Rangers orbat
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The Ranger course not only teaches skills that can be applied at the small unit level but a mindset and mental toughness that is useful anywhere. Also, I think that the Ranger course is becoming more noticed because both COA and Chief Armour are Rangers. I have seen an Infantry Ranger so I know its possible
Hope I get the chance to go. -
Ranger course used to be only for regulars but although some NS men have attended so far never heard of reservists intake and never will.There are many opportunites for a regular CDO to clear this course unless he is downgraded permanently .In this case, he might as well not wear the Red Beret anymore.Why I say opportunites given to CDO only because they can go for recourse over and over again until they pass.This course used to be very difficult to pass so there is no shame to say that many old timers have taken it several times.Some of the courses were intentional for old troopers (people already into their 30s) to clear .This is to the best of my knowledge unless they are changes already.People get posted out of formation for all kinds of reasons but I see no reason why a regular Commando shouldnt be without a Ranger tab.Originally posted by will4:So in other words, passing the ranger course is an important factor n for those red beret never clear ranger course, will they posted out of the red
beret formation? Are reservist eligibel to go for the ranger course? -
You're missing the point, Icemoon. The Ranger course and the Ranger battalions are two related but entirely separate things.Originally posted by Icemoon:Why doesn't 1 CDO make the training mandatory for the troopers then?
Commando LRRP companies already have LRRP training and all companies are trained in the strike role (I don't know if the distinction exists following the changes in the NS structure, though), so the ORBAT-related issue is already addressed.
On the other hand, as the others have already said, the Ranger course is more of a leadership course. The Commando section leader course can be seen to be a more basic and scaled-down version of the Ranger course, and is in fact conducted by Ranger cadres (or it was the last time I checked). -
Not exactly. Sometimes unconventional knowledge can be applied in certain other units too.Originally posted by Icemoon:I heard Ranger course is tougher than SOF selection, in fact it is the toughest course in the SAF.
What a waste if some of those guys languish in an armour unit, for example.
It's about changing how you think and react on the battlefield too.
For e.g, Armour OC with Ranger experience may actually have a better idea on how to repel raiding attacks, spec ops intrusion and how to set up force protection for the laager etc.. (as far as I know, though I may be wrong) -
Asan extension to Lordz's point, and in answer to Icemoon's question about OCs being involved in grunt work, it's not unknown for OCs to get caught up in fights. There are plenty of instances in firefights getting well past the perimeter to the battalion HQ, and not only OCs but COs directly taking part in the action. An officer with Ranger training would be better equipped to handle that sort of situation.
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And that reminds me of one incident in the first "Thunder Runs" into Baghdad in 2003.. where a US Army Brigade Commander (COL) had to repel a few suicide bombers in cars attempting to ram themselves into the rear elements of his armoured column.Originally posted by Gedanken:Asan extension to Lordz's point, and in answer to Icemoon's question about OCs being involved in grunt work, it's not unknown for OCs to get caught up in fights. There are plenty of instances in firefights getting well past the perimeter to the battalion HQ, and not only OCs but COs directly taking part in the action. An officer with Ranger training would be better equipped to handle that sort of situation. -
Last time my unit condemned MTO wears a red RANGER tabOriginally posted by Icemoon:I heard Ranger course is tougher than SOF selection, in fact it is the toughest course in the SAF.
What a waste if some of those guys languish in an armour unit, for example. -
Perhaps he got stuck after that. Or he was an exception to the rule.Originally posted by seancannot:Last time my unit condemned MTO wears a red RANGER tab
Most Ranger-tabbed officers/WOs I've known are quite competent fellows. -
You can hardly find an Armour trained Ranger nowadays. Those lao-jiao AI vocation Rangers(mostly WOs) are almost reaching their retirement period, most if not all have spend at least 20-25 years in the force already.Originally posted by edwin3060:The Ranger course not only teaches skills that can be applied at the small unit level but a mindset and mental toughness that is useful anywhere. Also, I think that the Ranger course is becoming more noticed because both COA and Chief Armour are Rangers. I have seen an Infantry Ranger so I know its possible Hope I get the chance to go. -
It was also pointed out in the article that the course lets you know your true physical and mental limits. The unforgiving chain of missions is to let soldiers have a feel of what it feels like in a real battle. When that day comes(touchwood), at least Ranger-trained guys can be better prepared for it and motivate his own troopers.
