Citizen Soldier's Responsibilities: For Family? For Country?
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Originally posted by Chunhow:
Waves and waves of enemy infantry? We are not fighting in the trenches of WW2 lah.
I will fight alongside my NS buddies I guess.
Mate, check out the size of the Indonesian military for a start.
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They are not going to activate all their might on us.. They have got super lot of islands to protect themself. Not forgetting that they got the south china sea to protect because that location is rich in natural gas reserve and many countries are eyeing on that.
We are divided by the Malacca strait. If they are any big movement in military. we will have more than sufficient time to react.
Arty power is useless due to the distance between the two countries.
Naval vessel will be easily detected if they decided to use it to do amphious assault.
Possible will be air attack, but given our country air defend n missile capability i dun think it will be a successful mission without heavy casualties to their pilot and aircraft.If u look at their defense budget.. $4.74 Billion (2008) yearly for their military size and our defense budget of $11.447 billion (FY09) yearly for our size of military force.
Which side of the force is better developed and equip?
When we talk abt the capability of a force. It include of the heartware of the soldier, amt of time take to train, qualification, the amt of $$ spend on each soldier and the equipment they are equip.
World military development in the future is moving into a small force which can perform mutiple roles and can fits to all forms of situation. Only when a military that can adjust itself to the changing situation then the battle will be won.
No longer the old time of who have the more men who will win situation. -
Originally posted by Man!x:
Mate, check out the size of the Indonesian military for a start.
I suppose their trouble would be getting those men on our shores first! No doubt of the political and social will of the Indonesian people.. when compared to ours. No doubt of the garangness of their troops either, when uh compared to me.
But to move so many hundreds of thousands of troops over to our small island could be a logistics nightmare for them, haha.
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yeah, high defense budget. but our regulars are much much higher paid than them. eats a chunk out of the budget. also, we have defense contractors to do our dirty jobs, while they do it themselves, with all those surplus manpower.
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Kill or be killed. everything else is secondary in war. Besides, its never about dying for your country. Its always about making the other bugger die for his country.
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X2.
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Even if we really put up a tough fight.. Singapore is so small, eventually we will be overrun and exterminated.. It is a near impossible task to go underground. Haiz..either way we will suffer
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For all the tough talk going on in the thread, I highly doubt even a small fraction of NSmen will desert. It takes a lot more courage and initiative to desert than I suspect those who talk about doing so have, and in times of crisis herd mentality and blindly following orders will be more likely.
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Originally posted by Babelfish:
Even if we really put up a tough fight.. Singapore is so small, eventually we will be overrun and exterminated.. It is a near impossible task to go underground. Haiz..either way we will suffer
maybe not.... a certain country wouldn't let us fall so easily.... -
Just remember when and how Great Britain let Singapore down.
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Just remember when and how Great Britain let Singapore down.
that time SAF wasn't even arnd... and GB was also fighting a war in europe...n singapore also has some high-profile foreigners in the country..in other words, they will be our bargaining token... -
Originally posted by charleslee:
that time SAF wasn't even arnd... and GB was also fighting a war in europe...n singapore also has some high-profile foreigners in the country..in other words, they will be our bargaining token...
Tell us exactly the name of that country (US,Britain,Australia,China,Malaysia....??) Which you think wouldn't let Singapore fall. -
Originally posted by Owen no7:
You are a joke. These money belongs to the people.You are a joke.
Reserves of a country are generated by the government through taxation on both foreign and local entities - both personal and business - that conduct business, living or pleasure in said country. The government is the custodian, which allots and uses the reserves as is seen fit by them. Any government with any brains like China, UAE, Kuwait, Brunei, Qatar, Norway invests their reserves by setting up SWFs.
Going by your fantasies that 'the people' OWN the reserves, how do you distribute the reserves to 'the people'? In equal portion? By citizenship? Divided by 4 million people, each shareholder get a few hundred dollars like a listed company giving out dividends? (i'm so sure you have no idea what i'm talking about cos you're poorly educated + a fool).
If you fantasize that it be dispersed in that manner, then it means you believe Singapore is a communistic country, because the contributors of the pool are not equal. How much did you contribute towards it, and how much Ng Teng Fong, the richest man in Singapore contributed towards it? Please la what a fucking fool. People who work for the government pay taxes too. So this means a minister, who pays far higher taxes than you and your entire lineage of 10 generations of ancestors added together, (because you're a typical fool, I doubt you came from good stock), has far greater ownership to the reserves than you. I'm quite sure you don't pay a single cent of income tax because I see you no-up, i highly doubt you make even a measly $1800 a month, or is it $1600 now for minimum income for personal taxation LOL?
