Unjust: Abuse of Military Rank & Authority
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The thought that crossed my mind was that for all you know, it's how you present yourself that is the problem, be it intentionally or not.
While it is true that you can never really get everyone to love you, it is truly impossible for every single mother's son to hate you so long as you take the effort to be a humble, honest and hardworking soldier. And if that really is the case, then you really should sit down and ask yourself: 'Have I been doing my best to present myself well?'
After all, in your very first post, you had presented yourself in a bad light to everyone here, especially with this line:
They primarily (90%) consists of secondary school dropouts, ITE students, NITEC students, jailbirds, boys home members etc... naturall their highest education do not exceed ITE
You put yourself in a very bad light in the virtual world by writing this sort of thing. You should start wondering as to wonder whether this is how you present yourself in the real world. If this is true, then you're really the cause of your own problems. No kidding.
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Originally posted by fighterboi:
I from start of BMT already fixed my mind i want to keng from pes B. Managed to get OOT and now enjoying life as a pes B sai gang warrior. BMT my bunk mates always scold me chao keng and even my sect comms know that i keng. But now, while the rest of them are in unit doing chiong sua or working their asses off, I everyday go office and use the time to self-study. Everyday book in 0930 then shiok shiok 1730 fall out or if nothing to do sometimes as early as 1130 while the rest of my BMT mates kenna confine and shit. I OOT from BMT becuz of attendence, not medical. Just keep taking Status and MCs and keep seeing the MO. Then come my vocation training I OOC for some stupid reason which guaruntees me at least another 6 months of stay-out. The earlier you start, the easier it is.
If you want to get out of the hell hole, please go for it all the way. Don't try then give up. And don't bother what other people think. In the end, once you get out of it, you will have the last laugh, not them. Know how to play the system. But make sure you don't get caught. Also, always try to help the people around you. Keng from combat duty, but never keng from personal responsibility. Keng to get out the hell hole, but do not shirk away from what needs to be done. Do this and you'll find that some people may still be willing to accept you. (Eg: I OOT from bmt that time, area cleaning i still do my share. Whenever i overhear info from office i pass on to my bunk mates. I'm always doing something to help ppl be it the CQMS, COS or sect comms and even when i'm not helping them, i wait outside the office in case they need help instead of going bunk to sleep. When ever my platoon gets punished because of sloppy marching or area cleaning, i knock it down with them even though i don't need to because whatever it is, we are still a platoon.)
Such a behavior depends on the regulars around u. If u kanna really fucked up regulars, ur life will be super fucked up so u should consider urself lucky and not clever to manage to keng this way.
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I think TS was mentioning his own education level because of the way most guys treat JC guys in NS.
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Originally posted by fighterboi:
I from start of BMT already fixed my mind i want to keng from pes B. Managed to get OOT and now enjoying life as a pes B sai gang warrior. BMT my bunk mates always scold me chao keng and even my sect comms know that i keng. But now, while the rest of them are in unit doing chiong sua or working their asses off, I everyday go office and use the time to self-study. Everyday book in 0930 then shiok shiok 1730 fall out or if nothing to do sometimes as early as 1130 while the rest of my BMT mates kenna confine and shit. I OOT from BMT becuz of attendence, not medical. Just keep taking Status and MCs and keep seeing the MO. Then come my vocation training I OOC for some stupid reason which guaruntees me at least another 6 months of stay-out. The earlier you start, the easier it is.
If you want to get out of the hell hole, please go for it all the way. Don't try then give up. And don't bother what other people think. In the end, once you get out of it, you will have the last laugh, not them. Know how to play the system. But make sure you don't get caught. Also, always try to help the people around you. Keng from combat duty, but never keng from personal responsibility. Keng to get out the hell hole, but do not shirk away from what needs to be done. Do this and you'll find that some people may still be willing to accept you. (Eg: I OOT from bmt that time, area cleaning i still do my share. Whenever i overhear info from office i pass on to my bunk mates. I'm always doing something to help ppl be it the CQMS, COS or sect comms and even when i'm not helping them, i wait outside the office in case they need help instead of going bunk to sleep. When ever my platoon gets punished because of sloppy marching or area cleaning, i knock it down with them even though i don't need to because whatever it is, we are still a platoon.)
