Officers: Scholar vs Farmer
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Originally posted by codexboy:
sms is definitely not in the league of top scholarships from what i know, the academic req is pretty low as my friend got it with results lower than mine....and i not from ocs thtas why cant get.....the req is like you can secure a place in uni + from ocs, then can le....is mor elike a scheme to entice OCTs to sign on
Yeah my experience is the same as yours. The SMS guys I know average grade is 4A only, which is a below-average or poor academic grade among any fresh A level grad going to top US/UK university. They just need to qualify for the university and be from OCS they will get the SMS. And do you all notice that many SMS are found in UIUC?
The reason is cos SAF has a tie-up with UIUC to take in their SMS who don't get into other good US/UK universities. This is true and was told by SMS holders. -
Gloater -> Actually getting a PSC shortlist does make a lot of impact on your SMS application. There's no 'official' tie up, but i'm extremely sure that only PSC-shortlisted candidates who made SMS can disrupt in year 1 of NSF life. Perhaps it wasn't like that back then?
Also, things change :P Last year there were zero D coy people who signed on SMS under army.
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Originally posted by Kashiva:
Gloater -> Actually getting a PSC shortlist does make a lot of impact on your SMS application. There's no 'official' tie up, but i'm extremely sure that only PSC-shortlisted candidates who made SMS can disrupt in year 1 of NSF life. Perhaps it wasn't like that back then?
Also, things change :P Last year there were zero D coy people who signed on SMS under army.
Yep you are spot on about that.
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Originally posted by Kashiva:
Gloater -> Actually getting a PSC shortlist does make a lot of impact on your SMS application. There's no 'official' tie up, but i'm extremely sure that only PSC-shortlisted candidates who made SMS can disrupt in year 1 of NSF life. Perhaps it wasn't like that back then?
Also, things change :P Last year there were zero D coy people who signed on SMS under army.
Hello
if they think SMS is so good, how come they don't let them disrupt automatically like the SAFOS? Tekan until like that and have to use "if you made it to the shortlist of 2000 rejected PSC candidates" only then we let you disrupt.
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Anyone who makes PSC shortlist gets some kind of validation anywhere in the civil service. It's not only applied to SMS please! it's because PSC is considered premium by govt that it finds it a worthy form of validation to judge you. If you can see it for what it is, haha this is really a statement about PSC and not SMS haha. It does not signify that 1) there is a relationship between PSC and SMS. Which there is not or 2) that SMS is close to the level of PSC.
Their opinion is if you made it to PSC shortlist (which is over 2000 by the way out of which only less than 40 PSC scholarships are given out- 2% chance), then you get some kind of exemption, like a disruption for SMS. Doesn't say anything about SMS. Does say what they think is the gulf between the two.
Yea I'm aware that there were no army SMS last year. High fliers in SAF tell me it's because of that that they glamorised ATA and changed it to SAS so that people of ATA calibre would be more compelled to sign on.
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my fren who got the scholarship lsa/sms got no As at all
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Originally posted by codexboy:
my fren who got the scholarship lsa/sms got no As at all
Yeah Expected.
LSA= NOT scholarship.
SMS= Farmer scholarship.
Only President's cum SAFOS and SAFOS scholars are considered scholars in the SAF. -
Originally posted by teraexa:
To put it into context, SAFOS is the military equivalent of the OMS (Overseas Merit Scholarship) and together with SPFOS (Singapore Police Force Overseas Scholarship), they form the 3 highest tier of scholarships in Singapore. You can't be a President's Scholar without being either.
In the military context, SAFOS' CEP(Current Estimated Potential) is all the way to service chief and defence chief level. SMS and MTA (Military Training Award or now known as SAS(Military)) are all the way up to BG (except for SMS(Women) that is) even though most of the generals are SAFOS because there are simply not enough general ranks to go around. A realistic CEP for SMS will be COL, around brigade or formation commader at most.
Now you might think that SMS is pretty big in SAF judging by its CEP. It must be balanced with the police and civilian equivalents. They are SGS(Singapore Government Scholarship)-Open and SGS-SPF.
There are fundamentally 2 differences between these 3:
1) SMS is the only scholarship other than SAFOS, OMS and SPFOS that offers you full salary during your course of study although your allowance is lower than SAFOS
2) SMS is not administered jointly with PSC, unlike SGS-SPF. SMS is wholly administered by SAF with no dual track in the civil service. However, it is common to find former SMS scholars being seconded to Government-Linked Companies (GLCs) upon exit of service.
