hey people. jus wondering if any1 of you have heard of any generals who are not SAFOS or MERIT scholars. thx.
I don't think so. Most of the generals were high flyer.
Farmers vs. Scholars
As with many militaries, there exists numerous rivalries such as officer/non-officer, combat/logistics divides, Army/Navy/Air Force. Fortunately, because the members of the SAF are thoroughly integrated into society at large, there are no major military/civilian issues.
Apart from such minor divisions, a more important dichotomy is observed between officers who are polytechnic or local university graduates (Farmers), and former scholarship holders who studied overseas (Scholars). This phenomenon exists because of fast-tracked careers, quick promotions, a dual-track career in the Civil Service after mandatory retirement offered as enticement for young men to take up SAF scholarships. While this state of affairs has existed since the Singapore government started giving out scholarships, the issue was mentioned in Parliament for the first time in a speech decrying the class-consciousness and social stratification resulting from the existing policies
from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces_ranks
Originally posted by iamFunkydude:hey people. jus wondering if any1 of you have heard of any generals who are not SAFOS or MERIT scholars. thx.
SMS is not even comparable to SAFOS.
Comparing all scholarships including those not from SAF, the SMS is not even comparable to the league of OMS. And OMS is not even comparable to the league of SAFOS. Errrm which makes SMS way way off from SAFOS. Just ask the government or literally anyone from RJC or HCJC.
For starters, SAFOS and OMS are top PSC scholarships. SMS is a nothing.
The President's Scholarship is given only to SAFOS (or SPFOS) and OMS scholars..
Another important/interesting point to note is that besides being 2nd tier, SMS is a wholly SAF scholarship.
SAFOS is a top PSC scholarship. PSC itself announces that SAFOS is the best scholarship after the President's Scholarship. that SAFOS is PSC scholarship administered for SAF makes SAFOS scholars equal parts PSC, equal part SAF, a lot of exposure at ministries and Admin Service.
SMS do not have this privilege or exposure.
Originally posted by iamFunkydude:hey people. jus wondering if any1 of you have heard of any generals who are not SAFOS or MERIT scholars. thx.
Not sure how true is this (dun quote me) ... when I was still serving NSF, came across from someone that BG (Rtd) Patrick Choy from the Armour formation has only "O" levels ... he is now an EVP at ST Kinetics...
LG (Ret) Winston Choo was also not a scholar I believe.
Double post
Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:LG (Ret) Winston Choo was also not a scholar I believe.
Nope he's not......but he's a unique case....but I believe in the later stage he got degree from some uni overseas
Originally posted by flash9933:Not sure how true is this (dun quote me) ... when I was still serving NSF, came across from someone that BG (Rtd) Patrick Choy from the Armour formation has only "O" levels ... he is now an EVP at ST Kinetics...
What rank did he retire as, is the pertinent question. if i retire as a LTC at 45, by 55 I'd be a BG (RETIRED). There are actually truckloads of people with a BG (Retired) rank as their reservist rank. This person is not alone.
Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:LG (Ret) Winston Choo was also not a scholar I believe.
Yes this is correct. Winston Choo was the first LG of SAF. When he became CDF, the SAFOS has not started yet.
Since Lim Neo Chian, there has not been a non scholar (ie SAFOS) COA. Lim Neo Chian belongs to the 2nd most pioneer batch (1972) Lee Hsien Loong is the 1st batch (1971)but he did not make COA.
I wonder have you all heard from middle management in the SAF about Winston Choo? I heard from many many people in SAF that he was extremely hated and had a very bad temperament. It was also why SAF didn't bother about him after he left. He went to Red Cross and took up a token non-executive appointment.
gloater,just wondering howcome you know so much top managment news.
you regular?
Originally posted by Sakuragi86:gloater,just wondering howcome you know so much top managment news.
you regular?
i'm civilian with regular friends.
wad are the chances that SAFO or even SMS holders are even from poly??
sad case for those in poly. even LSA also hard to get
Originally posted by Gloater:i'm civilian with regular friends.
regular friend?
what about irregular friend?
Originally posted by Nokia-lover:wad are the chances that SAFO or even SMS holders are even from poly??
sad case for those in poly. even LSA also hard to get
SAFOS has never had from poly before in history so should be 0% unless precedence is broken.
SMS got from poly, not that unusual.
Not true. Quite a lot of poly students get ATA and LSA awards. SMS have as well.