Got so easy to take mc from MO meh? -
To start off, I have not served NS, currently waiting for enlistment so I would not touch on the NS stuff much but mainly the other things like your condition. I am a nurse anw, not trained in the mental department but I do know some stuff on depression etc.
Things have been really hard for you. It is not easy to maintain good social relations with your bunk mates, superiors, at the same time juggling your medic and unit duties, on top of your physiotherapy sessions.
To what I understand, it seems like you have been going through these for some time and it has come to the point that you cannot take it anymore and needs something to be done. Need, not want. It is good that you let it all out and thus I can help you better.
Coming from different backgrounds, I can understand the social gaps between you and your bunk mates. It is not easy but being friendly, courteous and humble will help. I am not saying you are not. They might think you are "chao-keng-ing" but if you know yourself that you are not, let them think so and concentrate on other pressing issues, like your health.
It is good that you are going to see a psychiatrist. You might want to consider seeing a counsellor too or you can try SAF counsellors or the hotline, I don't know anything about them but you can try. Or you can try addressing your issues following up the ranks like what the other forumers are saying, which I'm not sure of either. Or you can just let out your feelings to a close friend that you have.
Both your health and your duties are important but health is always at utmost importance. You are excused from certain duties for a reason and by right no one has the authority to ask you to do something that you are excused from. Eg, no running and you are asked to run. It might just worsen your condition. I think you have back problems and it can get bad if worsen. Do your assigned duties as per normal but if really cannot do something due to pain or your injury, kindly inform your in-charge. If he forces you to, well, back to the informing accordingly up the ranks.
Continue with your physiotherapy, it should help and your psychiatric appointments. There is a way to solve this. It is messy yes but there's always a way. Don't think about ending your life. It is not worth it. You are angry and frustrated and might lose it anytime but you are still sensible enough to post here and seek help. That is a good sign.
It seems like you might be ORD-ing soon so bear with it for now and continue with your treatments. I know most guys will say "grow up, suck thumb", but bear with it as much as you can and when you really can't, well that's what you are doing seeking help. Different individuals have different stress capacities and it one thing might affect another differently. You mentioned seeing deaths in your camp. Yes this might also be another factor that is adding on to your stress. Seeing death on a regular basis is not a nice sight, especially in Singapore where you don't see it first-hand often. It can be rather traumatic, yet again it varies for each individual.
On the other note, the way you post your situation might have triggered others to think negatively about you. Eg. the different educational qualifications and why you told your dad about your problem. Maybe it wasn't phrased in the most perfect way but I pardoned you because I get what you are trying to say. It is good that you talked to your dad about it anyway.
I wish you all the best in your health and your NS days. Hope you get well soon and if you have anything medical-wise you want to ask, feel free to ask me and I would be glad to help. Regarding NS issues, I can't help much, sorry since I have not enlisted. Take care. =)
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TS,
If you had trouble adjusting after seeing lots of injuries or have witnessed some training deaths, you should have sought counselling at the first opportune moment.
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Originally posted by schi_zo:
Sorry this is gonna be long and i need some advice.
I am a medic and is posted to a combat unit[mono-intake]. I have an injury and it limits my ability to train and perform as a fit combatant.So I decided to take status from my MO and see a specialist. The specialist recommends physiotherapy and so i decided to try it out.
FUN FACT #1: what is a mono-intake? Recruits are directly inducted to this unit, from BMT to ORD, they are stuck in this unit for their 2 years. So what makes them so special? They primarily (90%) consists of secondary school dropouts, ITE students, NITEC students, jailbirds, boys home members etc... naturall their highest education do not exceed ITE.
FUN FACT #2: I studied in jc so my journey was Tekong > SMTI > mono-intake unit
FUN FACT #3: My company has only 1 JC student as a man.(not commander)
Now, while having status and undergoing physiotherapy, this particular commander which happens to my platoon sergeant (REGULAR 2SG ITE STUDENT) happens to faithfully carry out my unit's 'belief' in -> every NSF who has any status, regardless of severity, unless it is prominently visible e.g. a broken leg/arm, is branded a CHAO KENG KIA.
So, now, even with ex light duties, heavy load, and RMJ, i was forced to participate in training, of course, while undergoing physiotherapy, doing strenous exercises and outfield defeated the purpose. Then till there was this period where i could not take the load so i really said NO to carrying at all. So what did i get in return? A threat from my beloved PS warned me that for my so called 'stunt', for the rest of my NS life, i will not be able to use my off and leave. Justifiable?
