Citizen Soldier's Responsibilities: For Family? For Country?
-
juddging from the replies from this thread, i conclude and concur that the chances of SAF winning any war against any invader who invades Singapore is even dimmer than the chances of Obama being best friends with Osama.
-
perharps let me offer this perspective for "ALL" individual who served in SAF and for those have yet to serve......and all those Crap talk about "Not fighting for Singapore" .......... consider the followings.......
Any country who intend to invade Singapore already knows SAF made of civilian soldiers, that is to say if you are male citizen of Singapore and if Singapore fall you will be treated as POW.....If you defect you better leave Singapore for good. Your HDB neighbor will know that you are a Traitor and if Singapore recoved you will be charged with Treason.
Post WWII German/Japan occupied terroritory Traitors are beaten up and killed.
In any case even if you don't fight occupied force will still be suspicious of residents Royality...........if occupier choose to play the Race card/religion for royality. They will content with Race Riot. As such occupier will find it effective to control all male serving population.
So either way either you fight as SAF or Die as civilian it is possible that you are still being treated as enemy combatent......hmmm........would u still fight?
-
Originally posted by novelltie:
yeah true... we might not win but we can die trying...
i think the philosophy behind our strategy would be;
"you want to conquer us, sure you can, you probably will but at what cost? is it worth killing 4 million of us at the expense of 8 million of your countrymen? if your equation is yes, then sure, bring it on..."
i've never said we will win any war, what i'm saying is, "is the idiot running the country stupid enough to raze us to the grounds at such a high cost? every soldier's death will cause a backlash from the public (maybe except North Korea). look at USA, people shouts, "bring our men home"... yes they are putting more men into Afganisten but people are not happy... China's people are very vocal too, the "Tian An Men" incident showed that if they are not happy, they will go to the streets... so with all these consideration, which idiot will risk hitting Singapore and accepting punches back? we'll see...
When i say we are arrogant, people flame me, but here we are claiming that we that if 4 million of us die, 8 million of the enemy will die as well. Isnt that arrogance? Or blinded faith? So that is our philosophy? That's a bit flawed.
And when they is a war, why are we so sure the enemy will face wraths from other countries? And if they do, you think another country will fight the war with us?
And for what should i die trying? I rather bring my whole family over to seek refuge from another country and we can survive to a ripe old age even if our life will be poorer than now. At least i have another chance at life. Why should i die fighting knowing that my family will probably die as well?
That's it, i am done with discussing about this issue.This will be my last post about this topic. Let me live my life with my opinions unless the Government can show me that this country is worth dying for, which till now they can't.For those, who will fight to their deaths, i only hope they are man of their words.
-
we fight when we are pushed into corner. but rather not fight at all. i think that is saf doctrine. and when fight, it is all out kick balls pull hair poke eye type. there is no other type
-
ahaha
TS you dont understand SAF or NS at all .
1st you said PAP bring in foreigners to steal your jobs, have you ever wonder why even some foreigners frm 3rdd world country can steal your job ? reason is because you want alot of pay and less work.. and they dont mind average pay and more work. if you are the boss which one will you choose ?
2nd i agree with you most people chaokeng throughout their 2 years ns but i guess alot people will be like you they say they not gonna fight for singapore if there is war.. but ask yourself sleep and keng everyday time will pass slowly people will look down on you but didn't keng and work hard make you gain something even if you are a storeman.. it all depends on yourself . you can choose to keng and let people look down or gain something during the 2 years of NS
and to alot people they say what singapore so small one bomb drop only half of the singapore might be gone.. can your stop living in kampong can ? do you know that there is alot alot of anti air-craft missle in singapore ?
and for SAF thinking is if there is a war. we won't fight in singapore
take malaysia as exp .. just a exp dont feel offended
if malaysia wanna attaack singapore our army will 1st take down JB and we fight our war there. .. simple and easy ? and do your know there if anyone wanna attack singapre by air they will be take down by sg aircarft in overseas. Singapore park their fighter jets overseas like country Indo ? and we got strong army so why scare? be proud to be ssingaporean so what if our country is small ?
even some NSF in commando or guards or NDU have to fight infront line but they also didn't complain...
rmb this together we stand..
we fight for our loves one .. our homeland
think if some other country take down singapore what will happen to your love one ?
