>>*<< Do Animals Have Souls? >>*<<
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however, being empty of inherent existence doesnt mean nihilism.
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obviously our definitions of the "soul" are different. my definition is that the soul is the unchanging 7th consciousness self-soul. yours is the "bardo state" soul which in buddhism carries on for at most 49 days until it goes for a rebirth.
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Merry Meet Again Suicine,Originally posted by Suicine:obviously our definitions of the "soul" are different. my definition is that the soul is the unchanging 7th consciousness self-soul. yours is the "bardo state" soul which in buddhism carries on for at most 49 days until it goes for a rebirth.
Well everything in this World is everchanging thats for sure. Anyway from your 1st post till now somehow its seems rather self-contradicting. Initially you denied the existence of Soul now in your previous post you agreed that it existed. Without a Soul will there be a rebirth/reincarnation...very amusing... Perhaps from all your previous posts & quotes, you simply quoted the various writings without understanding it thoroughly in the correct way, perhaps its the command & understanding of language which led to some misconception on your part. Anyway thanks for your replies, have a great weekend...
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
yeah, go on and laugh. I doubt you even understand the difference between the 2 definitions of souls i've mentioned.
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haiz nvm, i'll try to explain it even though im not too sure of it also.
2 things can be called the soul in buddhism.
one is the wrong idea of a permanently unchanging thing existing inside or outside of you that you consider to be "you". some people would think its in the mind. the buddha has however broken down all that makes up a "self" into the 5 aggregates, and all experiences we have must come from these aggregates. some people would think that the eternal soul exists outside of these 5 aggregates, maybe even holding them together. that is false.
another thing that can be called the soul is the gaseous bardo state created by the thoughts of the deceased if he or she is still very attached. that is also something that changes every moment because it was created by some of the 5 aggregates.
that's all i think i know, thanks. wanna find out more go read up.
[EDITED ADD ON]: how can there be rebirth without a permanent soul?from http://www.mountainman.com.au/buddha/carus_53.htm:
this means that the thoughts are not the self. you just think its you becos its a continuum.
"There is rebirth of character,
but no transmigration of a self.
Thy thought-forms reappear,
but there is no egoentity transferred.
The stanza uttered by a teacher
is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words." -
Merry Meet Again Suicine,Originally posted by Suicine:yeah, go on and laugh. I doubt you even understand the difference between the 2 definitions of souls i've mentioned.
Of coz i can Laugh all i want to... Is it a Sin to laugh? Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. Ain't it so true to the core...It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows. Well unless you are someone of authority over this Field, if not ain't you making a mockery of yourself by doubting others without substantial validity... Your arrogance will not be tolerated in any ways...When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities.
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
look whos arrogant now. if you would have noticed already, i have been the one showing the humble attitude while you were the one laughing away. why dont u tell me where im wrong at? cant you at least point me back to the light?
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If you are humble then you would have think twice about making such statement from your previous post...If Blind Lead Blind, all will fall into the Ditch...ha ha haOriginally posted by Suicine:look whos arrogant now. if you would have noticed already, i have been the one showing the humble attitude while you were the one laughing away. why dont u tell me where im wrong at? cant you at least point me back to the light? Don't you know its a blessing to be able to laugh? Rather then wallow in own illusion without feeling of joy or security... Be it your choice...ha ha ha
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
so you dont know whats wrong with my posts. and yet you posted this.
and thisOriginally posted by OCEANOS:Merry Meet Again Suicine,
Of coz i can Laugh all i want to... Is it a Sin to laugh? Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. Ain't it so true to the core...It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows. Well unless you are someone of authority over this Field, if not ain't you making a mockery of yourself by doubting others without substantial validity... Your arrogance will not be tolerated in any ways...When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities.
Blessed Be,
OceanosMerry Meet Again Suicine,
and when have i said its a bad thing to laugh?
Well everything in this World is everchanging thats for sure. Anyway from your 1st post till now somehow its seems rather self-contradicting. Initially you denied the existence of Soul now in your previous post you agreed that it existed. Without a Soul will there be a rebirth/reincarnation...very amusing... Perhaps from all your previous posts & quotes, you simply quoted the various writings without understanding it thoroughly in the correct way, perhaps its the command & understanding of language which led to some misconception on your part. Anyway thanks for your replies, have a great weekend...
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
Well perhaps you don't even have any idea what you are writing at that moment of Time or maybe i am blind...ha ha ha Anyway i have already replied you in my previous posts pertaining to your misconception just you failed to understand it... Knowledge is a process of piling up facts; wisdom lies in their simplification. Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Don't you reckon that?Originally posted by Suicine:yeah, go on and laugh. I doubt you even understand the difference between the 2 definitions of souls i've mentioned.
so you dont know whats wrong with my posts. and yet you posted this.
and when have i said its a bad thing to laugh?
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
perhaps if you could look at my later posts with an open heart you could find the answer to your replies.Originally posted by OCEANOS:Well perhaps you don't even have any idea what you are writing at that moment of Time or maybe i am blind...ha ha ha Anyway i have already replied you in my previous posts pertaining to your misconception just you failed to understand it... Knowledge is a process of piling up facts; wisdom lies in their simplification. Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Don't you reckon that?