You must be one of the fools who think that anyone who works in public service is 'hired' by you when you don't pay beyond $100 in income tax LOL, while my friends in public service pays $10k a year in income tax before they turn 30. Everytime i read the work of uneducated peasant fools like you talk big in forums about how civil servants owe you a living when you literally, have nothing and contributed nothing to both the success and the reserves of Singapore gives me a bad stomachache from laughing.
If a civil servant, no matter whether is a minister who pays high income tax or a clerk who pays not much, is 'hired' by the pool of income tax paying citizens, does it mean they are their own bosses and hire themselves? Since they also pay income tax?!
There isn't a single SWF that didn't lose money during this financial crisis. Four Gulf region SWFs lost US$450 billion (S$700 billion). Even Warrent Buffett lost money. Who are you dumb fucks to talk? Esp about money that is NOT yours? Loser. It's traditionally oil-rich nations, China and first world countries that have large SWFs. For a developing country like Singapore with no natural resources and land and many stupid self-righteous 'citizens' to have one SWF, you should consider it a miracle already and grab the balls of your smart leaders and suck them in gratitude.
You're definitely one of those fools who talk cock all day long about Temasek and GIC, when you can't even speak proper English and never bought a single lot of stock in your life and think that the 'losses' are yours, let alone understand the ABC of investing that some JC kids know. Yet you losers want to take on GIC and Temasek. Dream on. Fools.
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Originally posted by charleslee:
that time SAF wasn't even arnd... and GB was also fighting a war in europe...n singapore also has some high-profile foreigners in the country..in other words, they will be our bargaining token...No high profile 'foreigner' is indispensible to any government. Well maybe except Prince Harry or William. But there's no way they'll ever move to a place like Singapore with many dumb residents.
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Originally posted by Chunhow:
Waves and waves of enemy infantry? We are not fighting in the trenches of WW2 lah.
I will fight alongside my NS buddies I guess.
do you know the Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim country and not any of the Gulf countries? yup the world's most populous Muslim country, with 230 million people, yup.. is right at our doorstep about 1 hour ferry ride away.
Me thinks SAF can fight Malaysia easily but not Indonesia. And SAF knows this too. SAF built up its forces and pitches its skills against defeating Malaysia and deterring Indonesia. It knows it can beat Malaysia. As for Indonesia, it engages it knowing that its powerful.
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Tell us exactly the name of that country (US,Britain,Australia,China,Malaysia....??) Which you think wouldn't let Singapore fall.
the US wouldn't let us down as they see us as an important partner to asia...australia for obvious reasons due to the FPDA.. -
Originally posted by insidestory:
No high profile 'foreigner' is indispensible to any government. Well maybe except Prince Harry or William. But there's no way they'll ever move to a place like Singapore with many dumb residents.
unless they want to give up on their ambassodors, their miltary attache to the attackers? -
Originally posted by charleslee:
unless they want to give up on their ambassodors, their miltary attache to the attackers?That is not probable. First, the military attache is rarely someone high ranking. No government sends a BG to be a military attache.
Second, different military attaches carry different weights. The importance of the military attaches are in direct correlation to the importance of the countries that the government engages. Let me give you an example. The attaches SAF sends to places like the US, Israel and Indonesia would be higher ranked or have higher CEP than those they send to countries they deem not as important for military diplomacy.
An army can easily come into an occupied territory to extract certain targets without engaging in combat with the occupying force. Watch Tears of the Sun.
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Originally posted by charleslee:
the US wouldn't let us down as they see us as an important partner to asia...australia for obvious reasons due to the FPDA..What partner? Actually I'm interested to know what Singaporeans think Singapore is to the US.
if Sg were to sink tomorrow, it has no effect on a single thing in the US. Lindsay Lohan's pantyline won't fade a shade and the palms in Malibu won't even wave a bit for it.The box office receipts from SG is so small because of what a tiny country it is that it won't dent even 1% of Steven Spielberg's salary.
Singapore can't survive without trade with the US. But if SG were to sink into oblivion because its people like TS run into the Malaysian jungles to suck balls, there isn't an effect on the US at all. I doubt there's much of an effect on other smaller countries with a smaller economy than the US.
Singapore is not an 'important partner' to the US in any sense of the word, in Asia or otherwise.
