Why semi-auto pistol not favoured over revolver
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wa. got such thing ah?
I tried searching but no results. heard of 7 round pistols before but never revolvers. -
Main reason is IA stoppages. (heard from my weapon training officer, i find this reason made the most sense.)
The revolver is only used on life threatening instances. - Final resort.
The moment an officer draws out his revolver, he is sure that his rounds will discharge.
The probablity of Pistol stoppages compared to Taurus are 4:1?
For a pistol, if there's stoppages.
It will take officer some time to fumble with clearing of rounds or reloading magazine.
Which will be too late to fire. Either he or someone will be hurt/killed by then.
Why officers will take time to clear IA?
-Because Police in SG seldom or don't use their weapons!
Only in once a year they get to shoot like nobody's business.
Then again, there are some pistol jams you just can't clear on your own...got to bring back to armoury.
-It takes money to re-train officers on new weapons.
-At this moment, only GC and some SOC contingent carries pistol.
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I saw OCS cadet officers training using a pistol at range. Infact, i heard all officers Lit and above will carry a handgun-pistol with them during Ops. -
A revolver is so much cooler than a pistol
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Haha,especially Dirt HarryOriginally posted by DriftingGuy:A revolver is so much cooler than a pistol -
US officers carrys 2 weapons.
One pistol and another revolver as backup.
In matters of IA of the pistol. At least still has the revolver.
For those trained in M16 or at the least HKMP5, clearing the IA from the Pistol is the same as clearing the IA from the rifles.
And with training in IPSC or IPDA, clearing the Pistol is imperative so as to minimise time spent clearing the weapon and presenting oneself as a target. -
It's a Sig Sauer P226/8 right?Originally posted by M©+square:I saw OCS cadet officers training using a pistol at range. Infact, i heard all officers Lit and above will carry a handgun-pistol with them during Ops. -
I suppose? Not sure leh.Originally posted by Deunamist:It's a Sig Sauer P226/8 right?
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i remember pilot uses p226Originally posted by Deunamist:It's a Sig Sauer P226/8 right? -
Guys, if I may...
1) No way you can reload a wheelgun faster than a semi-auto. That's at least 2.5 seconds versus 1.5 seconds
2) The wheelgun has less part than a semi-auto; which one do you think is easier to clean?
3) IA for a revo - squeeze the trigger again until it goes bang. IA for a semi-auto is tap, rack and squeeze.
4) The revolver is less of a jam-o-matic than a semi-auto.
There has been much speculations about why a revolver versus a semi-auto and I personally don't know the answer to that. It could be one of the reasons some of you have indicated or all of it combined including the possible fact that someone must have thot that the revo is more idiot proof.
LE incidents are different in Singapore as opposed to the US. Will 5 rounds do the job? Maybe, maybe not, just look back at past history. Given a choice, I'd rather have a high capacity magazine.
I just cleaned my Glock and I have 2 loaded mags sitting in front of me. One's a ten rounder and the other is a 17-rounder. Which one should I load before I put it into bedside drawer? That's a no brainer and I'd rather have a semi-auto than a revo.
If revo is the only choice, then stick with S&W 'cos the Taurus is a real PITA. -
revolver is more powerful?
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Another argument, lets try with it.Originally posted by i-SHOT:Guys, if I may...
1) No way you can reload a wheelgun faster than a semi-auto. That's at least 2.5 seconds versus 1.5 seconds
2) The wheelgun has less part than a semi-auto; which one do you think is easier to clean?
3) IA for a revo - squeeze the trigger again until it goes bang. IA for a semi-auto is tap, rack and squeeze.
4) The revolver is less of a jam-o-matic than a semi-auto.
There has been much speculations about why a revolver versus a semi-auto and I personally don't know the answer to that. It could be one of the reasons some of you have indicated or all of it combined including the possible fact that someone must have thot that the revo is more idiot proof.
LE incidents are different in Singapore as opposed to the US. Will 5 rounds do the job? Maybe, maybe not, just look back at past history. Given a choice, I'd rather have a high capacity magazine.
I just cleaned my Glock and I have 2 loaded mags sitting in front of me. One's a ten rounder and the other is a 17-rounder. Which one should I load before I put it into bedside drawer? That's a no brainer and I'd rather have a semi-auto than a revo.
If revo is the only choice, then stick with S&W 'cos the Taurus is a real PITA.
Revolvers requires a double action, meaning some time before the bullet actually flies to decide that your opponent must die? So revolvers means a time to regret the action?
I agree. I hate the Taurus, stupid laser thingy is never at all helpful when its really needed. I aim better with my eyes closed at a dark/nite range.
