Court Martial Justifiable: Take MC, And Go Take Exam Too
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TS has to be court martialed within a stipulated time otherwise all charges to be dropped completely.In this case prolly he will escape the punishment but would recieve a harsh warning to save some faces.Still what he did was wrong and be reminded that, 'THIS IS NOT YOUR FATHER'S ARMY'
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Originally posted by skythewood:
You NEVER took leave before, check. Company off day your leave got deducted, check.
Now... how much leave you left with? how come not enough, your exams is 10 days or 20 days ah?
If you inform them way before hand, how come the leaves are not planned far in advanced? If OC reject you, why you never take the matter up to CO or call SAF hotline?
Hm. I'm wondering if TS leave actually still have balance, then will he still have a chance to defend himself? And, as most men in a battalion they have no access to OA in offices to check they will have to depend on their admin specs to check on their behalf. If the spec chose to hide the real balance to him, then it is really such an unfair case.
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Going by what the TS has posted....he is not likely to be in the good books of his OC and CO...I am sure the rest of us will agree that if U served ur duties deligently throughout ur NS...a lot of things...can be negotiated and looked the other way....so why does the OC and CO want to clamp down on TS?
TS said he has never applied for leave...I dunno about now...used to have to fill in a Leave Form and handed in for the admin people to do the updating...since TS said leave has been used up...come up with the hard-copy proof.If now Leave is by electronic application...there will be an electronic trail to check...which comes back to the 1st paragraph.
whether Off can be used to go for exams is no longer the issue now...go to exam while on MC...in NS or civillian world also cannot...TS can come up with 1001 reasons why he should be allowed to go but the fact remains that he abused the medical leave to go for exam....now still want to play hard ball and go to CO...have fun TS.
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*points and laughs at TS*
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Originally posted by Shorter ninja:
TS has to be court martialed within a stipulated time otherwise all charges to be dropped completely.In this case prolly he will escape the punishment but would recieve a harsh warning to save some faces.Still what he did was wrong and be reminded that, 'THIS IS NOT YOUR FATHER'S ARMY'
What do you mean by stipulated time???
Anyways to explain to you all too hard already, since you all dunno full story or the methods that my commanders undertook.
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Originally posted by Xcert:
Going by what the TS has posted....he is not likely to be in the good books of his OC and CO...I am sure the rest of us will agree that if U served ur duties deligently throughout ur NS...a lot of things...can be negotiated and looked the other way....so why does the OC and CO want to clamp down on TS?
TS said he has never applied for leave...I dunno about now...used to have to fill in a Leave Form and handed in for the admin people to do the updating...since TS said leave has been used up...come up with the hard-copy proof.If now Leave is by electronic application...there will be an electronic trail to check...which comes back to the 1st paragraph.
whether Off can be used to go for exams is no longer the issue now...go to exam while on MC...in NS or civillian world also cannot...TS can come up with 1001 reasons why he should be allowed to go but the fact remains that he abused the medical leave to go for exam....now still want to play hard ball and go to CO...have fun TS.
Simple example, why is it hard to explain to you all. Look at this Xcert guy, say that i play hard ball and go to CO.
LOL, when did i play hard ball and go to find CO? When i don't plead guilty to my OC, i will be automatically transferred to CO, only to get charged! GG to people who cannot read.
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Originally posted by schi_zo:
Simple example, why is it hard to explain to you all. Look at this Xcert guy, say that i play hard ball and go to CO.
LOL, when did i play hard ball and go to find CO? When i don't plead guilty to my OC, i will be automatically transferred to CO, only to get charged! GG to people who cannot read.
People read it and understood it fully. You didn't.
The bottom line is, like it or not, you were totally in the wrong. You should have simply pleaded guilty to your OC because an MC does not give you the right to take an exam outside. Simple as that.
Like I said before, National Service Full-Time is exactly what it sounds like - you are a full-time soldier. If you want to take a course outside, then do it at your own time without letting it get in the way of your duties as a soldier. If you get time off to pursue your studies, then it is a privilege and not a right. If you do not get that privilege, then really, it's just too bad.
