Why NS? [ Pre-Enlist POV ]
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TS, please wake up your idea. I for one, will be enlisting in another 2 weeks and frankly speaking, I am looking forward to NS life because it's a new chapter for me in my life and learning stuff throughout the 2 years is once in a lifetime. Also, it's not just about protecting the country in terms of war so simple.
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why is the ts so afraid of death/dying in the army?there is a reason as to why the saf trains intellectually capable ppl to become medics u knw!
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HAHA. The TS doesnt sound too smart. So im thinking that his argument defeats itself. Lets just take it this way. If you're capable enough, you have the right to be self centered. Judging by what you know/have said, you're not. So NS should be fine for you. We wont be losing any talent.
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Originally posted by MohamedF:
Prespective from PNSF side... People seem to keep forgeting NS doesn't just involve army. People can end up in SPF and SCDF too...
I'm not they guy protecting Singapore in times of war, but in my POV, we still need NSmen to patrol the streets of Singapore. Most people in Singapore would not know what is going on outside their own lives. The reality is, there is a constant war against crime in Singapore to keep Singapore streets, coast lines and key installiations safe.
Everyday, one patrol car can get up to 40 calls per section. Depending on regulars alone to take care of these calls and Singapore will become like Malaysia. Crime everywhere and bad guys out number the police. NSmen play a VERY IMPORTANT role in supporting the regulars so that the work is spread out and becomes manageable.
On the Plus side, PNSF gets to see Singapore in a whole new light that normal citizens wouldn't normally see. And catching the bad guys is always a thrill.
But on the minus side, its a lot of work. And the member of public is no help either. Constantly scrutinizing us.
Its a Thankless job, but someone have to do it.
if the TS can't see the neccessity of wearing green .... I don't think he'd be able to see the neccessity of wearing blue or grey either .....
if he wouldn't even want to defend his own, you think he'd want to risk his life and limb to keep peace on the streets or save some other people's ass in a fire ? .... bloody unlikely neh ? ....
neways, good job you mata boys ... for us who wore green, it's sometimes a bit difficult to see the rationale or the neccesity of what we did .... but you guys can see a direct and immediate impact of what you do on the society straight away ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
if the TS can't see the neccessity of wearing green .... I don't think he'd be able to see the neccessity of wearing blue or grey either .....
if he wouldn't even want to defend his own, you think he'd want to risk his life and limb to keep peace on the streets or save some other people's ass in a fire ? .... bloody unlikely neh ? ....
neways, good job you mata boys ... for us who wore green, it's sometimes a bit difficult to see the rationale or the neccesity of what we did .... but you guys can see a direct and immediate impact of what you do on the society straight away ...
Can see your point...
hopefully he'll change... -
Wow.. TS... WOW...
Quantity over quality? Maybe in the past, but now? Look at America for god sake... You must be crazy to think of that now..
Who says we don't stand a chance? Every bullets not fired is every shot missed. You don't know untill you try it out.
Not having NS will mean a great decrease in our defence force. Scrape that, not having NS will mean no defence force for Singapore. If our own citizens who live off the luxury of the country yet refuce to serve to protect his own motherland, then who will? Mercernaries? Regulars? Our regulars will be spread so thin that any each of them will have to kill nearly a hundred soldiers each before they die in order to bring some hope for us.
Every male citizen will have to complete his NS before he can enter the working world. (With disregards to some exceptions) If they can fill the 2 years gap when they enter the working world, why can't you?
The death ratio of people dying in Singapore's NS is relatively low already. As long as you follow the instructions SMARTLY and know what's the limit for everything, you'll do fine. If you can't handle NS, forget bout handling the working world.
NS provides Singapore a defence force strong enough to deter invaders into attacking Singapore. Look at it from a more simple POV for a simple minded guy like you, would you rather slap someone with a knife on his hand, or someone who is empty handed?I'm really wondering what have you been learning for the past decade of studies..
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I think can stop discussion already... TS went and cut his balls to avoid NS after page 2...
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
Loss-to-kill ratio good????
LOL, some people mistake last resort for first solution.There is a difference between driving a nail into the wall with a hammer or your head, both might work but one idea will hurt more.
Guerilla warfare as a first resort is patently a silly idea for the basic reason it means that you have to be already defeated to get to that state. And worse it rests on the faulty assumption that all militaries are afriad of taking losses or doing something extreme and unethical to solve the issue of insurgency.