My BMT CSM was also a ranger, rumors that he passed only after a few tries, which speaks volumes of how tough the course is. But to be posted to Tekong, dunno whether he suay or kena hentak-kaki.
Airbourne training is part of the training programme, but issit a pre-requisite for Ranger course? -
The cruel part about the course is that you are at the mercy of the cadres,they can make you look good or bad in the course and they have the power to pass or fail you just like that,this is something I will not elaborate.The Ranger course in Japan SDF is very siong also but trainees dont get tekan for nothing or simply because the cadre dont like you but because you really Farked Up they dont have the demerit point system,the trainees there quit on their own cuz there is no fix date and time as to when the course ends.Still, if you compare these two I would say the SAF one was/is more jialat.Rapelling is part of the training not Airborne and it wasnt a pre-requisite.Originally posted by kajagugu:It was also pointed out in the article that the course lets you know your true physical and mental limits. The unforgiving chain of missions is to let soldiers have a feel of what it feels like in a real battle. When that day comes(touchwood), at least Ranger-trained guys can be better prepared for it and motivate his own troopers.
My BMT CSM was also a ranger, rumors that he passed only after a few tries, which speaks volumes of how tough the course is. But to be posted to Tekong, dunno whether he suay or kena hentak-kaki.
Airbourne training is part of the training programme, but issit a pre-requisite for Ranger course?
The Ranger course of the past was so respected that if you tell people you did it twice or three times and even 4 times in a row people dont mock at you but they think you are more determined & hardcore .Although I did it only once I could say that I sort of envy these guys. -
Sorry, just curious...did you pass in the end?Originally posted by Short Ninja:The cruel part about the course is that you are at the mercy of the cadres,they can make you look good or bad in the course and they have the power to pass or fail you just like that,this is something I will not elaborate.The Ranger course in Japan SDF is very siong also but trainees dont get tekan for nothing or simply because the cadre dont like you but because you really Farked Up they dont have the demerit point system,the trainees there quit on their own cuz there is no fix date and time as to when the course ends.Still, if you compare these two I would say the SAF one was/is more jialat.Rapelling is part of the training not Airborne and it wasnt a pre-requisite.
The Ranger course of the past was so respected that if you tell people you did it twice or three times and even 4 times in a row people dont mock at you but they think you are more determined & hardcore .Although I did it only once I could say that I sort of envy these guys.
Based on the Pioneer article, there's a pic of a trainee parachuting out. If that trainee wasnt airbourne-trained prior, is he qualified to wear the Airborne badge after he passed Ranger course? -
there is one OC in 40 SAR (if he is still there) who has the RANGER tab.Originally posted by flash9933:You can hardly find an Armour trained Ranger nowadays. Those lao-jiao AI vocation Rangers(mostly WOs) are almost reaching their retirement period, most if not all have spend at least 20-25 years in the force already.
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Yes I passed.That trainee has to be airborne trained first.Originally posted by kajagugu:Sorry, just curious...did you pass in the end?
Based on the Pioneer article, there's a pic of a trainee parachuting out. If that trainee wasnt airbourne-trained prior, is he qualified to wear the Airborne badge after he passed Ranger course? -
Pioneer magazine also interviewed CPT Lim Han Yong of 40SAR in the course.Originally posted by saline:there is one OC in 40 SAR (if he is still there) who has the RANGER tab. -
can scan?Originally posted by Icemoon:The latest Pioneer has an article on our Rangers.
I dun have Pioneer subscribed.
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wah .. more photos than the printed edition.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Two articles from Cyberpioneer. -
Is there an age limit to join JCC, ranger, airborne or other qualification badges?