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Originally posted by schi_zo: Simple example, why is it hard to explain to you all. Look at this Xcert guy, say that i play hard ball and go to CO.
LOL, when did i play hard ball and go to find CO? When i don't plead guilty to my OC, i will be automatically transferred to CO, only to get charged! GG to people who cannot read.
if U didnt try to play hard ball...then U would have taken ur OC's order.
Right now U can just continue to refuse to take order from CO and go court-martial....if U think that the world evolves around U alone and that anything that doesnt go ur way is an attempt to stifle your freedom....its ok with me...U are the one going DB.
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suck thumb and go DB lor, afterall, pes F don't think need to undergo regime sangbag drills. maybe is everyday stay inside cell eat sleep? but 10 days, maybe it will be tagged to your record for life. no point playing around with the system.
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Originally posted by insidestory:
Commanders will normally close an eye when it comes to good soldiers, I know you're illiterate and dense, which is why you failed to pick this up repeatedly even though it was said by at least three NS officers here. TS is obviously a marked case and those fucked up soldiers who caused headache and trouble for his officers. If I'm his PC, i'll also make sure my OC whacks him big time and send him to DB for life.
I find it amusing how you are totally self justified over something that is not allowed. It's been said by so many people, some officers and some not, that its not allowed and he did it. But as usual your failure to understand English due to your illiteracy is a stumbling block to a normal life for you.
I know a lot of commanders who have sent lots of people to DB. Nothing happened to them as a result of that. It's the fucked up soldiers who paid the price for being fucked up, and I'm quite sure they'll carry their deep seated character flaws into their post-ORD life..after they serve out the rest of their extended NS days after DB. As for TS, i'm sure you'll enjoy the lovely exercise, pleasant ambience and nice gourmet meals you are about to enjoy in your 10 day holiday. Have fun!!!
Through this forum, I found out the mentality and psyche of these fucked up soldiers that I've to deal with in camp. Most of them however don't reveal their real feelings to me of course, now I know these fucked up and marked soldiers actually feel so much self justification about their misdeeds and bad attitude,don't think they did anything wrong and think its all the commanders' fault. I will make sure that such soldiers suffer and get whacked with harsher consequencies from now on and recommend to my OC maximum charges for them every time they even try to pull a fast one.
dont mind me asking, what's your job position in your camp? 1 thing i observed, the power to recommend charges can be quite varying across various services/formations in the SAF. perhaps due to different scope of operations? basically as long as A is of a higher rank than B within the guidelines of the SAF Act, A can recommend?
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Originally posted by shitakemush:
suck thumb and go DB lor, afterall, pes F don't think need to undergo regime sangbag drills. maybe is everyday stay inside cell eat sleep? but 10 days, maybe it will be tagged to your record for life. no point playing around with the system.
Heard that military charges are not put on record, in your civilian life.
But TS really dumb to do such a thing. He thinks that just because he got exams, the commander must give him time off to do his personal stuff? I totally agree with some of the responses here. FULL TIME NATIONAL SERVICE MAN means FULL TIME. Doing other stuffs like studying and moonlighting is considered ILLEGAL.
TS, if you are already in DB, hope you have woke up your idea by now. If you are still waiting to go to GCM, I would say: Reap what you sow.
Fancy using an MC to go take exams. Now, this is the biggest joke i ever heard of.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
If I am you, I am no push over. I will bring every resources, I have from media, mp, SAF hotline, and EVERYTHING. Since the CO or OC or whatever is being informed I will whack every1 upside down. Anyway, EXAM and TESTs are very important events in life and it is necessary for life to go on and even after you ORD. If whoever on top is not being understanding, than he does not deserve to be a commander at all.
I read somewhere that taking EXAM off, compensation leave, birthday off in the directive and handbook before, I am not sure if it is still exists. Check it out urself.
Anyway who say taking MC must stay home AND REST? It is only written black and white on the MC say you are unfit for work and is not valid for court. Have you all ever read the MC and medical directive before? Where on paper that it is being written that you have to stay home and rest?
Anyway the idea of giving an MC is not to rest, but more like isolation, because that person may be spreading the cold and flu virus around. If he is injured, it may be difficult to walk around.
