Unisex Equality: NS for Girls ?
-
Originally posted by sitonmylap:
It doesn't suck Gabriella. LOLX!
We are just doing what is required of us, and it is like an ancient tradition.
Sparta man reaching 18 will pick up his own weaponary and report for duty to fight for his country, we are just like that also! *Using Sparta cause it just make NS sound more Cool. LOLX*
Be thankful to your dad, brothers, friends who are doing this. For they ensure you are safe. =D
Personally, I believe that in this day and age, NS should not be only a "man's" responsibility anymore. Just because a person's being born a male doesn't mean he should be a cannon folder in times of war due to his gender-role. Similary, we do not expect women to only wear skirt and stay in the kitchen anymore.
Woman should play a part in our defense and other forms of NS too.
-
Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
Personally, I believe that in this day and age, NS should not be only a "man's" responsibility anymore. Just because a person's being born a male doesn't mean he should be a cannon folder in times of war due to his gender-role. Similary, we do not expect women to only wear skirt and stay in the kitchen anymore.
Woman should play a part in our defense and other forms of NS too.
women give birth to the boys going ns..
-
Originally posted by _Da_Dood_:
skali open letter " please report to pasir ris camp" =X
Got a perfectly functioning brain and limbs dont have to worry about posting orders -
Originally posted by stellazio:
women give birth to the boys going ns..
To have children or not can be a "choice". But NS isn't a "choice".
PES E guys still have to serve 2 years, while PES A girls get to start their career much earlier.
Furthermore what about the uglier or fat chicks who have a lesser chance to get married anyway?
-
Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
Just because a person's being born a male doesn't mean he should be a cannon folder in times of war due to his gender-role.
Cannon can fold one meh?
-
Originally posted by Gedanken:
Cannon can fold one meh?
He means Cannon Fodder.
-
Well gee, thanks so much for clearing that up.
-
Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
Personally, I believe that in this day and age, NS should not be only a "man's" responsibility anymore. Just because a person's being born a male doesn't mean he should be a cannon folder in times of war due to his gender-role. Similary, we do not expect women to only wear skirt and stay in the kitchen anymore.
Woman should play a part in our defense and other forms of NS too.
Ya i agree too. Woman are "fighting" for equal rights and treatment, but still cry foul play when being punch in the face by a dude. I doubt woman in SG serving NS is still a long long way to go.
I personally respect woman in Israel where they are have to serve a period of 2 years as a non-combatant to a combatant. They face constant danger serving in a hostile environment and not complain because they are chicks.
Unless SG face some horrible conflicts soon with half of our population wiped out in concentration camps and enemy weapons, man will complain about NS and woman will take it for granted.
And with the girls you see around everyday, I doubt they can survive NS. Seriously man! Take a look around. Ask them run under the sun during my secondary school, all complain and complain and want to cry and fake got period cannot run. Poly even worst, NAPFA no longer compulsory and they totally let themselves go. Clubbing and shopping is the only thing they know. Go to school and dress like some slut going to clubbing hoping to get laid.
Point is girls in army is long way to go. Girls are welcome to get angry and scold me. But at the end of the day, no anger or scolding will affect me or us because you ain't doing shit. =D Peace
-
I think when put under an appropriate situation anyone (regardless of gender) can and will adapt. Men are not innately "emotionally strong" too. Its just that the societal pressure for men to appear tuff that "most" try to act macho due to conditioning of what society expect of someone born as a male. There are also guys couldn't handle it mentally, but keep it inside till the point of breaking for fear of showing weakness.
To illustrate the gender inequality, here a quote to illustrate this point:
My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars are not won by destroying women and children."-- William Leahy
(Not implying that it is ok to "destroy woman and children") But its as though in the eyes of society, killing/hurting men are considerable more ok/acceptable -- that men's life are less important compared to women and children. IMO, there is a lot more to life than just about being tuff and macho, for a guy to feel self-worth. Brains should be extoled more than bronze in the 21st century where "hunting dangerous animals for food" and "protecting the family from other tribes, where the women of the tribe has their own restrictive and distinctive role to play TOO" are a thing of the past.
-
Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
To have children or not can be a "choice". But NS isn't a "choice".
PES E guys still have to serve 2 years, while PES A girls get to start their career much earlier.