Especially when you need to grip that butt to activate it. My hands are small, it doesnt grip all the way. Grip too much in front, the gun went aiming barrel down. The J frame, except without the weaver stance. -
Glocks are the way to go!!!
But the revolvers if I'm not mistaken can hold larger calibre rounds unlike that of the semi-auto. Anyone tried the S&W AirLite series before?
Personal preference is a semi-auto handgun as (1)it holds a large magazine,(2) reloading is easier,(3) easier to mount accessories ie.enlarged magazine well,compensators etc. -
How do we figure that?Originally posted by the.owl:revolver is more powerful? 
I know S&W has the 500 Magnum and it does go ka-boom instead of bang but there are heavy calibers in semi-auto too; a .50 caliber 1911 for instance. Yes, there are wheelguns with Dirty Harry style calibers but if you're talking police issue for departments, sorry bro that statement doesn't fly.
Bro, so are some semi-autos. They come in single, single/double, DAO (double action only), etc. I've shot revos that have a sweeeet 6 pound trigger and at the same time the NYPD Glocks have triggers that are 12 pounds. But let me tell you something else...Originally posted by viciouskitty74:Another argument, lets try with it.
Revolvers requires a double action, meaning some time before the bullet actually flies to decide that your opponent must die? So revolvers means a time to regret the action?
If you have decided to draw and engage, no amount of trigger weight will make a damn difference when the adrenaline flows through your body. You wil mash the trigger when the brain says 'shoot!'.
Some folks consider heavier trigger for fear of accidental discharges (AD). The bad guy is front of you, you told him to show his hands, your finger is on the trigger at this point and the adrenaline, as I've mentioned, is flowing. If you had a super light trigger, that death grip is going to result in an AD.
Amen, sister (edited thanks to Deunamist). The Taurus is rough. And I have to agree with that laser grip issue. I have personally seen SPF officers who are 'chasing the dot' during a course of fire. Instead of looking at the target and where they need to deliver the shot, they're bouncing all over the target. And if you fumble the draw and don't activate the laser, what happens then?Originally posted by viciouskitty74:I agree. I hate the Taurus, stupid laser thingy is never at all helpful when its really needed. I aim better with my eyes closed at a dark/nite range.
Especially when you need to grip that butt to activate it. My hands are small, it doesnt grip all the way. Grip too much in front, the gun went aiming barrel down. The J frame, except without the weaver stance.
Don't get me wrong. I think the laser is a great aid BUT rather than teach the recruits to sight with the dot, teach them the basics of sight picture and alignment. The laser is there to confirm and assist your basics.
Spec, if your talking IPSC, I can understand the comps and the large mag well. If we're talking police issure here, that ain't gonna happen.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Personal preference is a semi-auto handgun as (1)it holds a large magazine,(2) reloading is easier,(3) easier to mount accessories ie.enlarged magazine well,compensators etc.
Personally I do not have any problems if I am issued a revo or semi-auto, if I am LE. It all bores down to practice; if you don't practice, you ain't gonna react fast, shoot fast and shoot accurately. My only problem is if you're gonna issue a revo, why only a 5-shot wheel? I'd like to know the reason behind that. -
Gun crimes are not widespread in Singapore. How often do you see gun-wielding criminals? Its not logical to issue every single officer with a 20-round pistol with an additional 20-round magazine when they don't get to fire it often. And if one happens, would you rather compromise no. of rounds or the stopping power of each round?
The rate of SPF officers actually firing their revolvers outside the range just doesn't justify the need and cost of issuing pistols and their related rounds, for service and range use.
If there is a rise in gun crimes, what do we have SOC for? And one more thing, viciouskitty is female -
D, like I said, I do not have a problem with either a revolver or a handgun. What makes me wonder is why the SPF mandated a 5-round 2.5" to 3" barreled M85 Taurus (did I get that right?) rather than a standard 6 shot. They picked a firearm that is a tough to find accessories for. Even a standard holster for the M85 is hard to come by in the US. Only reason I know is that I tried looking for accessories for the damn thing to submit for a bid and all my distributors had no idea if anyone makes anything specifically for the M85. If they had stayed with a J-frame S&W....Originally posted by Deunamist:Gun crimes are not widespread in Singapore. How often do you see gun-wielding criminals? Its not logical to issue every single officer with a 20-round pistol with an additional 20-round magazine when they don't get to fire it often. And if one happens, would you rather compromise no. of rounds or the stopping power of each round?
BTW, no disrepect but I don't think it has anything to do with the 'stoping power of each round'. It's a 38; in some competitive events in the US, that caliber is banned because it is under powered. In our circle, a carry caliber is nothing smaller than a 9mm. A 38 or 32 is almost always relegated to that of a back-up gun.
