OH! No more 5 minute rule before i can post again! YEAH!
Hey Itedino! Thanks for sharing your view! Greatly appreciated!
* You can see friends around u. Either IPPT failed or Pes C. why real figure to hurt our country. As agreed. For show ma.
Hmmmm.... I not sure thou. I have friends who are just wth weak but i do have mates who are fit as hell. 30 plus chin up one go is no problem for them. Some are weak and some are strong. But still can't say much from what happening around me thou. =D
* A strong forces consist of how many regulars. Refer to US and China. U need a 3 star to rule over i mean i est 100,000 regular and active NSF. What kind of logic. Read history. 4 to 5 star is always born when a war start and all the reserve forces became active or after war.
Hmmm... well i don't know much about this. Number of troops need for a general. I am open to any comments and I will read further about this. Thanks!
* So can you list down his concern of work for our country to see, please include his salary also so we can benchmark. No offense.
HAHA! Yeah his salary is out of his world. But I guess no country release their Generals salary. If they do then we should really compare and demand a decrease. But every logical reasoning should be able to tell that his concerns should be plenty. Just the training death occurring lately should keep him busy for a while. Now our neighbor is having a little religion conflict going on, I believe he will have to consider a possible situation happening there and how it will affect us. I believe he do have a lot of concerns but just can't anyhow let people know thou. =D
* so u only check on one country AUS. How about others?
HAHA! Sorry about that~ My bad my bad! But since Aust like closest to us. I thought i just google it and see it.
Originally posted by Itedino:
Just study sun zi bin fa. attack the heart rather than using physical force against the enemy.Brother, FYI. LG Bey soo chiang is from chief of Airforce and last time was our CDF.
OH! Really? I was trying to find a list of our past CDF but to no avail!
Thanks for sharing!
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Originally posted by sitonmylap:Major-General (MG) Neo Kian Hong, currently Chief of Army, will take over from Lieutenant-General (LG) Desmond Kuek Bak Chye as Chief of Defence Force on 31 Mar 2010.
Brigadier-General (BG) Chan Chun Sing, currently Chief of Staff - Joint Staff, will assume the appointment of Chief of Army on 26 Mar 2010.
These changes are part of the continuing process of leadership renewal in the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF).
Oh man! What are the possible changes you guys can see?
LG Kuek took the step forward and brought the second generation SAF into a 3G SAF. I wonder what the new CDF will bring to the table.
My 2 cents worth, I think leadership should consists of warriors, not scholars.
In LG Kuek's own words:
Three years ago, I outlined our vision for One SAF. This was to be realised through three key thrusts under the acronym O-N-E. The first was to operationalise the first spiral of the 3rd Generation SAF, and by 2010, we will be stepping into the next spiral of development. (see his recent interview in Pioneer)
So MG Neo will have the next spiral of development to bring to the table. As to what exactly that is seems to be anyone's guess so far. My guess: greater integration of the new platforms across the three services. He will also have the new MDES scheme to implement.
Warriors-vs-scholars: It takes someone with sufficient brain juice to understand the complexity of today's geopolitical situation and to fully utilize the high-tech military assets we have. I for one will be very worried if the senior leadership in the SAF consists of only belligerent, old-school minded gunghos.
Originally posted by sitonmylap:OH! Really? I was trying to find a list of our past CDF but to no avail!
Thanks for sharing!
CDF post was created in 1990, before that it was called chief of general staff (CGS). pls correct me if i'm wrong:
1990 - 1992 LG Winston Choo (later High Commissioner to Australia)
1992 - 1995 LG Ng Jui Ping
1995 - 2000 LG Bey Soo Khiang (only CDF from RSAF, later joined SIA)
2000 - 2003 LG Lim Chuan Poh (currently A*Star Chairman)
2003 - 2007 LG Ng Yat Chung (currently a director in Temasek Holdings)
2007 - 2010 LG Desmond Kuek (already a director of JTC)
Originally posted by nobrainer:In LG Kuek's own words:
Three years ago, I outlined our vision for One SAF. This was to be realised through three key thrusts under the acronym O-N-E. The first was to operationalise the first spiral of the 3rd Generation SAF, and by 2010, we will be stepping into the next spiral of development. (see his recent interview in Pioneer)
So MG Neo will have the next spiral of development to bring to the table. As to what exactly that is seems to be anyone's guess so far. My guess: greater integration of the new platforms across the three services. He will also have the new MDES scheme to implement.
