Do i have the right to refuse officer's demand to see my IC?
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hannor hannor.. if u happened to be ah beng looking then i can confirm u that u will kena slap first lor..then ask u to stand straight straight..Originally posted by Deunamist:U in America?
Singapore got no right to remain silent one lah.
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Serious question... I heard that police questioning sometimes like to twist it so you sound like you're guilty... Do we really have the right to keep quite until a court case has been established or our 48hrs are up?Originally posted by Deunamist:U in America?
Singapore got no right to remain silent one lah.
I got heard from a friend that we have...
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but u hv to know how to TAHAN........Originally posted by MohamedF:Serious question... I heard that police questioning sometimes like to twist it so you sound like you're guilty... Do we really have the right to keep quite until a court case has been established or our 48hrs are up?
I got heard from a friend that we have... -
Hmmm.... endure 48hrs of torture or 1mth++ of jail...Originally posted by Ben_Ng69:but u hv to know how to TAHAN........
Must try leh...
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you have the right not to give your i/c as long he has no valid reason to check on you..
UNLESS - 1. YOU ARE SUSPECTED IN POSSESION OF DRUGS..
2. YOU ARE SUSPECTED IN POSSESION OF STOLEN ITEMS..
3. YOU ARE SUSPECTED IN POSSESION OF DANGEROUS WEAPONS..
4. YOU ARE A UNDERAGE SMOKER/DRINKER
5. YOU ARE UNDERAGE AND ITS PASSED 11PM
OR YOU HAVE BROKEN THE LAW..
OR SOMEONE LODGE A COMPLAIN AGAINTS YOU.. (999) -
Originally posted by Bamboozler:
Why?
I am sure they will have a reason to check on members of the public, but they also need a legal basis. I don't see it in the sections you gave. Perhaps you're not aware of that because you're not a police officer, but they are not allowed to make random checks.
When I get spot checked I will comply and I always ask them why. I think everybody should.
I still dont get it that why are you being so offensive towards police checks? In the first place, if police officers are not empowered, then why will they wanna check you for? fun?
There will definately be A REASON for them to check and how can i tell you which section? omg.... As long as you did not do anything wrong, what are you trying to prove by your every post in this thread? that policeman have no rights to conduct spot checks? or policeman have no legal powers to conduct checks?
I did told you that they do it for a reasons and they are 'responsible' enough for their own actions to conduct the checks as a police officer....
You want sections? i can give you alot, NRA(Cap 201), MOA(Cap 184), MODA(Cap 185), Penal Code(Cap 224), CPC(Cap 68 ) and the list will go very long...
It doesnt matter if i am a Police Officer a not, and who told you that they cant do random checks? its just that they cant do checks without any valid reasons, get it? the different now compare to the older days due to the EDUCATION of the member of public like YOU, is that they should have a valid reason to conducts checks(be it random a not) and you think which policeman so free to conduct random check for no reasons? They have better things to do ok?
Hope this answer your doubts in them... -
Of course you have the rights to refuse and they have the rights to arrest you too...Originally posted by :Of course you have the right to refuse. The police officer must have a vallid reason to ask you for your i/c.
Well, just polietly ask for the reason for checks will be a better alternative.... -
Do they twist and turn, maybe you should ask them, but if you think that you have done nothing wrong, then just maintain your stand, no one can do anything to you....Originally posted by MohamedF:Serious question... I heard that police questioning sometimes like to twist it so you sound like you're guilty... Do we really have the right to keep quite until a court case has been established or our 48hrs are up?
I got heard from a friend that we have...
But its a wise choice for you to ask them for the reason for checks, and then chat with them.... well if you choose to keep quiet, then you might be arrested for the wrong reason...
Cause human can sometimes be "at the wrong place, at the wrong time", so hope this can answer your doubts...
And of course if the police have charges against you, they have 48hrs to establish it and bring you to a court to request you to be remanded for a period of time...... -
my bro,Originally posted by zanza:Well , in truth you do have the right. But the consequence is that you will be brought to the police station.
S.33(1) Of the Criminal Procedure Code gives a police officer the right to demand the name and residence of a person whom he reasonably believes has commited a non- seizable offence.
If that person does not give his name and residence, ( ie, show his ic) , or gives a false one, he can be arrested by the police officer to ascertain his name and residence but must be released within 24 hrs or brought before the nearest magistrate's court.
Sec 33(1) of CPC is for officers that are used pertaining to non-seizable case... please dont mislead fella forumites..... but of cos it can be one of the reason behind checks....
NRA are used to ascertain the particulars of any person check before a NRO or a policeman....
and the list will goes on.... MODA for drug related cases, MOA for offences stated in it etc etc.... -
cut the long story short.
can i refuse? -
You do have a choice to refuse....Originally posted by R3SsH|n:cut the long story short.
can i refuse?
They have a choice to arrest....
short enough? -
Am I being offensive? No, asking whether they have the right to check is not being offensive.Originally posted by qazplm:I still dont get it that why are you being so offensive towards police checks? In the first place, if police officers are not empowered, then why will they wanna check you for? fun?