Furthermore what about the uglier or fat chicks who have a lesser chance to get married anyway?
The things you say above are correct so what? When translated to practical terms there is no effect. Official stats have shown that women earn at least 30% than men when both are doing the same job in Singapore, and out of top positions here like ministers, CEOs, women are hardly seen whereas guys are abundant. After close to 50 years of independence did SG receive its first woman full-minister, Lim Hwee Hua. And out of the top 10 highest paid CEOs in Singapore, only 1 is female and she only became CEO by fluke.
The fact that women end up earning less in the same jobs performed by men, up to 30% less, including those in middle management and are hardly seen in top management shows that the 2 yrs of NS mean nothing when it comes to affecting the career. It gives them a 2 yr headstart at the start, but after a few years, tapers off to nothing.
-
Originally posted by Fatum:
some people come out of it a man,
some people come out of it still a boy,
some people come out of it a guniang,
your choice.
Some people come out a homicidal maniac.I have lost count of the above number of cases in IMH.
-
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Some people come out a homicidal maniac.I have lost count of the above number of cases in IMH.
you work @ IMH?
-
Originally posted by insidestory:
The things you say above are correct so what? When translated to practical terms there is no effect. Official stats have shown that women earn at least 30% than men when both are doing the same job in Singapore, and out of top positions here like ministers, CEOs, women are hardly seen whereas guys are abundant. After close to 50 years of independence did SG receive its first woman full-minister, Lim Hwee Hua. And out of the top 10 highest paid CEOs in Singapore, only 1 is female and she only became CEO by fluke.
The fact that women end up earning less in the same jobs performed by men, up to 30% less, including those in middle management and are hardly seen in top management shows that the 2 yrs of NS mean nothing when it comes to affecting the career. It gives them a 2 yr headstart at the start, but after a few years, tapers off to nothing.
Because women are not stupid, why bother to work as hard and be as cut throat as the highest CEO when they can just marry the man and enjoy the legal rights to half his assets?
Factor that little info into the Maths in terms of effort + time spent, i'd say women made the far smarter choice.
-
Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
I think when put under an appropriate situation anyone (regardless of gender) can and will adapt. Men are not innately "emotionally strong" too. Its just that the societal pressure for men to appear tuff that "most" try to act macho due to conditioning of what society expect of someone born as a male. There are also guys couldn't handle it mentally, but keep it inside till the point of breaking for fear of showing weakness.
To illustrate the gender inequality, here a quote to illustrate this point:
(Not implying that it is ok to "destroy woman and children") But its as though in the eyes of society, killing/hurting men are considerable more ok/acceptable -- that men's life are less important compared to women and children. IMO, there is a lot more to life than just about being tuff and macho, for a guy to feel self-worth. Brains should be extoled more than bronze in the 21st century where "hunting dangerous animals for food" and "protecting the family from other tribes, where the women of the tribe has their own restrictive and distinctive role to play TOO" are a thing of the past.
Men don't need to "act tough" and neither are they mentally and physically stronger because of social conditioning or pressure. If you're not a gay fag, you are supposed to be mentally stronger than a woman.
It is in-built into the genetic make-up, and the fact that men are built stronger physically is an indication that it is the way God or evolution, depending on your spiritual taste, had intended.
In fact if you believe in Evolution, you will know that it is the male species that went out to hunt and biologically is inclined to protect his tribe (his woman and children). In evolution, men are known to compete with one another to be the Alphamale. Who is this man? He is the one who gets to mate with all the females of his tribe, thus propagating his seeds and DNA. It is known as survival of the fittest. All animals, from hippos to tigers have an alphamale and watch those documentaries please, they tear each other's balls out to be the alphamale. and if you own a pet, you will know that the male one is always more aggressive than the female one. Anyone who ever had a pet from a dog, to a turtle know this.
Don't make excuses for your weakness. History has shown that men are biologically built to expand their empire, and they do it by force. Its even scientifically and medically proven, and they have even identified the ingredient that causes certain character traits of men and women that result in different behaviour, ta dah, its the testosterone and in women, the estrogen.
This is why there are over 100 armies in the world. The people behind them? The men who are all geared up to protect their own land or expand their territories at the expense of others. This is why war is the only time killing another person is sanctioned.