Anyway, you're right to say that this is Singapore. It doesn't have the crime rate like others do. That said, the world is changing. I am pretty sure someone at Home Team Academy is asking themself if the SPF needs to go to semi-autos in the near future. The 5 year period (??) for the M85 will be up very soon.
Whoops!Originally posted by Deunamist:If there is a rise in gun crimes, what do we have SOC for? And one more thing, viciouskitty is female 
My apologies, ma'am. -
Actually the stopping power of the revolver is a factor too?
As law enforcers, they shoot to save, not to kill. -
Lets look at the same caliber as how we look at Singapore.
A penisula island. 41.6km tip to tip width.
Small spaces, tight corners and everyone jostling for elbow space.
Small caliber, meant to shoot only if the target is like maybe one arm with a chopper length away.
Maybe thats the logic of the revolver? Close Quarters only? -
No offence taken babe.Originally posted by i-SHOT:Whoops! My apologies, ma'am.
So why is it you have weapons loaded in front of you?
I am in USA now and was living last week with a friend at Seattle.
That guy has a handgun at every nook and cranny of his home. Are you somewhat in the same kind of home? Where weapons are a norm? -
Anything you find hard to come by, is not hard to come by if you're from the SPF. There is definitely a difference between what you can find and what LE agencies can find. E.g. an authentic H&K MP5Originally posted by i-SHOT:D, like I said, I do not have a problem with either a revolver or a handgun. What makes me wonder is why the SPF mandated a 5-round 2.5" to 3" barreled M85 Taurus (did I get that right?) rather than a standard 6 shot. They picked a firearm that is a tough to find accessories for. Even a standard holster for the M85 is hard to come by in the US. Only reason I know is that I tried looking for accessories for the damn thing to submit for a bid and all my distributors had no idea if anyone makes anything specifically for the M85. If they had stayed with a J-frame S&W.... -
Much the same as...cheapest wins?
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You're not too far from the truthOriginally posted by BeEtHoVeN:As law enforcers, they shoot to save, not to kill.
Kitty, I'm not saying it is not possible, that just might be their reason but I have never seen an LE unit (stateside) use a revo for CQB. When you are entering a room, house, bldg, etc, you wanna make sure you have as much ammo as yu can carry because you never know what is around the corner. In Singapore, CQB might mean facing a individual with a parang. In the US, CQB might mean entering a house with a criminal behind a stolen AR15 (that's 30 rounds).Originally posted by viciouskitty74:Maybe thats the logic of the revolver? Close Quarters only?
FYI, one of things we do during training is a tactical reload (swap out a new magazine - where possible) before entering the next room, after the first or last has been cleared. We do so becos' we do not know what to expect and don't want any surprises like a slide lock because there was only one round left.
I'm outside DC and I don't have one in every nook and cranny. I have to be concern about my little one. I do carry one and my wife (who's Asian) has 'skills' too. I like to say we have a few 'well placed' firearms for home protection. Have you ever heard the saying that a pistol is only good to buy time to get to a rifle? A Remington 870 pump is our home defense tool.Originally posted by viciouskitty74:That guy has a handgun at every nook and cranny of his home. Are you somewhat in the same kind of home? Where weapons are a norm?
I work in the industry, so to speak, which means that even during some of my travels to the other states, I do check in my firearm at the airport.
D, PM sent. I know the MP5 is still a hot ticket item in the rest of the world. It just doesn't fly that well stateside. H&K are trying to get rid of their stocks of refurbished units at well below market prices and they are literally about 45 minutes away from where I am. No matter what some of my associates here think about the MP5 (everyone wants a shortie SBR or at least an M4), I think the MP5 is still a very formidable weapon system.Originally posted by Deunamist:There is definitely a difference between what you can find and what LE agencies can find. E.g. an authentic H&K MP5
DVC. -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9SFfnqMGQ
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That was interestingOriginally posted by mrwonderful:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9SFfnqMGQ
There is another video on the site that showcases Jerry Miculek, whom I feel is the best wheelgun shooter that walked the earth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DpCellB_UQ -
Thanks i-shot.
very informative. cheers to the little one!
i can only hope that every family is as gun savvy as you do.
over in sg, somehow, its breeds into the little ones that guns are a no no and is not ladylike or something.
i have people aversed to gun carrying then actually knowing whats its about. its frustrating to even to know guys with that sentiments.
and the extremes, they either are obsessed with guns(the image of having carried one) or simply loathing it. -
I-Shot: thanks for the insight.