Counselling for NSF Adjustment
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k lets nt argue animore la shall we no point arguing over tis since we all knw tat ns we are nt able to geng thru and lan lan we haf to serve tis 2yr.
conclusion is ask him to study after he ord. as ez as it if u think there is other way then u can go other forum n ask i can tell u 100% other pple from other forum will gif u the same ans
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
If I've been filtering out, I wouldn't be attempting to even explain to some of you since you still don't get it. Yes, of course we have plans, just like, all of you who have your own plans and dreams.
If 8-5 is what it takes for him to be able to study, and that might most probably prevent him from sinking further into this mood, isn't that better? And no, it's not magically cured. It's called preventing or getting rid of what caused / sparked it in the first place.
For example, if Person A died, Person B who is a sibling or relative might possibly sink into depression due to sadness and loss. However, if A was brought back to life, obviously B would not be depressed anymore because there would not be a reason to in the first place. Would that be classified as ''magically cured'' too?
so ... we all know what kind of "depression' it really is now, eh ? ... a depression that can instantly be cured with an easy 8-5 job .... i think i can be an SAF shrink too ... it's easy ... I just need to powers to dispense 8-5 jobs to people who come to me complaining of 'depression'...
all i can say is, yes, i think you two are made for each other ...
he, and you, can try all he wants, both of you'd have to learn the hard way, that you cannot make everything go your way in the army ...... and in life ...
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heard problem must be treated withn heart medicine.
changing of vocation/duty will not help.
if now also cannot tahan. future how?
tell ur bf, dun think too much, this is a training for him, what if 1 day, he have a family, this job is his only job and he is the sole breadwinner, he have to grind his teeth and work through it also. This is an endurance test.
and yes.
im 18
i have finished my NS.
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actually there's a vocation..slacker than a clerk...deals in audio visuals...8 to 5 on standby and troubleshoot any microphones or projectors throughout the whole camp..but that's like for the really cmi or too many excuses..
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Originally posted by Fatum:
so ... we all know what kind of "depression' it really is now, eh ? ... a depression that can instantly be cured with an easy 8-5 job .... i think i can be an SAF shrink too ... it's easy ... I just need to powers to dispense 8-5 jobs to people who come to me complaining of 'depression'...
all i can say is, yes, i think you two are made for each other ...
he, and you, can try all he wants, both of you'd have to learn the hard way, that you cannot make everything go your way in the army ...... and in life ...
Apparently, you still don't get it. Even an example was so hard for you to comprehend.
Anyway, thanks everyone else for comments so far. I'll see how it goes.
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depression and being depressed are different. You're doing a good job at analysing the situation and defending yourself in a logical way, you don't sound like you have depression. Why not see a psychiatrist and get it medically certified?
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u may wan to go other forum and ask for advice c wat they say abt it. since we all here gif the same ans.
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
Apparently, you still don't get it. Even an example was so hard for you to comprehend.
Anyway, thanks everyone else for comments so far. I'll see how it goes.
no, I get it ... there's ALMOST nothing wrong with your logical arguments ....
boyfriend is "depressed" ... because he doesn't want to stay in, he wants a slack, 8-5 job so he can study outside and not put his future and plans on hold like hundreds of thousands of others did .... he is depressed and moody because he can't get the special treatment that he wants ....
of course ... the easiest thing to do ... would be for him to get that slack 8-5 job so he can stay out, surf the internet, spend time with his girlfriend every day, study part time, and enjoy life outside, neh ? ...
you still don't get it, because it's really about you and your boyfriend's attitude, than anything else ...
the only problems with your argument, is that
1. you, and him, are not "special" ...
