gives as his address a place outside Singapore,
that person may be arrested without warrant by the registration officer or police officer.
(2) Any police officer may without warrant and with or without assistance —
(a) enter and search any premises;
(b) stop and search any vessel, vehicle, train or individual, whether in a public place or not,
if he suspects that any evidence of the commission of an offence under this Act or any regulations made thereunder is likely to be found on the premises or individual or in the vessel, vehicle or train and may seize any evidence so found.
(3) No woman shall be searched under this section except by a woman. -
There is no obligation for you to show the policeman anything at all, including answering his questions. The policeman must have reasonable grounds for suspecting that you are guilty of an offence before he has any power to demand that you show him your i/c. If he has no grounds whatsoever, you can even tell him to fly kite!Not his ID no and report him!
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but by refusing to furnish your particulars, either verbally or otherwise, wouldn't you be giving more grounds for the policeman to suspect something?Originally posted by :There is no obligation for you to show the policeman anything at all, including answering his questions. The policeman must have reasonable grounds for suspecting that you are guilty of an offence before he has any power to demand that you show him your i/c. If he has no grounds whatsoever, you can even tell him to fly kite!Not his ID no and report him!
And you intend to note down his ID and report him for... conducting a spotcheck, which is part of his job?
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Hmm... it wont be harmful just to show your IC right? Not as our IC's are made of gold or cost us our life... Well ultimately when the officer is in doubt of your identity u still got to show your ic?Originally posted by Tiggerific:but by refusing to furnish your particulars, either verbally or otherwise, wouldn't you be giving more grounds for the policeman to suspect something?
And you intend to note down his ID and report him for... conducting a spotcheck, which is part of his job?
so why not cut the conversation short?
Show, Check than leave... Makes everyone life easier rite? -
Responding to
Sad too say
You HAVE THE RIGHT to REFUSE to show your IC to any Commisioned Officer or any officers of the Singapore Police Force.
BUT (I love BUT the word)By refusing to show your Identity Card to a Police Officer, gives reasonable and valid grounds to the officer that you are concealing a offence. Example, u did not change ur place of residence after 28days moving into that residence. He may also believe that ur persistence in not showing ur IC, may reveal that you are a illegal immigrant, or u did not create a IC by the age of 18, or you are illegally holding onto another person's IC.
Therefore, You still need to show your IC. juz u wan 2 to do it quickly on the spot, or over a cup of coffee in de police center -
You want to make life difficult for the officer and yourself?
Or you just want to show your IC and get the checks done over and quickly. What's the point of wasting yr time with an officer on duty. He must have some reason to check on you.