Why NS? [ Pre-Enlist POV ]
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Don wan to suffer? Don wan to serve NS? Get yrself a skirt...dat the only way..or maybe a ops in thailand may help too..U still left 1 year to decide...do it b4 it too late...haiz...Without this country i wonder u r farming now like indian in their country or here typing rubbish about death when u in service..Stay at home and i make sure u live till old age..Nowaday kids really too good life..i wonder y govt bring down the service periods..they should make it a 3 year service....
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TS is just being gay la. im a clerk when i was serving my NS, i understand the importance cuz i see SG as my home. your bro blacked out cuz he wasn't physically fit then.
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some replies mentioned the Police and Ambulance.
Don't forget there are NSFs inside too, doing their duties and risking themselves to save and protect.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
How exactly are you going to cut off the sealanes or airspace if there is the constant threat of AMMRAMS from Vipers and Harpoons from stealth Frigates coming to make life difficult for you?To seal off sealanes and air space means not only having to face the wrath of the international community, but also the RSN and the RSAF coming in to reopen these lines of communication, at the end of the day unless we have no credible airforce or navy trying to seal off is simply not easy to do.
And our neighbours know this, at the end of the day you are going to need ground forces to enforce certain things.
BTW, cutting off water before the contract expires is a good enough casus beli for open war liao, do you think they are really willing to do so despite decades of threatening?
FIRSTLY, you have to learn how to read a map, and look carelfully at singapore's physical location.
Ok, we are literally WRAPPED by msia and indonesia, WITHOUT ANY allied hinderhand to provide any form of support when our north/south sides are sealed.
Its fairly simple, as long as all goods (READ FOOD) are not allowed to pass by malaysia and indonesia, and the straits of malaysia is sealed, we are as dead as rock. Its not difficult considering the two countries surrounding singapore( they are close friends) , AND ITS FAIR GAME if they stop trade with us, even BEFORE the war. Slowly grind us off.
currently more than 50% of your water comes from msia, water becomes a first issue, and food second, without much farms in singapore to be self sustianable on food.
since you said that we have a credible airforce, do you know exactly the strength of our airplanes and weapons?
these are the numbers, the navy had a fleet of 24 ships, including six corvettes and six missile craft, and two Challenger submarines. The air force operating 126 combat aircraft and 28 armed helicopters.
And out of these 126, only a percentage is serviceable, know what they mean?
i agree that in terms of quality, we have good weapons, but we lack amount, thus overall, the defense is still weak.
I would rather pray if they really cut off our water supply when they war with us, If they dun, some poison over, would kills us faster.
Dun sulk, chemical warfare is fair game too. In wars, they do everything to win
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
I think you are just seeing one side of the coin, because insurgent attacks make the news but insurgents getting killed in the majority of failed attempts do far less often.
Are you sure you really want to fight as an insurgent? The kill ratios are always lopsided, for every IED planted in Iraq that sucessfully kills an American soldier many more are defused and several insurgents are killed.
Also, you are assuming the enemy controlling us will be like the US- ie. they have some notion of human rights (at least their media will hold them to it), and not some other army that uses more heavy-handed approaches towards such things.
Imagine a regime like the junta now in Buma taking over that reacts to any insurgent operation by killing 50 locals for every soldier killed by the guerillas.
Also unlike a large country where there is a lot of space for an insurgency to hide, Singapore is a small nation that can be controlled and contained, trying to have an insurgency is an extremely difficult task.
Also being guerillas mean the line between combatant and noncombatant is blurred, this also means that your family will more often then not find itself in the line of fire or treated as if they were combatants.
While the Black Hawk Down incident focuses on Somalis driving off the Americans, one needs to realize that the flip side was that the kill ratio was about 50:1 and over 1000 Somalis died (many of them non combatants) for just 17 Americans who were not equipped to fight a pitched battled with them anyway, and had the Americans actually decided to go in full force, it would be over.
I think it will be a mistake to assume all armies will fight like the US, that is they are afraid of taking too many losses, if you fight with a regime that is just in it to rape plunder and kill and to whom their own soldiers are just pawns, guerilla warfare is a lot less effective or even counterproductive.
But at the end of the day, fighting a guerilla battle means we already lost the war. Even if we drive the enemy out with such tactics they can return to their country after laying waste to ours in a scorched earth approach, leaving us with nothing left.