2. your posting and vocation in NS, is not something you can choose, unless you're "special" ... such as your ah gong being LKY
3. being "depressed", does not make you "special" ....
of course, you're right in saying that different people are made differently,some people are mentally weaker, and go to pieces more easily ...
maybe he can plead insanity, as was suggested .... make it real insanity, real depression ... any other case, it's just malingering, neh ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
no, I get it ... there's ALMOST nothing wrong with your logical arguments ....
boyfriend is "depressed" ... because he doesn't want to stay in, he wants a slack, 8-5 job so he can study outside and not put his future and plans on hold like hundreds of thousands of others did .... he is depressed and moody because he can't get the special treatment that he wants ....
of course ... the easiest thing to do ... would be for him to get that slack 8-5 job so he can stay out, surf the internet, spend time with his girlfriend every day, study part time, and enjoy life outside, neh ? ...
you still don't get it, because it's really about you and your boyfriend's attitude, than anything else ...
the only problems with your argument, is that
1. you, and him, are not "special" ...
2. your posting and vocation in NS, is not something you can choose, unless you're "special" ... such as your ah gong being LKY
3. being "depressed", does not make you "special" ....
of course, you're right in saying that different people are made differently,some people are mentally weaker, and go to pieces more easily ...
maybe he can plead insanity, as was suggested .... make it real insanity, real depression ... any other case, it's just malingering, neh ? ...
I dunno, dude. I absolutely understand why most of us are pissed that someone wants special treatment for something which we all must serve. We all wanted to tuang at some level, but hated the people who actually went ahead and did it.
But during our NS, didn't we all observe that some people can adjust to life in camp easier than others? Some really really cannot adapt to military life. Must we push everyone to the exact same expectations regardless of intrinsic differences? I know MOST of us made it through with minimum scars but for the ones who cannot, push until they break and possibly screw up their lives and others lives forever...ff?
If he's got the balls to successfully do something about his situation, more power to him. If he can find some way to do something worthwhile DURING NS, then good. It's what we all wanted to do anyway.
For spacedoutpink - I absolutely wanted an 8 to 5 job, and instead became an infantry scout, getting to enjoy picking leeches off my body in the wonderful jungles of Brunei. Looking back - now I treasure those experiences, and wouldn't exchange it for a boring 8 to 5 job which ironically would have been more of a waste of time. Your bf's got to realise the 2 years are already taken away. Might as well learn something new while inside other than useless spending 9 hours a day pushing papers around.
If you guys HAVE to follow your plans, then do it safely. But like many have warned - if he is found to be malingering, he will be in serious trouble and THAT is maybe not worth it cos it will seriously screw up your plans.
My advice is, like many others here, for you to try and persuade him to accept that he needs to either reduce his study load during NS, or postpone it to after 2 years. Studying can be done without the internet. It will be slower but not impossible.
Although he might hate the NS experience now, he will probably look back on it with fondness. Good luck.
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Aiya, wan chao keng jus say la! Post such a long story for wat!
I despise this type of person! Thinking of 101 ways to keng!
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Originally posted by Fatum:
no, I get it ... there's ALMOST nothing wrong with your logical arguments ....
boyfriend is "depressed" ... because he doesn't want to stay in, he wants a slack, 8-5 job so he can study outside and not put his future and plans on hold like hundreds of thousands of others did .... he is depressed and moody because he can't get the special treatment that he wants ....
of course ... the easiest thing to do ... would be for him to get that slack 8-5 job so he can stay out, surf the internet, spend time with his girlfriend every day, study part time, and enjoy life outside, neh ? ...
you still don't get it, because it's really about you and your boyfriend's attitude, than anything else ...
the only problems with your argument, is that
1. you, and him, are not "special" ...
2. your posting and vocation in NS, is not something you can choose, unless you're "special" ... such as your ah gong being LKY
3. being "depressed", does not make you "special" ....
of course, you're right in saying that different people are made differently,some people are mentally weaker, and go to pieces more easily ...
maybe he can plead insanity, as was suggested .... make it real insanity, real depression ... any other case, it's just malingering, neh ? ...
and to be fair to ah gong, his grandson finished OCS leh
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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:
My boyfriend is in NS now.. and I honestly think he is starting to sink into depression. And no, this is not one of those chao keng cases.
