Why NS? [ Pre-Enlist POV ]
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I will say this kid haven't serve NS already chicken out... LOL!!!
wondering when u go in, will u wet yr pants anot? Give so much excuse abt not serving NS... I will say TS no balls. Cut off yr thing and be a kuniang la..
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Double post
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Originally posted by rooki:
Well, as you can see, NS certainly screws up with peoples' minds. Look at those who have served NS, at least in this thread. Look at how they have lost their sense of self and insist on the 'common good'. Look at how they have become so manipulatable by the government, believing that NS is all about protecting ones' family and friends when it's all about maintaining the stability of the corrupt administration. No wonder they're being replaced by non-brainwashed FTs.
Try not to lose your mind in NS, paradogs. Your 'self-centered' thinking is way better and practical than those communalists.
The whole concept of government is about the common good. Almost everything that keeps you alive now, like clean water and a reliable (if expensive) source of food, is because the government has created it for you out of nothing-- this is especially true in Singapore than in many other countries of the world.
So then, if you preach individualism and partake in the benefits that your government has provided, you are a hypocrite.
There is a reason why anarchists do not dominate the world today-- a people organised together ALWAYS do better than an individual in the long term.
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Originally posted by edwin3060:
The whole concept of government is about the common good. Almost everything that keeps you alive now, like clean water and a reliable (if expensive) source of food, is because the government has created it for you out of nothing-- this is especially true in Singapore than in many other countries of the world.
So then, if you preach individualism and partake in the benefits that your government has provided, you are a hypocrite.
There is a reason why anarchists do not dominate the world today-- a people organised together ALWAYS do better than an individual in the long term.
sounds familiar.
i heard something like this b4: you don't sleep under the blanket of peace and security i provide, and then wake up the next morning and question how i provide it.
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so TS, what's your point for starting this thread?
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NS is a great experience.
Don't look at the war perspective, NS equips you with a lot of skills beyond combat.
So.....TS, you really know nuts.
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aiyah death also inevitable mah? so why bother go hospital if ur sick and injured.. just die lor.. waste ur parents money ony..
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TS think the gharment will not think like he tinks meh? anyone can claculate stregth and numbers and landscale. no need army no need frwen ship with neighbouring coountries no need join ASEAN UN no need to make fwens with foreigners lah.
all the above don't have alone a small island can survive meh?
tkae the recent dispute we have with MY over the Pedra issue. I am not gloating over the outcome but if we have no realationships with anyone no ASEAN no UN no bilitarerla court sure with the dispute anyone can challenge us to war.
but why we go to court instead?
in a war if in my buddy system , my section, my platoon, my company, my battalion, my bridgae, my army got any soldier make this remark i shoot him first instead of the enemy. not than army encourage this type of disposition over soldier's behaviour but my personal preference to exercise communism amongst the ranks. death to anyone who disrupt or disintegrate the morale of the men and the fabric to the aim of national service.
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Originally posted by CannyOng:
I will say this kid haven't serve NS already chicken out... LOL!!!
wondering when u go in, will u wet yr pants anot? Give so much excuse abt not serving NS... I will say TS no balls. Cut off yr thing and be a kuniang la..
we should ttell the guy on school holiday that NS got night's off go geyland eat chick rice.also go overseas training they provide condoms 3 pieces for you just in case we eat overseas chick rice.
also u want to put water blow ballon from conloms go ahead with a party man
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Originally posted by edwin3060:
The whole concept of government is about the common good. Almost everything that keeps you alive now, like clean water and a reliable (if expensive) source of food, is because the government has created it for you out of nothing-- this is especially true in Singapore than in many other countries of the world.
So then, if you preach individualism and partake in the benefits that your government has provided, you are a hypocrite.
There is a reason why anarchists do not dominate the world today-- a people organised together ALWAYS do better than an individual in the long term.
You crack me up. Tell me, how does paying high salaries to elites while letting the commoners get shafted by foreigners count as 'common good'?
Unless by 'common' you really mean 'elite', of course.
NS is merely a tool for corrupt politicians to manipulate male citizens, at least for now. In a better society, where citizens actually HAVE A SAY IN GOVERNMENT, all your reasons about common good and defense are of course perfectly valid. As it is, NSmen are currently little more than slaves under the iron yoke of the PAP.
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Originally posted by rooki:
You crack me up. Tell me, how does paying high salaries to elites while letting the commoners get shafted by foreigners count as 'common good'?
Unless by 'common' you really mean 'elite', of course.