Things got bad and worse, soon i found out i had to learn a GPMG(machine gun), which the funny thing is, as a medic, you cannot even shoot your SAR... and guess who arranged it? Go figure.
It didn't stop there, i was then told to do shed duty(similar to guard duty) for my company on standby while i was still tied to medical duties, if it was weekdays i would have just did it anyway, but it was 2 freaking saturdays. Notice given to me was 2 weeks before the duty, and naturally i was pissed. I checked the standing orders and it said medics and CQMS were exempted. I went to find the guy who planned my duty(PS), and told him about it. He then said, 'don't look at the SOP, its according to battalion standard, battalion standard says you can do, and now how to change, 2 weeks already, i cannot just change like that right? what would other people think if they do your duty?' WOW he could be concerned for others and not for me? The most epic thing is, i found out from my other medic friends(other platoons and companies) in the battalion that, i was the ONLY dumb f medic doing the duty.. how FUCKED is that.
There are much more other things that he(PS) did, which are really F-ed up and im lazy to list them all down. So i couldn't take his personal abuse and vent on me, and the people in my company had personalities clashes with me as they always warned to beat me up, so i decided i really had to do something.
Things i did
1. Talked to my PC about this and all the unfair incidents to me. Luckily i was smart enough to record every detail on a notebook. In the end, he told me i was being paranoid and should just speak with my PS.
2. The old unit MO just ORDed and came this new unit MO, which apparently, has personalities contrasting to 'kind and caring.' Left with no choice i decided to consult him on the issue. I told him i wanted to see a psychiatrist or a counsellor, as i really cannot withstand the pressue --> i was rejected from being referred to PSY or counselling. I told him i cannot work with my platoon people and my PS, he just told me he could not do anything to help me. It seems he forgot a 3 bar is equivalent to CPT rank.
3. I told my parents about it and hoped they help me complain or something. My father told me to just lan lan suck thumb die die tong all the way till ORD and begins his 'last time when i was in army....' Let your son suffer like a dog. dope.
Well, in the end my OC caught wind of me trying to be referred to see a psychiatrist . How? It appears my MO thinks its a good idea to tell my OC about this. And the fucking thing is that the new MO is a NSF, why the fuck would he do something like that.
Now my life is really miserable and sometimes i think of stupid things like taking my rifle and shooting those fuckers. I really cannot take it to face those fuckers at camp, WHAT THE FUCK SHOULD I DO?? advice pls- i do not want to call the SAF hotline as it will make shit worse.
side note :
i want to thank SAF for reshaping my life, i want to thank SAF for creating a milestone in my life, i want to thank SAF for their intelligence and efficiency in posting order.
Thankful that NS made me a better person.
To those whom always preach to people, make NS a meaningful 2 years, well fuck you.
And as a medic, i have seen deaths in my camp, appearing in newspapers? no. all covered up nicely. remember a case of the NSF in LCK camp II that died in the morning after he collasped from doing chin-ups? i happen to know the MO who treated him, and oh boy....... a totally different version of the story appeared on the newspapers.
IT REALLY IS THE LOWEST SHITTY PERIOD OF MY LIFE AND I NEED ADVICE ON HOW TO GET THROUGH IT BEFORE I JUMP AND DIE.
I felt much better after typing all this... sorry and thanks if you read through my shitty english till the end.
Hi schi_zo,
I believe that the best option for you now is to call the SAF helpline for help. Calling it doesn't necessary means life in the army will be better for you, but it will be better than doing nothing at all.
Cheers.
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Originally posted by maxsee:
Ur.... fun fact #1....there is no such things as monointake personnel comprising of school dropouts, ITE students, NITEC students, jailbirds, boys home members etc....i was a diploma holder and got posted to monointake previously...get ur facts right before publishing it DUDE....
Dun think urself as a class above the rest just beocz u are a JC student...medic is already a very much relax vocation...if u were in guards unit like me last time....i think u would have jump down and commit suicide.....
Every male citizens has to go thru 2 years of national service....just live with it....if not u can alway have the choice of taking the easy way out......eg....take one hammer and ask ur friend to give a GOOD one on ur hand............before u know it.....u be out of medic profession....WIMP.....
