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Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:My boyfriend is in NS now.. and I honestly think he is starting to sink into depression. And no, this is not one of those chao keng cases.
I've never seen him like this before and it's really freaking me out. The thing is he's talked to the people in charge in the camp, I'm not very sure of the ranks =S but they all don't want to seem to grant him 8-5. They don't even seem to be sympathetic at all.
I guess the reason why he's like this is because he's been wanting stay out so that he can study. If he doesn't, he would have to spend extra tens of thousands of $$ just to continue his studies when he goes overseas.
It's really driving him up the wall and I can't even talk to him properly anymore.His loss of moods for anything.. constant guilt..
I would want him to go seek help and maybe from there he can get 8-5, but will it work? And would it be in the record for his future?
Oh, and he also has a knee problem. Seen specialist, letter given to MO, etc. Everything was still rejected.
I know some of you may say he should suck it up because most guys have to go through the same thing, but some people just can't. Its affected his whole mind and well being and I'm really concerned.
Pls reply! Opinions and comments and help much appreciated.Thanks! :)
I guess many people have already said your bf should wake up and not take 8-5 as an entitlement etc so I won't go on further on these issues.
Actually, I want to ask about his knee problem? Is it a crucuate ligament tear? That is a confirm downgrade to c2l2 at least, coz thats my pes status. If it is really a serious knee problem, he'll have to go on medical board to get downgraded. He'll have to "pester" his camp MO with all the necessary documentation from specialist etc, explicitly stating a recommendation to downgrade. The camp MO, after all, in the medical field, is just a GP. Rejecting the specialist recommendation without a medical board is like him questioning the abilities of the specialist and the MO is nowhere near qualified to do so. Another scenario could be those imbeciles at the medical centre misplaced my request for medical board review, causing nothing to happen. Happened to me last time, so had to submit again.
Another issue I want to bring up is the mentality of the unit, especially his closest friends. I have a friend in Hendon last time, pes c1, medic at medical centre only, but his fellow medics are siao one, lunchtime also go practice IPPT, do chin ups, 2.4 etc. In my unit, we sleep after eating lunch until its 1pm. So if his unit people think he is chao keng, they may invariably start to criticise him and this might be causing his depression. However, if your bf is really not chao keng-ing, then he should continue to try to get downgraded , it will ultimately be for his own good. But if he's chao keng-ing, then maybe he should think twice of whether he should grit it out or still try to chao keng further.
I think ur BF should stop thinking about studying while he is inside. many people have been thinking about studying while serving NS so that they dont waste their time. your BF should serve his liability than think of studies that way he can focus on army life.
hmm.. no harm in being.. gentle in your answers la.
just a thought.
I appreciate some of your answers, because some of you are really giving me advice.
Like I said, I didn't post here to pick a fight, but some of you are really harsh in your words.
As some of you have said, some people may really be subject to extreme stress. And for the record, my boyfriend is not trying to fake his way out, ''chao keng'', nor does he think the army is his dad's, grandfather's, along those lines.. etc.
I'm just saying that because the army is taking and delaying a chunk of his life, (eg: study (forking out another 50k is really a huge sum), and by getting 8-5, at least after he finishes his class, he gets to go home and do his work, research etc, whereas if he goes back to camp, no internet etc, he can't do any of it. Therefore, his grades will suffer). Once he does his course here, he can go overseas and fully complete it. Without this course, he has to go overseas and do a bridging, which costs about 50k, and on top of that, extra fees to finish degree.
As for his knee injury, I think its pretty serious because it has to do with the cartilage. Basically, most of the cartilage in the knee has eroded and torn.
We already had plans to go overseas once he ORDs, if 8-5 doesn't happen, all our plans will just be wasted.
I guess as much as I say this, most of you will still think.. he's acting childish, only want to "chao keng" etc. I know loads of guys have gone through this, survived etc and well done! I'm not saying he's special and deserves special entitlements.
But I can honestly say I've never seen him like this. I did my homework, and how he's acting and behaving, are really signs of depression.
And hey, everyone has their own limits, strengths and weaknesses right? If someone's state of mind suffers because he takes it differently from the majority, do we really have to insult, say hurtful stuff?
