Sign On: Worth It Or Not, Wise ?
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Originally posted by octega:
Do ur BMT, then post to unit, experience ur unit life. If you can accept that kind of life than go ahead, I am saying be it u are so called "born to be soldier", "I love Sg", "interest" or "want money only" type.
Be it watever type of person you are, life inside SAF can be fustrating because most things that you are going to experience has nothing to do with actual soldiering and common sense just sometimes thrown out of the window, you can be doing something that you know is down right stupid and ridiculous (and sometimes morally wrong) BUT you have NO CHOICE but to do it. Regardless you like it or not.
Be wise, experience first, sign on liao is for next 10 years, if u find it sucks, still ok, 2 years nia. Just dun sign on liao then u find it sucks, u lan lan LPPL inside and wait long long.
10 yrs meh? First there is 3-yr contract for short term, offered to those SAF do not see the potential to make it even for SAVER standard. Second, even if you sign on to SAVER, the minimum term of engagement is not 10 yrs.
SAVER means you got a contract up to 45 yrs old, however, you can leave anytime you wish once your minimum term of engagement is up. Thats why people can leave and do leave the SAF anytime they wish, no need to wait till 45. The minimum term of engagement for LSA is 4 yrs, MTA and SMS is 6 yrs. Those without SMS/MTA and LSA can't be longer than 4 yrs when SAF didn't even pay for studies.
Accuracy of facts aside, i do agree with the general message that you should be clear of why you want to sign on, and also experience soldiering life first. When you have, i advise you to sign on only because you have genuine interest in the job and not cos you want to 'marry your gf'. Even if its for 1 or 2 yrs, or longer, whatever, it's only fair to yourself and the organisation. Don't make use of people, especially if lets say they believe in you. Don't waste your time or the organisation's. Even if you say its only 1 or 2 yrs, isn't time money? Live life with a purpose.
Since you are posted to CDO, you may find yourself really taking to CDO life, which is a bit unique from the other formations. They're very close knit, very tight group, and they believe in their CDO pride. It may really be your thing. Or it may not. who knows?
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Originally posted by teraexa:
Er ok that time as a WSO(C3) 2LT, it's around $ 2000+ but less than $2100. CPF contribution is 15%.
As for gloater, I am speechless. I did NOT say that ONLY LSA holders get CPT after their degree studies. Please go scrutinise my statement again. Anyway, LSA do get CPT within 6 months because they are considered having gone through the 6 mths or so of pro term training. All degree holders will get their CPT within 6 months upon completion of their vocational training. That's why graduate officers' scheme people get it 1 year because they have their 9 months of OCS to go through. SAFOS will get it after their vocational training which lasts for at least 6 months?
Don't kid me about this promotion thing. I just read the directive that day. It states there clearly that "all officers with degree qualification will be promoted to CPT within 6 months upon completion of their training or return from studies under LSA."
You are a foreign university graduate, so be it. Don't try to smoke your way with this though. You are obviously not in touch with the recent directives unless of course, you are working with MINDEF.
The last I know it was one year after graduation for all degree holders. Although i won't rule out that they shortened it to 6 months so you may be right. Btw do you mind 'sharing' the link of this 'directive'? I'm not distrusting u. I said already I find it probable that its been shortened to 6 mths cos CPT is just a token, doesn't mean anything. Just wanna see it for interest.
All degree holders signed on to SAF before they do their degree get their CPT 6mths (if you believe the farmer's info that its been changed) or 1 year (if nothing's changed) from the time of graduation.
You're assuming that all LSA people get their farmer awards during NSF days after A levels. Of cos we know this to be patently untrue, considering that LSA is given out to all ages and all year round in a lelong manner. I personally know more than 10 LSA who got theirs after they finished their studies in the bumpkins' universities, then they apply to sign on. 7 of them didn't even make it to OCS during their NS days. so much for 'quality' *rolls eyes
LSA, ATA, SMS can be applied anytime and also a lot of the applicants and holders are not 19 yr old when they apply. in fact ATA is only given to those with considerable NSF experience. Not sure about MTA but I do think MTA are better and truer soldiers than these kucing kuraps, MTA at least went to the best military schools like Westpoint.
As we know from this thread, http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2298642&page=12 lots of local bumpkins in the farmer schools telling their classmates and girls that they're "high flying scholars" and then kena laugh at in hardwarezone. Just see the fucking comments from the hwz forummers about it and u can't resist laughing even if u're who they're laughing about.