I've never seen him like this before and it's really freaking me out. The thing is he's talked to the people in charge in the camp, I'm not very sure of the ranks =S but they all don't want to seem to grant him 8-5. They don't even seem to be sympathetic at all.
I guess the reason why he's like this is because he's been wanting stay out so that he can study. If he doesn't, he would have to spend extra tens of thousands of $$ just to continue his studies when he goes overseas.
It's really driving him up the wall and I can't even talk to him properly anymore.His loss of moods for anything.. constant guilt..
I would want him to go seek help and maybe from there he can get 8-5, but will it work? And would it be in the record for his future?
Oh, and he also has a knee problem. Seen specialist, letter given to MO, etc. Everything was still rejected.
I know some of you may say he should suck it up because most guys have to go through the same thing, but some people just can't. Its affected his whole mind and well being and I'm really concerned.
Pls reply! Opinions and comments and help much appreciated.Thanks! :)
well firstly i have to say that 8-5 is not an entitlement anyway.
For ur BF,u gotta ask him to really keep an open mind. You muz constantly encourage him to look at the bright side of life. Money no doubt is an issue but ur BF is born with a penis in between his legs, and being that,he is going to serve NS. I too also serve in NS and also been thru some tough points at sometimes thru my NS life but i have frens who i can pour out my woes and officers whom i can talk to anytime. I too put my studies on hold for 2 years and after 2 years,i'm now a polytechnic student at a polytechnic. Because of studies and 8-5 job will give depression ??? So why not ask your BF to tink about his actions,why not pass the 2 year of NS life happily and carry on to the next phase of life much more happier ?? Dun forget,after 2 years of NS,he still have 10 years of reservist.
If u marry him,and ur son came to you.tell you that he wans a 8-5 vocation, isn't the same problem pops up again ?? I may sound harsh but this is the fact and every single Singapore able-bodies males go through the same phase of National Servist. My father serve 2.5 years and he told me that i take it like a man,finish serving the 2 years instead of whining at home..
For his knee,please tell him to go see a specialist.. Pester the MO...
I can tell you that after going thru NS and what i have seen,is mostly what civilian can't see.. The experience i got,the silly things, is priceless.. that what what money can't buy.
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Originally posted by First Five-Eights:
I dunno, dude. I absolutely understand why most of us are pissed that someone wants special treatment for something which we all must serve. We all wanted to tuang at some level, but hated the people who actually went ahead and did it.
But during our NS, didn't we all observe that some people can adjust to life in camp easier than others? Some really really cannot adapt to military life. Must we push everyone to the exact same expectations regardless of intrinsic differences? I know MOST of us made it through with minimum scars but for the ones who cannot, push until they break and possibly screw up their lives and others lives forever...ff?
If he's got the balls to successfully do something about his situation, more power to him. If he can find some way to do something worthwhile DURING NS, then good. It's what we all wanted to do anyway.
For spacedoutpink - I absolutely wanted an 8 to 5 job, and instead became an infantry scout, getting to enjoy picking leeches off my body in the wonderful jungles of Brunei. Looking back - now I treasure those experiences, and wouldn't exchange it for a boring 8 to 5 job which ironically would have been more of a waste of time. Your bf's got to realise the 2 years are already taken away. Might as well learn something new while inside other than useless spending 9 hours a day pushing papers around.
If you guys HAVE to follow your plans, then do it safely. But like many have warned - if he is found to be malingering, he will be in serious trouble and THAT is maybe not worth it cos it will seriously screw up your plans.
My advice is, like many others here, for you to try and persuade him to accept that he needs to either reduce his study load during NS, or postpone it to after 2 years. Studying can be done without the internet. It will be slower but not impossible.