-
ahaha
TS you dont understand SAF or NS at all .
1st you said PAP bring in foreigners to steal your jobs, have you ever wonder why even some foreigners frm 3rdd world country can steal your job ? reason is because you want alot of pay and less work.. and they dont mind average pay and more work. if you are the boss which one will you choose ?
2nd i agree with you most people chaokeng throughout their 2 years ns but i guess alot people will be like you they say they not gonna fight for singapore if there is war.. but ask yourself sleep and keng everyday time will pass slowly people will look down on you but didn't keng and work hard make you gain something even if you are a storeman.. it all depends on yourself . you can choose to keng and let people look down or gain something during the 2 years of NS
and to alot people they say what singapore so small one bomb drop only half of the singapore might be gone.. can your stop living in kampong can ? do you know that there is alot alot of anti air-craft missle in singapore ?
and for SAF thinking is if there is a war. we won't fight in singapore
take malaysia as exp .. just a exp dont feel offended
if malaysia wanna attaack singapore our army will 1st take down JB and we fight our war there. .. simple and easy ? and do your know there if anyone wanna attack singapre by air they will be take down by sg aircarft in overseas. Singapore park their fighter jets overseas like country Indo ? and we got strong army so why scare? be proud to be ssingaporean so what if our country is small ?
even some NSF in commando or guards or NDU have to fight infront line but they also didn't complain...
rmb this together we stand..
we fight for our loves one .. our homeland
think if some other country take down singapore what will happen to your love one ?
-
Originally posted by novelltie:
but thinking about it... in the event of war, where can you run to? countries that will possibly attack us are;
1) Malaysia
2) Indonesia
3) Neighbouring Countries in S.E Asia
during war, which country will offer you protection? USA? Australia? friend, you got nowhere to run to lor... have to squat, suck thumb and fire your M16.
Offer terms for surrender. Khenghis Khan and Saladin both offer their enemies protection if surrender and no massarce will occur. And it did happen. Families and lives are saved.If u fight, yr families may killed if defeated. Even u win. All credit will go to..... elite family. Yourr fight will be futile!
All the theory of fight it out and save yr love one or die is just some propaganda spread by some selfish elite family manipulating yr mind to shed blood for them.
If enemy offer good term, I will join the enemy and guide them to palace to wipe out the elite hideout.
-
Originally posted by army boizz:
ahaha
TS you dont understand SAF or NS at all .
1st you said PAP bring in foreigners to steal your jobs, have you ever wonder why even some foreigners frm 3rdd world country can steal your job ? reason is because you want alot of pay and less work.. and they dont mind average pay and more work. if you are the boss which one will you choose ?
2nd i agree with you most people chaokeng throughout their 2 years ns but i guess alot people will be like you they say they not gonna fight for singapore if there is war.. but ask yourself sleep and keng everyday time will pass slowly people will look down on you but didn't keng and work hard make you gain something even if you are a storeman.. it all depends on yourself . you can choose to keng and let people look down or gain something during the 2 years of NS
and to alot people they say what singapore so small one bomb drop only half of the singapore might be gone.. can your stop living in kampong can ? do you know that there is alot alot of anti air-craft missle in singapore ?
and for SAF thinking is if there is a war. we won't fight in singapore
take malaysia as exp .. just a exp dont feel offended
if malaysia wanna attaack singapore our army will 1st take down JB and we fight our war there. .. simple and easy ? and do your know there if anyone wanna attack singapre by air they will be take down by sg aircarft in overseas. Singapore park their fighter jets overseas like country Indo ? and we got strong army so why scare? be proud to be ssingaporean so what if our country is small ?
even some NSF in commando or guards or NDU have to fight infront line but they also didn't complain...
rmb this together we stand..
we fight for our loves one .. our homeland
think if some other country take down singapore what will happen to your love one ?
