Originally posted by Chaofan:As you have put it, The amount paid to NSF is an allowance not a salary. National Service is compulsary and they are doing our nation a service. Hence they are given n allowance. Factory workers are paid Salary not Allowance.
The allowance given to NSF is quite enough given the fact that they stayed in n take meals in the camp. Anyway to sidetrack for a moment, many of the NSF also got downgraded to some psychological problem, it could be that they cannot stand in their given vocation.
If cannot stand, sit down lah, how can young men in SAF cannot stand??? dun tell me we got a group of lame soldiers enjoying life there while i hv to pay taxes to support them, and now they are asking for more allowances, then taxes is going to increase further, so please, NSmen, dun burden your citizens who you vowed to protect ya
Originally posted by angel7030:If cannot stand, sit down lah, how can young men in SAF cannot stand??? dun tell me we got a group of lame soldiers enjoying life there while i hv to pay taxes to support them, and now they are asking for more allowances, then taxes is going to increase further, so please, NSmen, dun burden your citizens who you vowed to protect ya
National Servicemen or NSFs, are conscript soldiers. As the concept implies, the governing body is not obliged to pay them anything, salary or otherwise. However the law makes this provision for the servicemen.
This allowance is not a salary. Since the servicemen are conscripts, the allowance are given to them for personal use, something akin to your parents giving you allowance when you attend school though they are in no way obliged to do so.
Somebody mentioned that maybe we do provide them a market rate salary, and maybe hold the bulk of this monies and only release it on ORD or ROD. To give servicemen a proper salary comparable to the regulars is not economically feasible and would probably tax our government expenditure. Also this would demoralize the regular service as they do not feel as though they are appreciated for committing to the service as opposed to the NSFs who are there in passing.
Maybe i can suggest that as a recognition for NSFs, further education should be subsidised for them or maybe even tax exemptions. Maybe this is not done so those who do not serve feel as if they are second class citizens. But i still feel that NSFs and NSmen deserve further recognition. The amount of subsidy can be pegged or comparable to the approximate loss of income should the servicemen have entered a tertiary education instead of NS and found work subsequently.
shd reduce NS to 1 year...just like taiwan, israel and s. korea. That will contribute greatly to the nation's productivity and output. And reduce the dependency on foreign trash.
no, cannot, our young men are not as strong as taiwanese or israelis young men, so need 2 years to fully train them, it is also productive in a sense that our young men go thru a more proper training course, just like if you cannot go into express class, go thru the normal class also can, we are just going thru the normal class, cos i think our young physical shape and mentality need a longer time to nurture. I think 2 years is appropriate, easy going and just nice.
I think if we all want to be helpfull not give suggestions that are not really feasible.
I have served in NS and i don't think that it can or should be reduced any further, unless the situation has changed and it really is feasible to do so. Some countries can afford to have shorter National Service, then thats good for them. But you have to see what trainings the soldiers receive. IF there are all rifle men, foot soldiers, then i say a year of intensive training can produce you a decent foot soldier. However, our NSFs are given training beyond that, for command school, to operate Tanks, Artillery, some Command Control and Communication systems and other specialized vocations that require additional training.
So One year is definitely not enough. If you extend or shorten the liablity based on the vocation, then some people won't want to be posted to certain vocations or command school as OUR systems require.
You have to understand that the needs of Singapore Militarily is very different then that of other countries.
ya, remember the word National service, they trained you, so you got to service the nation, if train train and then one year gone with any service, train for what???
Originally posted by angel7030:no, cannot, our young men are not as strong as taiwanese or israelis young men, so need 2 years to fully train them, it is also productive in a sense that our young men go thru a more proper training course, just like if you cannot go into express class, go thru the normal class also can, we are just going thru the normal class, cos i think our young physical shape and mentality need a longer time to nurture. I think 2 years is appropriate, easy going and just nice.
Originally posted by angel7030:ya, remember the word National service, they trained you, so you got to service the nation, if train train and then one year gone with any service, train for what???
The stooopidity of a Taiwanese 'hum' in making itself irrelevant is obvious to its core.
Is anyone impressed with its daily routine of spreading its ignorance that it will insist to impose its presence here ?
All that it is good at is to spread its ignorance, rub caustic remarks to agitate and be a bore to drive any thread off track.
This is another daily routine display of idiocy and irrelevance of the Taiwanese 'hum' to exercise its ‘Labia Majora’ and ‘Labia Minora’ - simply to attract attention to itself as the resident 'Attention Seeking Whore'.