Although he might hate the NS experience now, he will probably look back on it with fondness. Good luck.
she already came out front and said it ... her boyfriend's sort of depression, could be magically and instantly cured, with an 8-5 ! .... what does it tell you, really ?: .... i do not think people like that deserves sympathy ....
i have seen some real maladjustment cases ... chaps who'd start crying when screamed at by the officers and CSMs ... chaps who's start bawling and wailing when under stress .... those people, in my books ... are people who really cannot handle army life .... they need to be committed at IMH of course ... and sadly, I really dunno what kind of a future people like that will have ... if they cannot handle little things like that .... how are they going to handle what life throws at them ? ....
and this chap wasn't the only one i've seen who tried to keng his way out so that he can "study" ... i've seen plenty of A level kids who tried that too ... thing is, why should you be given special treatments and excemptions, and have others take up your slack for you, because you farked up your own studies, and had to retake ? ... does it make sense ? ... it may be harsh to say so, but whose fault is it, really ? ... why should others have to cover for you and take up more duties and shit so you can do your own selfish thing outside, when it's you who farked up your own studies, your own life ? ...
and sure ...we all wished we could have tuanged and did less and had a cushier life during NS, who doesn't ? ... but why do we really hate the pricks who actually went ahead and keng'ed ? ... is be because they did something we "dared not" .... or is it because they did something we would not ? ... it's not even really about responsibility here ... it's about integrity ! ....
how would you conduct yourself in an environment where everyone had to do their equal share ? ... would you, for example, start a business with someone whom you know would grab a bigger slice of the pie if he can get away with it ... would "jiak" you if he could ? .... would you trust someone like that ? take him as a partner ? .... would you employ a person whom you know would see things only in terms of his own career path and personal gain ? ... would you hire him, knowing that he would slack when the boss is not looking ? ..... would you, for ladies, want to spend your life with someone like that ? ....
NS is a time, when a man's inner character's revealed ...... it's not about being garang and siao on and ranks and vocations .... but something more fundamental .... how you behaved during NS, is really a preview of your life ... it says a lot of the kind of man that you are ......
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Like I said previously, if you are really worried about his mental state, accompany him to see a shrink/counselor/psychiatrist/etc. If he does not want to go, then call on his behalf to find out what you can do.
Please do not judge SAF's psychiatrist too soon, from what I heard, they are more professional than their GP MO counterpart. I believe if your bf is a genuine case, then dun need to worry but then again, if he is trying to play the system then be warned.
I also hope you can also understand that unlike most things in life, SAF is one of the organisation in Singapore that is unlikely you can neogiate anything with it one. I hope ur bf can accept this fact, once he know he can't win SAF, it is easier to do things already. Trust me even LKY grandson still subjected to the same thing, remeber, he anyhow shoot letter upwards still got wack.
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Just go to MO and say you want to commit suicide. Then you will go to SAF Ward and a few weeks later you will be downpes to C9L9.
Alternatively, so speak to your Orientation Officer or a SAF Counsellor. Generally, if you are REALLY depressed, you will be granted excuse stay in. I know of 2 ppl who ended up like this. Both of them were really depressed.
I am in an 8-5 vocation (super lucky). Generally in high key, you will OT till midnight and even come back during the weekends. As such, there is no true 7.30-5.30 vocation (unless you are in base) :)
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couldn't really be bothered to read finish all the walls of text. read a few of it though. from my understanding, i conclude that your boyfriend is indeed lost somehow in terms of his thinking and perhaps all the regimentations he's going through in the army makes him feel depressed. don't worry he's not the only one. seen a couple of people like this.
can i ask how old is he? why can't he take up a part-time job while studying part-time AFTER army? and go overseas with you after 2 years later? firstly he saves up enough $$ for the trip overseas and secondly he wouldn't be so troubled over this 8-5 nonsense.
is money really the issue over here for your bf? i'm drawing only 400/mth (recruit pay) and i'm hitting $100 on transportation monthly and that leaves me with a pathetic 300/mth. (i'm from a 8-5 vocation btw) travelling time matters too and unless your boyfriend drives, 8 - 5 would be ideal. if he's someone like me taking the public transport, its not a really good thing to stay-out sometimes.
try to sound your boyfriend out. i honestly do believe there are other alternatives besides 8 - 5. if he's depressed over the regimentation issues in the army, sounding out to superiors don't work, try sounding it out to his buddies. lastly i wish your bf all the best.