All I was asking for was advice. Good advice. Not: "Leave him, he's a girl. Gu niang. Get another bf." I just wanted to know if he really gets into full depression, will the army think he's lying because so far they've been anything but sympathetic. There's nothing I can do except be there for him and support him. All I'm asking for is advice that maybe helpful.
Other than that.. thanks to those who have been nice and understanding so far.
can't go home use internet so grades will suffer? what a bunch of bull. he can study in his free time while in camp, and study materials. now i change my opinion. he is a selfish asshole.
How exactly do you get material in camp to study without the internet, or get work done without a proper computer and time to even visit the library (if there are relevant materials there) when the course is more of self study, researching and projects?
Also, does the army provide you with extra free time if you're doing a part time course? What if he has constant duties to do? How will work ever get done?
And I really don't appreciate you guys insulting him and calling him names. I've said many times that I'm not here to start an argument or pick fights.
i'm curious to know why your boyfriend took up the part-time degree during NS in the first place? Plus, it's worse if you told me that he signed up for the course before NS, cos to me it is a pure lack of foresight on his side. To me, the slightest clue that NS is a primarily stay-in kind of job would instantly put me off taking up the degree and committing myself to the study. You get what i mean? Why shoot yourself in the leg man?
what i would do instead is buy reference books related to the course of study and study in camp. once i ord'ed, then get the degree.
some things you can't change, remember. Especially government-controlled issues. of course he has the right to say that NS is hindering his progress in life, but to force the government to sing to his tune is impossible...
i think the root problem is why he signed up for the course knowing that time would be a constraint....but he sure has guts trying to think that he can coerce the Force to compromise with him....the world doesn't revolve around him.
above are my comments, and kudos for being a caring girlfriend :)
Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:I appreciate some of your answers, because some of you are really giving me advice.
Like I said, I didn't post here to pick a fight, but some of you are really harsh in your words.
As some of you have said, some people may really be subject to extreme stress. And for the record, my boyfriend is not trying to fake his way out, ''chao keng'', nor does he think the army is his dad's, grandfather's, along those lines.. etc.
I'm just saying that because the army is taking and delaying a chunk of his life, (eg: study (forking out another 50k is really a huge sum), and by getting 8-5, at least after he finishes his class, he gets to go home and do his work, research etc, whereas if he goes back to camp, no internet etc, he can't do any of it. Therefore, his grades will suffer). Once he does his course here, he can go overseas and fully complete it. Without this course, he has to go overseas and do a bridging, which costs about 50k, and on top of that, extra fees to finish degree.
As for his knee injury, I think its pretty serious because it has to do with the cartilage. Basically, most of the cartilage in the knee has eroded and torn.
We already had plans to go overseas once he ORDs, if 8-5 doesn't happen, all our plans will just be wasted.
I guess as much as I say this, most of you will still think.. he's acting childish, only want to "chao keng" etc. I know loads of guys have gone through this, survived etc and well done! I'm not saying he's special and deserves special entitlements.
But I can honestly say I've never seen him like this. I did my homework, and how he's acting and behaving, are really signs of depression.
And hey, everyone has their own limits, strengths and weaknesses right? If someone's state of mind suffers because he takes it differently from the majority, do we really have to insult, say hurtful stuff?
All I was asking for was advice. Good advice. Not: "Leave him, he's a girl. Gu niang. Get another bf." I just wanted to know if he really gets into full depression, will the army think he's lying because so far they've been anything but sympathetic. There's nothing I can do except be there for him and support him. All I'm asking for is advice that maybe helpful.
Other than that.. thanks to those who have been nice and understanding so far.
hope u can ans tis question: u tink ur bf is the only 1 in whole army who wan to study??? if every1 wans to study then who else will be doing the other vocations?
u r only encouraging ur bf to b a wimp/selfish by siding him...