Well that's fundamentally the facts about SMS. I can confidently tell you that these information are the most current as of this year because I have been offered SMS (rejected it due personal reasons) and I have friends who are holders of the above-mentioned scholars.
As for scholarship in the SAF, when it comes down to the choice of accepting it or not, it really depends on your passion for the organisation. There's no hard and fast rule for everyone. Touch your heart and read your mind. The answer is likely to be in either.
You claim in the quote above to have "been offered SMS and rejected it", yet in
http://sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/62698?page=21, post 12 Sep 08, 11:16pm
you said "no i am not a spec. i am a sign-on officer, currently still an officer cadet." Hmmmm. you claim to have got the SMS (and rejected it due to your personal reasons) <in Oct 08> came after your unwitting let-on about being a sign-on officer <in Sep 08> when you were talking to someone interested to know how to get into OCS. So I believe the Sep 08 information. -
Originally posted by Gloater:
You claim in the quote above to have "been offered SMS and rejected it", yet in
http://sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/62698?page=21, post 12 Sep 08, 11:16pm
you said "no i am not a spec. i am a sign-on officer, currently still an officer cadet." Hmmmmwhat do you exactly find wrong with that statement/fact? oh by the way, i just commissioned, just in case you were thinking otherwise.
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Originally posted by teraexa:
what do you exactly find wrong with that statement/fact? oh by the way, i just commissioned, just in case you were thinking otherwise.
Everything's wrong with it, Sir! You said earlier that you are a reg. And at a later date, you posted in a separate thread saying you " were offered & turned down the SMS due to personal reason". It can't be you turn it down to take ATA and be a reg right? Hahah. So its either you fibbed about being offered the SMS or you turned down the SMS and got the SAFOS, Sir?! Which i know to be highly improbable.
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Originally posted by Gloater:
Everything's wrong with it, Sir! You said earlier that you are a reg. And at a later date, you posted in a separate thread saying you " were offered & turned down the SMS due to personal reason". It can't be you turn it down to take ATA and be a reg right? Hahah. So its either you fibbed about being offered the SMS or you turned down the SMS and got the SAFOS, Sir?!
I like your thinking. Logical.
But that's assuming that I am logical, right?
Yes I did turn down the SMS offer and went for LSA because they don't allow me to study Law locally. Now you see why I turned it down?
Well given your connections, it's not that difficult to find out who I am (I am part of the SMS cycle in 2008).
P.S. I am now an NSF but that's another story altogether.
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Originally posted by teraexa:
I like your thinking. Logical.
But that's assuming that I am logical, right?
Yes I did turn down the SMS offer and went for LSA because they don't allow me to study Law locally. Now you see why I turned it down?
Well given your connections, it's not that difficult to find out who I am (I am part of the SMS cycle in 2008).
P.S. I am now an NSF but that's another story altogether.
Thanks, logic is one of my biggest fortes.
Second and third year SMS can't be offered anything else, they are assessed on their military aptitude during NS and their peers (by age) have bagged the SAFOS for at least 1 yr and flown off long ago. All the SAFOS i know were offered the scholarship directly and none were offered anything else within the "SAF family". They have plenty of other scholarships in their bags, yes but all outside SAF, eg PSC-OMS is a requisite. They have loads others of the lesser scholarships so to speak, the ridiculous stat board and research ones easily. One PS i know have 8 other scholarships besides the SAFOS one he got (he got 9 out of 10 scholarships he applied), then he got the PS making it 10. It's not only unsurprising, but natural for SAFOS to have a bagful of scholarship offers but they are all SAFOS+ OMS + civilian ones.
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Originally posted by Gloater:
Thanks, logic is one of my biggest fortes.
Second and third year SMS can't be offered anything else, they are assessed on their military aptitude during NS and their peers (by age) have bagged the SAFOS for at least 1 yr and flown off long ago. All the SAFOS i know were offered the scholarship directly and none were offered anything else within the "SAF family". They have plenty of other scholarships in their bags, yes but all outside SAF, eg PSC-OMS is a requisite. They have loads others of the lesser scholarships so to speak, the ridiculous stat board and research ones easily. One PS i know have 8 other scholarships besides the SAFOS one he got (he got 9 out of 10 scholarships he applied), then he got the PS making it 10. It's not only unsurprising, but natural for SAFOS to have a bagful of scholarship offers but they are all SAFOS+ OMS + civilian ones.
But still... what point are you trying to make?
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Originally posted by teraexa:
But still... what point are you trying to make?
