National Service OR National Slavery ?
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Think of it as a pure blooded Singaporean male tradition to serve the nation,whether the outcome be good or bad you would still benefit in the character building process as a human being.A gift from the SAF that will stay with you forever even after you have migrated.So shut the F-up and put on that green uniform!!!
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Think of it as a pure blooded Singaporean male tradition to serve the nation,whether the outcome be good or bad you would still benefit in the character building process as a human being.A gift from the SAF that will stay with you forever even after you have migrated.So shut the F-up and put on that green uniform!!!
the kid is just trying to be fashionable to "Keng" as I said earlier "Keng" is not Cool. I think is just a matter of directing young kids to be "Cool"....Looks like SAF is not doing enough positive advertisement for Young Kids..... -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
the kid is just trying to be fashionable to "Keng" as I said earlier "Keng" is not Cool. I think is just a matter of directing young kids to be "Cool"....Looks like SAF is not doing enough positive advertisement for Young Kids.....
Commanders in the SAF must lead by example.....this message has been played over and over since my time but unfortunately there is also the bad tradition of an 'Arrow King' which is never a healthy thing for morale.To me an Arrow King is none other than a lazy or a bully who is not fit to choose soldiering as a career. -
Originally posted by DarkMatter:
I was just like you when I just enlist ed into BMT. Being Fat and in obese batch makes my pride even lower. during my pre-enlistment days, I've post lots of threads here looking for different ways to get out of NS or keng if I have to do it. Was exactly in a spot like TS where I was flamed by everybody here, with the familar faces I saw in this thread.
It will be good if those who don't know about it to visit this thread:
http://sgforums.com/forums/12/topics/202249
However, despite my efforts, I was awards with a PES BP status, which I could just get a B. But I ate and ate through the 2 monthes window period before my enlistment date, instead of doing meaningful things which could help me when I enlist. First few weeks were tough. And I mean super tough. I am mild obese weighing at 80kg. I could not do more than 20 situps, zero fighter, and worst of all, bobo shooter, + diver. I was always bottom on the list and always kena arrow to do the most shit. All this because of my mindcept of "Kenging". I thought kenging will help me to pass my ns days with a breeze, however, it does the opposite. I was in living hell during my recruit days.
One fine day, I finally cracked. I was sent to see a phychologist. After the session, my CSM, encik Lim invite me to have a talk in his office. I was enlighten and my life change. It seemed that I've been brain washed, but I was determined to do it. I want to be a good soldier and help anybody whom is in my state before. I push myself 200% and manage to becaome PES B which landed me in OCS from good feedbacks from PC, and PS.
I become an officer with pride and was posted by to Tekong. It was just like yesterday that I have seen myself change so much after national service. I thank my encik.
*applauds*
Yeah, I remember blasting you three years ago, DarkMatter. And this was one of the things I said:
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You're going to be in the army; live with it. Finding ways and means to weasel your way out of the training and regimentation [is not the way to go]. Otherwise, I can tell you that you will always have a negative view of the army, and the Pygmalion Effect will come into play.
'What is the Pygmalion Effect?' you may ask. It is when something bad happens because you think it will happen. Since you keep thinking that you should try to weasel your way out of the army, you will never have a good army experience.************************
To Kei 1.618: What I said three years ago still holds true now. I predicted that DarkMatter would encounter the Pygmalion Effect , and that was exactly what that he went through. He had a terrible army experience precisely because he himself was creating the conditions to make it terrible through keng-ing.
Whatever the case, I'm glad to see that DarkMatter finally learnt one of life's most important lessons, even if he learnt it the hard way. Kei, you can choose to learn the easy way from reading his experience, or the hard way like how he did.
Like I said, it doesn't affect me either way. But it affects you.
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Gentlemen, a little empathy, if you please.
As with all pre-enlistees, what we have here is someone who's viewing NS with some trepidation and nervous anticipation, and understandably so. It's all a big unknown for him, and surely we can all recall the time when not knowing what to expect created a certain amount of angst for us?