NS is merely a tool for corrupt politicians to manipulate male citizens, at least for now. In a better society, where citizens actually HAVE A SAY IN GOVERNMENT, all your reasons about common good and defense are of course perfectly valid. As it is, NSmen are currently little more than slaves under the iron yoke of the PAP.
while you get shafted by UMNO in your country .... did you read what I posted ? ....
but hey ... of course ... you wouldn't understand .... you are here .... enjoying life under our protection, neh ? ....
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Originally posted by rooki:
You crack me up. Tell me, how does paying high salaries to elites while letting the commoners get shafted by foreigners count as 'common good'?
Unless by 'common' you really mean 'elite', of course.
NS is merely a tool for corrupt politicians to manipulate male citizens, at least for now. In a better society, where citizens actually HAVE A SAY IN GOVERNMENT, all your reasons about common good and defense are of course perfectly valid. As it is, NSmen are currently little more than slaves under the iron yoke of the PAP.
If that's the case, the feeling of being under the yoke feels mighty good. -
When TS does a few modules relating to security studies, he will understand what the real world is like.
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Seriously,juet let Paradog serve NS first then let hin learn. The real world works based on self-interest.Institutions work based on self-interest.Why do you think we have power hungry dogs (cunning) like Lee Kuan Yew still in power?
Ns has its purpose.Part of it is to keep a leash on the male population of Singapore,but also as a way to channel our energies during that time from 18-21. It establishes a conformity and gives a common base and certainly allows you to bond with your fellows overseas.
It has its strategic purpose as well. Singapore has openly admitted a policy of deterrence.because as far as I see,if we engage Indonesia or Malaysia in a war,there will be heavy economic and political repercussions.We'll have a friendly eighbourhood jihad and then we'll really become an Israel of the East.
I'm not there to fight for abstract bullshit like pride or honour of the nation,because Singapore as a state seems to have little or no pride,the way our PM acts by 'angkat bola' for China or lifting balls all the time.Rather I'm there for the friends I met and made,because let's face it-
If there was a war and you deserted your friends for the sake of survival,would you be able to sleep at night later on?If you can then good on you,but I couldn't.I'd rather have a long sleep and wake up in the morning and not feel disgusted with myself.
That's all for my yake on it.
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malaysia and indonesia the two good friends. dun even need troops to attack, cut off water, seal off our ports and airspace,
you can hide in a box, but once these are cut, i think its very difficult to live past two weeks. I guess to protect singapore, i dun think it has much impact, they serve more than personal bodyguards, cheap labour to protect key installments, for the L regime...
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Originally posted by rooki:
You crack me up. Tell me, how does paying high salaries to elites while letting the commoners get shafted by foreigners count as 'common good'?
Unless by 'common' you really mean 'elite', of course.
NS is merely a tool for corrupt politicians to manipulate male citizens, at least for now. In a better society, where citizens actually HAVE A SAY IN GOVERNMENT, all your reasons about common good and defense are of course perfectly valid. As it is, NSmen are currently little more than slaves under the iron yoke of the PAP.
u quite talk cock hor..
opposition come into power no more NS? lame..
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NS should stay, but the training methods and esp treatment of personels should be vastly improved, you can't expect a dissent trooper of serving you in times of crisis, a balance must be reached between discipline and welfare, i think saf have much to work in this direction. sad to hear about TS brother's fate, but hes not the first, and wouldnt be the last
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sounds like a kid ranting bout ns, as if he's the only one who has to go through it.
99% chance he's gonna try his best to chao keng.
you're not a man, so just admit and stay as a kid.
who's gonna protect your family or worse still yourself? you expect someone to do that for your and your family sake? grow up.. i will rather die alongside a fellow comrade in arms, then for a pussy fucknut like you.
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ah gua spotted !
Changi village ---> that way -
Wow.... I'm gone for half a day, and this thread sure has surged forward....
Anyway, Paradogs, the issue we have here is that you oppose NS primarily because you focus too much on the 'me' concept.
And that's what everyone means when we say that there's too much 'me' in your rants. You don't actually have to say the word 'me'; you are simply showing too much of the 'me' self-concept in your posts. Virtually everyone here noticed that. And that's why your original post suddenly transmogrified into this current state.
Which is also why everyone asks you: would you fight for your family, your friends, your home, and all the things that you care about? There's no 'me' in all those things. And if you just put aside the 'me', there should be nothing stopping you from trying to protect them.
That is also, incidentally, the whole purpose of group punishments and mass tekan sessions during BMT. It is meant to deconstruct the 'me' self-concept and to build the 'we're all in this together' concept. And that is what that ultimately helps an army be effective. There is no 'me' in a truly effective army.