Originally posted by Audiophile:Maybe i can suggest that as a recognition for NSFs, further education should be subsidised for them or maybe even tax exemptions. Maybe this is not done so those who do not serve feel as if they are second class citizens. But i still feel that NSFs and NSmen deserve further recognition. The amount of subsidy can be pegged or comparable to the approximate loss of income should the servicemen have entered a tertiary education instead of NS and found work subsequently.
Alot of Maybes...you serve NS to protect your country which in term protect the old, youngs and girl like me, not for glory or some stupid exemptions, be objective.
Originally posted by angel7030:
Alot of Maybes...you serve NS to protect your country which in term protect the old, youngs and girl like me, not for glory or some stupid exemptions, be objective.
This is another daily routine display of idiocy and irrelevance of the Taiwanese 'hum' to exercise its ‘Labia Majora’ and ‘Labia Minora’ - simply to attract attention to itself as the resident 'Attention Seeking Whore'.
Originally posted by Audiophile:I think if we all want to be helpfull not give suggestions that are not really feasible.
I have served in NS and i don't think that it can or should be reduced any further, unless the situation has changed and it really is feasible to do so. Some countries can afford to have shorter National Service, then thats good for them. But you have to see what trainings the soldiers receive. IF there are all rifle men, foot soldiers, then i say a year of intensive training can produce you a decent foot soldier. However, our NSFs are given training beyond that, for command school, to operate Tanks, Artillery, some Command Control and Communication systems and other specialized vocations that require additional training.
So One year is definitely not enough. If you extend or shorten the liablity based on the vocation, then some people won't want to be posted to certain vocations or command school as OUR systems require.
You have to understand that the needs of Singapore Militarily is very different then that of other countries.
It can be done la....Most of what the vocations learn can be completed within one year. The rest of the NS is just repeating what one has learned during training / specialized training. Perhaps if shortening to 1 year is too much, then have a graduated reduction to 1 1/2 years...learn from the progress and eventually shorten it to 1 year.
If you say "You have to understand that the needs of Singapore Military is very different then that of other countries.", then may I ask u: what are the militaries of other countries with conscription and how fundamentally different is ours from theirs?
if reduce to 1 years, not only the service is not there, the training may not be precise, moreover alot of guys who served 2 or 2/5 years will be cursing and ask for compensation. Hope u understand our situation
also, need to invest in weaponary, technology, etc
try to invent and make our own country weapn, equipment, etc
cos of our low birth rate
maybe one day no need fighter jet pilot - control by computer
Originally posted by angel7030:if reduce to 1 years, not only the service is not there, the training may not be precise, moreover alot of guys who served 2 or 2/5 years will be cursing and ask for compensation. Hope u understand our situation
Do the words "our situation" apply to you - a Taiwanese 'hum' ?
NS has nothing to do with a Taiwanese 'hum' - especially when you are not even a 'he' and probably not even a 'she' - and not most unlikely to be an 'it' - what possibly can you be - except 'shit' ....
This is another daily routine shameless display of idiocy and irrelevance of the Taiwanese 'hum' to exercise its ‘Labia Majora’ and ‘Labia Minora’ - simply to attract attention to itself as the resident 'Attention Seeking Whore'.
i am applying the confusion ideology, make you confuse and then attack you lor..hehhehehe...not confucius hor
Originally posted by angel7030:i am applying the confusion ideology, make you confuse and then attack you lor..hehhehehe...not confucius hor
This is another daily routine display of idiocy and irrelevance of the Taiwanese 'hum' to exercise its ‘Labia Majora’ and ‘Labia Minora’ - simply to attract attention to itself as the resident 'Attention Seeking Whore'.
what about those gurkha freshie soldiers from Nepal stationed at mount vernon.......??how much are they paid per month?
Originally posted by angel7030:if reduce to 1 years, not only the service is not there, the training may not be precise, moreover alot of guys who served 2 or 2/5 years will be cursing and ask for compensation. Hope u understand our situation
i think u have no idea what u r talking about.
Originally posted by Rock^Star:It can be done la....Most of what the vocations learn can be completed within one year. The rest of the NS is just repeating what one has learned during training / specialized training. Perhaps if shortening to 1 year is too much, then have a graduated reduction to 1 1/2 years...learn from the progress and eventually shorten it to 1 year.
If you say "You have to understand that the needs of Singapore Military is very different then that of other countries.", then may I ask u: what are the militaries of other countries with conscription and how fundamentally different is ours from theirs?
Training can be done. But there are other things that take place after that. We still need assesment provided by ATEC, more practice to make them truly competent.
So in that way, if you take a serviecman who has the NAPFA requirements, then he'll be only serving 1yr 10 months.