1) if those guys in China and India want to come to SG and work longer hours for less pay, that's their business. We cannot compare because SG is a developed nation while those 2 countries are developing nations. If you want to compare, then wait till 20 yrs later when those 2 become fully developed nations, then u compare their salary rates with us SGreans. and btw, due to those 2 giants rising rapidly, their average worker income has also risen with the times. 10 - 20 yrs down the road, don't be surprised if average salary in China is higher than us for the same job position.
2) it doesn't matter if one tuang or not in NS, because at the end of 2 yrs, everybody serve and fark off and forget everything. Like me.......i slog and tidy and care for my GE store and armskote and other rooms like hell and did free duties for some idiots, while others tuang for 2 years. Now, everyone ORD liao, who will remember?! i regret i didn't tuang more back then. I was a fool.
3) A lot of anti-aircraft missles in SG? oh yeah, u believe we have the resources to shoot down all the air strikes and air threats coming at us while we also at the same time defend invaders on land and sea? our forces will be fully streteched out thin.
4) we bring the fight to malaysia? are u kidding?! what makes u so sure our forces can even land in malaysia? and even if we can, our forces will be depleted and streteched out thin as mention above. Meaning if another part of malaysian army attack our stretched-out SAF, we are gone.
and btw, even if we can bring down JB, we still have one HELL of a fight to go and no way SAF will have resources or stamina to bring down other key installations in malaysia, because our armed forces are not meant to fight in other countries, only to "deter threats".
what this "deter threats" means is that we build up our SAF so that potential invaders will think twice about invading us, and not over-running another country in times of war.
because malaysia is so much larger than us, even if we bring down one of their city due to miracle, they have such huge land mass to carry on the fight.
how about us? just a single air strike hit singapore (even if it's 1 successful air strike out of 100), we're goners.
above is just an example against malaysia. if you replace that with Indonesia, we're still goners. If you're talking about China, say 50 yrs down the road when it's become a full grown dragon intent to devouring SE-Asia, then adios, Singapore.
5) are u currently serving in NS now? i know some guys get very siao-on and enthu during NS and even want to sign-on etc. I hope u're not one of them, and i hope you're not believing all these 3G crap and hype.
-
Originally posted by zenden9:
Offer terms for surrender. Khenghis Khan and Saladin both offer their enemies protection if surrender and no massarce will occur. And it did happen. Families and lives are saved.If u fight, yr families may killed if defeated. Even u win. All credit will go to..... elite family. Yourr fight will be futile!
All the theory of fight it out and save yr love one or die is just some propaganda spread by some selfish elite family manipulating yr mind to shed blood for them.
If enemy offer good term, I will join the enemy and guide them to palace to wipe out the elite hideout.
very good pt. if enemy gives me a satisfactory way out, then i won't fight. but push me in corner and say all will die, i sure fight.
-
Originally posted by SpecOps87:
Nope...not FDS.Starts with A, dubbed "Air Force Infantry" as we don't fly or come near aircrafts at all, only time we see them is when they're in our sights and about to press the magical "FIRE" button
ah... ok got it liao, what platform?
-
Originally posted by Suffocate:
Talk about the enemy using 8 million people to kill our 4 million people. And our 4 million people probably one quarter of it are foreigners who will all run back to their country when there is a war. Minus the old and the majority of the spoilt women in singapore who do not know how to fight only know how to everyday in the office bitch and gossip and backstab others, you are probably left with only about 2 million people to defend singapore.
You overestimated the SAF and underestimated the enemy. The enemy probably need only 18 000 men to kill our 2 million people.
Talking about modern technology, I am sure other countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia also have it. They maybe poor but every country knows that no matter how poor they are they will still need to spend lots of money on defence. Even korea is also not a rich country but that did not stop them from building and firing missiles
Singapore got better military technology then the neighboring countries. -
Originally posted by SpecOps87:
Nope...not FDS.Starts with A, dubbed "Air Force Infantry" as we don't fly or come near aircrafts at all, only time we see them is when they're in our sights and about to press the magical "FIRE" button
if ur talking abt rbs70.. u can't hit shit with that. hahaha
-
Hmm...Nikar7 you said something about not enough missles and resources etc to bring down air threat. What you said is true, but imo, if i was a commander missles are to be last line of defence . What are commandos and guards for ? This two vocation would infiltrate enemy lines, steal resources reuse recycle . We can even bring in enemy fighters from into our own airfields and use them later against them.