Why all the outcry at TS just because he voiced out something that everyone knows?
MOno intake comprises of people that are normally of ITE education and below no? No one can deny. If can, pls state here and fight your case. Would love to see how it flies.
Second mono intake has a small minority of poly students right?? They put mostly ITE people there, or school dropouts but occasionally a few poly grads are suay enough to end up there.
Third, among the different groups of people, mono intake has the fewest JC grads. The TS's own coy only one other JC kid in mono.That is a fact! I don't know why so many of you are in denial. Put aside your ego and recognise the facts that are in place in front of you, in front of the whole of SG, and in place since SAF started.
What a bunch of egotistical fuckwits. now i know why so many of you are jealous of elites hahaha.
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Originally posted by dkcx:
How long more till u ORD?
SAF promotion is often by seniority esp the junior commanders. U don't have to have any leadership etc to get 2SG. As long as u sign on, u will surely get it.
As mentioned, if talking to ur PS and OC etc won't work, talk to them le then move on to ur S1/CO etc. If u have already mentioned ur problem to ur OC and he can't help, u can logically go to ur CO without skipping chain of command.
If u have problems seeing ur OC etc, SAF hotline might be the only way out for u. Yes it will bring u more trouble but its the only way to highlight ur problem to ppl who can intervene in ur unit affairs. After a few calls, they normally are forced to do something. If u are already targetted by them all, i don't see how things can get worse if u choose to call.
If they are forcing u to do things, i don't see why u should not report. Since they are already treating u like hell, what more can and will they do? Just report everything and at most everyone die together better than u suffer alone.
When ur commanders wanna make hell for u, they can do it in everyway that is allowable. Whether or not there is someone else in the unit who suffers the same faith is not important. As long as they can do it, they will. Comparing urself with the other 22 medics will not help u in anyway.
Combat medic isn't slack but neither is it the most xiong vocation out there.
If u can't take it, just go see a psychiatrist on ur own if u really think it would help if u MO is not willing to help. Generally i would still say the MO didn't do anything wrong but how ur OC wants to use the information that is up to him to decide since the MO is not ur direct superior and has little say in how u should be handled.
2SG is a very low rank for specialist..consider both 2SG and 3SG free gifts to those who sign on, its like given out like free gift lah..but SAF promotion by seniority (i can see you mean age when you say seniority), no. Its by performance and potential. I have seen countless CMI specialists who get rejected for PP2 and asked to fuck off in their 30s, cannot make WO. And have seen lots of farmer officers, still LTA at 30..loser man..for a regular officer to be the same rank as a 19 yr old NSF..there are also quite a lot of those ..CPT in their mid 30s..go and die better.
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Originally posted by insidestory:
Why all the outcry at TS just because he voiced out something that everyone knows?
MOno intake comprises of people that are normally of ITE education and below no? No one can deny. If can, pls state here and fight your case. Would love to see how it flies.
Second mono intake has a small minority of poly students right?? They put mostly ITE people there, or school dropouts but occasionally a few poly grads are suay enough to end up there.
Third, among the different groups of people, mono intake has the fewest JC grads. The TS's own coy only one other JC kid in mono.That is a fact! I don't know why so many of you are in denial. Put aside your ego and recognise the facts that are in place in front of you, in front of the whole of SG, and in place since SAF started.
What a bunch of egotistical fuckwits. now i know why so many of you are jealous of elites hahaha.
Armour has plenty of JC or poly graduates coming in as mono intake nt that is so far, the only formation I knew got tertiary educated soldiers.
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Originally posted by insidestory:
2SG is a very low rank for specialist..consider both 2SG and 3SG free gifts to those who sign on, its like given out like free gift lah..but SAF promotion by seniority (i can see you mean age when you say seniority), no. Its by performance and potential. I have seen countless CMI specialists who get rejected for PP2 and asked to fuck off in their 30s, cannot make WO. And have seen lots of farmer officers, still LTA at 30..loser man..for a regular officer to be the same rank as a 19 yr old NSF..there are also quite a lot of those ..CPT in their mid 30s..go and die better.