No one is asking you to totally lose your personality and be a mindless drone. Everyone is just asking you to see the grand scheme of things. And when you do so, you'd see just how important NS is in the big picture.
And certainly, protecting and safeguarding your loved ones is part of the big picture, yes? And wouldn't doing NS aid you in doing so?
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Originally posted by snowfoxx:
malaysia and indonesia the two good friends. dun even need troops to attack, cut off water, seal off our ports and airspace,
you can hide in a box, but once these are cut, i think its very difficult to live past two weeks. I guess to protect singapore, i dun think it has much impact, they serve more than personal bodyguards, cheap labour to protect key installments, for the L regime...
How exactly are you going to cut off the sealanes or airspace if there is the constant threat of AMMRAMS from Vipers and Harpoons from stealth Frigates coming to make life difficult for you?To seal off sealanes and air space means not only having to face the wrath of the international community, but also the RSN and the RSAF coming in to reopen these lines of communication, at the end of the day unless we have no credible airforce or navy trying to seal off is simply not easy to do.
And our neighbours know this, at the end of the day you are going to need ground forces to enforce certain things.
BTW, cutting off water before the contract expires is a good enough casus beli for open war liao, do you think they are really willing to do so despite decades of threatening?
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is it necessary to maintain a standing army?
can adopt guerilla warfare. so far, it IS unbeatable.
communist won civil war in china with guerilla warfare.
Vietnam thrash the ass of USA also with guerilla warfare.
Afghanistan beat back the USSR with guerilla warfare.
Iraq? see for urself. the usa is losing the war.
so why should we even have a army at all? it is cheaper to have guerilla fighters, equipped with AKs, RPG, light arms.
somemore they can do the job, taking out those fancy million dollar gadgets...
imagine, having an enemy killed everyday in every district of singapore, when they are most vulnerable, (shitting, peeing etc). sure scare the shit out of them.
this way can sure save alot more money, which can be better used for other stuff, like welfare.
according to http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/naval-forces/5721-rankings-military-spending.html
singapore spends more than US$4 bn, as compared to malaysia's US$1bn.
north korean is spending US$5bn
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I think you are just seeing one side of the coin, because insurgent attacks make the news but insurgents getting killed in the majority of failed attempts do far less often.
Are you sure you really want to fight as an insurgent? The kill ratios are always lopsided, for every IED planted in Iraq that sucessfully kills an American soldier many more are defused and several insurgents are killed.
Also, you are assuming the enemy controlling us will be like the US- ie. they have some notion of human rights (at least their media will hold them to it), and not some other army that uses more heavy-handed approaches towards such things.
Imagine a regime like the junta now in Buma taking over that reacts to any insurgent operation by killing 50 locals for every soldier killed by the guerillas.
Also unlike a large country where there is a lot of space for an insurgency to hide, Singapore is a small nation that can be controlled and contained, trying to have an insurgency is an extremely difficult task.
Also being guerillas mean the line between combatant and noncombatant is blurred, this also means that your family will more often then not find itself in the line of fire or treated as if they were combatants.
While the Black Hawk Down incident focuses on Somalis driving off the Americans, one needs to realize that the flip side was that the kill ratio was about 50:1 and over 1000 Somalis died (many of them non combatants) for just 17 Americans who were not equipped to fight a pitched battled with them anyway, and had the Americans actually decided to go in full force, it would be over.
I think it will be a mistake to assume all armies will fight like the US, that is they are afraid of taking too many losses, if you fight with a regime that is just in it to rape plunder and kill and to whom their own soldiers are just pawns, guerilla warfare is a lot less effective or even counterproductive.
But at the end of the day, fighting a guerilla battle means we already lost the war. Even if we drive the enemy out with such tactics they can return to their country after laying waste to ours in a scorched earth approach, leaving us with nothing left.
As I said, if you think an insurgency/ guerilla warfare is the way to go for us... you've been watching way too much CNN.
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oh its "i dun wanna go army bcos of [insert reason]" thread
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Originally posted by kopiosatu:
its the amount of wayang. its working in SEA.
u dun worry about morale. let the higher ups worry how to show off.
haha when i was still serving my 2 yrs everyone you asked would always say low morale but the report that's sent up always list good morale anyway, just wanted to add that i'm 26, for most of my life after 18 i've hated the army and reservist training....... i honestly feel that its a waste of time and i don't learn anything but the thing is, once you realise how singapore's neighbours think and act you'll realised how important NS is.