3 months BMT, 6-9 months command school and/or vocation training. Thats already a year. So lets say he's more or less a qualified soldier. But he has no real field experience. That is why we have overseas exercise, exercise with other services within SAF, ATEC and such. All this require preparation and such.
The way the SAF is managed is that some factions are almore entirely managed, run and composed of the NSFs/Nsman with the exception of only the leadership thats really at the top.
For there to be proper confidence and proper capability they have to be extensively trained and assessed. Throwing a soldier trained or otherwise into the battlefield without making sure that he CAN do the job and making sure that he has enough experince is as good as sending him to his death.
AND the requirements of Singapore is a little different that other countries primarily because we lack strategice depth. Should war come, ideally, we need to project our defensive line well into the enemy space so that our civillians are safe, our infrastructure is still there so that we can recover from war. Because of this we need to train in places other than our own.
If we want to bother we National Service at all, might as well make sure that it is done properly.
Anyway, we are getting away from the topic. I believe it is whether we should increase the allowance of the NSFs to be comparable to the Regulars. I maintain my answer to be No. The allowance is sufficient. The SAF (not counting the police force and SCDF who have additional allowance to make provisions for such cases) provides pretty much a complete range of basic necessities from food, shelter clothing (with the exception of underwear, but i'm sure we can manage - these things are what the allowance is for btw, miscellaneous things) and such.
Originally posted by angel7030:
Alot of Maybes...you serve NS to protect your country which in term protect the old, youngs and girl like me, not for glory or some stupid exemptions, be objective.
Also, its true that we serve to protect the country. But still it is not extirely ridiculous of us to expect some recognition and compensation. We give up the prime of our lives training for the war we hope will never come. Atleast there could be some gratitude.
Some subsidy in the form of local tertiary education is not entirely ridiculous. We did loose all that time. If we didn't go through NS and got into UNI, we would be working 2 more years earninig 2k+++. Which the girls and those who don't serve already benefit from.
Originally posted by Wmyongj:Yep, the salary could split into a monthly pay and a deferred pay in lump sum payment during their ROD. They can use it for the university fee or elsewhere. My point if our boy must serve the nation than we should pay them appropriately. Isnt wat the government ask from us in everything that we are paying???
that's why they don't call it 'pay'
u don't ask your mommy / daddy for minimum 'pay' when they are giving u an 'allowance' right?
The idea of tough training is good but some of the servicement are not able to take it. Sometimes we got to step back n think whether it is worthwhile for 2 years of NS training, we get injured or become psycologically unstable. If the injury is permanent, it will stay for life. One of the female forumers seemed to be delusional n cannot argue constructively.
Originally posted by Audiophile:Training can be done. But there are other things that take place after that. We still need assesment provided by ATEC, more practice to make them truly competent.
So in that way, if you take a serviecman who has the NAPFA requirements, then he'll be only serving 1yr 10 months.
3 months BMT, 6-9 months command school and/or vocation training. Thats already a year. So lets say he's more or less a qualified soldier. But he has no real field experience. That is why we have overseas exercise, exercise with other services within SAF, ATEC and such. All this require preparation and such.
The way the SAF is managed is that some factions are almore entirely managed, run and composed of the NSFs/Nsman with the exception of only the leadership thats really at the top.
For there to be proper confidence and proper capability they have to be extensively trained and assessed. Throwing a soldier trained or otherwise into the battlefield without making sure that he CAN do the job and making sure that he has enough experince is as good as sending him to his death.
AND the requirements of Singapore is a little different that other countries primarily because we lack strategice depth. Should war come, ideally, we need to project our defensive line well into the enemy space so that our civillians are safe, our infrastructure is still there so that we can recover from war. Because of this we need to train in places other than our own.
If we want to bother we National Service at all, might as well make sure that it is done properly.
Anyway, we are getting away from the topic. I believe it is whether we should increase the allowance of the NSFs to be comparable to the Regulars. I maintain my answer to be No. The allowance is sufficient. The SAF (not counting the police force and SCDF who have additional allowance to make provisions for such cases) provides pretty much a complete range of basic necessities from food, shelter clothing (with the exception of underwear, but i'm sure we can manage - these things are what the allowance is for btw, miscellaneous things) and such.
Also, its true that we serve to protect the country. But still it is not extirely ridiculous of us to expect some recognition and compensation. We give up the prime of our lives training for the war we hope will never come. Atleast there could be some gratitude.
Some subsidy in the form of local tertiary education is not entirely ridiculous. We did loose all that time. If we didn't go through NS and got into UNI, we would be working 2 more years earninig 2k+++. Which the girls and those who don't serve already benefit from.
I read that command school have servicemen dropping out due to injury.
the current bunch of boys are complete pussies if they consider what they have now as tough