Warriors-vs-scholars: It takes someone with sufficient brain juice to understand the complexity of today's geopolitical situation and to fully utilize the high-tech military assets we have. I for one will be very worried if the senior leadership in the SAF consists of only belligerent, old-school minded gunghos.
hey nobrainer! Thanks for sharing! And thanks for the "first" post honour. LOL
Hmmm i should have paid more attention while reading the article. Thanks for sharing.
Since the operationalize of 3G SAF is pretty much done with the Advance Combat Man System and the purchasing of new shooter assets and the Battlefield Management System that help integrate all the 3 services into a effective fighting system , I guess the new COA will have to do what you said, make everything much more better.
But i read a recent article of the incoming CDF, he emphasised that, at the core of Singapore's defence is not advanced hardware, but "the hearts and minds of our people". and "The most important issue, however, boils down to the hearts and minds of our people. You can have a lot of solid equipment, but are you willing to fight for your country?" - MG Neo.
I guess he will do something to change the mindset of young Singaporean the need to defend what we call home. "Expecting lots of flaming but all views are welcome! =D"
Maybe I am too used to see Generals fighting along side man.
Perhaps Junior Commender's should be warriors with some brain but Generals should be all brain since they are so old already. LOL
Originally posted by sir_peanuts:
CDF post was created in 1990, before that it was called chief of general staff (CGS). pls correct me if i'm wrong:
1990 - 1992 LG Winston Choo (later High Commissioner to Australia)
1992 - 1995 LG Ng Jui Ping
1995 - 2000 LG Bey Soo Khiang (only CDF from RSAF, later joined SIA)
2000 - 2003 LG Lim Chuan Poh (currently A*Star Chairman)
2003 - 2007 LG Ng Yat Chung (currently a director in Temasek Holdings)
2007 - 2010 LG Desmond Kuek (already a director of JTC)
Thanks for sharing sir_peanuts!
I remember LG Ng Yat Chung, a rather chubby man. Saw him on the book about Operation Flying Eagle, talking to serviceman who are about to go to help.
Lame question, can i go Army market and buy a 3 star rank? LOLX!
Originally posted by sir_peanuts:
CDF post was created in 1990, before that it was called chief of general staff (CGS). pls correct me if i'm wrong:
1990 - 1992 LG Winston Choo (later High Commissioner to Australia)
1992 - 1995 LG Ng Jui Ping
1995 - 2000 LG Bey Soo Khiang (only CDF from RSAF, later joined SIA)
2000 - 2003 LG Lim Chuan Poh (currently A*Star Chairman)
2003 - 2007 LG Ng Yat Chung (currently a director in Temasek Holdings)
2007 - 2010 LG Desmond Kuek (already a director of JTC)
Well. That's good effort from you. Btw, can i know the history of each CDF. :P
Originally posted by Itedino:Well. That's good effort from you. Btw, can i know the history of each CDF. :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Choo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng_Jui_Ping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bey_Soo_Khiang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Chuan_Poh
Originally posted by keeptouch:Anyway, if leadership consists of warriors and not scholars, than what if this saying "got strength but got no brains" comes true
Both MG Neo KH and BG Chan CS are scholars. Both are SAFOS, BG Chan is also a president's scholar, and he is VERY smart. Have seen him in action before. Only SAFOS are considered scholars in the SAF.
I predict BG Tan Chuan Jin will be next COA.
Originally posted by gigabyte14:ranger and guards sia
damn cool sia
guards = infantry. there is no difference at all. anyone who has served NS will know that. its only people who has yet to enlist who don't know.
Originally posted by kengkia:y CDFs always come from army one? y not navy or air force..
Because they are smaller in size in the grand scheme of SAF, making army the most influential service in the SAF.
BG Ng Chee Kern, current CAF was widely gossiped to be the next CDF, but he lost to Mg Neo.
