Counselling for Emotional DXO Superior
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nope it doesn't breach chain of command. your friend already spoke to the ssg. it didn't work so it entitles your friend to go to the ssg's boss or other higher ups?
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Originally posted by hisoka:
nope it doesn't breach chain of command. your friend already spoke to the ssg. it didn't work so it entitles your friend to go to the ssg's boss or other higher ups?
Above the SSG is that DXO lor... -
Originally posted by shade343:
Above the SSG is that DXO lor...than SSG talked to DXO le, so can go higher la
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Basically Mindef cannot do anything about it as it is an informal punishment so the best shot is to feed back to the person up the ladder and rank than that DXO and hope that DXO would listen. If not, your friend is not in just for 1 month of confinement but a hard NS life for the remaining months or years.
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Originally posted by shade343:
Above the SSG is that DXO lor...he also already talked to the DXO, so talk to the one above the DSO lor.
actually it's nonsense. MINDEF can interfere even if it's informal punishment. They (SAF hotline) are just finding excuses or think it's not serious enough to interfere.
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Originally posted by shade343:
Posting on behalf of a friend who desperately needs the advice of the lao jiaos here...
This is what happened: His camp currently has a DXO officer which the entire department hates because this DXO is super F up. He would impose alot of unreasonable punishment on anybody for the slightest thing (confinement for 3 weeks for being 1min late for morning parade ect ect)
Recently, he ordered a subordinate of my friend to to prepare lots of work documents for him. He gave that poor subordinate 2 days to finish a job in what 4 people would normally require 1 week.
My friend and his other colleagues tried their best to assist this poor subordinate in accomplishing his task, but it was not enough.
So that subordinate had no choice but to come back to camp at 5am in the morning and open the office to finish the job on the last day. He did a very good job, but when he handed the work documents over to the DXO later in the morning he was awarded a 1 month confinement in camp.
Why? Simply because he had breached regimentation by opening the office 2 hours earlier than allowed. My friend tried to reason with the DXO, but the DXO waved him away and told him not to argue.
My friend tried asking his SSG for help, but she told she cant do anything and didnt believe it because this was the first time she heard something like that.
The SAF hotline was useless as the person on the phone told him that this is an "informal punishment" and they cant do anything about it.
My friend is the head of a department with a corporal rank and his subordinate is a very hardworking personnel, it hurts him to see his subrodinate being unfairly punished.
According to my friend the DXO in camp used to be ok untill 4months ago when his wife died. After that incident, he started behaving in an erratic and wierd manner in camp. Like beinng extremely unreasonable, having strong tempers and to a certain extent, introverted. The MSG , MO and SSG seems to be aware of it but are keeping quiet.
Is there anyway my friend can help his surbordinate out from his unreasonable punishment without breaking Chain of Command? He pondered going public about this on the new paper but decided against it as DB will be the most likely outcome. Are there any other options? COuld somebody please advise? Any suggestions will be appreciated..
I recall being reprimanded when I went to the MP when my unit made massive screw up on my ORD. And really massive screw up which affects my livelihood after I ORD.
When this issue was brought up in camp, the S1 reprimanded me but I told the S1 right in the face, "It is because I have absolutely no confidence in you that I have to resort to such means." Remember, if you don't follow the COC, you can always present your concerns that poised you to skip the COC. But when you face the ultimate consequence, no one will pity you or your friend.
COC? My foot if you know it will not work. Be flexible and work things out intellegently. SAF is never fair. It is a very screw up organisation which people work with multiple standards. This is the culture , face it.
Is your friend depressed? If he is, you'd better help him out by calling the hotline or looking for your MP. If this persists, I don't rule out the possibilities of a suicide case. And based on this concern, you have absolute right to do something drastic in order to prevent something really bad.
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Your fren's camp de DXO is powerful lor.... last time my camp de DXO nothing de leh... only wear civilian's clothes, talk to RSM, morning run and eat noodles... wat DXO give punishments where can... cannot leh...
Talk to CSM of the company la... or the 2IC or OC... no choice ma... dont let this DXO give such unwanted punishments...
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Don't care about chain of command. I remember last time my IC, 2WO rank, told me that sometimes in SAF, to get things done, you must speak with the people who CAN get things done. Speaking to the lower ranked people is merely a waste of time. By the time things are done, the Iraq US war over liao.
Apparently, the SSG is probably someone who just doesn't want too much trouble, and after all, is only a SSG. If possible, speak to a commissioned officer or something like that. Or as suggested, go to MP if things still do not improve.