I was reading what you said. Its interesting. FYI, I know for a fact that those losers who sign on for LSA after they finish their degrees on their own in the bumpkins' unis, have to sit through 9 mths of OCS if they didn't go OCS in their NS days, after passing out OCS they still wait additional 1 yr (and now shortened to 6 months) before they get their CPT. I'm very sure cos i met many of these post degree losers who sign on after they realised can't get a good salary with their lousy degrees.So now shortened to 6 mth this is good news for them esp. Maybe SAF changed the policy for them, cos otherwise they may feel they waited till 50 yrs old before they get it.
Anyway CPT is nothing, is like a bone they throw out. the fact that CPT is by default says it all. The proof in the pudding is in the MAJ and beyond.
As for your 'conjecture' of the route of SAFOS, this is what happens. Let me demystify you. They disrupt after Delta Coy in OCS at 19, go overseas, graduate after 4 years.
They return to service (23 yr old and their bond begins to count down from here) and are sent immediately to the US Army for 6 months of training in a basic officer's course.. These 6 months with the US Army is meant to 'replace' the time they 'lost' in OCS when they disrupted they go to fort benning the most common one, or fort knox, etc. I'm quite sure no one else in this place knows this.
Except 1 or 2 yrs I know, they traditionally have been known to top that US army course, beating all the Americans. It's well known, but you just need to be in the circuit to know. next time you see a SAFOS (not junior one back for school holiday attachment, ask one who graduated from university and returned from US army), just ask him. He'll tell you.
www.c4i-asia.com.sg/speakers-namelist.html DK is just one example lah. This younger one also http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/publications/cyberpioneer/news/2007/July/09jul07_news2.html its been going on since the 70s.
After that they come back and start their tours. Is 'this' what you refer to 'pro term training' whatever the fuck that means? Never heard before i believe its only exclusive to you. So where does SAF send ppl like you after your graduate?
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Those who join the Army out of a need of money, usually do not have very fulfilling experiences.
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I read that there are people in the army with Arts degree.
If I managed to secure a spot in one of the local university. In the following cases, how would it affect my chances of getting into OCS and then into a combat role?
1) Sign-On immediately after graduation
2) Sign-On after BMT, possible to defer OCS training and finish uni first?
I read about LSA and SMS, seems like SMS is a better sponsorship and that you can go into overseas uni?
If I get offered a SMS but decided to opt for a overseas uni, can I defer NS after BMT?
And what are my chances of getting into RSAF? My results are good enough to barely get into business degree and getting into arts should be no problem. CCA records are only okay, but I have alot of student leadership experience.
Thinking of pilot here, 1.78m eyesight less than 450 and astig less than 100
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Originally posted by Gloaterback:
The last I know it was one year after graduation for all degree holders. Although i won't rule out that they shortened it to 6 months so you may be right. Btw do you mind 'sharing' the link of this 'directive'? I'm not distrusting u. I said already I find it probable that its been shortened to 6 mths cos CPT is just a token, doesn't mean anything. Just wanna see it for interest.
All degree holders signed on to SAF before they do their degree get their CPT 6mths (if you believe the farmer's info that its been changed) or 1 year (if nothing's changed) from the time of graduation.
You're assuming that all LSA people get their farmer awards during NSF days after A levels. Of cos we know this to be patently untrue, considering that LSA is given out to all ages and all year round in a lelong manner. I personally know more than 10 LSA who got theirs after they finished their studies in the bumpkins' universities, then they apply to sign on. 7 of them didn't even make it to OCS during their NS days. so much for 'quality' *rolls eyes
LSA, ATA, SMS can be applied anytime and also a lot of the applicants and holders are not 19 yr old when they apply. in fact ATA is only given to those with considerable NSF experience. Not sure about MTA but I do think MTA are better and truer soldiers than these kucing kuraps, MTA at least went to the best military schools like Westpoint.
As we know from this thread, http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2298642&page=12 lots of local bumpkins in the farmer schools telling their classmates and girls that they're "high flying scholars" and then kena laugh at in hardwarezone. Just see the fucking comments from the hwz forummers about it and u can't resist laughing even if u're who they're laughing about.