As I said, if you think an insurgency/ guerilla warfare is the way to go for us... you've been watching way too much CNN.
its sad, you dun know much about warfare, but guerilla battle are effective, due to their morale damaging effects on enemies and since its in layman's term a sneak attack, loss to kill ratios are good, thats why the americans are still having trouble in iraq, AFTER defeating them....
Thus the main point would not be the 'insurgents getting killed in the majority of failed attempts" being your point..........
HOWEVER, the real reason that it will not be useful in singapore context as guerillas warfares are ONLY EFFECTIVE in big countries, where theres plenty of land for guerillas to hide and carry out attacks in the dark, and playing hide and seek with the army, In singapore with a area of 72KM X 36KM area, WHERE CAN YOU HIDE? lol
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the best way is to have a good foreign policy and GOOD RELATIONS with them, and not continuously fuck them up, like what we are doing now.........
although we can't 100% prevent them from fucking us up, but, playing hardball with them will only get us killed faster, lure their investments, make it uneconomical for them if they fuck us up.
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An analogy would be this,
OK you hate this fat kid on the street, with a fucked up face, you have long wanted to hit him hard on his face to own him, but you can't as he brings your your daily candy bar and has owe you money.
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snowfoxx very well said..in terms of strategy..sg very diff to defend..rite out in the open surrounded by people who dont like us..its like placing a piece of meat between 2 tigers..our ns should not be learning warfare only..but also how to be good diplomats..learn how to ensure how to keep m'sia from discon our water..play soccer with them..understab them by hoarding investors and trade with them for resources be it unfair or fair..so far lees are doing a pretty ok job at this cuz will get them rich..
those who tink serving ns should b learnin war so they become man is like a kid thinkin be a gangster makes them manly..now everything about $ and self interest..u 1 person 1 gun,some mags can kill how many enemies? learning financial warfare,psychological warfare and strategies are more impt now..times have changed to subtle attackin instead of all out war..
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Austria, Mexico, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Israel, the Republic of China (Taiwan), Russia, Singapore, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland all have compulsory conscription systems... Why do you think it makes a Singapore citizen reservists so special?
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Just serve and dun complain and your life will be much easier.. There's alot of reason not to serve NS but there's one reason for u to do so and that is cos goverment want u too and its enough
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TS don't you have friends who finished NS?
are they all bulked up and skinny asses who have rats all over them
true that almost everyone are glad that NS is finally over when they ORDed but nevertheless the times they had inside are unforgettable and once in a lifetime.
so look at NS with an open-mind and not with an impression that you're going in to get yourself killed.
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Originally posted by Chris1988:
TS don't you have friends who finished NS?
are they all bulked up and skinny asses who have rats all over them
true that almost everyone are glad that NS is finally over when they ORDed but nevertheless the times they had inside are unforgettable and once in a lifetime.
so look at NS with an open-mind and not with an impression that you're going in to get yourself killed.
agree ah. lol.
everyone who goes into NS sure have anxiety. but at the end of it, SHIOK AH! SO FUN!
of course the superiors are assholes, but there will always be good memories of scratching his car, and cursing him etc. =x
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Originally posted by eac:
Austria, Mexico, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Israel, the Republic of China (Taiwan), Russia, Singapore, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland all have compulsory conscription systems... Why do you think it makes a Singapore citizen reservists so special?
And the United States too. They have the Selective Service System, i.e the draft, where every American is registered at the age of 18.
It is only activated in times of urgent need, but when the button is pressed, young Americans will be called up for military service too.
"You cannot own what you cannot defend". End of story.
TS, everyone has anxieties and fears about entering into a new phase of life. But be circumspect and realise that the world is a very large place, and is more complex and diverse than just your personal interest.
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Originally posted by snowfoxx:
FIRSTLY, you have to learn how to read a map, and look carelfully at singapore's physical location.
Ok, we are literally WRAPPED by msia and indonesia, WITHOUT ANY allied hinderhand to provide any form of support when our north/south sides are sealed.