That said, what's he done with this anticipation? Well, there are two things in this world, namely results and excuses. The queries about kenging make it clear that the lad's fear of failure has already gotten him started on the excuse-making, which he has chosen in favour of a more mature and proactive approach of seeking ways of producing results. The energy he's put into defending the indefensible and rejecting the clearly commensense is quite impressive if you take it from a Freudian perspective.
It's rather apt that "Who Dares Wins" is a phrase associated with matters military. This lad has clearly demonstrated that he doesn't dare, and the only logical conclusion we can therefore reach is that he is a loser.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Gentlemen, a little empathy, if you please.
As with all pre-enlistees, what we have here is someone who's viewing NS with some trepidation and nervous anticipation, and understandably so. It's all a big unknown for him, and surely we can all recall the time when not knowing what to expect created a certain amount of angst for us?
That said, what's he done with this anticipation? Well, there are two things in this world, namely results and excuses. The queries about kenging make it clear that the lad's fear of failure has already gotten him started on the excuse-making, which he has chosen in favour of a more mature and proactive approach of seeking ways of producing results. The energy he's put into defending the indefensible and rejecting the clearly commensense is quite impressive if you take it from a Freudian perspective.
It's rather apt that "Who Dares Wins" is a phrase associated with matters military. This lad has clearly demonstrated that he doesn't dare, and the only logical conclusion we can therefore reach is that he is a loser.
That's precisely the point.
Like I said previously, we all had our pre-enlistment anxieties, myself included. I can understand his anxieties, for that was what I went through myself.
The thing is, instead of doing productive things like asking others for pointers on army life and steeling himself for whatever comes, he's thinking about how to chao keng.
It's really not his anxiety that's the issue, but his response to it.
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I would say....just go with the flow. If you don't stand out, do your part, get no-one into trouble with you, then you'll have an uneventful NS. Of course because you don't stand out, you are likely to become a man instead of a spec or officer.
I'm not someone who kenged throughout NS, but despite this I was whacked up down left right centre in BMT. But I survived.
I wasn't a bobo-shooter, diver or what. But because my thought process seems a little slower, I used to be a target for all kinds of screwing and push-ups etc etc. Moreover, I'm not fit at all, being underweight seriously meant that route marches nearly killed me. And I mean it. When I completed the 24 click march, I overheated and reported sick with a 40 deg fever the very next morning.
But put it this way. If people know you put in the effort to pull your weight, people will help you. I survived my 24 click chiefly bcos some of my mates actually lifted my field-pack for the last 4 click and I managed to finish everything with everyone else. A keng attitude will simply see my drop-out, and nothing else. Instead I got to see that working your way hard pays in the form of respect.
Whenever there were stuff like running around with gears, I was invariably last and that obviously meant punishments in the form of push-ups again. Still, I took it in stride and just did it in full view of everyone. No one blames you for being less than fit, but if you try to keng, you're not giving yourself a chance to grow.
I failed my IPPT at the end of BMT, but that appears because I was pushed so hard by my sgt who insisted on working me out (my sec mates and him did it too to support me), that my standing broad jump could only manage 178 due to fatigue. When I went to my new unit and did my IPPT again, my standing broad jump suddenly increased to 234 without any training. My crazy extra working outs had paid dividends at last.
I knew my sgt didn't like me at the beginning, because he thought I would crack under all the "abusings" and keng. But I managed to prove him wrong. In fact, the night before, we had a talk and he ended with "I'll miss you".
I never thought I would miss my BMT, believing it would be hell and nothing else. But the truth was that you won't be able to find such camaraderie so easily outside. Some of my best friends now were those I made contact with in BMT. And certainly I left Tekong with positive feelings, rather than negative ones. Again, like I said, pulling my weight, even if it required help, with all my might, paid off.
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Originally posted by fudgester:It's really not his anxiety that's the issue, but his response to it.
Well fudge, some guys stand up and be counted, others run. It takes all sorts and there's not a whole lot we can do about that, is there? Just deal with the people who want to achieve something and avoid wasting time on the deadbeats who are too scared to even try.
You can lead a horse to water and it may or may not drink. You can jump up and down on the horse's head and it still may not drink. That's when you drag it ou to the back paddock, put a bullet in it to put it out of its misery and call it performance management.