I was reading what you said. Its interesting. FYI, I know for a fact that those losers who sign on for LSA after they finish their degrees on their own in the bumpkins' unis, have to sit through 9 mths of OCS if they didn't go OCS in their NS days, after passing out OCS they still wait additional 1 yr (and now shortened to 6 months) before they get their CPT. I'm very sure cos i met many of these post degree losers who sign on after they realised can't get a good salary with their lousy degrees.So now shortened to 6 mth this is good news for them esp. Maybe SAF changed the policy for them, cos otherwise they may feel they waited till 50 yrs old before they get it.
Anyway CPT is nothing, is like a bone they throw out. the fact that CPT is by default says it all. The proof in the pudding is in the MAJ and beyond.
As for your 'conjecture' of the route of SAFOS, this is what happens. Let me demystify you. They disrupt after Delta Coy in OCS at 19, go overseas, graduate after 4 years.
They return to service (23 yr old and their bond begins to count down from here) and are sent immediately to the US Army for 6 months of training in a basic officer's course.. These 6 months with the US Army is meant to 'replace' the time they 'lost' in OCS when they disrupted they go to fort benning the most common one, or fort knox, etc. I'm quite sure no one else in this place knows this.
Except 1 or 2 yrs I know, they traditionally have been known to top that US army course, beating all the Americans. It's well known, but you just need to be in the circuit to know. next time you see a SAFOS (not junior one back for vacation training, ask one who graduated from university and returned from US army), just ask him. He'll tell you.
www.c4i-asia.com.sg/speakers-namelist.html DK is just one example lah. This younger one also http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/publications/cyberpioneer/news/2007/July/09jul07_news2.html its been going on since the 70s.
After that they come back and start their tours. Is 'this' what you refer to 'pro term training' whatever the fuck that means? Never heard before i believe its only exclusive to you. So where does SAF send ppl like you after your graduate?
Wait I shall go find the link.
In any case, maybe you are citing army but for RSAF, the SAFOS do come back for their pro term training that they missed.
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Originally posted by kengkia:
what is the name of the school or for that matter the webbie link?
sorry but as much as i want to know, i myself don't know.
you might want to ask the news media for the contacts..
I don't remember seeing any contacts..or even if there is, i might have missed it, because when i came running out of my room to watch that news clip, it was already showing..so maybe i might have missed the important part..
sigh..
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Originally posted by SGcommando:
Rednano: Anyway.. LSA stands for Local Study Award right? how do I get it and if I got it.. is it a part time or full time UNI? and oh I am well aware of being "Hentak Kaki" if I am mistake in the force and also having 0 working experience if I am leaving it.. By the way.. my diploma GPA is like only 2.32.. sad I know.. =(((
ForbiddenSinner: Actually is my ambitious to be in Commando, Guards, etc.. because I love adventure stuffs and all.. Really dun wish to do 9-5 kinda job.. But then again.. Interest is one thing having a stable job with slightly good income is another.. tats why I am caught in the middle.. So I dun think I will sign on if I choose to sign on as a Engineer Officer.. wait a min.. do u mean engineer officer in CDO? or engineer officer in Armour or Engineer faculty?
Gloaterback: Actually I plan to sign on all the way till I hit my maximum age in CDO, retire and start my own small buisness.. and I am getting a CPT rank as a minimum asap.. other than tat I am not worry anymore.. because our combine salary will be sufficient enough to maintain a family.. and do u mean by SMS/SAS? and am I able to take full time studies half way during my service and rejoin the force to obtain CPT ranking?
Jus-tea: Yea! 10th July is the day my army life start.. actually I was from NCC so I am more or less know how the army people talk.. haha! AH WALK! WALK SOMEMORE! hahhahaha!!
Terminator2000: Are u a regular? if u feel uneasy to reply I cld or u cld PM me for some advise.. =))
To all: Thanks for the input guys.. really put me to serious thoughts of consideration.. Is like planning ahead for next 30 years.. so I will be a bit Lo Sho~ hahaha!! cheers guys!!!eh..
i beg to differ leh..
i myself is from NCC
but after going through NS and nearing finishing, if given a choice, i rather choose NCC although NCC don't have the real army toys (weapons and vehicles to learn) from, but it's the bonding that i like inside.