Its fairly simple, as long as all goods (READ FOOD) are not allowed to pass by malaysia and indonesia, and the straits of malaysia is sealed, we are as dead as rock. Its not difficult considering the two countries surrounding singapore( they are close friends) , AND ITS FAIR GAME if they stop trade with us, even BEFORE the war. Slowly grind us off.
currently more than 50% of your water comes from msia, water becomes a first issue, and food second, without much farms in singapore to be self sustianable on food.
since you said that we have a credible airforce, do you know exactly the strength of our airplanes and weapons?
these are the numbers, the navy had a fleet of 24 ships, including six corvettes and six missile craft, and two Challenger submarines. The air force operating 126 combat aircraft and 28 armed helicopters.
And out of these 126, only a percentage is serviceable, know what they mean?
i agree that in terms of quality, we have good weapons, but we lack amount, thus overall, the defense is still weak.
I would rather pray if they really cut off our water supply when they war with us, If they dun, some poison over, would kills us faster.
Dun sulk, chemical warfare is fair game too. In wars, they do everything to win
I think you are being overly pessimistic. I do not think for a moment that we will just sit by and do nothing if they decide to stop trade or screw us slowly in very obvious ways. Such acts are good enough for casus belli.
And yes I understand our location, but there are still ways to get about that and given lemons you make lemonade.
Firstly you need to see, what is the size of the opposing air force and navies? What matters is that you carry a larger stick then the guy opposing you.
Also numbers aside, how you play your cards is also another issue. Air forces do not fight piecemeal and the ability to fight as a cohorent whole with your AWACS, supporting your ground, and what have you not as opposed to sending up single fighters piecemeal will matter if not more at the end of the day. Currently there is no question in the region that the RSAF is currently ahead in this area.
And is the SAF's plan really to just camp in Singapore and wait for them to come, or go out and engage the enemy to capture parts of their land if they decide to do silly things like cut off the water and the like.
Unfortuntately poisioning the water supply is easier said then done, due to the huge amounts of water that are actually involved, you'll need an vast amount of chemical agents to achieve the effect due to dilution and at the end of the day it's far more practical to simply send it the old fashioned way. We are talking about several million cubic meters of water, not a well.
Ultimately you are right in saying that the SAF cannot fight a war of attrition, because in the long run we'll simply run out of resources. But if the game plan is to go downtown to the enemy with a forward defence option by capturing parts of his land to create a buffer then that is a viable game plan, and I believe "forward defence" is the main idea of the SAF.
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Originally posted by snowfoxx:
its sad, you dun know much about warfare, but guerilla battle are effective, due to their morale damaging effects on enemies and since its in layman's term a sneak attack, loss to kill ratios are good, thats why the americans are still having trouble in iraq, AFTER defeating them....
Thus the main point would not be the 'insurgents getting killed in the majority of failed attempts" being your point..........
HOWEVER, the real reason that it will not be useful in singapore context as guerillas warfares are ONLY EFFECTIVE in big countries, where theres plenty of land for guerillas to hide and carry out attacks in the dark, and playing hide and seek with the army, In singapore with a area of 72KM X 36KM area, WHERE CAN YOU HIDE? lol
That's the problem, you're assuming the enemy will be like the Americans who have their hands tied when dealing with civillians and are affected by taking losses.But guerilla warfare is far less effective against an occupying power that is willing to engage in the kind of COIN ops that the Americans will balk at, ie. killing one local family for every of their soldiers killed or simply controlling rations and food supplies to break the local populace or other worse things.
Ultimately if you talk about kill loss ratios the idea is to defend your nation and your loved ones, but if for every enemy soldier you kill you lose a local family or have other worse things happen it ultimately becomes counterproductive. Would guerilla warfare work on an enemy that behaves like the Serbs or WW2 Japanese?
The small size of Singapore is just another nail in the coffin of the whole guerilla idea.
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Originally posted by snowfoxx:
the best way is to have a good foreign policy and GOOD RELATIONS with them, and not continuously fuck them up, like what we are doing now.........
although we can't 100% prevent them from fucking us up, but, playing hardball with them will only get us killed faster, lure their investments, make it uneconomical for them if they fuck us up.
Isn't that what we are doing now in most issues?
And how are we screwing them up? Would you seriously submit to some of the demands that our neighbours are making on us, which aren't entirely rational? Ultimately international relations have their ups and downs, but bending over backwards to appease people at all times isn't the way to go. I seriously doubt you would be happy if your water utilities bill went up and down on the whim of whoever is deciding the price in Malaysia simply because we need good relations with them.