In any case, there has been one CDF who didn't come from Army, LG Bey Soo Kiang. Besides him all the rest are from army.
Navy has fared the worst, producing ZERO CDF haha.
Originally posted by nobrainer:In LG Kuek's own words:
Three years ago, I outlined our vision for One SAF. This was to be realised through three key thrusts under the acronym O-N-E. The first was to operationalise the first spiral of the 3rd Generation SAF, and by 2010, we will be stepping into the next spiral of development. (see his recent interview in Pioneer)
So MG Neo will have the next spiral of development to bring to the table. As to what exactly that is seems to be anyone's guess so far. My guess: greater integration of the new platforms across the three services. He will also have the new MDES scheme to implement.
Warriors-vs-scholars: It takes someone with sufficient brain juice to understand the complexity of today's geopolitical situation and to fully utilize the high-tech military assets we have. I for one will be very worried if the senior leadership in the SAF consists of only belligerent, old-school minded gunghos.
Unfortunately, the ONE SAF vision seemed to be overfocused on the "O" part. I hope that the next CDF could better focus on the "N" and "E" parts to make SAF a better working environment for all ... hopefully,
Originally posted by insidestory:Because they are smaller in size in the grand scheme of SAF, making army the most influential service in the SAF.
BG Ng Chee Kern, current CAF was widely gossiped to be the next CDF, but he lost to Mg Neo.
In any case, there has been one CDF who didn't come from Army, LG Bey Soo Kiang. Besides him all the rest are from army.
Navy has fared the worst, producing ZERO CDF haha.
but the navy has produced two current cabinet ministers... including a DPM.
Originally posted by sir_peanuts:
but the navy has produced two current cabinet ministers... including a DPM.
army produced four ministers, including PM.
Originally posted by icyboiz:what's so cool, their combat skills was never really been put to used at all.
look it in another way, train for nothing but money and rank.
beats the real purpose.
You're just jealous cos you have and will amount to nothing in this wretched life of yours.
You're obviously a dumb farmer. Ahh just fuck off and die what a hopeless loser.
Originally posted by Itedino:
Indeed. CDF is just a puppet. He listen to the Minister of defence- Lao Teo. U see. Always got overseas general come. Lao Teo always go and entertain one. The CDF is just like a passer by. Help to entertain them only.
Btw, why got so many badges? SAF din even fight in war before. They just want to make the uniform look nice only. But to me it just a pile of useless badges. If u are US Marines 4 star general. I think u dun even look upon our generals in Singapore. China same too.
You obviously know nothing but are trying hard to believe and convince yourself that you're smarter than a plant when you're not.
Unless a foreign defence minister comes to Singapore, DPM does not meet him.
Military meets military. Civilian meets civilian. Meetings are determined by rank. Perm sec will not be sent to meet minister from overseas.
You're just jealous cos you have and will amount to nothing in this wretched life of yours.
And from the dumb shit you spouted above, you're obviously a dumb farmer like the other farmer here. Ahh just fuck off and die what a hopeless loser.
Originally posted by insidestory:guards = infantry. there is no difference at all. anyone who has served NS will know that. its only people who has yet to enlist who don't know.
Wah.. if you said this in front of guardsmen, I think they are not going to be thrilled... heeheehee....
Originally posted by insidestory:You obviously know nothing but are trying hard to believe and convince yourself that you're smarter than a plant when you're not.
Unless a foreign defence minister comes to Singapore, DPM does not meet him.
Military meets military. Civilian meets civilian. Meetings are determined by rank. Perm sec will not be sent to meet minister from overseas.
You're just jealous cos you have and will amount to nothing in this wretched life of yours.
And from the dumb shit you spouted above, you're obviously a dumb farmer like the other farmer here. Ahh just fuck off and die what a hopeless loser.
actually, when oversea general comes to Singapore, they are normally at the invitation of someone from SAF with the same appointment. For example, the Chief of Army from MAF comes to Singapore at the invitation of our COA, etc... However, beside meeting our COA, he may also pay a courtesy call to someone with a higher rank... like CDF or the Minister... but the main person who is going to entertain him is the COA.
Originally posted by insidestory:Because they are smaller in size in the grand scheme of SAF, making army the most influential service in the SAF.