And you completely misunderstand the quote you pasted. The writer who is against war, is decrying the destruction of women and children during wartime. They are given priorities in a crisis because of the weakness associated with them.
-
Well, since Males are supposed to be built physically and mentally stronger they get into combat vocation.
I understand the point that some of you guys are trying to bring up. Females should serve NS also. Let them serve in the operational vocation, give them some physical training as well. Look at the ladies in singapore nowadays, most of them turned out into total sluts who knows nothing more than shopping, complaining, bitching and clubbing. Taking the defence of Singapore for granted.
-
Originally posted by crus:
Well, since Males are supposed to be built physically and mentally stronger they get into combat vocation.
I understand the point that some of you guys are trying to bring up. Females should serve NS also. Let them serve in the operational vocation, give them some physical training as well. Look at the ladies in singapore nowadays, most of them turned out into total sluts who knows nothing more than shopping, complaining, bitching and clubbing. Taking the defence of Singapore for granted.
Males are "supposed" to be physically built, but that does not applies for all guys. There are plent of sporty women who "can" be fitter than some guys.
Mental strength is conditioned, not innate.
Besides, my beef with NS isn't really about the tough training and all, but the fact that 2.5years of my life have been wasted, and my experience with some of the worst ass-holes I've ever met in my life. In fact, I did enjoy the training and everything, but it is ultimately a waste-of-time.
I believe that NS should be made unisexual, and be reduced to 1.5 years (Max), and those who have already served the full 2-2.5years be compensated in terms of tax-reduction or CPF top-ups at the expense of those who did not serve (i.e. immigrants and females).
-
Originally posted by insidestory:
Men don't need to "act tough" and neither are they mentally and physically stronger because of social conditioning or pressure. If you're not a gay fag, you are supposed to be mentally stronger than a woman.
That is your opinion. However, contrary to your believe, there are homosexuals who are actually mentally stronger and physically more hairy/mascular masculine than most straight guys too. The only feature that gays have in common is that they are naturally sexually attracted to those of the same gender. Being not physically strong, or refusing to act tuff does not make a person "gay".
There are even women who are also mentally and physically strong too, and some even more aggressive/violent than most males. Statistical studies have actually shown that woman are just as aggressive as males.
Mental strenght is nothing more than a societal imposition on guys. The hyper-machismo indoctorination that if you are a guy, you should not openly express your emotions, unless its anger, and keep everything else bottled inside. And besides there are women who are mentally stronger than a lot of males too; and even physically, except that those are not the "woman-template" that strikes your mind when you think of a generic "woman" form.
It is in-built into the genetic make-up, and the fact that men are built stronger physically is an indication that it is the way God or evolution, depending on your spiritual taste, had intended.
In fact if you believe in Evolution, you will know that it is the male species that went out to hunt and biologically is inclined to protect his tribe (his woman and children). In evolution, men are known to compete with one another to be the Alphamale.
Evolution is never static. We are continuously evolving. There are those who prefer to be stuck as unevolved violent/aggressive hairy low-brow cavemen. While there are guys who aspires to be 'humans'. I believe a man's (or even woman's) worth should not be based on their physical attributes, but on their intellect and creativity. Violent macho-brutes to me are nothing more than unevolved inferior sub-humans.
In fact if you believe in Evolution, you will know that it is the male species that went out to hunt and biologically is inclined to protect his tribe (his woman and children). In evolution, men are known to compete with one another to be the Alphamale. Who is this man? He is the one who gets to mate with all the females of his tribe, thus propagating his seeds and DNA. It is known as survival of the fittest. All animals, from hippos to tigers have an alphamale and watch those documentaries please, they tear each other's balls out to be the alphamale. and if you own a pet, you will know that the male one is always more aggressive than the female one. Anyone who ever had a pet from a dog, to a turtle know this.
But point is we do not hunt for food anymore. We do not kill and rape people of other tribes. Being an "animal" is not required of a man in this day an age. Intelligence IMO should play more importance than resemblence to a chest-thumping gorilla.
-
Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
you work @ IMH?
Just a volunteer helper at times. Why? Have a little support for the silver ribbon. -
Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
Personally, I believe that in this day and age, NS should not be only a "man's" responsibility anymore. Just because a person's being born a male doesn't mean he should be a cannon folder in times of war due to his gender-role. Similary, we do not expect women to only wear skirt and stay in the kitchen anymore.