So tell us your achievements in the army -
start sweeping the floor everynight at 12am with 2 brooms right infront of your sergeants bunk... when they come and confront you, laugh sinisterically at them and then continue sweeping, ignore their comments at all, and only when they come and shake you then you fake like the "ghost" have left you and you drop the broom and be stunned like asking what the fuck just happened??
do this one or twice then they send you to psychiarist then you down grade and for the rest of your life you are free..
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Originally posted by insidestory:
2SG is a very low rank for specialist..consider both 2SG and 3SG free gifts to those who sign on, its like given out like free gift lah..but SAF promotion by seniority (i can see you mean age when you say seniority), no. Its by performance and potential. I have seen countless CMI specialists who get rejected for PP2 and asked to fuck off in their 30s, cannot make WO. And have seen lots of farmer officers, still LTA at 30..loser man..for a regular officer to be the same rank as a 19 yr old NSF..there are also quite a lot of those ..CPT in their mid 30s..go and die better.
Junior specialist ranks are all base on age. A person can easily get to 1SG or even SSG base on seniority and not performance. Since its only a 2SG, he does not need to perform well to get his 1SG.
Regardless, in the army everyone has to follow rank whether u like it or not and thats a plain fact.
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my friend is in mono intake too (3SIR). being a BTC is not really their choice, because they are really not that smart. but dont look down on them. SOME of them make very good friends and some of them are a bit psychotic. But they are quite okay. As long as you don't insult them, look down on them, talk to them, they are quite ok. but note that they are very sensitive people (more sensitive than normal), so be careful when talking to them.
They are quite simple minded, and their language is limited so no need to think too hard to understand them.... LOL
If they are gangsters, then ask them what gang they are in, what is their rank and job? Ask them what their tattoo represent, it is very interesting. Most of them have family issues, so they are quite pitiful.
Jailbird? <- actually those who have committed crimes are not usually recruited in the army.
NS is just a redundant waste of time. If you are not well, get yourself a medical status. Show it to your PC or PS, it is important. Just heck care. Throw the responsibility back to the high rank. These are my medical problem, I am unwell, tell me what to, you want me to do this and do that, anything goes wrong, you take the blame. Tell the SGT it is your job to arrange EVERYTHING. No need to think so much you are just a man.
And I can see that you are breaking the integrity of the team, hence you are disliked by the rest.
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Originally posted by dkcx:
Junior specialist ranks are all base on age. A person can easily get to 1SG or even SSG base on seniority and not performance. Since its only a 2SG, he does not need to perform well to get his 1SG.
Regardless, in the army everyone has to follow rank whether u like it or not and thats a plain fact.
Serious? i thought only 3SG and 2SG are free gifts..so 1SG is also free gift..I didn't think so because i know at least 2 people who sign on the poly scheme, after 4 years or so they left the force as only 2SG! what about PP2? From what I know, only good specialists get PP2.
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Originally posted by will4:
Armour has plenty of JC or poly graduates coming in as mono intake nt that is so far, the only formation I knew got tertiary educated soldiers.
must be tough for them, but at least they have each other and can be friends, instead of a whole bunch of gangster bullying and ganging up on TS..that said, are they the majority in the armour mono intake(more or less than 50% of the mono intake)?
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Originally posted by fireng:
So tell us your achievements in the armysure. sure. how about i'm the same rank as these 29 year old LTA regulars even though i'm not a regular.
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Since u so tired of the unit. Just request to change unit.
You tell your CO that you cannot take it. You want to have a new surrounding. The chances of being a clerk in your unit HQ till you ORD is very high .
1st) The CO wun let you change to other units cos it reflect on hisself.
2nd) He will try to change your mind and stay but my dear bro. Just go to the SAF hotline or the couseller uncle. They wield the power to help you out of your shitty situation.
Rest assured, your CO will give in to you cos he also dun want you get him into trouble. Look, he is also trying to make his life simple and earn a living.
Just go and downgrade yourself to the MO(Since you think the MO is a wannabe then approach a Specialist in the hospital from NUH,CGH or SGH) Once the Report from the specialist is submitted, the MO will lan lan suck thumb obliged to you.
I admitted the MO's standard is very low. I think SAF should put a workshop or what.