Just thinking out my train of thought aloud to you, sorry I tend to do that in real life too.
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Originally posted by Gloater:
Just thinking out my train of thought aloud to you, sorry I tend to do that in real life too.
Eh no problem.
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Local Study Award (Pilot)
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Originally posted by Pentaxdude90:
Local Study Award (Pilot)
No use. Also farmer hahaaha.
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teraexa, I'm ultra curious. I assumed you applied to UK universities (since you were interested in law). No, law doesn't warrant an upper case.
Other than Cambridge and Oxford, both that deem themselves a league above everyone else that they refuse to be part of the UCAS. I'm assuming you went through UCAS. To me, LSE is absolutely a school that anyone would be happy to have on his CV if they are even good enough to be in that league, if i were an arts student. If you didn't get into LSE, you can settle for a lesser UK university like Nottingham, Manchester or Birmingham for law but I'm not sure if SAF allows that. If i'm not wrong they have a list of universities that they send people to. Or do you have to take care of a sick mother or something like someone I know? Stay behind so you won't be separated from a girlfriend who didn't make the cut for the UK?
Within UCAS most people would concur that the top 2 schools are IC and LSE. The head of my brother's department in IC is an actual Nobel prize winner. I'm still surprised that one of the President's Scholars last year chose Warwick and not LSE or IC. I know many bright PSC scholars who eschew Oxbridge for London schools to be in the heart of London, but I can't understand anyone passing up LSE for Warwick. There's no strength of Warwick that isn't outshone by LSE. -
Originally posted by Gloater:
teraexa, I'm ultra curious. I assumed you applied to UK universities (since you were interested in law). No, law doesn't warrant an upper case.
Other than Cambridge and Oxford, both that deem themselves a league above everyone else that they refuse to be part of the UCAS. I'm assuming you went through UCAS. To me, LSE is absolutely a school that anyone would be happy to have on his CV if they are even good enough to be in that league, if i were an arts student. If you didn't get into LSE, you can settle for a lesser UK university like Nottingham, Manchester or Birmingham for law but I'm not sure if SAF allows that. If i'm not wrong they have a list of universities that they send people to. Or do you have to take care of a sick mother or something like someone I know? Stay behind so you won't be separated from a girlfriend who didn't make the cut for the UK?
Within UCAS most people would concur that the top 2 schools are IC and LSE. The head of my brother's department in IC is an actual Nobel prize winner. I'm still surprised that one of the President's Scholars last year chose Warwick and not LSE or IC. I know many bright PSC scholars who eschew Oxbridge for London schools to be in the heart of London, but I can't understand anyone passing up LSE for Warwick. There's no strength of Warwick that isn't outshone by LSE.To be very truthful, I always wanted to study local, so I never applied for overseas uni.
When I went for the SMS interview, it was sort of trying my luck with convincing them to allow me to study local using SMS. But alas, I failed.
From the moment I signed on, I just wanted the LSA, nothing more. Well they deem my grades "too good" for LSA and pushed me for the SAFOS board which I failed. Then I went for the SMS board which I passed but rejected the subsequent offer. All because they were adamant that I go overseas to study and I was adamant to remain local.
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I guess you enjoy being a farmer.
The thing is local graduates are by and large, unimpressive and low in intellect, almost incredibly stupid.
I met a girlfriend of one of my friends last week, NUS medicine grad who thought that reptiles breastfeed.
Even funnier was this NUS science grad, or from one of the numerous dumping ground courses in NUS (describes all of them except for maybe only medicine), who wasn't sure whether 'million' had six zeros all the time, or "some of the time only".
The thing is, i've met so many incredibly stupid local graduates, and not a single one that is of above average intellect. It's no wonder that when I was in JC and university, the Singapore students all concur to ourselves that local universities are for the lowest common denominator of our society. All 3 local universities accept and attract students of the same calibre. There is no difference among them, so we have to resist telling them, don't get your knickers in a twist. You're all crap in varying shades of brown.Some of them are so appallingly deficient intellectually, that we wondered to one another how they manage to call themselves graduates, so no one expects them to be able to excel at work even as workhorses, let alone get anywhere. But then the local intake for university is no better than a degree-mill if you compare it by US standards, so eventually we got over our initial shock.
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Originally posted by Gloater:
The thing is local graduates are by and large, unimpressive and low in intellect, almost incredibly stupid.
This statement demostrates 2 things:
1) You like to do sweeping generalisations.