NS - hai ya..only those higher ranking people than will like it..being a man myself..i know how it feels to see the full power of them playing "tai ji" within the office.
higher appt push to junior appt, junior appt push to low appt..low appt push to no appt holders..
so alike if not much worse than the coporate sector
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Actually to TS, sign on is not a bad option but u must like the regimental life. People always advice you to sign on after u get enlisted. Anyway don't sign on just becos of the money.
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they usually will fund ppl whose studies got linked with their things inside 1
like aerospace etcetc if u go air force
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My friend say, if sign on kena office work very kns 1?
God, I don't want sign on then work as a bloody secretary in meetings
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Originally posted by Agenda:
My friend say, if sign on kena office work very kns 1?
God, I don't want sign on then work as a bloody secretary in meetings
No lah....depends where u posted...of cos if mindef, you'll expect more like a office boy becos too many big shots. But in units of cos u need to go outfield and office lah......what u want to sign on as?
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to agenda:
every officer needs to attend meetings and do admin jobs...liase with contractors and his men.and they do need to attend ceremonies,gala parties and overseas trips every year or month.
forget bout what gloater is tryin so hard to convice people bout his insurance policies and how to farm rice or something.the military will invite or inform u to go get a degree if u are good and see u worth the time for upgrade if u prove your mettle...no need to know all those abbrviations that even the scholar colonels themselves forgot.
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want money n outdoor, wok in construction can get 4k or even more.
Mr. Lee said u r d best or d rest.
attracted to d army n apply to d army is very diff. gloater's scholars r attracted. u r def not in this cat.
CPT pay enuf meh, CPT big deal meh. think long term n not walk looking at yr toe. nanti bang wall.
test water 1st b jump in, temp is diff 4 every 1.
how long to be CPT, wat ppl says here is generally, u screw up n u r screwed. remember u cannot resign until yr min serve in done.
sign on if interest makes u happy n not money
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TO I30;
VER RARE FOR CONSTRUCTION WORKERS TO EVEN EARN 1.3K SINCE 1980.THERES THAI WERKERS WERKIN FOR CHEAPER RATES.
IF 3-4K SALARY...THEN ALL SPOREANS LONG AGO WOULD HAVE BEEN INTO IT.N NOONE WOULD BE MAKING NOISE FROM NO MONEY TO SIGN ON WITH ARMY CAMP ON TOP OF AMMO DUMP.
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lol. one of the pilots on my squadron had this to say: every (airforce) pilots dream is to fly commercial.
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Originally posted by TERMINATOR2000:
TO I30;
VER RARE FOR CONSTRUCTION WORKERS TO EVEN EARN 1.3K SINCE 1980.THERES THAI WERKERS WERKIN FOR CHEAPER RATES.
IF 3-4K SALARY...THEN ALL SPOREANS LONG AGO WOULD HAVE BEEN INTO IT.N NOONE WOULD BE MAKING NOISE FROM NO MONEY TO SIGN ON WITH ARMY CAMP ON TOP OF AMMO DUMP.
Sorry. Terminator 2000. I30 is correct. -
TO LOKEY:
I HAVE NE\VER HEARD IF 3K CONSTRUCTION WORKER IN SPORE!
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TO LOKEY:
I HAVE NE\VER HEARD IF 3K CONSTRUCTION WORKER IN SPORE!
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if u are civil engineer n werk in construction thern its 3k-4k or more.90% of peoplwe in construction wont even earn 1.5k range even....
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Dear Ter
Sporean in gen look down on constn werk but it does pay well if u can take d sun n long hrs. FT be worker, Sporean min olso supervisor 1. best no need exp, can read write n better still drive pick up.
no need engineer, foreman olso earn 4k n more. by d time u spend to be CPT wld hv made more money. neber mind, we here telling young turks to see b4 jumping not abt constn werk. tot jus eg of getting more money fr job.
chill bro
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Originally posted by teraexa:
Wait I shall go find the link.
In any case, maybe you are citing army but for RSAF, the SAFOS do come back for their pro term training that they missed.
No need. I have asked around. The reason i didn't know of this is because they didn't kena it. It wasn't until 2006 that it was introduced and scholars in all 3 services - army, navy and airforce - are victims. Its supposed to be about 5 mths, SAF make the scholars go to OCS as 'officer-on-course', upon their return from US army, so that they can get reacquainted with the sg army system. Apparently its felt that US Army though tougher and more professional, may not get one reacquainted enough with the BS prevalent in SAF, thus the reacquaintance is necessary to do the trick.