Furthermore a big army doesn't ensure victory, you think plant veggies and chicken lay eggs 1 day can eat liao? Steal / destroy their supplies burn their fuels cause destraction . Strategise lah....And btw someone said sumthing about good satisfactory way out you agree, this applies to like selling your mom away for $$$.Shame on you to be a Singaporean son.
-
Originally posted by SpecOps87:
Regulars...probably a handful.But looking at the attitudes of those I have in my unit...very unlikely.They are just there to leech on the hardwork of us NSF,when got 1WO or CPT above come supervise us to do work den they will get their arses off their chairs and come down, shout shout, wayang abit...show how competent but actually lacking the ability totally and den bugger off to mess or smoking corner to suck on a cancer stick.
I'm curious. What is the 'hard work' that you have done? -
Frank speaking.. I am so shameful of those who choose to run away rather than to defend.. Even thought we might have a slight chance to win the opponent.
In the first place, Singapore doesn't own you anything from the first day you are born.
Instead, from the first day we are born. We own Singapore a lot of thing. The security u enjoy, the education provided (without that u think we are still world class, without that can we still compete ourself even with those developing nation), the life (thought stressful, but what do we gain? A stable income to enjoy family bonding, able to go overseas relax for at least minimum once a lifetime.)
Do Singapore own us or we Own Singapore? Pls think through..
When we fight, we are protecting this piece of land (Red Dot) that we call Home. thought not as big as our neighbour but its still the place we grown up.
U can choose to flee when war come.. But you will be treated as a third class citizen, a refugee in that country. What good does it get? Are they going to look after u as their first priority? How far can u run when the war break out. At most only 6hrs of grace time. After that, the airport may be crippled. The sea line may be closed. As a individual you can run very far, because of no worry. As a family, how far do you think you can travel..?U can keng or tuang in NS. Who care! Who doesn't keng or tuang before. In my unit, everyone will find opportunity to do that. But when it time to do our job in defend n in exercises. Everyone will give their very best.. No one will want to let the buddy beside them down when the button is press.
Do Singapore own us or we Own Singapore? Pls think through..
When we fight, we are protecting this piece of land (Red Dot) that we call Home. thought not as big as our neighbour but its still the place we grown up. -
You die for the country because your country meaning your family,friends,home /possesions,livelihood.....etc..... and not forgetting your government too.Of course in this case,you can put the garmen at the bottom of the list.If you believe this and die fighting then you did not die in vain.
-
Originally posted by SpecOps87:
Well,for all up there that say you will shoot people who desert blah blah...let me ask you this..what would you do, if you knew you didn't stand a chance cuz the equipment you're given is so cui tt u can't even ensure 100% servicability? If war happens, yes...I will report to my unit, draw my arms and other gear...and vanish in the confusion rather den deploy with the rest as I'll be more useful as a infantry rifleman den some goddamn cannon fodder at the airfields. You want me to fight?I'll fight. But you want me to be cannon fodder?I'm sorry...you've gotta do it yourself.
I remember having some of your thoughts a long time ago during my first few years as a reservist....facing some frustrations about the training,equipment and morale of the men but most of us then would still go even if we were not properly equipted or outnumbered.It would give you a lot of confidence to know that the SAF today is so much better and different
. -
Originally posted by eTan:
Hmm...Nikar7 you said something about not enough missles and resources etc to bring down air threat. What you said is true, but imo, if i was a commander missles are to be last line of defence . What are commandos and guards for ? This two vocation would infiltrate enemy lines, steal resources reuse recycle . We can even bring in enemy fighters from into our own airfields and use them later against them.