2) You are no different from the "local graduates" whom you describe simply because you fail to realise that anecdotal evidences can hardly amount to a general trend, especially when it's from one's limited view (I won't say that your views are "limited" because you claim to be on personal terms with various SAFOSes so I give you the benefit of the doubt for that)
You wrote that sentence to bait the flames from local grads and when they do that, you claim that they are nothing more than bigoted fools which then substantiates your claim.
How convenient. You truly live up to your nick.
Now, may I ask, which university did you come from or are you studying at? It will provide a good point of reference on which we can use as a basis for future arguments.Yep I agree the standard of local universities are not as high as those top-end foreign ones, but there's absolutely no need to put down local graduates just because you happen to meet a few dumb ones. I have classmates who are currently studying in Oxford and Princeton and they tell me that their faculties are filled with people who are narrow-minded, have no proper world-view, aka "dumb". Does your argument still hold water then?
Maybe you are just dead set against local universities right from the very start. That is something no one can change.
Let me remind you, it doesn't mean that you hate being a farmer means that being a farmer is bad.
At the end of the day, given a choice, I will choose being a farmer than be some court jester who attempts to put forward his sweeping generalisations just due to the fact that he knows a few lords on a personal basis.
One question, I am interested to know, which JC/college/poly/high school were you from?
Maybe your bitterness towards farmers is not born out of hostility towards anyone who supposedly possesses a lower intellect than you but because of your inability to get out what you deem as a "farmer" life.
Don't we always ask, before calling the kettle black, the pot should look itself in the mirror?
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Your defensiveness speaks volumes. I wasn't baiting anyone. It's my and plenty of other foreign grads' sincere and heartfelt observation. Don't think of it more than what it was. It's just an uncensored pronouncement that's frequently uttered behind closed doors, and now and then a nice one comes along and says it straight.
I mean it's common knowledge that the lowest common denominator of the country goes to the local universities. They are termed farmers in the civil service, and in the foreign universities circuit.
Generalisations sweeping?Hahaha OR more like generalisations are formed because majority form generalisations rather than the exceptions. It's been like this since time immemorial. Rules than exceptions form a consensus.
I mean, what to do when its common knowledge that the top of the cohort is creamed off overseas. This is something that even the farmers themselves don't try to deny, well most of them anyway. Some are just so thick, they die-die doggedly deny. The funniest is when they invariably try to lord over SG non grads and think they're so great, as though they went to Harvard or MIT. All are damn sua ku and never step out of this little red dot much nor intereact with the outside world beyond their wells. When they go on some 5 day conference or 6 month exchange trip, they think they have seen the world and boast that they are also overseas trained. Si beh funny.
Local grads are poorly tutored but foreign grads are undecided whether it's the poor cultivation that degenerated their minds or it's their inferior minds that caused them to end up there in the first place.I did not say I used the 2 examples above to postulate that all local graduates are low in calibre. Neither did I say these 2 are the only examples I had. You assumed the 2 preceding statements. I cited the 2 examples, because they smack of such unbelievable stupidity, these people shouldn't even call themselves Singaporeans, let alone claim to be schooled beyond primary 6. They're cited for their extreme stupidity, yet they got to local 'universities', one of them to its most selective course, medicine. I did not cite the 2 examples to say that they are the only 2 stupid local graduates there is.
Majority of non graduates, especially poly graduates in Singapore are so much cleverer, intellectually superior to the local graduates. The local 'graduates' simply do injustice to the notion and ideals of higher learning.Don't throw idioms around when you can't justify its usefulness in your speech. Like so many netizens and real life friends I know, I'd rather not go to university than go to one of a poor excuse and come away more confused.
Another academic milestone for Singapore, when its 3 self promoting and deluded universities toot their own horn (yet again) but involuntarily reveal that they are no more than farmers. No matter how MANY delusional newspaper ads they run. http://talkback.stomp.com.sg/forums/showthread.php?t=22422
NTU- the "Leaders of Tomorow". They are such 'leaders' that they can't spell primary school words whilst boasting.
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Originally posted by teraexa:
Yep I agree the standard of local universities are not as high as those top-end foreign ones, but there's absolutely no need to put down local graduates just because you happen to meet a few dumb ones. I have classmates who are currently studying in Oxford and Princeton and they tell me that their faculties are filled with people who are narrow-minded, have no proper world-view, aka "dumb". Does your argument still hold water then?