Your answer shows that you do not see the issue very well.
You assume that because cops check for ID means they are empowered to. That's a wrong assumption. It is the other way around - they can only check if they are empowered.
... and contrary to what you believe, they are not empowered to conduct checks without valid legal powers. They are not allowed to ask for ID when they conduct 'random' and 'routine' checks. 'Routine' checks are just chats and I may ignore them if I choose to.
I do not deny that they do have legal powers to conduct ID checks on certain instances ... and that's precisely what is being questioned and discussed here ... i.e. what/when are they allowed to conduct checks and what are the legal responses that the public can give.
If you are indeed a cop, you make a very lousy one and I am guessing that if you are indeed a cop, you're at most a Sgt, and I'm afraid, not a good Sgt at that.Originally posted by qazplm:
There will definately be A REASON for them to check and how can i tell you which section? omg.... As long as you did not do anything wrong, what are you trying to prove by your every post in this thread?
Yes, they would probably have a reason to check, but that does not necessarily mean they have the legal right to do so. In which case, they are abusing their office.
If you are NOT a cop, I would advise that you take a bit more effort to know your rights as a Singaporean. (and especially as a mod of this forum) People like you further the wrong impression that Singapore is a police state.Originally posted by qazplm:
that policeman have no rights to conduct spot checks? or policeman have no legal powers to conduct checks?
They do have powers to conduct spot checks, but they are not as extensive as you make it out to be. ... and it seems clear that you do not know these powers.Originally posted by qazplm:
I did told you that they do it for a reasons and they are 'responsible' enough for their own actions to conduct the checks as a police officer....
Hmmm ... you beliving this to be true does not make it true.Originally posted by qazplm:
You want sections? i can give you alot, NRA(Cap 201), MOA(Cap 184), MODA(Cap 185), Penal Code(Cap 224), CPC(Cap 68 ) and the list will go very long...
Yes, I want sections.
You seem to know of some statutes, but you list them without a single section.
Could you show me the precise sections? NRA does not give power to conduct checks willy nilly, it can only be used if the officer suspects an offence under the NRA.
Which precise section in the MOA, pls? There are 40 sections there, so I'm not too clear on which you refer to.
The MDA (as it's commonly referred to as and not MODA) is the Misuse of Drugs Act and that only gives the cops a right to check on suspects suspected of consuming drugs or having drugs on them.
The CPC has 409 sections not including the schedules ... which do you refer to?
The Penal Code has 511 sections, which do you refer to?
All can be viewed by members of the public at this site - statutes.agc.gov.sgOriginally posted by qazplm:
It doesnt matter if i am a Police Officer a not, and who told you that they cant do random checks? its just that they cant do checks without any valid reasons, get it?
Actually, you don't seem to get it. They need a valid legal right, not just a reason.Originally posted by qazplm:
the different now compare to the older days due to the EDUCATION of the member of public like YOU, is that they should have a valid reason to conducts checks(be it random a not) and you think which policeman so free to conduct random check for no reasons? They have better things to do ok?
I just hope you're not a cop. Please tell me you're not. Please. -
bamboozler is so much more persuasive then qazplm!
Reason over gut feelings.
Typical qazplm post
There will definately be A REASON for them to check and how can i tell you which section?
Typical Bamboozler post
Actually, you don't seem to get it. They need a valid legal right, not just a reason. -
I just state a fact - they need to have a legal basis for what they do.Originally posted by nomood:bamboozler is so much more persuasive then qazplm!
Reason over gut feelings.
We need to know exactly when we are obliged to comply with such a request and when there is no power at all. -
That happens to be what i believe in too.Originally posted by Bamboozler:I just state a fact - they need to have a legal basis for what they do.
We need to know exactly when we are obliged to comply with such a request and when there is no power at all.
The police is the enforcement agency of the law, not the other way round. -
I think i have to blame it on my poor command of english.... i am a bad student back then and did not get great results printed on my certificate...Originally posted by nomood:That happens to be what i believe in too.
The police is the enforcement agency of the law, not the other way round.
I was wanting to prove that law enforcer in SG does not abuse their power by just conduct checks for no reason and when they have no power to...
and if such police officer exist, there is always the SIU to feedback to....
I did state that you can refuse and of cos, please ask them for the reason for the checks... hope i do not confuse you by the above answers... -
Exectly! i told you that they should have a reason and of course i means power too! I regret that i should have been a good student back then, so i no need to convince to people like you using simpler words with my standard of english(which i sux in)....Originally posted by Bamboozler:I just state a fact - they need to have a legal basis for what they do.
We need to know exactly when we are obliged to comply with such a request and when there is no power at all.
i aways think that i am wasting my time replying to you..... well, my own opinion though not representing anyone....