BG Ng Chee Kern, current CAF was widely gossiped to be the next CDF, but he lost to Mg Neo.
In any case, there has been one CDF who didn't come from Army, LG Bey Soo Kiang. Besides him all the rest are from army.
Navy has fared the worst, producing ZERO CDF haha.
FYI, Ng Chee Khern was a MG when he was serving his duty as CAF, and it is highly possible that the reason why he wasnt posted to become the next CDF was because his family would be too powerful in that sense, because his younger brother Ng Chee Meng is the current CAF and his other brother is also a general in the Navy.
Originally posted by Itedino:
Indeed. CDF is just a puppet. He listen to the Minister of defence- Lao Teo. U see. Always got overseas general come. Lao Teo always go and entertain one. The CDF is just like a passer by. Help to entertain them only.
Btw, why got so many badges? SAF din even fight in war before. They just want to make the uniform look nice only. But to me it just a pile of useless badges. If u are US Marines 4 star general. I think u dun even look upon our generals in Singapore. China same too.
Actually 90% of the badges is not given by SAF. They are given by military from other countries... This has becomes the unwritten rules for militaries all over the world.
Regarding your comment about how US 4 star general thinks about SAF, you'll be surprised to hear that they actually think quite highly about SAF. (Actually, I'm quite surprised myself) When I was schooling in US, one of my dorm mates whose father is now a US 4 star general ever told me that he has done quite a few joint exercises with SAF before and he think we are quite solid even though we are never in combat before... so he has a lot of respect with them... He is a straight talking person, so I think he mean what he said... Anyway, I'm just a nobody, so he does not need to say something if he doesn't mean it...
Originally posted by insidestory:Because they are smaller in size in the grand scheme of SAF, making army the most influential service in the SAF.
BG Ng Chee Kern, current CAF was widely gossiped to be the next CDF, but he lost to Mg Neo.
In any case, there has been one CDF who didn't come from Army, LG Bey Soo Kiang. Besides him all the rest are from army.
Navy has fared the worst, producing ZERO CDF haha.
I often heard exercises integrating between Army and Air Forces, but I have never heard of anything between Army and Navy or Air Forces and Navy... I guess from this sense, it's difficult to groom a CDF from the Navy... as they often train and fight standalone (from Singapore's context).
Originally posted by Leewkb:I often heard exercises integrating between Army and Air Forces, but I have never heard of anything between Army and Navy or Air Forces and Navy... I guess from this sense, it's difficult to groom a CDF from the Navy... as they often train and fight standalone (from Singapore's context).
Joint exercise is not the barometer from which they determine who gets to be CDF and even if so, it is not even scarcely the most important.
Originally posted by Leewkb:Wah.. if you said this in front of guardsmen, I think they are not going to be thrilled... heeheehee....
Yeah too bad. It is well-known among anyone who's been through NS even for a few months in a combat unit, not need to be regular. Btw the three combat formations are only Infantry, Guards and Commando.
Other than the slightly higher standards in IPPT in guards, there is no difference at all in missions and ops between the two.
In fact, i have an hilarious anecdote that paints this, but for the safety of our defence capabilies against the enemies, I better not say it.
Originally posted by stellazio:FYI, Ng Chee Khern was a MG when he was serving his duty as CAF, and it is highly possible that the reason why he wasnt posted to become the next CDF was because his family would be too powerful in that sense, because his younger brother Ng Chee Meng is the current CAF and his other brother is also a general in the Navy.
Your speculation is wrong, according to people in the system. And anyway, based on what you said, I can more or less know that it's your own speculation not based on any inference from sound knowledge.
Anyway, make no mistake. In Singapore, when someone is worthy of a place, there is no such reason as 'for fear of too powerful family' as to stop him from ascending. It would be a reason attributive to none other than himself and the level of trust he can inspire in the system. In this system, I've seen unworthy people benefit like a number of duds getting their star so the system can make a 'point', but so far, no worthy person has been denied of fruits.
I have nothing against Ng Chee Khern really, though I have never heard him speak in person, only heard of him.
Its his brother in the air force that almost everyone I know who knows him says is a total idiot. And no, intelligence is NOT equal among siblings.