Good Luck to TS. I have not problem getting OFF for my scholarship interview, driving test, and other stuff before,hence therefore...
The idea of giving MC is not to rest?!
Wa must tell me the brand of weed you're smoking!
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I've seen through the whole thread and well.. I can only comment on this..
Guys.. give TS a break.. he is already in this deep shit and he dont need anyone to further point out his mistakes.
I believe the TS has his own reasons in doing so, which I would just say bad luck to him for being caught.
You guys have to put yourself in his shoes. You guys dont know the complete picture. Please do not think you can infer the full story just from the few paragraphs of what he posted.
I mean, think about it. Just missing 1 subject could mean that he has to re-take his A level again next year. I dont know how many of you here have taken the A level and I must say its not easy at all. You have to be consistent in your studies all day round, throughout the whole year in order to get a good result in the As. So think about it.. how would you guys feel just because you do not have leave to cover 1 day of your exam, you have to redo this whole thing at the next year? Its practically wasting 1 whole year when within 1 year, you could do sooo many things!
I believe that the TS resorted to getting an MC just to attend an examination is out of desperation. This is to try to save himself from repeating the A level again for the next year just for 1 day of the examination he couldn't attend. I do not agree with what he did, but can you guys please be sympathetic towards his situation and not flame him?
Its so easy to flame others. I couldn't think of a more impactful idea, so I shall just say this. Like for me, I could even say that I dont care and curse that you and your love ones to die tomorrow without thinking of the consequences for your family and friends. But I should not. Because if I put myself in your shoes, its really saddening for that to happen. I find it quite sad to see so many responses flaming him without getting the full story. So please do put yourself in his shoes before you guys flame others.
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Originally posted by Razor87:
I've seen through the whole thread and well.. I can only comment on this..
Guys.. give TS a break.. he is already in this deep shit and he dont need anyone to further point out his mistakes.
I believe the TS has his own reasons in doing so, which I would just say bad luck to him for being caught.
You guys have to put yourself in his shoes. You guys dont know the complete picture. Please do not think you can infer the full story just from the few paragraphs of what he posted.
I mean, think about it. Just missing 1 subject could mean that he has to re-take his A level again next year. I dont know how many of you here have taken the A level and I must say its not easy at all. You have to be consistent in your studies all day round, throughout the whole year in order to get a good result in the As. So think about it.. how would you guys feel just because you do not have leave to cover 1 day of your exam, you have to redo this whole thing at the next year? Its practically wasting 1 whole year when within 1 year, you could do sooo many things!
I believe that the TS resorted to getting an MC just to attend an examination is out of desperation. This is to try to save himself from repeating the A level again for the next year just for 1 day of the examination he couldn't attend. I do not agree with what he did, but can you guys please be sympathetic towards his situation and not flame him?
Its so easy to flame others. I couldn't think of a more impactful idea, so I shall just say this. Like for me, I could even say that I dont care and curse that you and your love ones to die tomorrow without thinking of the consequences for your family and friends. But I should not. Because if I put myself in your shoes, its really saddening for that to happen. I find it quite sad to see so many responses flaming him without getting the full story. So please do put yourself in his shoes before you guys flame others.
Have you served ?
Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of the fellows who had to deal with this fellow, put yourself into the shoes of this fellow's unit mates, who'd have to cover his duties for him and do his shit for him while he's malingering ?
Don't forget, he's not the victim here. The laws are clear, no one went all the way to trap him .... he pwnzed himself. Why don't you sympathize with his army colleagues who have to put up with his shit and cover his work for him ?
Are they not NSFs too ? You think what ? that he is the only chap with things to do and commitments outside ? That they have no life to live outside ? Don't you think he's making a mockery of the other fellows who just grin and bear it and put aside their own outside commitments to fulfil their duties without fanfare and with nary a complaint ? Is it any wonder then that nobody liked him in the army ?
Jeez, what were you yourself like during NS ?