Do you think Guerilla warfare will stop the looting, plundering, rape and what have you not? To do that you need a conventional force to drive away the enemy and go toe to toe with him. Exploding an IED here and there or launching scattered ambushes here and there simply will not work.
Do you want to place the security of all your assets and loved ones on the idea that when an enemy attacks us we're just going to let them come in and go guerilla on them on a small island like Singapore?
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Join The Arena!
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
LOL, some people mistake last resort for first solution.There is a difference between driving a nail into the wall with a hammer or your head, both might work but one idea will hurt more.
Guerilla warfare as a first resort is patently a silly idea for the basic reason it means that you have to be already defeated to get to that state. And worse it rests on the faulty assumption that all militaries are afriad of taking losses or doing something extreme and unethical to solve the issue of insurgency.
Do you think Guerilla warfare will stop the looting, plundering, rape and what have you not? To do that you need a conventional force to drive away the enemy and go toe to toe with him. Exploding an IED here and there or launching scattered ambushes here and there simply will not work.
Do you want to place the security of all your assets and loved ones on the idea that when an enemy attacks us we're just going to let them come in and go guerilla on them on a small island like Singapore?
first answer to ur previous qsn. what we are lacking in horizontal landspace, we make up for it in vertical landspace. do they have so much resources to send enough men to search all the units (housing units, building units, shops) all over singapore? bear in mind that these searchers will also be subjected from ambush during their search.
Also, yes, they will kill. but, there's no point in controlling a piece of empty land with no subjects to rule over.
with today's media's omnipotency, little news are left out to the world. the media will report any enemy losses to gargantuan proportion. soon, there will be public pressure back home calling for the withdrawal of their troops. enemy soldiers are also human. they have familes back home to care for.
coupled with the fact that most countries nowadays, (at least in the surrounding region), are democratic, (with the exception of brunei, but they are unlikely to invade singapore at any time). any unpopular action will see to the government being voted out of office, just like the republicans under bush.
so what about the high loss to kill ratio? if enemy bomb singapore, just one bomb alone can kill hundreds(i'm not talking about atomic bomb).
look at sichuan. one earthquake, their 5-7 stories buildings collapse, killing hundreds per building. here, we have 12-25 stories HDB flats. imagine what would happen if they collapse? (don't tell me that HDB designed these flats to be bomb-proof, when they already failed to include lifts at every floor in their designs.)
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
first answer to ur previous qsn. what we are lacking in horizontal landspace, we make up for it in vertical landspace. do they have so much resources to send enough men to search all the units (housing units, building units, shops) all over singapore? bear in mind that these searchers will also be subjected from ambush during their search.
Also, yes, they will kill. but, there's no point in controlling a piece of empty land with no subjects to rule over.
What makes you think they are into Singapore to rule? The question is what if a radical regime ever comes into power that is genocidically hostile towards Singapore?You only need to take a look at what can happen in Africa, Serbia and what happened here in the 1950s to get an idea of how quickly politics can change within a space of a couple of years to something disasterous.
If the idea is (to dream one up), lets say some regime with rabidly anti-chinese idealogy takes over in the region and Singapore becomes the target, the idea is not to rule Singapore but simply exterminate then you'll be in trouble if your game plan is to be an insurgent.
Insurgency does not work on an enemy that is bent on destroying you and your people.
Problem is it takes more then just a couple of years to build up your military to something credible.
What makes you think the SAF's doctrine is to camp out in Singapore and wait for the enemy instead of taking the fight to them at the outbreak of hostilities? In terms of combined arms and mobility the SAF gears its forces towards mobile offensive warfare, and not static defensive actions. If the fight comes to our soil then we are already in trouble.
with today's media's omnipotency, little news are left out to the world. the media will report any enemy losses to gargantuan proportion. soon, there will be public pressure back home calling for the withdrawal of their troops. enemy soldiers are also human. they have familes back home to care for.
coupled with the fact that most countries nowadays, (at least in the surrounding region), are democratic, (with the exception of brunei, but they are unlikely to invade singapore at any time). any unpopular action will see to the government being voted out of office, just like the republicans under bush.
Do you think a regime like Burma will care about taking losses or even about the media? In fact you've chosen only one example to build your case on, and that's the Americans when the vast majority of armies outside of europe are hardly like that.
