RIP: RSAF Cadet Clifton Lam Jia Hao - 11 June 2008
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the oct might have suffered from heat stroke..
this tekong recruit is probably due to his body not being used to physical activities.
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wo
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Originally posted by Fatum:
I think they kinda give up on you if you're over a certain BMI ..... it's not worth their trouble ...
during my time there are 3 different levels of obese.
all with different training programs.
no matter how fat, i'm sure u can walk!!! unless you're like the fat dude who can't get out of his seat, then that one you'll be charged for not turning up during enlistment already.
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Originally posted by stellazio:
this tekong recruit is probably due to his body not being used to physical activities.
dude, its walking.
not jogging in step and the sergeant yelling at you to sing songs.
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Sigh......so fast. Too fast.
RIP
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Originally posted by Fatum:
so it's really the MOE's fault then eh .....
they procrastinate nipping health issues in the bud, by issuing long term MCs to tubs of lard ... and then leaves the army to handle the warm buckets of shit when shit happens ....
neways, the recruit's BMI's below 30 I believe .. and certainly, the OCT shouldn't be unfit ......
perhaps what they should really do, is to give the screening MO's a good spanking .... they were the ones who cleared these two chaps in the first place ...
but wait, sometimes you can only declare health problems/ hazards tat you know you have... those tat you've no idea abt, no one knows even during e med checkup.
though there can be e minority, 'taking chances' by clearing pre-enlistee
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haiz.. sad to see this kind of news..
before incident happen: soldier complain training too tough...
govt reply sumthing like it is neccessasy for our fitness..
after incident happen: govt say sumthing like they will investigate the training procedures and make changes if neccessary...
is it always things have to happen den ppl will care and look into it? when nothing happen, ppl juz find excuses to shove the issue away?
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from a logical point of view, of course accidents have to happen before the govt looks into the matter. no accident = no one sees it as a problem = no justification to look into the matter
the accident occured while walking, and every trainee is expected to be able to walk (duh). also mentioned by kopiosatu, no matter how obese the trainee is, he should be able to walk if not he wont be enlisted at all. furthermore this should be a one-off incident and isnt a major problem worth looking really deep into and changing the whole training routine for.
im not saying that recruit andrew cheah's death is insignificant, but it was a one-off accident and does not represent a problem in the training procedure, and even more so not a reason to dissolve NS.
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even footballers who train everyday can just die in the middle of a match..
Remember Antonio Puerta, Marc Vivien-Foe?? these guys are much more fitter and have a much more healthy lifestyle than most of the kids here in singapore... and still, such incidents happen...
Also, not all defects can be discovered during the pre-ns check-up.... it's not a comprehensive medical examination, hence many hard to discover defects can all slip through...
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i must remind u guys that although it's just walking, there's stil sbo helmet rifle plus it's long 4.. thus making it more strenuous den normal walking.. and if the sun is hot, more jialat..
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Originally posted by purpledragon84:
i must remind u guys that although it's just walking, there's stil sbo helmet rifle plus it's long 4.. thus making it more strenuous den normal walking.. and if the sun is hot, more jialat..
ah yes .... you're right of course ....
have you got a penis by the way ? ... just wondering ...
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Originally posted by purpledragon84:
i must remind u guys that although it's just walking, there's stil sbo helmet rifle plus it's long 4.. thus making it more strenuous den normal walking.. and if the sun is hot, more jialat..
there is only PT kit for obese batch brisk walking.
its not a route march
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
to add on to my previous post, after 2 death of increasing rank, who would we be seeing next? colonel? BG?
and IMO, i don't think obese people should be made to run at all. mild obese maybe, but those BMI over 30, if they run sure have problems.
in school, those obese people with bmi over 30 are usually given long term mc for PE, and that means that they probably have not ran for quite some time, years even.
in ns, they go make them run 2.4km, etc, sure kill the hell out of them, especially when they have not ran even half that distance, for years.
and regarding medical screening, i don't think it is done throughly enough. they will only note down any medical problem if the person mention it. I'm sure for most of us, we wouldn't know about any non-obvious medical condition ourselves.