Woman should play a part in our defense and other forms of NS too.
PN, I sympathize with your arguments for extending NS to women, on the basis of gender equality. I agree with you that women should play a part in our country's defence. I have also no doubt that, should the need ever arise, we as a country *can* and *will* make women do NS. However, the key word here is "need".The current security threats to Singapore is at a normal high (terrorism included), but it is not high enough for us to claim that we need to (almost) double the strength of our armed forces by making NS mandatory for women. Our current military forces serve us well enough in offering a credible deterrence against any potential aggressor. Of course, this assessment should be re-evaluated should the geo-political situation in our region change significantly and Singaporeans perceive that our security threat has markedly increased. But this defence need is not present at the moment.
If we extend NS to women just for the sake of gender equality, the net costs will be unbearably high. Internally: on the economic front, we will be taking a whole chunk of the young work force away (just for the sake of gender equality), while on the social front, we will be confronting widespread complaints from disgruntled female Singaporeans. Externally: our neighbours might perceive this move as a unilateral military build-up on our part, and counteracts by expanding on their military, resulting in an arms-race that sucks up everybody's resources for the benefit of no one.
So it seems to me that any potential benefit that may be derived from making women do NS (such as being able to claim that we practice gender equality) would be very marginal compared to the total costs in terms of loss of human resources and economic contributions --- things that Singapore can hardly spare.
Having said all this, I do think that the male Singaporeans --- those who have given 2 years of their youth plus 10 years of their working life for the defence of our country --- are not well-compensated enough for their sacrifices and contributions. But I believe making NS mandatory for female Singaporeans as well is a cure that is far worse than the disease.
-
No need to talk so much. Serve and fuck off.
-
Originally posted by shark_boy:
pray u get into a slack vocation which allow u to book in n out of camp everday n work from 8am to 5:30pm
Why cant all vocation book in 8am, book out maybe 6pm daily?
Let the boys go home, that will be less stress on them.
Mindef should consider this option.
-
Originally posted by likeyou:
Why cant all vocation book in 8am, book out maybe 6pm daily?
Let the boys go home, that will be less stress on them.
Mindef should consider this option.
A lot of the NSFs don't drive, so this option is only attractive for someone whose home is next to their camps. Frankly after a long hard day which started at 5, staying in is not a bad idea compared to taking the bus from Jurong back to Pasir Ris.
-
Originally posted by insidestory:
A lot of the NSFs don't drive, so this option is only attractive for someone whose home is next to their camps. Frankly after a long hard day which started at 5, staying in is not a bad idea compared to taking the bus from Jurong back to Pasir Ris.
I have to agree, if u stay very far away, staying in is not bad idea......i noe of frens staying in near cbd area, clerk vocation in PLC, still stay in becos going home can be quite a hassle. Imagine how early u have to wake up and take the bus.....
-
Originally posted by insidestory:
A lot of the NSFs don't drive, so this option is only attractive for someone whose home is next to their camps. Frankly after a long hard day which started at 5, staying in is not a bad idea compared to taking the bus from Jurong back to Pasir Ris.
I say, that's a grand idea. Why don't we crossbreed JI with DHL so that the fighting can be brought right to your doorstep in times of war?
-
Originally posted by russiabear:
@kiraM
NS BMT is not fun. it's tough. if you already do NCC in school or equivalent, then it should be fine. if not, hope your fitness level is high, then it should be ok. why only ok and not easy? cos you have SOC (std obstacle course). clearing obstacles in bloody heavy combat gear.
otherwise, get ready to suffer. the good thing is, you wont die. you are allowed to report sick if you are really sick. if you are not really sick, dont report sick. if you dont come back from the medical doctor with a minimum Attend B cert (excused from some forms of training), you are going to get into serious trouble.
the most important thing is actually not fitness but attitude. do BMT like you want it. enjoy it. cos if you dont you are basically in jail. look at it as stepping stone to better things. for example. if you do well in BMT, and your studies are ok (JC) then you can aim for OCS (officer training) which leads to more NS pay. since you are going to suffer you might as well get more pay for it.
finally, use your common sense. dont do stupid things in BMT (like picking up smoking from bad influences). learn to work as a team and meet new friends.
I Will Take Your Advice Thanks For The Post =D