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put it this way. the army is Wu qing one. simple. nothing ur bf can do. don't bother asking MP etc etc, it won't work. i feel for him. but well, 2 years is 2 years. depression is self induced, he should go see his camp's OO see what he have to say on this. might make him feel better.
his knee problem thou, ha that one is one of the toughest thing to proof. so most MOs are taught to be very cynical about it. only thing i can suggest is pay to get some big shot specialist(those at paragon medical one best) and see if they can do something about it, most of them could be LTC(NS) and if thats the case he got abit more hope. do note he can be PES E and still stay in hor.
every Singaporean/PR dude NEED to go through NS, not say we are too harsh or what, but thats the reality about it. and well, guys here are generally piss with people that can't face reality, its a right we earn due to us surviving it, we earn the right to be piss of at people that cannot face the reality of ns.
still, i feel for your bf thou, hope he can get something better out of it. -
Originally posted by snk86:
put it this way. the army is Wu qing one. simple. nothing ur bf can do. don't bother asking MP etc etc, it won't work. i feel for him. but well, 2 years is 2 years. depression is self induced, he should go see his camp's OO see what he have to say on this. might make him feel better.
his knee problem thou, ha that one is one of the toughest thing to proof. so most MOs are taught to be very cynical about it. only thing i can suggest is pay to get some big shot specialist(those at paragon medical one best) and see if they can do something about it, most of them could be LTC(NS) and if thats the case he got abit more hope. do note he can be PES E and still stay in hor.
every Singaporean/PR dude NEED to go through NS, not say we are too harsh or what, but thats the reality about it. and well, guys here are generally piss with people that can't face reality, its a right we earn due to us surviving it, we earn the right to be piss of at people that cannot face the reality of ns.
still, i feel for your bf thou, hope he can get something better out of it.LTC free one ah?
most of them could be? why not just say most of them is LTC?
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Guys, think most of you are being quite mean to the gal posting for help. She's just concerned about her BF and I assume knows nuts about National Service and its laws. So instead of bombarding her that her bf is guniang etc. doesnt really solve the problem.
However, the reality is harsh. Especially in Ns. Even with ranks, NSF is still NSF no mater if you are private, recruit officer or spec. Doesn't really makes a difference. I have a clerk who suffers from severe complications which results in PES E doesnt have the previlage of 8-5 job. In the Army, for a person to be granted an 8-5 job has to have very valid reasons that states why he could not perform his duty overnight. For instance, most common reason is married NSF who has bore a newborn child, NSF who has serious family problems that he needs to be at home everyday, serious illness, like sleeping disorder etc. Only handful will be granted thou. So mostly, Studies, illness, personal problems, BGR, doesnt grant u the 8-5 previlage.
I would genuinely advice your bf to seek consuling and states all his problems to person. The real reason I believe is not him be unable to complete his study plan as schedule or money wastage, it is his behaviour towards the problem he is facing. By opening up his mind cept and accepting the reality, it doesnt just help him to overcome depression, but inturned, also make him grow, and be independent enough to solve problems which is much harsher than what he is facing now in the working life.
If you have any problem unsure of, I will be glad to help ya out for any advices.
your friendly PC :)
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Originally posted by snk86:
put it this way. the army is Wu qing one. simple. nothing ur bf can do. don't bother asking MP etc etc, it won't work. i feel for him. but well, 2 years is 2 years. depression is self induced, he should go see his camp's OO see what he have to say on this. might make him feel better.
his knee problem thou, ha that one is one of the toughest thing to proof. so most MOs are taught to be very cynical about it. only thing i can suggest is pay to get some big shot specialist(those at paragon medical one best) and see if they can do something about it, most of them could be LTC(NS) and if thats the case he got abit more hope. do note he can be PES E and still stay in hor.
every Singaporean/PR dude NEED to go through NS, not say we are too harsh or what, but thats the reality about it. and well, guys here are generally piss with people that can't face reality, its a right we earn due to us surviving it, we earn the right to be piss of at people that cannot face the reality of ns.
still, i feel for your bf thou, hope he can get something better out of it.wa.you so bad ah.imagine you are the one got depression one.
then you see people dont like you just because you cannot take the stress.
will you not feel even more stress?