Totally agree to your last para. It's like I failed my last IPPT window, so made to do RT. Run and run also can't pass. Just last month, due to a chest pain and discomfort in breathing while playing basketball, which eventually led me to see a doc, it turns out that there's some abnormality in my heartbeat! I was thinking, "Heng ah! Didn't collaspe while doing RT!". Now waiting for checkup at National Heart Centre.
I think most of the NSmen went through RT without proper medical screening.
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hmm.. 5 year cycle
wasn't it 5 years ago when the spate of deaths happened?
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Originally posted by Ponders:
hmm.. 5 year cycle
wasn't it 5 years ago when the spate of deaths happened?
its just Teo Chee Hean
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Some minor "defects" within us are likely to be ignored simply cause we wont think of it or it never affected us at all during our daily lives. Glad that Yamizi found out that he had abnormal heartbeat before anything major comes out of it in future. Guess these kind of things we will never know... just be more careful of personal health, do regualr checkups... thats the best we can do
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Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:
so shiok. 3 days no PT. 3 days enough to review meh?
lol... Still how we pray for CAT 1 every morning during BMT....
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Originally posted by MeepokBoy:
Some minor "defects" within us are likely to be ignored simply cause we wont think of it or it never affected us at all during our daily lives. Glad that Yamizi found out that he had abnormal heartbeat before anything major comes out of it in future. Guess these kind of things we will never know... just be more careful of personal health, do regualr checkups... thats the best we can do
I had never done any ECG in my life or whatsoever. Which is the point that I had mentioned, SAF should review their medical screening rather that physical training. I think physical training was already reviewed during the previous deaths. So the relevant authorities should actuall consider the possiblility of other contributing factors.
I think another forummer had mentioned, something about exposing medically unconditioned person to full combat training. How sia like that?
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I think SAF is aware of unconditioned persons to combat training. Isn't that why they emphasize on progressive training during the BMT. They let you walk 2km and so on before they let you do the 24km route march. Anyway this physical strain that causes deaths is not only confined to the SAF. It also happens to very fit personnel taking part in marathons where they suddenly collapse. It just happens.
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Originally posted by gutripper:
I think SAF is aware of unconditioned persons to combat training. Isn't that why they emphasize on progressive training during the BMT. They let you walk 2km and so on before they let you do the 24km route march. Anyway this physical strain that causes deaths is not only confined to the SAF. It also happens to very fit personnel taking part in marathons where they suddenly collapse. It just happens.
Erm, that's why I mentioned 'medically unconditioned'.
Medical and physical fit are very different thing altogether. Physical fitness can be gradually trained. However, medical fitness, say a soldier has a weaker kidney, physical or military training provided in the Army is not going to help him to acquire a stronger kidney.
I was refering to medical screening, not physical screening, which is already commonly determined by our NAPFA test prior to our enlistments.
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Originally posted by kopiosatu:
wow. 2nd scramble ever for the SP over there
then 1st time is when and for what?anyway... wasted sia... future pilot leh... bright future... can earn big money... sighz.....
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Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):
then 1st time is when and for what?anyway... wasted sia... future pilot leh... bright future... can earn big money... sighz.....
1st time... we managed to save the guy
it was last year but i can't remember for what but i know we saved the guy.
i might have calculated wrongly, its probably the 3rd time for the OCT
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RIP
i think these incidents, no matter how closely spaced they are, are still random and separate incidents..
nevertheless. good to have MINDEF suspend all trg for 3 days. this will (hopefully) give the public some reassurance that things will be looked into.
Our young men ( me included, a long long time ago) have faithfully served the country, so I hope a very thorough investigation is conducted into the unfortunate demise of 2 young men, and see how we can best move fwd.