Medical corp need some reforms. Like putting someone experience before every week to guide the new MOs'.However, this will caused some of your units personnel to look upon u as chao keng kia. It is unavoidable cos you cannot satisfied everyone. Remenber you are in the zoo where there is tiger, lion and monkeys around. BUT you will have new friends in HQ like S1 S2 S3, driver and FEMALE CLERK. Everyday office hours. Wah nice. lolz. No more guard duties. They will care and concern for you. Askyou to go lunch everyday. Sometime drink coffee with your CO. wahhaha.
Good luck, i am sure my advice will help to tide your crisis.
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the ranking is automatic one by seniority. SAF is a demerit system. you do everything ok you get promoted, you screw up you get your rank on hold or demoted. you want fast track, go for overseas deployment. And the promotion also depends on the officer.
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Originally posted by dkcx:
Junior specialist ranks are all base on age. A person can easily get to 1SG or even SSG base on seniority and not performance. Since its only a 2SG, he does not need to perform well to get his 1SG.
Regardless, in the army everyone has to follow rank whether u like it or not and thats a plain fact.
Dun say rank, even my master sergent i also ask him to work. hwaahaha. Sir also no different, i give him scolding. My regulars friends also, 2WO also scold. whahahaha. I saw with my own eye. Hahah. Huh ya, one family ma. Work together and go mass together at night. SHOICK> -
Originally posted by insidestory:
must be tough for them, but at least they have each other and can be friends, instead of a whole bunch of gangster bullying and ganging up on TS..that said, are they the majority in the armour mono intake(more or less than 50% of the mono intake)?
You wanna know why, I guess he done something wrong which irrated them. My advice, simply bo chap and stay with one or two friend.It is like that. Very soon, they get tired and will focus on the next superstar. New NSF will come in. Changes is very vibrant in SAF. Manpower movement is very regular. YOu see your PS now, 3 month later dunno go where.
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1) u tink u are better than everyone cos u study jc, and should get special treatment
2) ur dad is right, go suck thumb, or go see outside doctor
3) u are weak, kpkb so easily
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Originally posted by Lokey:
the ranking is automatic one by seniority. SAF is a demerit system. you do everything ok you get promoted, you screw up you get your rank on hold or demoted. you want fast track, go for overseas deployment. And the promotion also depends on the officer.
It is only a demerit system in the junior ranks like what someone said earlier.
3SG and 2SG are almost always free gifts. There are a lot of people who do not make WO. It is not a demerit system from SSG onwards.
There are a lot of 29 year old LTA walking about. Yet I already know at least two 27 year old MAJ (they are SAFOS). So no, its certainly not a demerit system in the officer corp.
Among the non scholars, there are those who get MAJ at 30 (normally is ATA holders), yet there are those that get it at 35.
There are people who get priority during ranking exercise because due to age, they are already too old for their rank and badly needs to be bumped up, and they do get bumped up the ranking over someone who is clearly more capable but far younger but this only happen in very extreme differences of age and not age difference between one to two years. Honestly, when they reach this stage, it means they are already quite far behind the average for their age group. So I'd call it a pity priority and not so much demerit. They would be the 29, 30 year old LTA i was talking about above.
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Originally posted by will4:
Armour has plenty of JC or poly graduates coming in as mono intake nt that is so far, the only formation I knew got tertiary educated soldiers.
Yep, the JC and poly grads join the mono-intakes in armour after tekong.. and yea there's quite a number of these people in armour.
I was from poly, and was posted to armour after bmt in tekong.. in my platoon there were about 6 or 7 poly people.
actually it all depends on how your personality is in camp.. if you have a stuck up attitude, of course the mono-intake guys will treat you differently.. however if you try to bond with them, you'll find that they aren't much different from you.
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To those who had a fun time blasting at TS:
Clearly the TS is in distress, and yet you bastards here can do is to fire at TS with inflammatory and unconstructive remarks (ie. wimp, loser, pussy) to make him feel worse. That's extremely mean, and it speaks volume about how unsympathetic and loser-ish you're as a person, really. Come on, who are you to comment on how resilient he is, when you didn't even go through that crap he's going through? Even if you did, congratulations for being such a good thumb-sucker, but that doesn't put you on some higher moral grounds to lambast at others. TS didn't even say that because he is from JC, therefore he deserves better treatment than the others. He was merely stating facts, that he's from JC and the others aren't. You drew your own screwed-up conclusions (TS is from JC, hence he's proud, arrogant, etc) . Are you all envious that you can't enter JC in the first place?