Within Asia, China is the one country that the US is most keen to engage. North Korea is in its blacklist. Japan is its ally. It has its eye on Indonesia because of its large Muslim population and its link to AQ (sensitive, will not spell it out).
Singapore is not important a partner to anyone.
SAF is the only force that has the capabilities, obligation and responsibility to defend the tiny red dot. But I think it can only hold off for about 3 days. Don't count on a mighty powerful savior who owes you nothing to come and rescue you. The only and last time that happened was 2000 years ago. For Christians.
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Originally posted by Suffocate:
Talk about the enemy using 8 million people to kill our 4 million people. And our 4 million people probably one quarter of it are foreigners who will all run back to their country when there is a war. Minus the old and the majority of the spoilt women in singapore who do not know how to fight only know how to everyday in the office bitch and gossip and backstab others, you are probably left with only about 2 million people to defend singapore.
You overestimated the SAF and underestimated the enemy. The enemy probably need only 18 000 men to kill our 2 million people.
Talking about modern technology, I am sure other countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia also have it. They maybe poor but every country knows that no matter how poor they are they will still need to spend lots of money on defence. Even korea is also not a rich country but that did not stop them from building and firing missiles
It's 5 million, not 4. There should be at least 3.5 million Singapore citizens.
You obviously know nothing about military technology or the capabilities of the Malaysian army. Or SAF for that matter.
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Originally posted by Nikar7:
SAF doesn't know what it's doing.
according to it, it's purpose is to "deter threats from singapore".
but deter also got limit......if the invaders keep attacking non-stop, how we can still keep on deterring and guarding? somemore, because SG is so tiny, the invaders can just focus all their country's efforts into attacking a SINGLE key point and the country will collapse liao.
just think about the above paragraph in bold and tell me if it makes sense.
You need to learn to read. Maybe if you weren't illiterate, you'd understand English and know what SAF is doing. Maybe you could volunteer to redo your NS despite your hatred for the government since you actually went through 2 years of NS life without knowing the SAF motto.
You don't know what 'deter' mean. If invaders are attacking, it means deterrence has failed. Successful deterrence means that there's no attack. Which is why this 'gem' from you "if the invaders keep attacking non-stop, how we can still keep on deterring and guarding" makes you sound like a total fool.
Your self conceived 'military tactic' that you proudly underlined in this quote and even stress to everyone to read and be impressed, which you thought was a brilliant plan for the enemy, really proves why you were not an officer. It's so funny that people like you who came up with 'gems' above are the same ones making self-righteous shameless comments about SG and SAF. Seriously with this level of personal ability, even if you want to sign on as ADF man also fail miserably. SAF dude will scream "GET OUT!"
The thing is, neither SAF nor the country owes you a living. You're welcome to get out and go elsewhere to live.
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Originally posted by Nikar7:
that's expected lah, bro....which is why since we cannot escape when war comes, at least we can be traitors if really needed. although some may argue it's country before family and family before self, for me, it is family before self and self before country.
it's really not worth it to die for PAP or anything.
those who think it's heroic to die for country must have watched too much wartime hollywood shows liao, where those war guys get honored and treated like gods.
nowadays, who cares about Lim Bo Seng? in the minds of many singaporeans nowadays, the kind of guys in their mind are Michael Jackson, FireIce (for some SGF guys here), Jay Chou, Fei Lun Hai etc.
SAF doesn't know what it's doing.
according to it, it's purpose is to "deter threats from singapore".
but deter also got limit......if the invaders keep attacking non-stop, how we can still keep on deterring and guarding? somemore, because SG is so tiny, the invaders can just focus all their country's efforts into attacking a SINGLE key point and the country will collapse liao.
just think about the above paragraph in bold and tell me if it makes sense.
one thing Mr. Lee Kill You never understood, and will never ever understand, is that in life, people cannot be forced to do things against their will.
even if they physically appears willing, their soul is not willing and they are always finding chances not to do it.
And you think that battles can be won without infantry and just air strikes? The last time I met someone as dumb as to say that, it was a woman, who obviously never served NS. There's been no battle in history that's won without Infantry (inf= infantry/guards/commando) going in to claim the turf and plant the flag.
You can bomb the shit out of a place all you want, the air strikes are done to destroy key installations like airport and camps, which would probably be evacuated before the air strikes because of intel.
In other words, air strikes are combat support only, like signallers, arty. This is something that all Singaporean male should know if they are not retarded, since they would have to do NS.
In Iraq and Afghan, the air force can blow up the installations and bomb the place all they want but they still had to send in their ground troops to secure the mission.