And I must say, SAF training is still relatively safe, as compared to the demands, safety levels (both phyisical and mental) placed on soldiers from other countries.
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http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/353695/1/.html
Officers undergo enhanced physical checks prior to jungle training in Brunei
By Imelda Saad, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 12 June 2008 2124 hrsSINGAPORE : Singapore's armed forces have been sending cadet officers overseas as an essential part of training to build their confidence.
Officers are sent to the jungles of the Temburong district in Brunei several times a year for their orientation training.
Before their jungle training, officers are required to undergo a fitness regime. It involves a detailed assessment on the officer's medical history as well as other medical checks. Trainees also go through endurance runs and other physical conditioning activities.
There are also thorough briefings and safety checks on equipment used in the training. Medics will also check on the trainees midway through their jungle survival course to assess their mental and physical well-being.
An eight-day jungle survival course in Brunei will involve an air crash simulation and is carried out in three stages.
The first stage is the preparation training where officers are briefed on jungle survival skills like how to trap water, how to skin a quail and identify edible plants.
Then comes the part where trainees learn to "live off the land". At this stage, trainees are dropped off in the jungle and trained to survive on their own for three days.
The third stage is navigation training where cadets, in small groups of 6 to 7, embark on a 4-kilometre march back to camp.
It was apparently at the third stage that 20-year-old Office Cadet Clifton Lam Jia Hao collapsed while undergoing jungle orientation training in Brunei. A pilot trainee with the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), he died one-and-a-half hours after he collapsed, despite efforts by medics to resuscitate him en route to the hospital. - CNA /ls
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Originally posted by gutripper:
I think SAF is aware of unconditioned persons to combat training. Isn't that why they emphasize on progressive training during the BMT. They let you walk 2km and so on before they let you do the 24km route march. Anyway this physical strain that causes deaths is not only confined to the SAF. It also happens to very fit personnel taking part in marathons where they suddenly collapse. It just happens.
i don't think they check thoroughly enough during the pre-enlistment checkup. it was kind of sloppily carried out, checking for only common medical conditions.for many people, that is their first "full body checkup", and they might not know of any medical condition they might have. i have a friend who lived normally for many years, even doing napfa tests, and finding out that he got 3 holes in the heart.
i'm not saying the ecg does not check out heart condition, only pointing out that many parts of the body are "neglected" in the med check.
like yamizi had mentioned, there can be problems with a person's kidneys, liver, intestines, brains etc. any of these problems can become a serious medical condition when triggered, leading to diabetes, kidney failure, etc.
also, i don't think they check for allergy during med check. 1 syringe of blood certainly ain't enough to test for so many things.
about bones and joints problem. do they take xrays during the med check? no. yes, they do have a chest xray, but is that enough to sieve out all problems? no. a slipped or protruding disc may most likely be left out during the checkup. when it comes to route march, a protruding disc may actually detiorate into slipped disc, which is like "ouch". one of my seniors actually suffered from slipped disc during his route march, *he got downgraded after that)
but do you want to do something about it only when the problem has alr occur, and the damage irreversible (yeah, cos this concerns health, ur spinal disc isn't something you can change down and then). or do you want to do smth abt it before the problem occur?
my cousin was unaware of his kneejoint problem (the joint was wearing thin). he failed his ippt and was made to do rt, where he ran and ran and ran. it was only after he felt pain in his knees during one of his runs, that he found that his knee joint had been worn out. he now only has knee surgery to look forward to (knee joint replacement).
how do you monitor ur conditions when you don't even know about them in the first place? yes, you know that you should probably stop when ur felt chest pain, but that's a bit too late, if it is the start of a heart attack. if you have knowledge of any medical condition you might have, it is easier to monitor and control ur condition. e.g. you know u got irregular heartbeat, and you can do smth abt it, like jog at a slower pace etc.
so, i think that full med check should be conducted by private enterprise, when they really check for everything.otherwise, saf should step up the extensiveness of its med check procedure.