The issue is this, good relations aside at the end of the day if push comes to shove you have to be able to push pretty hard.
The whole idea of NS and the SAF is not that we can wave muscle around, but that we can take care of ourselves if things ever get too unreasonable.
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Originally posted by snowfoxx:
An analogy would be this,
OK you hate this fat kid on the street, with a fucked up face, you have long wanted to hit him hard on his face to own him, but you can't as he brings your your daily candy bar and has owe you money.
This is an incomplete analogy.
What if the fat kid decides to use the fact that he supplies your candy bar and owes you money to leverage unreasonable demands on you or make you his lackey?
Ultimately unless you want to be the lackey of the fat kid, you need to make the fat kid know that yes you supply my daily candy and owe me money but if he decides to take things too far you have the ability to make things ugly for everyone.
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
snowfoxx very well said..in terms of strategy..sg very diff to defend..rite out in the open surrounded by people who dont like us..its like placing a piece of meat between 2 tigers..our ns should not be learning warfare only..but also how to be good diplomats..learn how to ensure how to keep m'sia from discon our water..play soccer with them..understab them by hoarding investors and trade with them for resources be it unfair or fair..so far lees are doing a pretty ok job at this cuz will get them rich..
those who tink serving ns should b learnin war so they become man is like a kid thinkin be a gangster makes them manly..now everything about $ and self interest..u 1 person 1 gun,some mags can kill how many enemies? learning financial warfare,psychological warfare and strategies are more impt now..times have changed to subtle attackin instead of all out war..
Since when was times always about all out war? War is an extension of diplomacy, if certain policies cannot be resolved then war is the last option. If you are unable to play that card then the person you are playing against can, you will lose terribly.
Basically Kuwait ran out of cards to play when it played with Iraq back before the first Gulf War.
Unless we are living in a perfect world where everyone just gets along and agrees with everything, you need to know self-defence.
Hence at the end of the day you need to be able to take care of your basic needs which is when things really get to the ground and ugly.
A strong military is still needed at the end of the day. I don't know what you're thinking but our military is not used as a playing card most of the time in regional politics and it is usually our neighbours who take the slippery slope of talking about war.
A strong SAF is good for ASEAN as well, when the armed forces of all the nations work together against external threats.
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Hmm, TS seems mising 2 pages ago ? ? ? ?
Anyway, to whoever who says that this piece of land would be sorched earth due to their multi million missile probably forgot that we have Air Defence Artillery. True that ADA is no magical force field, this place wouldn't be sorched earth even by the time i load my rifle and move out.
Back to TS, b4 i enlisted, i was skinny. And now, i am still skinny (fullstop). How size change in NS is totally dependent on u, not the training regime in the 2 years. My men hit the camp gym once a few days to maintain their bodies. SAF doesn't not produce bodybuilders nor bamboos, and, personally, i haven't seen a 'over-musclar' guy around yet.Maybe i haven't seen much. ...
And letting ur brain rot, is also dependant on u. If u think sleeping, psp-ing and rotting is ur daily bunk life. Then that's it. If u force urself, to say, read a book weekly and update urself with the newspapers daily or that bring ur past textbooks/tutorials to camp and read/do/practise. Does that rot ur brain? It doesn't sound crazy, because alot of done so ... In unit, (difficult in sch cos every fked thing is standardised) there is more 'freedom' to urself. Hence, there is development of self-discipline in you, to sit down there and read/study where everyone else is either sleeping or psp-ing.
I still got 6 mths to go... And yea, like everyone else here, i didn't have a good time getting farked and facing baised or/and useless superiors. But, hey, if the time comes, without a doubt i will take a mega-claymore and blast the hell out of my enemies.
As for risking death, it probably might be true that there is a higher risk level in doing army stuff. But people can just die suddenly while running (be it in SAF or out of it). No one want to witness such cases. And for no reason, would people ask u to do life threathening (not in the case of firing live rounds) activities. If such a situation arises, refuse it. What happened to ur brother might be just an accident. (Did u find out the cause of it?) ... -
Combat-aside, NS makes you stronger physically and mentally.