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so good.. 10 days DB + early discharge.... really good deal..
anyway u should had just plead guilt earlier.. most maybe sign extra or SOL..
and u take MC to take exams is u wrong lo..
and now u post in online forums.. lag jialat.... now u can go to see ur MP for help
Aanyway.. care to tell us which wondeful unit you r from? u sound like some clerk in an infantrt camp -
Originally posted by shitakemush:
suck thumb and go DB lor, afterall, pes F don't think need to undergo regime sangbag drills. maybe is everyday stay inside cell eat sleep? but 10 days, maybe it will be tagged to your record for life. no point playing around with the system.
theres no civil record for army DB.. whats happened in army stays in the army
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Originally posted by Razor87:
I've seen through the whole thread and well.. I can only comment on this..
Guys.. give TS a break.. he is already in this deep shit and he dont need anyone to further point out his mistakes.
I believe the TS has his own reasons in doing so, which I would just say bad luck to him for being caught.
You guys have to put yourself in his shoes. You guys dont know the complete picture. Please do not think you can infer the full story just from the few paragraphs of what he posted.
I mean, think about it. Just missing 1 subject could mean that he has to re-take his A level again next year. I dont know how many of you here have taken the A level and I must say its not easy at all. You have to be consistent in your studies all day round, throughout the whole year in order to get a good result in the As. So think about it.. how would you guys feel just because you do not have leave to cover 1 day of your exam, you have to redo this whole thing at the next year? Its practically wasting 1 whole year when within 1 year, you could do sooo many things!
I believe that the TS resorted to getting an MC just to attend an examination is out of desperation. This is to try to save himself from repeating the A level again for the next year just for 1 day of the examination he couldn't attend. I do not agree with what he did, but can you guys please be sympathetic towards his situation and not flame him?
Its so easy to flame others. I couldn't think of a more impactful idea, so I shall just say this. Like for me, I could even say that I dont care and curse that you and your love ones to die tomorrow without thinking of the consequences for your family and friends. But I should not. Because if I put myself in your shoes, its really saddening for that to happen. I find it quite sad to see so many responses flaming him without getting the full story. So please do put yourself in his shoes before you guys flame others.
If I were to put myself in his shoes.... I would not have taken GCE A Levels in the middle of National Service Full-Time in the first place.
As people have said ad nauseum, full-time National Service means just that: full-time conscription in the armed forces. Any time off for any other commitments is by no means a given, and you are expected to drop everything else for your NSF duties.
Well, I was an A Level student once. And I can say that my JC years were the most stressful academic years of my life. Perhaps this fella is some intelligent being who can juggle the stresses of both A Levels and NS at the same time, I don't know. I know that I can't do that. Perhaps he can, and if he is really that awesome, then kudos to him, because I am nowhere near his level of awesomeness.
What is not intelligent about what he did is that he assumed that NS will always give way to his pursuit of the A Levels. And therein lies the problem.
And also, even after he was caught for taking an exam in the middle of his MC, the really smart thing for him to have done would be to simply plead guilty to his OC. Desperation or not, what he did was still clearly against regulations. He could have gotten away with perhaps an SOL or an RP, or just a few extras and some harsh words if he got lucky.
But no, he still insisted on being innocent, and look where it got him.
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Originally posted by 105090:
theres no civil record for army DB.. whats happened in army stays in the army
there will be ramifications in civvy life.
I knew a chap, bright VJC boy, from hendon camp .... garang soldier too. He was caught stealing explosives and det cord during demo course with the engineers. I think he got 7 or 9 months in DB. Afterwards, the grapevine says he lost his place in the local uni and a study grant too.
At the minimum, you can bet your ass with a PES F (NS marked as incomplete), and such a record, he can kiss any civil service jobs goodbye.
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Originally posted by fudgester: If I were to put myself in his shoes.... I would not have taken GCE A Levels in the middle of National Service Full-Time in the first place.
As people have said ad nauseum, full-time National Service means just that: full-time conscription in the armed forces. Any time off for any other commitments is by no means a given, and you are expected to drop everything else for your NSF duties.
Well, I was an A Level student once. And I can say that my JC years were the most stressful academic years of my life. Perhaps this fella is some intelligent being who can juggle the stresses of both A Levels and NS at the same time, I don't know. I know that I can't do that. Perhaps he can, and if he is really that awesome, then kudos to him, because I am nowhere near his level of awesomeness.