You just cant buy the idea that if you are being checked, there is definately a reason(or LEGAL RIGHTS if you insist on using these words)? and of cos as i have stated alot of times that you have the right to reject?
perhaps my poor command in english is the main concern as i have used the word "random checks" throughout the whole thread... my apology... then i think its time for me to change "random checks" to just "checks" alone... And of cos when there is no power, you think the police will want to make check on you? for nothing?
i am actually glad that you can deduced a rank for me based on those replies i have posted and i am honoured....
ASK is the word i advised everyone to do so when they are being check.... for the reason(or LEGAL RIGHTS) behind every checks conducted will only be clear if you or me are the policeman whom is conducting it....
cheers
P.S. if you think you are being check due to the policeman abusing his powers, do feedback to SIU... -
Don't give IC can. Give verbal infomation to them.
I won't give IC but i'll give my particulars verbally. -
if you're really on the wrong side of the law,Originally posted by Texcoco II:People, just want to ask something. If a Singapore cop in uniform ask to see my NRIC (for no apparent reason) when I'm having coffee or walking along the road, do I have a right to refuse?
What if the "Mata" NOT in uniform but shows me proof that he is a officer? Same applies?
then you must explain to them you need to rush to toilet urgent,
tart bolek tahan liao.
then quickly run away -
Which is what's so worrying.Originally posted by qazplm:well, my own opinion though not representing anyone....
Police need to have a legal basis for their actions. Not their "own opinion".
In any case, i think you've managed to succeed in confusing me more. Now I'm not so sure what you're talking about anymore.
Just a small piece of advice, and please don't take offense. Before you type, try summarizing your points into 1 single sentence or question. If you can't do that, then you probably do not have a point. -
Personally, I'd challenge them by checking their identifications first. Followed by a call to their relevant station inspector.Originally posted by M©+square:Don't give IC can. Give verbal infomation to them.
I won't give IC but i'll give my particulars verbally.
Then, ask them for a legal reason for checking my ID; on what basis am I being checked. eg: do they have any reason to believe that I may be involved in any illegal activities?
If they can be bothered to take me through all these with valid and legal reasons, then I'd be more then happy to furnish them with my details.
Though personally, I think the SPF in singapore won't be that damn boliao oso. -
Your first three points are already a bother and waste of time, imo. But good idea!Originally posted by nomood:Personally, I'd challenge them by checking their identifications first. Followed by a call to their relevant station inspector.
Then, ask them for a legal reason for checking my ID; on what basis am I being checked. eg: do they have any reason to believe that I may be involved in any illegal activities?
If they can be bothered to take me through all these with valid and legal reasons, then I'd be more then happy to furnish them with my details.
Though personally, I think the SPF in singapore won't be that damn boliao oso.
After they show me their warrant kart. Then i see whether i want to tell or not. Cos if i la kopi in kopitiam and then they ask for my particular. I confirm resist.
Unless they are on investigation or from a special unit.
Say SS or CID .etc (which is low possibility.)
No matter what. Got to explain their reasons for getting my I.D.
Sometimes, civilians got to be understanding also. -
Agreed. They need to do their job.Originally posted by M©+square:Your first three points are already a bother and waste of time, imo. But good idea!
After they show me their warrant kart. Then i see whether i want to tell or not. Cos if i la kopi in kopitiam and then they ask for my particular. I confirm resist.
Unless they are on investigation or from a special unit.
Say SS or CID .etc (which is low possibility.)
No matter what. Got to explain their reasons for getting my I.D.
Sometimes, civilians got to be understanding also.
I think the most important step is getting them to explain their reasons for checking my ID. If it it does not sound right, eg: "oh i feel like it" or "this is a random check", I most certainly would like to verify that iwth their station inspectors if that is the correct protocol.
SS & CID definitely not so damn boliao. tmd if they're so super boliao i won't be just checking in with the station inspector.
Waste of tax payer's money. -
I think either you are a clone or you can be bamboolzer best friend~Originally posted by nomood:Which is what's so worrying.
Police need to have a legal basis for their actions. Not their "own opinion".
In any case, i think you've managed to succeed in confusing me more. Now I'm not so sure what you're talking about anymore.
Just a small piece of advice, and please don't take offense. Before you type, try summarizing your points into 1 single sentence or question. If you can't do that, then you probably do not have a point.
my whole quote is
"i aways think that i am wasting my time replying to you..... well, my own opinion though not representing anyone.... "
you rather choose to pick up the last few words in the sentenses.... well done...
I think i shall not waste my time replying to you too.... those forumites that are reading this thread should know what i am trying to say.... those that have doubts still can post qns though... not going to waste time on humans that have pre-bias mindset about the SPF.... its wasting my time explaining... -
A P.O must have a valid reason or suspicion in order to conduct a check. There is a difference between consensual conversation (in which a P.O does not have a right to ask for your particulars) and checks....
HOWEVER....
in the very practical world...
When a P.O ask you for your particulars (for no reason.). You can reject.
However, the moment you reject, is it not enough suspicion to warrant a demand for your particulars?
Its as simply as that.
A refusal is enough reason to cast a suspicion.
Simple???