If this kid's going to fight tooth and nail and defend his right to drop out, I'd say you're wasting your time trying to set him straight. If he's hoping for the next big thing in his life and doesn't realise how his attitude dooms him to failure, what difference does it make to you in twenty years' time when he's scratching his head wondering why his life's a train wreck, at the same time still insisting that everyone else is wrong? Don't know about you, but I'd be too busy taking on my next challenge to give it any thought.
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i wonder what is 1.618
/me lub chin
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Well fudge, some guys stand up and be counted, others run. It takes all sorts and there's not a whole lot we can do about that, is there? Just deal with the people who want to achieve something and avoid wasting time on the deadbeats who are too scared to even try.
You can lead a horse to water and it may or may not drink. You can jump up and down on the horse's head and it still may not drink. That's when you drag it ou to the back paddock, put a bullet in it to put it out of its misery and call it performance management.
If this kid's going to fight tooth and nail and defend his right to drop out, I'd say you're wasting your time trying to set him straight. If he's hoping for the next big thing in his life and doesn't realise how his attitude dooms him to failure, what difference does it make to you in twenty years' time when he's scratching his head wondering why his life's a train wreck, at the same time still insisting that everyone else is wrong? Don't know about you, but I'd be too busy taking on my next challenge to give it any thought.
Hmmm.... true, true....
Ah well.... not as though I'm too bothered about what happens to him. Some choose to learn things the easy way, and others choose to learn things the hard way. Some choose to knock a wall down with explosives, others choose to smash their heads against it.
But I get to laugh when they choose the latter, rite?
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Originally posted by kopiosatu:
i wonder what is 1.618
/me lub chin
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Well, he surely is an irrational number.
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Originally posted by fudgester:But I get to laugh when they choose the latter, rite?
By then I'd wager that you'd have things more deserving of your time and attention.
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Originally posted by fudgester:
*applauds*
Yeah, I remember blasting you three years ago, DarkMatter. And this was one of the things I said:
********************
You're going to be in the army; live with it. Finding ways and means to weasel your way out of the training and regimentation [is not the way to go]. Otherwise, I can tell you that you will always have a negative view of the army, and the Pygmalion Effect will come into play.
'What is the Pygmalion Effect?' you may ask. It is when something bad happens because you think it will happen. Since you keep thinking that you should try to weasel your way out of the army, you will never have a good army experience.************************
To Kei 1.618: What I said three years ago still holds true now. I predicted that DarkMatter would encounter the Pygmalion Effect , and that was exactly what that he went through. He had a terrible army experience precisely because he himself was creating the conditions to make it terrible through keng-ing.
Whatever the case, I'm glad to see that DarkMatter finally learnt one of life's most important lessons, even if he learnt it the hard way. Kei, you can choose to learn the easy way from reading his experience, or the hard way like how he did.
Like I said, it doesn't affect me either way. But it affects you.
Oh yes~ I remember it. Beleive it or not, I do not care much of these when I was posting the questions. My main objective that time was " What is the easiest method to get out of Army. If not, How to downgrade myself to get an easy life?"But as you predicted, non-answered my question. and I was bombarded for being naive, know nothing about army, and a wuss. But words are just words, it didnt really affect me much , only that I came to find out that I have to face my fears of army eventually.
To Kei:
It is hard for you to change your "mindcept" and "attitude" by reading what people has post to you. Reading words really has much less impact than being told, or shout at directly. To be frank, sorry to some of the genuine bros here like fudgester who really tried to help me, and I ignore their efforts, and even find them sort of autocratic, mean and irritating as they did not speak to what I want to hear.
I think you have the same mindcept as I have previously. And Keng is really common in the army. I did also keng sometimes to relax myself from the harsh environment by surfing the net, canteen break, even a short nap, all OTOT. Thats what you mean as it is common for everybody to "Keng" in this manner.
However, there is another different definiation of "Keng" which is to delibrately act as if you are suffering from an aliment/medical condition which does not exist that will help u avoid certain streneous activities. This is a chargeable offense, and I have seen my soldiers being charged for mailingering. It ruins your Future.
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Dude its only 2 years at minimum pay, just get it over with and get on with living your life....no point in thinking how to keng. The whole damn army kengs....