SAFOS cannot lah.. very very hard even for top JC students. SAFOS recipients are guys who must already have an OMS offer in the bag. I'm sure some of you frm RJ or HC know this. they're basically OMS calibre people + military top up
ya this one i realise.
all SAFO is from JC. govt. hav the mindset that poly student are not that smart.
but i know SMS & LSA gt afew from poly ones. but also have from top JC.
hahahahah.
Originally posted by Nokia-lover:ya this one i realise.
all SAFO is from JC. govt. hav the mindset that poly student are not that smart.
but i know SMS & LSA gt afew from poly ones. but also have from top JC.
hahahahah.
thats y the topic... farmer versus scholar... (dark horse versus white horse)...
we are farmers :((
Originally posted by Nokia-lover:we are farmers :((
not only saf... the whole govt civil service... all the ministries as well...
Originally posted by Nokia-lover:ya this one i realise.
all SAFO is from JC. govt. hav the mindset that poly student are not that smart.
but i know SMS & LSA gt afew from poly ones. but also have from top JC.
hahahahah.
You find lots of LSA, SMS and ATA from top JC because even in top JC, 80% of top JC students become mediocre after A levels. Most also end up like the same farmers as those who don't go to top JC or elite sec school.
If you think about it, majority of elite sec school students and top JC students also end up in the same universities (normally local) and same places in life as those who chose to go to neighbourhood schools or poly. in a top JC, only a very tiny percentage of less than 1% are the creme de la creme.
This means going to poly doesn't mean that you are any less than someoen who goes to JC. Dun need to say normal JC. Even in top JC, a sizeable number end up doing courses like unpopular so-called dumping grounds like science, arts and social science, end up in local unniversity, and they also end up the same place in life as those who went to poly. In the workforce, they all also work side and side and in same place in life.
okay, but is the diff between SAFO & SMS really big, or jus quite small?
Originally posted by Nokia-lover:okay, but is the diff between SAFO & SMS really big, or jus quite small?
From what I know in the SAF, only OS is considered scholar.
gahmen itself says that its the most prestigious after PS. http://www.mindef.gov.sg/scholarship/safos_intro.asp. SAFOS is PSC. SMS is not. And service chiefs blah blah all SAFOS, and of cos the SAFOS perm secs, deputy secs in ministries, they are CEOs of stat boards and GLCs,.and another thing if you r older and know abt its past recipients, where they go after SAF and many times, even before they hit 45, and also the publicity of people like He Ruimin, well yah. Our own PM is a SAFOS. so there.
I also notice SAFOS given out very few, and a lot of SMS are given out and is even subdivided into dunno what psychology, engineering and SMS (girls) what not categories.
Originally posted by Nokia-lover:okay, but is the diff between SAFO & SMS really big, or jus quite small?
To put it into context, SAFOS is the military equivalent of the OMS (Overseas Merit Scholarship) and together with SPFOS (Singapore Police Force Overseas Scholarship), they form the 3 highest tier of scholarships in Singapore. You can't be a President's Scholar without being either.
In the military context, SAFOS' CEP(Current Estimated Potential) is all the way to service chief and defence chief level. SMS and MTA (Military Training Award or now known as SAS(Military)) are all the way up to BG (except for SMS(Women) that is) even though most of the generals are SAFOS because there are simply not enough general ranks to go around. A realistic CEP for SMS will be COL, around brigade or formation commader at most.
Now you might think that SMS is pretty big in SAF judging by its CEP. It must be balanced with the police and civilian equivalents. They are SGS(Singapore Government Scholarship)-Open and SGS-SPF.
There are fundamentally 2 differences between these 3:
1) SMS is the only scholarship other than SAFOS, OMS and SPFOS that offers you full salary during your course of study although your allowance is lower than SAFOS
2) SMS is not administered jointly with PSC, unlike SGS-SPF. SMS is wholly administered by SAF with no dual track in the civil service. However, it is common to find former SMS scholars being seconded to Government-Linked Companies (GLCs) upon exit of service.
Well that's fundamentally the facts about SMS. I can confidently tell you that these information are the most current as of this year because I have been offered SMS (rejected it due personal reasons) and I have friends who are holders of the above-mentioned scholars.
As for scholarship in the SAF, when it comes down to the choice of accepting it or not, it really depends on your passion for the organisation. There's no hard and fast rule for everyone. Touch your heart and read your mind. The answer is likely to be in either.