Court Martial Justifiable: Take MC, And Go Take Exam Too
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Hi all, just a question. I was slapped with a charge of 10 days DB, for taking my exams on mc. My leave was not enough to cover the full duration of my exams den my unit don't allow me to use off also. If a paper is missed, the whole subject will be deemed as absent.
So i bo pian go take exam during my mc, then now kena charged. Somemore i have specialist letter stating it is very important for me to take my examination. So my OC charge me but i don't plead guilty, transfer to CO, charge me but i also don't plead guilty, then to court martial.
Questions, are.. how long will i receive the letter to go for court martial?
Is my offence justified for 10days DB? (my CO was planning to give more)
I got discharged (PES F), expecting to get my IC next week, den if go court martial found guilty still under military rule?
Any advice for hiring a defence lawyer??
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You should have requested for time-off for your exams. Take off-pass mah.
Now sure get charged.
Only way is to talk to your OC, if not the CO. Get your parents there and talk to them face-to-face. That is the only way out. Most likely to reduce your sentence.
But anyway, you broke the laws, you are almost certain to be in DB.
You cant clear the clearance forms to get your IC until you finish serving your DB... and you won't be able to get your IC anyway.
NSFs do not have defence lawyers to represent them. -
Aiyo u nvr read what i type... my unit don't allow me use off! they say got directive!??Directive say that only leave is allowed. i dunno if they lying or what.
Im told that i will be getting back my IC next week, after my clearance is done. So now i am wondering if the letter for court martial would be so quick, as in before i get my IC.
My OC and CO are in cahoots, they do not let me have the chance to defend myself, they say tell me to shut up, whether i accept charge or not, i said i have personal reasons for doing so, and requested to speak to CO alone, but he reject me. I tried to give reasons but he shut me up by showing me the hand and he himself continue talking.
If i don't accept charge, which is why now I am processed to court martial.
And also i asked my rights, they say can hire lawyer to defend myself.
Are you sure you know anything or not..
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Originally posted by schi_zo:
Aiyo u nvr read what i type... my unit don't allow me use off! they say got directive!??Directive say that only leave is allowed. i dunno if they lying or what.
Im told that i will be getting back my IC next week, after my clearance is done. So now i am wondering if the letter for court martial would be so quick, as in before i get my IC.
My OC and CO are in cahoots, they do not let me have the chance to defend myself, they say tell me to shut up, whether i accept charge or not, i said i have personal reasons for doing so, and requested to speak to CO alone, but he reject me. I tried to give reasons but he shut me up by showing me the hand and he himself continue talking.
If i don't accept charge, which is why now I am processed to court martial.
And also i asked my rights, they say can hire lawyer to defend myself.
Are you sure you know anything or not..
Your OC needs to sign your clearance form and HR dept cant clear you unless you OC signs you off. Do you think he will sign for you?
Anyway, it depends what kind of exams you are taking. If O Levels and A levels then can.
You should have asked your parents to contact your OC and CO regarding those offs... -
U bo pian go take exam during ur mc than ur OC aso bo pian go charge u go DB. Simple as that. If every single nsf like u, use mc go take exam, test blah blah blah, than where is the order? If you know u hav an important exam coming, u should hav save up ur leave for it or at least, talk to ur oc NICELY beforehand. IMO, hire lawyer aso no use, waste of money. U will still be going to DB afterall...
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How did they know you went to take your exam when you're on MC?
Did the MO in your unit issued the MC or you went to clinic to get one?
I'm shocked that your unit is not supportive of education. thats the impression I seemed to get.
So, every male served NS and get this kind of fuck thing from SAF!
When you go for the court martial, you will have someone to legally-trained to represent you, I think. I read this in a web-site for things about the SAF.
I'm sure you will have a chance to make your defence. It would be unfair and unjust if military law does not have a provision for the defence to make representation.
I
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Try speaking to a counsellor. The SAF also has a counsellor to assist you.
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In the 1st place when you are on MC u are not suppose to be going out. Exams and test, maybe you should speak to your SM, chief clerk etc.......time offs are normally given to such things. You kenna charged liao go all the way court martial u also will go DB, but if u going to be discharged from army, they also can do nothing. This is the MB decision.
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What I know from my side is that, if you're on MC in the first place you're deemed as unfit for work/ns,right?
now you took this exam while you're unfit for work, even if they don't charge you for taking the exam,you'll still be charged for malingering.
If you are a boss and your employee did this, would you find it acceptable? But if your reasons are strong enough, there still could be chance.
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should have plead guilty earlier when your OC charge you, then appeal somewhere if it's too harsh.
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TS. to be honest, are u a very Fuk up NSF? honestly speaking, if u r good or ok, usually things like exam etc ur unit will let u go. unless for ops reason. think u could have given a lot of problems and tats y ur unit so harsh on u..
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PES F and going to ORD soon. Just pray that the court exercises compassion on you.