And FYI LSA farmers do not do this pro tem thing, because only officers who disrupt from OCS do it. It's ONLY for disruptees. LSA do NOT get to disrupt from OCS. Disrupt what shit. LSA farmers enlist after JC at 19, they serve out their full 9 mths of OCS, even after they get their farmer awards, they cannot leave the army until the middle of second year of NS, isn't that when your term starts? When they graduate, they'd be 24.
The pro term whatever the fuck, has nothing to do with promotion.
Promotion to CPT remains at 6 mths (shortened down from 1 yr) upon graduation for all graduate officers. OCS disruptees and non OCS disruptees, scholars or farmers alike, will get the promotion 6 mths from graduation, doesn't matter where they are. This is only for those who sign on before they study.After SAFOS get reacquainted with the BS of the SAF system, they do their PC tour. Note that all tours are timed towards doing ATEC, any farmer who start their PC tour earlier, will also finish it at the same time as scholars. It just means those who start later do a shorter one. This is common sense, if you serve as a man in NS you'll also know. 2 OS of the same age, one starts his OC tour earlier, the other starts 1 yr later, both have to finish up that tour & do ATEC together. So the one who started later just means he do a 1-yr OC tour. The OS who starts earlier do a 2 yr OC tour.
For those losers who finish studying on their own and realise can't find a job with proper salary with their lousy degrees (a lot of them) and then sign on, this doesn't apply to them. Sorry. Have to go through 9 mths of OCS first, they will backpay them their local school fees. After 9 mths of OCS then wait 6 mths.
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Originally posted by CbEaM:
lol. one of the pilots on my squadron had this to say: every (airforce) pilots dream is to fly commercial.
That's cos they think they can fuck the cheap stewardesses all the time.
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Originally posted by i30:
want money n outdoor, wok in construction can get 4k or even more.
Mr. Lee said u r d best or d rest.
attracted to d army n apply to d army is very diff. gloater's scholars r attracted. u r def not in this cat.
CPT pay enuf meh, CPT big deal meh. think long term n not walk looking at yr toe. nanti bang wall.
test water 1st b jump in, temp is diff 4 every 1.
how long to be CPT, wat ppl says here is generally, u screw up n u r screwed. remember u cannot resign until yr min serve in done.
sign on if interest makes u happy n not money
Dun talk cock here or sow discord.
Any Singaporean male can have passion for the military. Don't talk shit here. I believe that Mr Agenda has real, though untested (since he's not gone through OCS) passion for the armed forces, but not Mr SgCommando who clearly said he wanted to sign on just to get CPT to "marry his gf".
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Originally posted by TERMINATOR2000:
if u are civil engineer n werk in construction thern its 3k-4k or more.90% of peoplwe in construction wont even earn 1.5k range even....
Engineering grads in SG do not earn much, they don't start off at 3k, can dream and tan ku ku, in fact sg is where engineers are paid one of the worst salaries in the world. in developed countries like the US, engineers are very well paid and respected, not here. LOL. dun believe, ask HR companies lor. Can get $2.5 in these tough times can steal laughter already. if not during 'good times', its about $2.7k only.
of cos I am talking about private sector, since someone here claimed that bangla construction workers and civil engineers can earn 3k. the only people who get above $3.5k for engineering right after graduation is sign on as engineering officer, unfortunately.
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Originally posted by Agenda:
I read that there are people in the army with Arts degree.
If I managed to secure a spot in one of the local university. In the following cases, how would it affect my chances of getting into OCS and then into a combat role?
1) Sign-On immediately after graduation
2) Sign-On after BMT, possible to defer OCS training and finish uni first?
I read about LSA and SMS, seems like SMS is a better sponsorship and that you can go into overseas uni?
If I get offered a SMS but decided to opt for a overseas uni, can I defer NS after BMT?
And what are my chances of getting into RSAF? My results are good enough to barely get into business degree and getting into arts should be no problem. CCA records are only okay, but I have alot of student leadership experience.
Thinking of pilot here, 1.78m eyesight less than 450 and astig less than 100
I'd advise you to apply for SMS. LSA is really no hope..you will not get a chance to be CO or rather you have a 0.01% chance. I think too tall also not very good for pilot. You can ask texerax to confirm this.