You are making the common mistake of wishful thinking in warfare, where instead of decisively defeating your enemy one resorts to thinking that if so and so ambigious conditions were sastified the enemy will lose heart and give up.
so what about the high loss to kill ratio? if enemy bomb singapore, just one bomb alone can kill hundreds(i'm not talking about atomic bomb).
look at sichuan. one earthquake, their 5-7 stories buildings collapse, killing hundreds per building. here, we have 12-25 stories HDB flats. imagine what would happen if they collapse? (don't tell me that HDB designed these flats to be bomb-proof, when they already failed to include lifts at every floor in their designs.)
The question is, why even allow them to reach you and bomb you in the first place? They can do so precisely IF you don't even try to defend yourself from such threats.
And how do you defend yourself? By sitting around and lamenting the fact that is it a hard task to do or actually putting your money where your mouth is and coming up with a credible military that can prevent this from happening in the first place?
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Originally posted by Paradogs:
I'm one year away from entering NS, so I may speak without experience. However, I'm not totally unaware of what happens inside. My brother's serving NS, and once he blacked-out from fatigue and landed in hospital. Realistically, these incidents may cause a life, and a life does not come back as though in video games.
Chances of mishaps happening to me though little, is not insignificant. Moreover, with the 2 years spent building my combat and survival skills, which does not benefit me in any way in the society, I would be already making my first 100k. I know that's overly ambitious, but compared with the remaining 13 billion people in the world, I have already lost the head start.
most probably... even if you are a uni grad, chances of earning 100k in 2 yrs are quite slim... unless you got yourself a very high paying job.
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hence the gahmen is making us relevant to the world esp US so that our "friendly" neighbours think twice before trying to ka-jiao us. Having many US firms here, having many FTs here helps - and of course, offering our naval facilities and air bases to them helps. humptump us and you humptump US...
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I am enlisting in july 10 and frankly speaking, I cant wait to get into NS! Though i heard lots of negative comments from my bro, I was (and still is) super excited about army life. Well, I believe there are lots of things to be learned. Come to think about it, we should feel privileged to be given such an opportunity to serve our country! We can make new friends, experienced new kind of life, learn how to use different weapons, understand the importance of spending valuable time with our families, take these 2 years and carefully plan out our futures! Of cos, nothing is perfect, NS will have its pros and cons, but if you were to be more optimistic, life will be much better huh. Rather than complaining abt NS life, i tink we shld think of how to maximise the benefits that we can achieve from this valuable 2 years.
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Originally posted by red_amoeba:
hence the gahmen is making us relevant to the world esp US so that our “friendly” neighbours think twice before trying to ka-jiao us. Having many US firms here, having many FTs here helps – and of course, offering our naval facilities and air bases to them helps.
humptump us and you humptump US…
That is really more for deterrence than anything else-- when push comes to shove, the US cannot deploy assets fast enough to support a land war, and will probably not fight anyway because of their current entanglements.Ultimately, the defence of Singapore rests on the SAF.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
What makes you think they are into Singapore to rule? The question is what if a radical regime ever comes into power that is genocidically hostile towards Singapore?You only need to take a look at what can happen in Africa, Serbia and what happened here in the 1950s to get an idea of how quickly politics can change within a space of a couple of years to something disasterous.
If the idea is (to dream one up), lets say some regime with rabidly anti-chinese idealogy takes over in the region and Singapore becomes the target, the idea is not to rule Singapore but simply exterminate then you'll be in trouble if your game plan is to be an insurgent.
Insurgency does not work on an enemy that is bent on destroying you and your people.
Problem is it takes more then just a couple of years to build up your military to something credible.
What makes you think the SAF's doctrine is to camp out in Singapore and wait for the enemy instead of taking the fight to them at the outbreak of hostilities? In terms of combined arms and mobility the SAF gears its forces towards mobile offensive warfare, and not static defensive actions. If the fight comes to our soil then we are already in trouble.
Do you think a regime like Burma will care about taking losses or even about the media? In fact you've chosen only one example to build your case on, and that's the Americans when the vast majority of armies outside of europe are hardly like that.
You are making the common mistake of wishful thinking in warfare, where instead of decisively defeating your enemy one resorts to thinking that if so and so ambigious conditions were sastified the enemy will lose heart and give up.
The question is, why even allow them to reach you and bomb you in the first place? They can do so precisely IF you don't even try to defend yourself from such threats.
And how do you defend yourself? By sitting around and lamenting the fact that is it a hard task to do or actually putting your money where your mouth is and coming up with a credible military that can prevent this from happening in the first place?