Furthermore a big army doesn't ensure victory, you think plant veggies and chicken lay eggs 1 day can eat liao? Steal / destroy their supplies burn their fuels cause destraction . Strategise lah....And btw someone said sumthing about good satisfactory way out you agree, this applies to like selling your mom away for $$$.Shame on you to be a Singaporean son.
commandos, guards, wadever their names. they are just airborne trained, and probably more garang than the average army rifleman. outside of that, they are still infantry foot soldiers, mortals with only 4 limbs like the rest, with the same limited ability. they are not superman.
look around you, look for the people who are in commando. do they look as if they can repel bullets? in a gun fight, they are subjected to the same level of risk as the others, and we cannot depend on them as invincible soldiers who will win wars for us.
and you make infiltration seems so easy, that anyone can sneak in and fly off in one of their planes. the enemy may be lacking in equipment but not manpower. do you think they will simply allow anyone to sneak into their bases unnoticed and fly off with their precious airplanes?
and with regards to singapore's size, any potential enemy does not even need an airstrike to attack us. we are within immediate range of short range and intermediate range missiles, which are cheap and plentiful in the armies of SEA. and we all know that there's nothing we can do to stop these short range missiles. any missile hitting any hdb flat will results in unspeakable casualties.
and the navy is probably the most useless toy in any armed forces, with the exception of aircraft carrier groups (for the projection of power, since they are often fighting far away from home). for a small country like singapore, it is pointless to have surface naval ships such as the frigates. do we still expect naval battles in this day and age? when was the last significant naval battle in coastal waters? for naval ships to participate in land warfare, they will be exposed to land-based aircrafts, which can easily sink them with a missile hit. furthermore, a ship cannot outrun a guided air-surface missile, which is also much much cheaper than a ship.
to talk about food and supplies, our neighbours are all agricultural giants, able to produce their own food. they also have the natural resources and facilities to replenish supplies such as ammo.
singapore, however, have no means of sustainable agriculture, and lack resources like copper mines etc, necessary to replenish supplies. while we have to go in and sabotage their supplies, they simply have to sit down and wait for us to run out of supplies, placing us at a severe disadvantage.
in addition, even if it boils down to urban warfare in singapore, we do not have enough guns and ammo to last the war. we do not reserve 1 gun for every nsmen. multiple people share the guns. we also do not stockpile large amount of ammo during peacetime. so in the event of sudden war, we do not have the resource to equip every soldier in the land.
thus, we can say that the SAF is just a paper tiger.
-
i don't fight for the country, garmen or whatever
i just fight to live
better the other guy dead than me
the nice thing is that SAF provides me with weapons and ammo to defend myself!
-
Originally posted by kopiosatu:
i don't fight for the country, garmen or whatever
i just fight to live
better the other guy dead than me
the nice thing is that SAF provides me with weapons and ammo to defend myself!
and so you think. you think they have hundreds and thousands of spare arms set aside for every nsmen unit? and the ammo to go with it.
and what defend yourself. you think they will just issue u a rifle, den ask you go back home and defend as you see fit? the commanders will just mobilise you to the war front to die.
-
Originally posted by deathmaster:
and so you think. you think they have hundreds and thousands of spare arms set aside for every nsmen unit? and the ammo to go with it.
and what defend yourself. you think they will just issue u a rifle, den ask you go back home and defend as you see fit? the commanders will just mobilise you to the war front to die.
you want to run then run lor, what are you trying to do?
convince me?
i can't be bothered to argue with you
bo liao.
better a rifle with a 20 rounds than nothing, at least i died trying to kill someone else who is trying to kill me
-
Just one question for you.When is your NS enlistment date?
-
Originally posted by deathmaster:
and so you think. you think they have hundreds and thousands of spare arms set aside for every nsmen unit? and the ammo to go with it.
and what defend yourself. you think they will just issue u a rifle, den ask you go back home and defend as you see fit? the commanders will just mobilise you to the war front to die.
There will be enough guns and ammo to go around dont worry even your great -grandmother will be issued with one in case you cannot protect her. -
We can have all the good gear and weapons. But if the soldiers are not committed for the cause, then we will lose the war. When the day comes we have to face waves of enemy infantry , its the will to fight that will prevail not just superior technology. Hearing the NS kids these days complain about NS., makes me think about this.
Or we have loads of nukes, then that will make my a/m statement pointless.
-
Waves and waves of enemy infantry? We are not fighting in the trenches of WW2 lah.
I will fight alongside my NS buddies I guess.