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"Somemore i have specialist letter stating it is very important for me to take my examination. "
I see this, i know there is something wrong... what specialist? education specialist? And how many days your exam? 10 days? Why never save your leave? Or you have leave but never take?
And your unit don't let you take off, you got go up the chain of command to OC, CO level? How far in advance you inform them you need to take off/leave?
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what examination? you mean like school exams or medical examination?
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Originally posted by Louis888:
How did they know you went to take your exam when you're on MC?
Did the MO in your unit issued the MC or you went to clinic to get one?
I'm shocked that your unit is not supportive of education. thats the impression I seemed to get.
So, every male served NS and get this kind of fuck thing from SAF!
When you go for the court martial, you will have someone to legally-trained to represent you, I think. I read this in a web-site for things about the SAF.
I'm sure you will have a chance to make your defence. It would be unfair and unjust if military law does not have a provision for the defence to make representation.
I
Apparently both of you are deluded into believing that you have a God given right to take exams or even moonlight during your NS days and that the SAF is obliged to bend over backwards to accommodate your personal endeavours.
Heres news for you. Wake the fuck up Betty!
First, if every NSF adopts the same attitude, the unit won't be able to function. These are active units, not playtime unreal training schools. They are meant to be mobilised in times of war or social crisis. The commanders in charge, in this case the CO and OC, are shouldering the responsibility for ensuring this gets done.
The fact that you have zero insights into the workings of running a unit other than oneself, or the ability to understand the responsibilities of commanders is unsurprising. People like you would never have been given leadership positions or deemed to have leadership qualities, in NS and in life. A lot of what is expected and the politicking in NS is a mirrored translation to real life. People like you who fail in the system fail everywhere else.
Second, The times when OC allows men to go off because of their family problems, or closes an eye to their part time job, things like this, it's because he is KIND, and wants to be understanding to the various problems that his men have. It is not a license for idiots like you to climb over their heads, or believe that it's your God-bestowed birthright. It was never a right. It was a privilege.
Thirdly, for TS unless you have a track record of malingering and always giving your officers problems, officers will normally close an eye and allow their men to do what they need to do, IF it is very urgent and can make a big difference to their life after ORD AND provided there is no ops. Your officers sound like they have marked you, because you must have given them a lot of shit. A lot of PC are also NSF and just want to serve and fuck off. When their men are problematic, it antagonises them as well. They too, want to have a problem-free and smooth NS life without being antagonised. The pain goes both ways.
Finally, from what I know you can still be court martialled after you're discharged. And of course court martial = military law. But penalties to people who have been discharged are usually more lenient, depending on mitigation. Your reason was really fucked up, so most likely won't be lenient. Good luck to you. Heard they no longer make people carry sandbags anymore. Dunno whether true or not.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
"Somemore i have specialist letter stating it is very important for me to take my examination. "
I see this, i know there is something wrong... what specialist? education specialist? And how many days your exam? 10 days? Why never save your leave? Or you have leave but never take?
And your unit don't let you take off, you got go up the chain of command to OC, CO level? How far in advance you inform them you need to take off/leave?
He was taking academic exams, most likely from private schools. Read his post, "paper", "subject", "If a paper is missed, the whole subject will be deemed as absent."
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First of All..
MC have to stay in door one
Then Ts go and take his exams
outside means he is fit to roam around
so giving the impression that is not sick at all.
Then if Pes F go to DB
will be relax one. they cant do anything to u
I used to have a camp mate Pes E tio DB
do nothing inside but just sweep the floor etc
no one dare to touch him inside..
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Originally posted by insidestory:
He was taking academic exams, most likely from private schools. Read his post, "paper", "subject", "If a paper is missed, the whole subject will be deemed as absent."
I know, just really curious how the "specialist letter" comes in
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Whatever your exam is, I m sure your course you are taking is private. For that, I believe nobody will allow you to take the off/leave as you stated you going to PES F soon?. Then you ke kiang go take MC for the exam, not only SAF, other places you are working for, I believe your superior will definitely charged you. When you are wrong aleady the OC charge you. You still brought this up to CO and made the things worse. You may say my word is harsh but that's the fact, you are guilty of malingering.
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Originally posted by schi_zo:
Hi all, just a question. I was slapped with a charge of 10 days DB, for taking my exams on mc. My leave was not enough to cover the full duration of my exams den my unit don't allow me to use off also. If a paper is missed, the whole subject will be deemed as absent.
So i bo pian go take exam during my mc, then now kena charged. Somemore i have specialist letter stating it is very important for me to take my examination. So my OC charge me but i don't plead guilty, transfer to CO, charge me but i also don't plead guilty, then to court martial.
Questions, are.. how long will i receive the letter to go for court martial?
Is my offence justified for 10days DB? (my CO was planning to give more)
I got discharged (PES F), expecting to get my IC next week, den if go court martial found guilty still under military rule?
Any advice for hiring a defence lawyer??