The only time any battle had been won and secured without ground troops was when two atomic bombs invented by the scientists from the Manhattan Project (led by Berkeley University and assisted by Chicago University and University of Illionois) were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Everything was flattened, no person left, no structure left, so no infantry troops were needed to secure the mission.
How can you be so naive about air strikes and war what a fucking retard to have gone through 2 years of NS, and not know SAF war plan or come up with something so fucking stupid above, and worst feel damn smug about it?
SAF missions are conducted in the jungles here and in Brunei and Taiwan, because SAF expects to fight in Malaysian jungles. The fighting won't take place here at all. I can't say Indonesia but SAF can and will win Malaysia if the day comes. Deterrence is only first part of the doctrine. If you haven't enlisted like some forummers here, it could be excuse but having served 2 years and not know? Oh because you were a storeman. In that case, maybe you should STFU and not make a fool of yourself and confuse pre enlistees like army boizzz who may be fooled by the rubbish that lives in your mouth since you were born
I've been reading your posts for months quietly, have seen your copious display of idiocy and your bile against the state, routinely written in colourful Ris Low style English and totally devoid of any logic and nor rooted in any reality, much like the example above.
If your life in Singapore is so fucked, as can be clearly seen, unsurprisingly, best to pack up and leave.
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Hahaha since when did singapore ever go to war? if there is war, british or america will fight for us hahaha if not, they cannot do business here hahaha...
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Originally posted by Josh16:
Hahaha since when did singapore ever go to war? if there is war, british or america will fight for us hahaha if not, they cannot do business here hahaha...
hahahahaha i guess u are 16. if sg went to war, britain or america will what? boohoo? maybe frown? cry? hahhaha..or.. maybe wank and then go to bed..
seriously..sg economy is so small, if it disappeared into the Black Hole tomorrow, the only country that will care is Indonesia because their earthquake-hit area is receiving first aid from us.
little boy, the world's biggest economy is the US. 2nd is Japan and 3rd is China. Singapore's demise will not even affect Malaysia's economy. They'll just start treating their own water hahahhah
Singapore's GDP is behind 3rd world nations like Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Mexico, ex communist states Poland, Czech Republic, drug smuggling HQ Colombia (which stupid local NUS educated farmer ST reporters always write as Columbia- the Ivy League university
), drug land, source of the world's conmen African country, Nigeria -
The only thing that will save Singapre in a defensive war situation is its geographical location - the shortest route with refuelling and servicing stops between the East and the West.
Whomever controls Singapore, controls the trade routes of the world, and trade is the lifeblood of all nations. Even Hitler knew that and had wanted to dominate Singapore according to official war documents.
Should some nuthead ruler from Indonesia decides to gooble up Singapore, our country's valiant men will have to stand up and defend it with our lives.
We may eventually lose due to the enemy's sheer size, but we are not going to give up, to roll over and play dead, but to defend with our lives to maintain our soveriegnity and freedom for our families, friends and relatives, as long as possible.
The potential enemy had shown racist and diabolic idealogical tendercies, treated others with absolute cruelty and harshness, as proven for centuries, thus we can expect no mercy from them should our loved ones be in their hands.
We are not Somalia, tucked in some forsaken position with absolutely nothing geo-politically worthwhile to protect. The West - US and Europe, together with India and China will not willingly allow Indonesia, an Islamic centric state to control Singapore. Even the Islamic states will not allow it, for Islam is not an united theology as many presumed.
The UN council will definately meet to stop any enemy's control of our country, and will have to send troops out. Singapore so far had been a friend and ally to many countries, keeping neutral mostly, but supports UN or at least international military coalitions majorities initiative.
Such actions, however, will take time. In the meanwhile, it will be up to us men to hold out as long as possible, to ensure our families, relatives and friends are either kept safe or evacuated to safety.
Each and every soldier is precious, and are not expendable, simply because it would take another 18 years to replace one. Thus the necessary and tough trainning to ensure every soldier will be able to live as long as possible, as well as selection of the best and brightest to lead our men. We want no rambos or unnecessary loss of lives, unless there are no other options, and a final option only avaliable.
Remember always, you were trained to fight for your family, your relatives, your friends and your loved ones, which makes up our society and ultimately our country.
The previous generations had keep our country safe and served with honour. It will be the present and future generations to do the same, and improve on it. They are our hope and future survival, a life and death situation, a responsibility true Singaporean citizens must not shirk from, no matter the ideolgical differences that may arise from time to time.