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Hmm, I not sure about the blog that TS mentioned. I read it,and i felt that no doubt he did mentioned that he kenged somewhere here and there. He finished his NS with a positive attitude. Like all other combat vocations, a recee (add in the guardsmen) is no joke. By wanting to push his memories into the internet, i doubt that his remaining posts is about how he slept in bunk while the rest of his mates are out there 'eating grass/dirt'.
What makes him stands out from the TS is that, the guy saw that if he failed his keng-ness, he just moved on and accept it. What TS seems to be toying (or rather to us) with the idea that "I want the 101 ways to keng so that I can be kengster of the year". I would admit that I have kenged my way out of certain things. But I can dare say I have never added shit to onto others and I did to my best that whatever that was thrown to me.
What is more appalling here is that TS attitude of that everyone else is doing it, so what's with the flaming. I am as right as others. Yet, TS have failed to see that the rest of us here have bore the burnt of some knnb ccb pb kengster that could even bother to lift a finger to help. Trust me, some people lived the day without knowing if his shampoo was shampoo or something else.
We mean well by telling you not to keng. Because we know the long term negative effect kenging can do to you. Sure, your keng can probably bring you two years of easy life. But can you live the long term effects of it? A combat kengster who never bothered to lift a pen for his clerical duties is working as a hardworking clerk for his NS unit now. No doubt he could keng for his next 10 ICTs, but surely he saw that kenging is not the way again.
Hence, I hope TS could drop this kenging idea, it really does do you any good. While they say NS makes you mature,but some ORD-ed kengsters still behave as if they are 18 everyday. That is the last thign we want to do. To label another ORD-ed person as idiot ... -
WOAH fun!!!
so i can go in and there is this 1 week adjustment thing... summore training gets tougher as time goes by? i tot must train up first then go in... yeah i know army u get treated like shit.. but dunno if peers will do the same.. haha sounds fun... and less tough than wat i tot..
cuz i heard from experience and post... NS sounds like hell... but i was wondering why everyone survived it.. so it might not probably be that bad as i tot.. -
Hey Itchy, there are zero-fighters (ie, o pull ups) that move on to hit 12 during BMT. Not to worry about the training, it is tough, which is what buffs you up. It is good to do some training first. But no worries if you go in weak and lousy, many others are there too.
If you come in last in your first run, dun get scared, step by step trainings are there to ensure you make the mark. Relax, go in and make the best out of it. -
If you come to realise, After the "culture shock" you will begin to realise that Ns is full of fun. To tell u the truth, everytime after I booked out, I cant wait to get back to my unit. That How I really enjoy my Ns life.
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I was a zero fighter for chin up before enlistment, but I can do 14 during my BMC......lol...
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it is true that NS is full of kengs. But it teaches u the working world and during my 2 years NS i saved up $9000 in cash. I was a corporal with $600 pay
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Originally posted by flapdoodle:
it is true that NS is full of kengs. But it teaches u the working world and during my 2 years NS i saved up $9000 in cash. I was a corporal with $600 pay
wa.. weekends u nv go out ?
i only manage to save like more than 1/4 of yours..
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Think of it as a pure blooded Singaporean male tradition to serve the nation,whether the outcome be good or bad you would still benefit in the character building process as a human being.A gift from the SAF that will stay with you forever even after you have migrated.So shut the F-up and put on that green uniform!!!
No point mentioning all the stuff about how conscription can benefit us and all, because it's still going to be forced upon most of us anyway. Its like saying how amazing pineapples are and all the benefits of it, if a person doesn't like it, he doesn't like it, despite its goodness. Anyway its just my opinion so peace.
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Originally posted by Anthiadon:
No point mentioning all the stuff about how conscription can benefit us and all, because it's still going to be forced upon most of us anyway. Its like saying how amazing pineapples are and all the benefits of it, if a person doesn't like it, he doesn't like it, despite its goodness. Anyway its just my opinion so peace.
Having a proper mentality will make ur journey better and more enjoyable. Its often ur mindset.
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i dont want go NS. how escape?
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Originally posted by Sgforum King:
i dont want go NS. how escape?
cut off ur kkj