Do note that Leaves are mandatory but Offs are Privilege. The offs are given by your unit either based on your conduct, the importance of event or off-in-lieu and the stamp of approval is usually given by your OC.
If NSFs are all granted offs for private examinations, how would the units function? If you're granted off for your private examination, tomorrow you'll see a queue of NSFs requesting offs for Basic Theory Test, Piano Test and stuff.
And as pointed out before, what kind of specialist letter is that? Why is it so important for you to take the exam? Care to put more details?
You should have pleaded guilty when you're first charged because you have no grounds to fight for your case, judging from the inputs you gave. You broke the law, you pay the price. Because an MC is to justify that you're sick and unable to return to camp, you're liable to rest at home. Stepping out of your place without valid reason can constitute to an AWOL case and Malingering. You can be double -charged for that.
And yes, since you plead not guilty and the case is passed to a higher command each time you plead not guilty, the sentence gets heavier each time. Your CO has every right to add on to the number of days you serve in DB.
And yes again, your service will be lengthen so long as you broke the law while serving. It doesnt matter when you'll be ROD. And if your CO is determined to nail you down, be prepared to go down to your camp in your number 3 earliest today or monday.
There is no point getting a lawyer, your records will be blacklisted no matter what happens.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
I know, just really curious how the "specialist letter" comes in
Yeah, it makes you wonder just how low these specialists will go. As long as you pay them, they will write anything for you. Even rubbish. Have you checked out the stories from expats on how they are fleeced left right centre by these specialists in private practice who anyhow quote prices, or recommend unnecessary treatments? One of my friends was quoted by a specialist in Mt E $8k for a simple blood sample test. When the specialist found out she's Singaporean and only speaks like an American cos she was away for 7 yrs since she's 17, he said ok just for since you're Singaporean, $4k. Later my friend went to SGH and got the test done for $25.
I think the specialists business is kept alive by a sizeable number of NSFs here. I remember one soldier who got his specialist to write that his skin was allergic to the SAF bed, (not mattress, but bed) so he can't stay in and another soldier who managed to get a specialist dumb enough to write that the soldier is "allergic to officers".
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Originally posted by insidestory:
Yeah, it makes you wonder just how low these specialists will go. As long as you pay them, they will write anything for you. Even rubbish. Have you checked out the stories from expats on how they are fleeced left right centre by these specialists in private practice who anyhow quote prices, or recommend unnecessary treatments?
I think the specialists business is kept alive by a sizeable number of NSFs here. I remember one soldier who got his specialist to write that his skin was allergic to the SAF bed, (not mattress, but bed) so he can't stay in and another soldier who managed to get a specialist dumb enough to write that the soldier is "allergic to officers".
I've to agree on that. I've seen ridiculous excuses before: One soldier presented me with a form that says "Allergic to grass. Excused Uniform and Boots. Excused Stay In" All roll into one from a generous specialist.The counter-measure for Excuse Stay-in is simple: Book out 2200. Book in 0700.
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Originally posted by CKeer: I've to agree on that. I've seen ridiculous
excuses before: One soldier presented me with a form that says
"Allergic to grass. Excused Uniform and Boots. Excused Stay In" All
roll into one from a generous specialist.
The counter-measure for Excuse Stay-in is simple: Book out 2200. Book in 0700.
What the hell is "excuse stay in"? allergic to grass is possible. excuse uniform and boots due to skin condition possible. excuse stay in due to what?
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Originally posted by CKeer: I've to agree on that. I've seen ridiculous
excuses before: One soldier presented me with a form that says
"Allergic to grass. Excused Uniform and Boots. Excused Stay In" All
roll into one from a generous specialist.
The counter-measure for Excuse Stay-in is simple: Book out 2200. Book in 0700.
Exactly. What does that say about the state of private medical practice in Singapore? A bunch of hackjobs. Its only not moderated because MOH believes that its not right to be telling private practice specialists how much they should be making. Afterall private practice is subject to demand and supply of market forces. So all it means as long as there is a continuous stream of super idiots willing to be chopped and a pool of malingering NSFs from affluent families, the hackjobs will continue to thrive.
TS, if you wanna argue that what your do in NS and what you did isn't a reflection of your core character, and what you will very well do in corporate life, think again. NS is not called a liability for nothing. Everyone knows that. The difference is that responsible men know that responsibility means doing what you don't like to do, because you have to do it. Responsibility is not doing what you like to do, like roller coaster rides or a fun night out at the Bellagio in Vegas. Its taking care of a sick father who may bleed your finances but no choice, what to do, you have to do it or soldiering on in a job you hate because your wife has just tested positive for cancer. This is real life. And this is what people go through.
If you can take MC for your private exams and feel quite justified and smug doing so, you're the same kind of men who later in life think nothing of taking MC to get yourself rest when there's a lot of shit to do in the office, or taking MC to run your family errands during a high key period in office because "you have no choice".
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Wow. all so harsh comments, but can't be helped because it's really quite wrong to do such a thing. I agree on the part that you should have pleaded guilty the first time.