Big deal. The only thing I see in the above is that you have well educated friends and that they're humble and self-critical- the latter a VERY common trait among high achievers. How do your humble and well-educated friends' gripes about their classmates mean your farmer friends are smart, super broad-minded and hold super impressive world-views? Duh. (I don't think you've convinced a single soul here that) Count yourself lucky that your friends aren't telling you what you don't like to know to your face and are politically correct. I know because I hear what's said.
You probably don't know this, but Singapore scholars have a history of topping the cohort in top foreign universities. It's possible that some think their classmates are a certain way although I'm suspicious because I've not heard Singapore foreign grads badmouthing their counterparts. But it doesn't say anything about what they think of the farmers. Which is worse. They just tell you the polite version.
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Originally posted by teraexa:One question, I am interested to know, which JC/college/poly/high school were you from?
Maybe your bitterness towards farmers is not born out of hostility towards anyone who supposedly possesses a lower intellect than you but because of your inability to get out what you deem as a "farmer" life.
Thanks SG Freud for your hollow and amusingly untrained psychological analysis.
A "farmer life" is lived by a farmer, nothing more, nothing less. It's a label, and more than that, a mentality. Stop thinking so much about your future.
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Originally posted by Gloater:
I did not say I used the 2 examples above to postulate that all local graduates are low in calibre. Neither did I say these 2 are the only examples I had. You assumed the 2 preceding statements. I cited the 2 examples, because they smack of such unbelievable stupidity, these people shouldn't even call themselves Singaporeans, let alone claim to be schooled beyond primary 6. They're cited for their extreme stupidity, yet they got into local 'universities', one of them into its most selective disciple. I did not cite the 2 examples to say that they are the only 2 stupid local graduates there is.
Don't throw idioms around when you can't justify its usefulness in your speech. It makes you look sillier. There's no black pot here to complement the kettle. Cos you're the one with the farmer CV and poor disguise of a graduate. Not the well-educated. Like so many netizens and real life friends I know, I'd rather not go to university than go to one of a poor excuse and come away more confused.
I did not assume that those were your only 2 examples but instead questioned if your perceptions are unnecessarily restricted by your lack of interactions real-world wise. Well, since you chose to nitpick my doubts as assumptions, I have nothing to say.
As rather not going to university, now may I ask you AGAIN, which university did you come from? Such contextual information is crucial in order for us to know where you are coming from and your motive for your opinions.
Originally posted by Gloater:Big deal. The only thing I see in the above is that you have well educated friends (unlike yourself) and that they're humble and self-critical- the latter a VERY common trait among high achievers. How does your humble and well-educated friends' gripes about their classmates mean your farmer friends are smart, super broad-minded and hold super impressive world-views? Duh. (I don't think you've convinced a single soul here that) Count yourself lucky that your friends aren't telling you what you don't like to know to your face and are politically correct. I know because I hear what's said.
Well, I didn't say that the "farmers" are smart, super broad-minded and hold super impressive world-views. Examples of foreign grads not possessing such attributes does not necessarily equate to local grads possessing these attributes. Now who is the one putting words into my mouth and assuming? The fact that you lack brains should not be used as a basis to assume that others lack brains too.
Oh by the way, I don't think my friends are as conniving as you. Maybe I am optimistic but the more likely thing is that you are just the jerk.
Originally posted by Gloater:Thanks SG Freud for your hollow and amusingly untrained psychological analysis.
A "farmer life" is lived by a farmer, nothing more, nothing less. It's a label, and more than that, a mentality. Stop thinking so much about your future.
Thanks for labelling my well-natured advice as "untrained psychological analysis". I will hardly label it as analysis but you did, so oh wells...
And about my future, I am pretty sure mine is set. A smooth path to the upper echelons while you remain whiny and bitchy about local grads and "farmers".
Why? Because I had the opportunity to go overseas but unlike you, I don't jump on the chance to go overseas to study like a male dog jumping onto a bitch in heat, unlike you.
Perhaps, one crucial point I failed to mention is that your analysis about farmers is accurate perhaps only to the government and civil service. Your myopic vision has led you overlook the fact there's something called a private sector.
Not so sure about you but I ain't so silly to bitch and whine about local grads being termed as "farmers" by foreign universities which are frankly hardly any better. Foreign universities are not necessarily better. MIT is foreign, so is Universiti Teknologi Malaysia.
And you can say all you want about farmers and me about being bitter not being part of the "cream of the crop" that goes overseas. It doesn't matter because I know very well that I have the calibre and the chance to be part of the "cream".
Yet, I, unlike you, have the freedom to choose the "farmer" path. You, perhaps, have no choice but to plunge into it.
Now, that's something that you should be truly bitter about.