Unfortunately, it seems that your friend's unit might be siding with the DXO. After all, DXO cannot issue extras but can only recommend. Ok, perhaps they pity him coz of his wife's death but if nothing is done by your friend to highlight his plight, the situation will get worse. Apparently, the DXO is not dealing with his wife's death very well and may need counselling. Highlight it to your unit S1, CO or whatever. It would be helping the DXO also.
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DXO who say no power one? Most of the DXOs are usually retired Officers/WOSPECS. My dept, my boss is a DX11, and he is a retired MAJ. My Head Ops is also a DXO, rank is DX12 and he is a retired LTC. DXO are technically officers still and they have the power to give informal punishments. It all depends on their appointment.
From your situation I can see that both the SSG and MSG want to play it safe, don't want trouble and stuffs. Highlight this issue to your OC every other day, he/she will get the idea. However if the DXO is still higher in rank comparing to your OC, go to the next line of command which will be your CO. I understand in an office environment we will not see our COs so often as he will most of the time be out of office. Bring this issue to your AO too, he/she also holds a big appointment in your dept. Most importantly, don't keep quiet and get bullied.
BTW which camp is your friend from?
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Originally posted by skythewood:
than SSG talked to DXO le, so can go higher la
He says that the higher ups will always side with the DXO, regulars are friends with regulars...if tell mindef means breached CoC.Just wondering, if lets say, you suspect an officer to be suffering from a mental illness, can we all ignore his commands?
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Originally posted by shade343:
He says that the higher ups will always side with the DXO, regulars are friends with regulars...if tell mindef means breached CoC.Just wondering, if lets say, you suspect an officer to be suffering from a mental illness, can we all ignore his commands?
try it, or suck it. why are you posting here if not to find a solution?
no. you can go up the CoC to reflect your suspicion.
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Originally posted by MS:
I recall being reprimanded when I went to the MP when my unit made massive screw up on my ORD. And really massive screw up which affects my livelihood after I ORD.
When this issue was brought up in camp, the S1 reprimanded me but I told the S1 right in the face, "It is because I have absolutely no confidence in you that I have to resort to such means." Remember, if you don't follow the COC, you can always present your concerns that poised you to skip the COC. But when you face the ultimate consequence, no one will pity you or your friend.
COC? My foot if you know it will not work. Be flexible and work things out intellegently. SAF is never fair. It is a very screw up organisation which people work with multiple standards. This is the culture , face it.
Is your friend depressed? If he is, you'd better help him out by calling the hotline or looking for your MP. If this persists, I don't rule out the possibilities of a suicide case. And based on this concern, you have absolute right to do something drastic in order to prevent something really bad.
Yup, my friend is very depressed over this incidentand so is his subordinate...I asked refered this thread over to him liao, but his whole camp block out sgforums and all the other mini forums.
Only SG club seems to be on the whitelist.
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Originally posted by fatone:
DXO who say no power one? Most of the DXOs are usually retired Officers/WOSPECS. My dept, my boss is a DX11, and he is a retired MAJ. My Head Ops is also a DXO, rank is DX12 and he is a retired LTC. DXO are technically officers still and they have the power to give informal punishments. It all depends on their appointment.
From your situation I can see that both the SSG and MSG want to play it safe, don't want trouble and stuffs. Highlight this issue to your OC every other day, he/she will get the idea. However if the DXO is still higher in rank comparing to your OC, go to the next line of command which will be your CO. I understand in an office environment we will not see our COs so often as he will most of the time be out of office. Bring this issue to your AO too, he/she also holds a big appointment in your dept. Most importantly, don't keep quiet and get bullied.
BTW which camp is your friend from?
Thanks for your adivce...
Yeah the DXO is higher ranked than the OC... -
try the hotline again .... u might get another person who might be more commited to help ...
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like what they always say.. just suck thumb lor. But you can try talking to your commander about it, I'm sure there should be a commander whom you can talk to in your camp.
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Call the SAF hotline my friend, it'll work. i called almost 5 times i guess and viola, they will come dwn to visit you =D i got SOL though but who cares when it solves your fren's prob ?
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DXO cannot charge soldiers meh?
Those retired MAJ/LTC holding appointments (ex. camp commandant) charge / punish people like free in some camps..
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but if is like those female dxo who is quite average rank one.got problem can find who?
what is saf hotline no?
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Originally posted by gd4u:
try the hotline again .... u might get another person who might be more commited to help ...
No luck...Anyway, the issue is settled for now, my friend got charged with insurbordination for trying to talk things out with the DXO last week. Luckily his RSM helped him abit...
Sigh...Great Job SAF.
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Wtf, charged? then, sol ???
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I guess the RSM can help to moderate things a bit.
Anyway, since the problem is solved one way or the other, I'm closing the thread.
All the best to your friend, TS.