Originally posted by kajagugu:i'm curious to know why your boyfriend took up the part-time degree during NS in the first place? Plus, it's worse if you told me that he signed up for the course before NS, cos to me it is a pure lack of foresight on his side. To me, the slightest clue that NS is a primarily stay-in kind of job would instantly put me off taking up the degree and committing myself to the study. You get what i mean? Why shoot yourself in the leg man?
what i would do instead is buy reference books related to the course of study and study in camp. once i ord'ed, then get the degree.
some things you can't change, remember. Especially government-controlled issues. of course he has the right to say that NS is hindering his progress in life, but to force the government to sing to his tune is impossible...
i think the root problem is why he signed up for the course knowing that time would be a constraint....but he sure has guts trying to think that he can coerce the Force to compromise with him....the world doesn't revolve around him.
above are my comments, and kudos for being a caring girlfriend :)
Thanks for your comments. Well, he has not signed up for the part time course yet because he wasn't sure of whether he had to stay in or out. But he has been hoping that he can get 8-5 so that he can quickly sign up, finishing this course, then ORD and go overseas and complete it.
Originally posted by BrUtUs:
hope u can ans tis question: u tink ur bf is the only 1 in whole army who wan to study??? if every1 wans to study then who else will be doing the other vocations?u r only encouraging ur bf to b a wimp/selfish by siding him...
I know lots of other guys want to study, do other things too. But I'm saying that because he can't study, its causing him to feel like this. You can't control how people feel over certain things. It's individual.
But if this is going to cause him to really get depression, that is bad cause I cant bear seeing him like this, I don't know what else to do.
Is getting a stay out possible if the person really genuinely sinks into depression?
Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:How exactly do you get material in camp to study without the internet, or get work done without a proper computer and time to even visit the library (if there are relevant materials there) when the course is more of self study, researching and projects?
Also, does the army provide you with extra free time if you're doing a part time course? What if he has constant duties to do? How will work ever get done?
And I really don't appreciate you guys insulting him and calling him names. I've said many times that I'm not here to start an argument or pick fights.
than obviously take a course that don't need that much research, limit his research on the weekends. so 8 to 5 people no duty? he has constant duty? you think army bully him ah? or he nothing to do, piss off the army, and get extra duty?
inmy time, have to work 5 and a half day per week, and 2.5 years army. now is 5 day work week, and only 2 years, and still want to say go overseas will waste 50k? why don't he get a job and finish the course before going overseas AFTER he ORD?
Life is too good for the youngsters nowadays.....
Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:I know lots of other guys want to study, do other things too. But I'm saying that because he can't study, its causing him to feel like this. You can't control how people feel over certain things. It's individual.
But if this is going to cause him to really get depression, that is bad cause I cant bear seeing him like this, I don't know what else to do.
Is getting a stay out possible if the person really genuinely sinks into depression?
go ROM with him then... so u can save him...
Tell your bf to get the knee checked out, and other things might fall in place.
Realistically, what unit he is in, will decide if he can be granted 8-5 privileges. He has to present a proper case to his superiors if he wants this privilege bad enough. Nothing much you, or anyone else can do about it, except him and his own initiative to discuss this with the people in charge.
It is not impossible, but like I said, it depends on the vocation he is in, his unit, and of course, his boss. If he cannot do so, the next best thing would be to work harder during the weekends, gather study material and bring it in to camp.
The other fellas here have said everything else there is about having an entitlement mentality, so I shall just say that it helps to not to wish for too much while in NS, chances are, you might not get all that you want.
Originally posted by skythewood:than obviously take a course that don't need that much research, limit his research on the weekends. so 8 to 5 people no duty? he has constant duty? you think army bully him ah? or he nothing to do, piss off the army, and get extra duty?
inmy time, have to work 5 and a half day per week, and 2.5 years army. now is 5 day work week, and only 2 years, and still want to say go overseas will waste 50k? why don't he get a job and finish the course before going overseas AFTER he ORD?
Life is too good for the youngsters nowadays.....
Because theres only 1 course here that's relevant to what he wants to study. No point in getting another course thats not what's he planning to do in the future right? I'm not sure about army duties, which is why I'm asking, if he does has duties etc while staying in, how will he study? If he's 8-5, at least the duties are done during that 8-5 time, and once he's home, he can study.
I know that last time, the army was much worse and it's relaxed now. But it doesn't mean people still dont have their own problems. Like how our parents always say, the last time they had it so much worse, now all kids are spoilt. But we all know that, last time although it was different, they had their OWN problems back then, and even now with so much technology, etc, we STILL have problems. Same thing.
It doesn't mean that when things get better, problems or feelings disappear and everything is instantly solved.
Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:Because theres only 1 course here that's relevant to what he wants to study. No point in getting another course thats not what's he planning to do in the future right? I'm not sure about army duties, which is why I'm asking, if he does has duties etc while staying in, how will he study? If he's 8-5, at least the duties are done during that 8-5 time, and once he's home, he can study.
I know that last time, the army was much worse and it's relaxed now. But it doesn't mean people still dont have their own problems. Like how our parents always say, the last time they had it so much worse, now all kids are spoilt. But we all know that, last time although it was different, they had their OWN problems back then, and even now with so much technology, etc, we STILL have problems. Same thing.
It doesn't mean that when things get better, problems or feelings disappear and are solved.
8-5 does not mean strictly 8-5.
I had the privilege of office hours, however, most days we did overtime. It's a usual occurance.That is no even inclusive of the duty officer/clerk roles that will also take up rest of the time.
Yes, we know that everyone has problems, but sometimes, it's impossible to solve them 100% in an organisation that prides the collective over the individual. I'll be blunt here, but your bf's problems are not exactly those that are life-threatening or as bad as what I've seen in service.
While we are sympathetic, there's a limit as to what any ordinary NSF can do with regards to such things..
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Tell your bf to get the knee checked out, and other things might fall in place.
Realistically, what unit he is in, will decide if he can be granted 8-5 privileges. He has to present a proper case to his superiors if he wants this privilege bad enough. Nothing much you, or anyone else can do about it, except him and his own initiative to discuss this with the people in charge.
It is not impossible, but like I said, it depends on the vocation he is in, his unit, and of course, his boss. If he cannot do so, the next best thing would be to work harder during the weekends, gather study material and bring it in to camp.
The other fellas here have said everything else there is about having an entitlement mentality, so I shall just say that it helps to not to wish for too much while in NS, chances are, you might not get all that you want.
Well.. he did get it checked out, gave MO the letter, but MO refused.
I just think that NS is absolutely ridiculous sometimes you know? Like, seeing my own boyfriend go into depression wasnt something on my wish lists at all.
It's up to him if he wants to seek more medical opinions and present his case again.
Originally posted by Spacedoutpink:Thanks for your comments. Well, he has not signed up for the part time course yet because he wasn't sure of whether he had to stay in or out. But he has been hoping that he can get 8-5 so that he can quickly sign up, finishing this course, then ORD and go overseas and complete it.
Good to hear that, hope everything turns out well...
maybe this is gonna strain the relationship, but have you ever thought of getting him a psychiatrist or even SAF counsellor to evaluate him and also get the SAF counsellor to explain to him the reason his application got rejected??? maybe he'll understand better.
or you could seek the counsellor's help on his behalf?? how long more to his ORD? mind if you disclose his vocation? no need to be too specific, for fear of being exposed....
Originally posted by kajagugu:Good to hear that, hope everything turns out well...
maybe this is gonna strain the relationship, but have you ever thought of getting him a psychiatrist or even SAF counsellor to evaluate him and also get the SAF counsellor to explain to him the reason his application got rejected??? maybe he'll understand better.
or you could seek the counsellor's help on his behalf?? how long more to his ORD? mind if you disclose his vocation? no need to be too specific, for fear of being exposed....
He has about a year plus more. I'm not sure of his exact vocation though.
Will the SAF counsellors be able to help him?
I don't want to seek the counsellor's help on his behalf in case they think he's lying, I don't want to make matters worse for him.
sure, then drop my idea :)
i think he will be more stressed if you suggest counseling to him. but the problem needs to be solved definitely....
through counseling, i feel it's better to hear it from the horse's mouth.
haiz, gotta go sch, hope can hear good news in future.
Originally posted by kajagugu:sure, then drop my idea :)
i think he will be more stressed if you suggest counseling to him. but the problem needs to be solved definitely....
through counseling, i feel it's better to hear it from the horse's mouth.
haiz, gotta go sch, hope can hear good news in future.
Thanks for the advice so far (:
Originally posted by BrUtUs:
go ROM with him then... so u can save him...
yes, married personnels, even NSFs, r granted 8-5 vocations.
Originally posted by Rednano:
yes, married personnels, even NSFs, r granted 8-5 vocations.