If the idea is (to dream one up), lets say some regime with rabidly anti-chinese idealogy, IS ONE OF THE MOST LIKEY REASONS THAT THEY WILL ATTACK, YES I AGREE with you, good point..... i think they have elements of it now ok, rem the anti chinese riots? theses are signsssssss
But in reply to your previous point, singapore can't attack, to conquer a place, with your strongly recommended ' attack as the best defense strategy, it will not work,
In war, to conquer a area, other than the most difficult way of ' pushing beyond the enemy line', the after math of retaining control of KL ( lets say KL) is the most important part. In warfare, they actually have the amount of personel stationed to land area RATIO, to be able to successfully control that area. We dun have the amount of people, and if we employ all the man we have( KL too big), singapore becomes a paper basket to be easily crushed, then taking care of the man we have in their land would be fairly easy without support........................
even if we can successfully control KL, by some miracle......
due to the size of the countries around us, they can easily shift their HQ, so many states to shift, so much land, how are you ever, i mean ever gonna hit them on their head? in the short time of the war? before singapore implode?
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
Loss-to-kill ratio good????depends on how you do it, yeah, can make 'net profit'
if you do sucide bombing, then you can take out like 20-30 pax in crowded areas, with a iron ball bearing loaded bomb to increase the AOE ( area of effect)
Its really not too bad, economical also, a typical bomb suit cost less than a M16 and its confirm cool looking too :), POWER, you end in a trail of blaze
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haha pwned. who gives a shit
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Dude, i feel like u too b4 i entered the army. But wat to do? WE have to serve man. U might b right that we may not have the chance, but at least u can hold a gun and protect your families.
I know its hell man, but no choice
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we where got dun stand a chance? we stand quite a chance. pre-emptive strike not good enough chance? juz look at the japanese...so small, yet they were able to take over asia. numbers isnt the only impt thing in war. surprise and might is. combine both nicely, and you get a formidable force. that's why our SAF is synonymous with chilli padi. enemy think its small, like a little red dot...but they know that if they take a bite they'd suffer. and in another way, the SAF is like a deterrence too. anyway, down to the basics...if you dun defend your livelihood, your family and your property, den u want who to defend? your sister? i'd rather go out there, and eat shit for 2 damn years and keep the security up. Israel is a good example. their reservists did a hell of a job defending themselves when they were invaded the second time by surprise during their kosher (equivalent to the ramadan for muslims). if it werent for the reserves, u think they cld muster strength to push back the multiple invaders? never underestimate the will of a man desperately trying to fend off murderers trying to butcher his wife and children. and if u add 2 million of such men ard...u'll haf quite a formidable force. anyway i understand there's this notion about "if war comes, i run lor." Yeah, pls tell me run where? all flights wld haf ceased, your property and money are here. where on earth wld u run to? that leaves us with no choice but bloody fight it out right?
ok lets not be harsh on the TS. he is only a boy. he is definitely scared of injuring himself, but well who isnt? well TS, when the time comes...whatever happens, take it easy. there are counsellors there, you can talk to them if u feel mentally stressed out. physically wise yes u may get injured, but you most probably wun die. the injuries arent very complicated, unless you go to the CDO or some siong units, but chances are...you won't. relax. the SAF understands a conscript force isnt like a regular force. u are there not by will. and they will try to accomodate u. so relax ok? if u feel damn stressed out, always got people to talk to. right? well...the best thing u can do if u really fear alot for your safety...try screwing up in bmt. keep shooting ur fren's target board. point the gun at ur instructor by "accident", fail ur SOC and IPPT, be the worse soldier in the entire cohort and piss your frens silly. you will be posted to a very relaxed job after BMT.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
most probably... even if you are a uni grad, chances of earning 100k in 2 yrs are quite slim... unless you got yourself a very high paying job.
yeah like being a 22 y/o steve jobs. haha! -
looking at all your posts, i feel so guilty for downgrading temporarily from pes A to C2L1. i was supposed to be enlisting into commandos on 11th july but now i'm out due to an injury in my kneecap. my parents say its not worth it to risk my moblity juz for the red beret or what people say honour and glory. its true that fatalities do happen in the army but what i think TS should be worried abt is sustaining an injury. i feel that onli the really suey siao ones will die in army la. u can die anywhere in the world not necessarily in the force. the army personnel should take better care of our soldiers and enforce safety and stuff la...other than that, we as soldiers should also take care of not only ourselves but also others. i will definitely upgrade to pes A or B after 3 months if possible. no more red beret for me in this lifetime though.