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Originally posted by snowfoxx:
its sad, you dun know much about warfare, but guerilla battle are effective, due to their morale damaging effects on enemies and since its in layman's term a sneak attack, loss to kill ratios are good, thats why the americans are still having trouble in iraq, AFTER defeating them....
Thus the main point would not be the 'insurgents getting killed in the majority of failed attempts" being your point..........
HOWEVER, the real reason that it will not be useful in singapore context as guerillas warfares are ONLY EFFECTIVE in big countries, where theres plenty of land for guerillas to hide and carry out attacks in the dark, and playing hide and seek with the army, In singapore with a area of 72KM X 36KM area, WHERE CAN YOU HIDE? lol
Loss-to-kill ratio good???? -
Ns good. the food cook house now privatized outsourced u are served breakfast lunch dinner and nitsnack if got exercise overnite. some cook house aunties very chio and aunties got daugthers very chio. nites off can go geyland eat chick rice. combat ration shiok best made in malaysia. now the combat ratio i really missed them dun know got change menu or not. the warratn officer mdm also got pretty daugthers and your OC's wife and daugthers can be fuked.
NS good arh
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Originally posted by Fatum:
while you get shafted by UMNO in your country .... did you read what I posted ? ....
but hey ... of course ... you wouldn't understand .... you are here .... enjoying life under our protection, neh ? ....
Unfortunately, for your oh-so-precious Singaporean ego, I am in neither country.I concede the point that Malaysian NS is much shittier than sg NS. However, I wonder who gave the UMNO idiots the idea in the first place.
Singapore's system may be better than Malaysia's. That's like being smarter than Bush. Malaysia discriminates against non-Malays, Singapore discriminates against citizens. Not a whole lot of difference.
If you still consider a place where you're enslaved as your home, you are so deluded.
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Originally posted by rooki:
Unfortunately, for your oh-so-precious Singaporean ego, I am in neither country.I concede the point that Malaysian NS is much shittier than sg NS. However, I wonder who gave the UMNO idiots the idea in the first place.
Singapore's system may be better than Malaysia's. That's like being smarter than Bush. Malaysia discriminates against non-Malays, Singapore discriminates against citizens. Not a whole lot of difference.
If you still consider a place where you're enslaved as your home, you are so deluded.
so the whole point of your exercise is ? .....
to show that you're the sort who carries no allegiance to any larger group nor society, but to yourself and what benefits you ? .... in other words ... you're, selfish ? ...
what's a good word to use ? ... a societal parasite ? ... i'm sure the place where you're in now, would love to welcome a lot more like you ... again, I suppose i cannot blame you, coming from a place where you were treated as second class citizens ... I suppose one would develop a more selfish attitude that way ... but then again, I'd say it again ... if the other two groups were more inclined to be less selfish and less hungry for personal gain, they wouldn't have been shafted for so long by another that's only marginally bigger ... it is your kind of attitude that's ultimately to blame for the other two minorities predicament, I wonder if you can really see it ....
but hey, then again, you're a female, so it's a bit hard for you to understand .... it's in the male psyche to defend and protect what's his ... while you, are a protectee ... just remember that if someone tries to rape you ... it's still your man that you'll have to call upon to protect you .... hopefully, the chap doesn't think like the TS or yourself ... who'll simply run away and call the police and hope for the best ....
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Prespective from PNSF side... People seem to keep forgeting NS doesn't just involve army. People can end up in SPF and SCDF too...
I'm not they guy protecting Singapore in times of war, but in my POV, we still need NSmen to patrol the streets of Singapore. Most people in Singapore would not know what is going on outside their own lives. The reality is, there is a constant war against crime in Singapore to keep Singapore streets, coast lines and key installiations safe.
Everyday, one patrol car can get up to 40 calls per section. Depending on regulars alone to take care of these calls and Singapore will become like Malaysia. Crime everywhere and bad guys out number the police. NSmen play a VERY IMPORTANT role in supporting the regulars so that the work is spread out and becomes manageable.
On the Plus side, PNSF gets to see Singapore in a whole new light that normal citizens wouldn't normally see. And catching the bad guys is always a thrill.
But on the minus side, its a lot of work. And the member of public is no help either. Constantly scrutinizing us.
Its a Thankless job, but someone have to do it.