Interesting talk btw Athiest Prof & Christian Student
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Originally posted by gasband:Aiyah do a paper on how to improve the design of our singapore dollar leh... wah very ugly lor esp those with Yusof Ishak's face....
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u sound like u r from my generation ... grwing up listening to rick price lolOriginally posted by laurence82:rock...hmm not for me
i prefer slower music..hurhur, like acoustic... -
u're weird laOriginally posted by jnwk:I enjoy being in the state of being concussed by the chiminess and at the same time playing with the chiminess....... ha ha..... -
Hello I grow up listening to Rick Price also lah...AIr Supply somemore....Originally posted by ben1xy:u sound like u r from my generation ... grwing up listening to rick price lol
But Rock is the one that rocks my socks off... -
NVM i do SLOW ROCK.Originally posted by laurence82:rock...hmm not for me
i prefer slower music..hurhur, like acoustic... -
gosh ... it's 3 am in Aussie.. i need to conduct lessons at 9 tomorrow... shet...
i'm going guys! nice interacting with u guys this way!
cya all -
i was in secondary when rick price came up with his pitchy voice...Originally posted by ben1xy:u sound like u r from my generation ... grwing up listening to rick price lol
but nowadays, its songs like howie day's collide, jason mraz's you and i and many chinese songs
when u come back to sg, i bring u to walas... -
None can be worse than Sly and TaufikOriginally posted by laurence82:i was in secondary when rick price came up with his pitchy voice...
but nowadays, its songs like howie day's collide, jason mraz's you and i and many chinese songs
when u come back to sg, i bring u to walas... -
OK lah me also go liao...BYE BYE
God bless your sleep everyone -
got slow rock?Originally posted by gasband:NVM i do SLOW ROCK.
first time i heard that
old school rock? -
Have....ya u can say its old school... like EVERY ROSE HAS ITS THORNS by Poision... that kinda of songOriginally posted by laurence82:got slow rock?
first time i heard that
old school rock? -
hey they not badOriginally posted by gasband:None can be worse than Sly and Taufik
i like sly and taufik new songs
besides they sing better than most people i noe, that is a plus point..hurhur -
adios...Originally posted by gasband:OK lah me also go liao...BYE BYE
God bless your sleep everyone
now let me go flame that guy in another forum..kekeke -
adiosOriginally posted by ben1xy:gosh ... it's 3 am in Aussie.. i need to conduct lessons at 9 tomorrow... shet...
i'm going guys! nice interacting with u guys this way!
cya all
i think icemoon go set up a chatbox better -
Heng@,
Maybe the following sites may help answer your question:
http://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html
So late liao. No wanna read abstract stuffs liao. Maybe so other time then read. Tmr need to wake up early. Ok, cya around.
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I have read the sites I posted. The bible is absolutely clear that homosexuality is a sin. I hope you read the articles and go and refered to the relevant verses that have been put up. The bible is very clear indeed leh.Originally posted by HENG@:very simply, in reply to all u've said, i only wish to point out that, certain bits of Matthew and John have recorded the actual words of Jesus, like a secetary would write down what her boss dictates to her, so I find that believable as divine word of the law. Anything else, especially such a touch and grey topic like sexuality, what Paul has said, is simply not impartial enuf to be taken 100% for sure as the law. And in such a case, where something is so unclear that if not clarified, it can be debated either way, since neither Jesus nor God themselves have choosen to clarify that homosexuality is a sin, I rest my case that not only is it justified for me, but for millions of Christians in general, to believe homosexuality is not a sin as well. -
Okay lar, I put the verses to let you see:
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
(Romans 1:26-32)
Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
9 "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.
12 The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."
(Genesis 19:1-13)
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. ( Leviticus 18:22)
Good nite -
I've said earlier liao. PAUL wrote this. He wrote this to express his thoughts. Nothing in the Bible says that Jesus or God ever said that. So its not only me, but millions of Christians who not only think its not a sin to be homosexual, but are also uncomfortable that their fellow Christians could use a passage of a human's words to justify their own homophobia. I think that is very clear cut too. Christianity preaches tolerance, not intolerance.Originally posted by jnwk:Okay lar, I put some of the verses to let you see, the rest you find yourself lo:
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
(Romans 1:26-32)
Good nite -
Damn.... I got D for my Stats module... bleah..Originally posted by gasband:hurhurhur the last time I used SPSS was like 4 yrs ago? ITs really good when u have extensive data to be analysed. And I must admit it gives u pretty good output for analysis purposes once the data are being keyed in... -
Okay, I see. You don't believe in the NT? How about OT leh?Originally posted by HENG@:I've said earlier liao. PAUL wrote this. He wrote this to express his thoughts. Nothing in the Bible says that Jesus or God ever said that. So its not only me, but millions of Christians who not only think its not a sin to be homosexual, but are also uncomfortable that their fellow Christians could use a passage of a human's words to justify their own homophobia. I think that is very clear cut too. Christianity preaches tolerance, not intolerance. -
Read the OT lo. Well, I dunno if you believe OT or not. Okay, I leave it to you le. Now really go sleep le. Tmr then see your reply.
Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
9 "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.
12 The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."
(Genesis 19:1-13)
=> Read this (What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?): http://www.gotquestions.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. ( Leviticus 18:22) -
its not so simple u know? its not just 'I believe' or 'I don't believe' Sometimes the problem with u people are u see things in so black and white!Originally posted by jnwk:Okay, I see. You don't believe in the NT? How about OT leh?
I believe the NT, but I don't believe everything in it. the NT is after all, a COMPILATION of many different scriptures. While I do not doubt that Paul wrote 1 Cor, I do think that just because Paul wrote something expressing his views does not necessary make that THE WORD or THE LAW. Paul is human. John writing down what Jesus himself had said is different from Paul writing down what he thinks might be or not be.
It is simply foolish to trust everything in it because just reading thru 1 Cor, gut feeling is that it doesn't seem right, and its different from the nature of what Jesus says. Furthermore, Jesus himself never said that homosexuality is wrong, and when u have such a grey area topic like sexuality, don't u think Jesus would have seen fit to clarify a topic that, if it were a sin, would have to be clarified?
So no, I won't be trapped by the way u frame it, either believe in, or not, because nothing is so simple, that u can either believe in a huge compliation of different scriptures of different nature or u not. As for the Old Testaments, its meant for the Jews only and since Jesus is the messiah, it has been rendered void, so no need to discuss about that. -
thats funny. another Christian friend of mine told me, in her own words "That sin was not homosexuality itself, but homosexual RAPE"Originally posted by jnwk:Read the OT lo. Well, I dunno if you believe OT or not. Okay, I leave it to you le. Now really go sleep le. Tmr then see your reply.
Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
9 "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.
12 The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."
(Genesis 19:1-13)
=> Read this (What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?): http://www.gotquestions.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. ( Leviticus 18:22)
i dun understand why u people have to ignore the real wickedness of an action and unfairly point fingers at the other part which is not.
But that of course, is her view. My view is that, Old test, not valid. not unless u're a jew. If u still have a foreskin(assuming u're male), dun come quoting OT to me. -
wah lau... almost had a heart attack this morning... overnight, the thread grew by a few pages....
but glad that it was all discussion on work....phew.....
anyway back to heng...
I see that your view to the Bible is basically "selective reading". So it seems that to you as long as Jesus did not explicitly state something, your opinion is everything else is can be ignored at your convenience...?? Maybe doing the dog is ok too?? Since neither Jesus nor Paul made any comments about it....???Originally posted by HENG@:very simply, in reply to all u've said, i only wish to point out that, certain bits of Matthew and John have recorded the actual words of Jesus, like a secetary would write down what her boss dictates to her, so I find that believable as divine word of the law. Anything else, especially such a touch and grey topic like sexuality, what Paul has said, is simply not impartial enuf to be taken 100% for sure as the law. And in such a case, where something is so unclear that if not clarified, it can be debated either way, since neither Jesus nor God themselves have choosen to clarify that homosexuality is a sin, I rest my case that not only is it justified for me, but for millions of Christians in general, to believe homosexuality is not a sin as well.
I see your view on the Bible is really odd... OT laws don't apply to you, as we agreed, cos we are not Jews. NT don't apply to you 'cos for most parts they "were written by opinionated men". So where is your basis for Christianity, assuming you are claiming to be a Christian? If you are not a Christian, why use the Bible to justify homosexuality?
Homosexual rape??? Rape is rape. Homosexual or heterosexual... why differentiate? Why do you think that OT makes a specific mention on homosexual rape on the presumption that it is not OK?
Still... you have not answered my question on Ecclesiastes...
This is a mistaken concept..... a pacificist view on Christianity. Throughout the Bible, the teaching that God hates sins is very clear. The fact that we are told to love sinners does not mean that we need to tolerate the sins. All the epistles contain various rebukes by Paul/James/John/Peter to the churches who have committed sins. Tolerance was not evident in these writing. Of course one can still go on the "these-are-personal-opinions-expressed-by-old-fogeys" line.
Christianity preaches tolerance, not intolerance.
I want to be clear on one point here.... the rebukes by the apostles were mostly directed at Christians, Jews and gentiles who believe in Christ... not applicable to non-Christians. -
i think we should set up a chatterboxOriginally posted by Chin Eng:wah lau... almost had a heart attack this morning... overnight, the thread grew by a few pages....
but glad that it was all discussion on work....phew.....
.