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Like others have pointed out - US Ranger units and ranger course are 2 different things (with 2 different tabs as well).
Members of the US Ranger units must pass a 4 week Ranger Indoctrination Program (RIP) before posted to one of the US Ranger battalions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_Indoctrination_Program
The US Ranger school on the other hand, conducts a 9 week leadership course - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_School .
Being professionals, most, if not all, US Rangers take up the 9 week Ranger school course in order to progress in their military careers (hence 2 "ranger" tabs on their uniforms).
The roles of the US Ranger units are similar to our own commando unit. US Rangers are commandos - British commonwealth countries use the term commandos, whereas, the US choose the word "Rangers" instead. More details on the naming can be found in the history of US Ranger units formed during WW2.
And please - not all units named "rangers" are special warfare/forces units. -
Heard that one is chicken-feed compared to ours.Originally posted by bcoy:The US Ranger school on the other hand, conducts a 9 week leadership course - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_School .
Physically tough, yes, but lacks the mental toughness required to go through SF Selection (MOS 18 series). -
First of all there is no such thing as chicken feed in any of these courses Just that maybe the SAF is tougher in terms of mental harrassment.Youve have probably heard stories about many Singaporean soldiers coming out on top in the US Ranger and Navy Seal courses but if you have not heard of failures that doesnt mean that there is none.In fact there were several cases where someone who did well in the SIngapore Ranger flopped the US course.That dont mean that they are no good in the field ,its just that the classroom lessons may be a bit harder to grasp for those with lower secondary education.I dont have the slightest clue about what goes on these days in the SAF but just telling it the way it was.Originally posted by Icemoon:Heard that one is chicken-feed compared to ours.
Physically tough, yes, but lacks the mental toughness required to go through SF Selection (MOS 18 series). -
indeed, from what i;ve heard, the USA courses are more technical and 'book based' compared to the Singapore Ranger Course. Each has it own merits, and are tailored to suit the demands of each army..Originally posted by Short Ninja:First of all there is no such thing as chicken feed in any of these courses Just that maybe the SAF is tougher in terms of mental harrassment.Youve have probably heard stories about many Singaporean soldiers coming out on top in the US Ranger and Navy Seal courses but if you have not heard of failures that doesnt mean that there is none.In fact there were several cases where someone who did well in the SIngapore Ranger flopped the US course.That dont mean that they are no good in the field ,its just that the classroom lessons may be a bit harder to grasp for those with lower secondary education.I dont have the slightest clue about what goes on these days in the SAF but just telling it the way it was.
From books and websites, i gather that the navy seals course is very physically demanding, i'm not sure if what is the theoratical component of the course.. seems to be mostly field work and PT. -
Well, my platoon sargeant fell out of the US Ranger course after he dislocated his shoulder badly during unarmed combat. Not his fault, but he never quite got over coming back without the yellow tab and left after his first contract with the SAF finished. It's a shame because he really was a damn good soldier.Originally posted by Short Ninja:Youve have probably heard stories about many Singaporean soldiers coming out on top in the US Ranger and Navy Seal courses but if you have not heard of failures that doesnt mean that there is none.In fact there were several cases where someone who did well in the SIngapore Ranger flopped the US course. -
You're a fellow ranger? Geez!Originally posted by Short Ninja:The cruel part about the course is that you are at the mercy of the cadres,they can make you look good or bad in the course and they have the power to pass or fail you just like that,this is something I will not elaborate.The Ranger course in Japan SDF is very siong also but trainees dont get tekan for nothing or simply because the cadre dont like you but because you really Farked Up they dont have the demerit point system,the trainees there quit on their own cuz there is no fix date and time as to when the course ends.Still, if you compare these two I would say the SAF one was/is more jialat.Rapelling is part of the training not Airborne and it wasnt a pre-requisite.
The Ranger course of the past was so respected that if you tell people you did it twice or three times and even 4 times in a row people dont mock at you but they think you are more determined & hardcore .Although I did it only once I could say that I sort of envy these guys.
anymore rangers in here?