What is not intelligent about what he did is that he assumed that NS will always give way to his pursuit of the A Levels. And therein lies the problem.
And also, even after he was caught for taking an exam in the middle of his MC, the really smart thing for him to have done would be to simply plead guilty to his OC. Desperation or not, what he did was still clearly against regulations. He could have gotten away with perhaps an SOL or an RP, or just a few extras and some harsh words if he got lucky.
But no, he still insisted on being innocent, and look where it got him.
where did he mention that he was taking A levels in anycase ?
well hey ! isn't it ironic that this chap flunked his A levels but was being so pompus about being an A level student in his other thread ?
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In army
you can do anything
but dun get caught!!
So best is never ever thought
of doing anything that is against the army
Rules...
Ex ROD personnel
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Originally posted by Fatum:
Have you served ?
Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of the fellows who had to deal with this fellow, put yourself into the shoes of this fellow's unit mates, who'd have to cover his duties for him and do his shit for him while he's malingering ?
Don't forget, he's not the victim here. The laws are clear, no one went all the way to trap him .... he pwnzed himself. Why don't you sympathize with his army colleagues who have to put up with his shit and cover his work for him ?
Are they not NSFs too ? You think what ? that he is the only chap with things to do and commitments outside ? That they have no life to live outside ? Don't you think he's making a mockery of the other fellows who just grin and bear it and put aside their own outside commitments to fulfil their duties without fanfare and with nary a complaint ? Is it any wonder then that nobody liked him in the army ?
Jeez, what were you yourself like during NS ?
How would you know my vocation?
How would you know if I have to do duties or not?
How would you know no one went all the way and trap me?
You've never seen me, and say that I'm malingering, making trouble for other people, nobody likes me in the army.
You live in the same house as I am, I suppose?
Did I not mention I was taking A levels? Couldn't read I suppose?
Re-taking A levels is equivalent to flunking the previous one?
Me being pompus as an A level student in the other thread?
Keep your assumptions coming since you know 'so much' about me.
But seriously, on a side note, SAF pay you to come here? or you just have a hard-on for downgraded personnel? looking through your posts, it was pretty amusing.
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Fatum is just 1 of those hard core supporters of the SAF lah so can just ignore him.
To schi_zo: since you are going to ord, you don't need to be scare of them charging you lah.
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Originally posted by Daveteo:
To schi_zo: since you are going to ord, you don't need to be scare of them charging you lah.
You are wrong, my friend..You still can be brought under charge and kenna DB...
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Originally posted by zenden9:
You are wrong, my friend..You still can be brought under charge and kenna DB...
Most SAF superiors can't be bothered too much about you when you are going to/have already ord
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Originally posted by schi_zo:
How would you know my vocation?
How would you know if I have to do duties or not?
How would you know no one went all the way and trap me?
You've never seen me, and say that I'm malingering, making trouble for other people, nobody likes me in the army.
You live in the same house as I am, I suppose?
Did I not mention I was taking A levels? Couldn't read I suppose?
Re-taking A levels is equivalent to flunking the previous one?
Me being pompus as an A level student in the other thread?
Keep your assumptions coming since you know 'so much' about me.
But seriously, on a side note, SAF pay you to come here? or you just have a hard-on for downgraded personnel? looking through your posts, it was pretty amusing.
is that your schi-zo other half speaking ?
You wrote that you were a combat medic, no ? A combat medic that has no duties ?
And you know who said nobody like you in the army ? you did ... in your very first thread ... or did your psychological condition makes you fail in your memory too ?
And do you imagine for a moment that when you take MC, nothing happens in your unit ? That they don't have to get somebody else to cover your work and duties for you ? Or even if you were such a good psychotic that they don't dare to get you do do any medical coverage, others don't need to take up your slack ? Isn't it obvious that in your little mind, the whole world revolves around your own little self alone.
Just look throught the thread and see how many fans you have got. And frankly, it's not surprisingly at all, that you find yourself in such deep shit.
you cut botak for DB already ?