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Don't let the callous idiots get to you. (: Just because those poor guys had green eyes whenever they saw others get treated better than them in NS doesn't give them the right to go all high and mighty on you.
Like some ppl have mentioned, call the SAF hotline, meet MP, do anything to get at least his specialist letter recognised. Who's going to compensate you another bf if he ends up on a wheelchair for life due to his knee injury, or worse? Worst come to worst, suggest to your bf that he slip and fall in a strategic manner. The SAF may be heartless, but it always likes to cover its own backside and prevent public backlash. As for his depression, take him to a certified shrink and get a recommendation. If he's bad enough for professional psychologists, he's bad enough for whatever nonsense MOs the SAF can throw his way.
Frankly, that is but one of the pitfalls of getting a singaporean bf. Just make sure if you ever have a son, give birth to him in a foreign country at the very least.
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Originally posted by rooki:
Don't let the callous idiots get to you. (: Just because those poor guys had green eyes whenever they saw others get treated better than them in NS doesn't give them the right to go all high and mighty on you.
Like some ppl have mentioned, call the SAF hotline, meet MP, do anything to get at least his specialist letter recognised. Who's going to compensate you another bf if he ends up on a wheelchair for life due to his knee injury, or worse? Worst come to worst, suggest to your bf that he slip and fall in a strategic manner. The SAF may be heartless, but it always likes to cover its own backside and prevent public backlash. As for his depression, take him to a certified shrink and get a recommendation. If he's bad enough for professional psychologists, he's bad enough for whatever nonsense MOs the SAF can throw his way.
Frankly, that is but one of the pitfalls of getting a singaporean bf. Just make sure if you ever have a son, give birth to him in a foreign country at the very least.
I totally disagree with you
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Well, what do you know, the usual replies have come out of the closet..
Anyway, TS, if there's one thing you can do within your own ability now, is just to be there as a shoulder for him to lean on, regardless of anything.
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Dear spacedoutpink
i'm currently working inside cmpb now...and i've come across hundreds of cases each and everyone identical to your bf.. from A level students and their parents complaining about ORDing too late for their overseas uni studies, to the poly students complaining about having to wait too long for their enlistment dates... to parents who are gravely ill and need their kids there to look after them..the army marches to its own tune and will grant things as and when its needed..
your cases is not sepcial or unquie... if your bf is truely undergoing depression then go see the doctor and tell him that and let the Medical borad decide... he is not suppose to be doing anything else in his 2 years of Nation service besides.... SERVING THE NATION full time...
so that flimsy excuse about him having to spend 50k going abroad studying is crap..because it bloody will does not cost that much... at most 30k for a foundation year.. but thats besides the point...
i'm actually worried no one saw through that 50k crap... either that boy has been swindled by the agents or he's going to cambrigde or MIT to do it... if he can afford going abroad then he can jolly well afford the extra money to do it a any local private school in singapore..
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Originally posted by Devilsmarlin:
so that flimsy excuse about him having to spend 50k going abroad studying is crap..because it bloody will does not cost that much... at most 30k for a foundation year.. but thats besides the point...
i'm actually worried no one saw through that 50k crap... either that boy has been swindled by the agents or he's going to cambrigde or MIT to do it... if he can afford going abroad then he can jolly well afford the extra money to do it a any local private school in singapore..
I would disagree with you on this point. 50k is just the tip of the iceberg, for many courses abroad.
A simple undergraduate course in Journalism at UC Berkeley would cost easily more than 50k, if one takes into account the exchange rate and accomodation fees.