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
Merry Meet Again Suicine,Originally posted by Suicine:perhaps if you could look at my later posts with an open heart you could find the answer to your replies.
Well if i have not look at your posts with a open heart, i would'nt have replied any of your posts initially, there is no obligation for me to do that anyway! If you think by merely quotely a few lines by some westerner who embraced Buddhism later than people brought up from generation to generation through the teachings of Buddhism then maybe you have made a mistake, probably touching the brim & surface of the outer layer rather than the Core/Essence of Buddhism. In the 1st place, the rules & regulations of my Haven is that i don't encourage any discussion of any religions in any ways which i have already made known to you. In the past whenever there is such discussion whether is on Buddhism , Christianity or any other religions, Its bound to cause alot of unecessary unrest among fellow forumites. If you discuss such issues in your ways & such manners in any other forum, the topic would have been closed long ago. Just that i chosed not to as i feel you are a young & curious seeker of Buddhism with some doubts & misconceptions which i feel a need to clarify your wrong perspective. But as it prolonged, you seem rather out of the hand & sad to say "No Manners At All". If you don't even respect others why should they bother with you, One is able to guide but not change any of the latter if the latter chose not to, its a matter of choice which is applicable to everything in life. Like all dreamers Ones confuse disenchantment with truth. Since i already done my part as the Owner of ~*~LOA~*~ to clarify your misconception & mispresentation of info which is not taken is fine with me instead returned with such arrogance & ill manners will not be tolerated by me in any ways, neither do i feel obligated to look at your later posts nor seek any answers from a nobody like you who hold no authority over me or Buddhism in any ways. Last & not least, my kind & amiable nature does not permit you to command or question me in any ways for that nature may just shift to a not so nice way when there is a need to...
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
do bacteria have souls? do virus have souls?
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hehehe thats a good one...Probably this question must ask some Professor to make a speech...ha ha haOriginally posted by the.raven:do bacteria have souls? do virus have souls? -
Originally posted by OCEANOS:
maybe when bacteria die, they all go to bacteria heaven
[b]hehehe thats a good one...Probably this question must ask some Professor to make a speech...ha ha ha [/b] -
Yeah lor... Heaven is a place on Earth...heheheOriginally posted by the.raven:maybe when bacteria die, they all go to bacteria heaven -
Well if i have not look at your posts with a open heart, i would'nt have replied any of your posts initially, there is no obligation for me to do that anyway! If you think by merely quotely a few lines by some westerner who embraced Buddhism later than people brought up from generation to generation through the teachings of Buddhism then maybe you have made a mistake, probably touching the brim & surface of the outer layer rather than the Core/Essence of Buddhism.
Buddhism is the same everywhere if it goes according to the true teachings of the Buddha. Someone may think he's a buddhist but he may be a taoist/buddhist/chinese-worshipper mix. Another one brought up in a buddhist family may not have been taught about Buddhist teachings at all. Having proper education on the true teachings of the Buddha and knowing the right way of practise under the guidance of a qualified teacher is what's important.
All along you have labelled me as not knowing what I was talking about. If you had looked at my posts with an open mind, you would have found your claims to my "misconceptions" to be invalid.In the 1st place, the rules & regulations of my Haven is that i don't encourage any discussion of any religions in any ways which i have already made known to you. In the past whenever there is such discussion whether is on Buddhism , Christianity or any other religions, Its bound to cause alot of unecessary unrest among fellow forumites.
First off, I am new not only to this forum but also to this entire website, so I won't have known of any previous disputes you had here. Second, you didn't make it clear the rule to me (ok, I was wrong to not have caught it, sorry), and I interpreted it as you telling me to stop because you found me to not know what I was talking about, which was obviously untrue. I found a thread asking for views, naturally I post my views unless you specifically say "NO RELIGIOUS TALKS ALLOWED".If you discuss such issues in your ways & such manners in any other forum, the topic would have been closed long ago. Just that i chosed not to as i feel you are a young & curious seeker of Buddhism with some doubts & misconceptions which i feel a need to clarify your wrong perspective.
I see arrogance here.But as it prolonged, you seem rather out of the hand & sad to say "No Manners At All". If you don't even respect others why should they bother with you, One is able to guide but not change any of the latter if the latter chose not to, its a matter of choice which is applicable to everything in life.
who has less manners? Person A who posts what he knows about something, or person B who constantly say that the other person doesn't know what he's talking about, only pasted from random sites without understanding, and worst of all person B doesn't know any better.Like all dreamers Ones confuse disenchantment with truth. Since i already done my part as the Owner of ~*~LOA~*~ to clarify your misconception & mispresentation of info which is not taken is fine with me instead returned with such arrogance & ill manners will not be tolerated by me in any ways,
See, all along you have been labelling me as confused and posting wrong information, when you obviously know less about Buddhism than I do. (not that I know a lot)neither do i feel obligated to look at your later posts nor seek any answers from a nobody like you who hold no authority over me or Buddhism in any ways.
You attempted to correct someone's "mistakes", yet when someone shows you the reason why he posted those things you ignore them. This is truly open-mindedness and not arrogance.Last & not least, my kind & amiable nature does not permit you to command or question me in any ways for that nature may just shift to a not so nice way when there is a need to...
No comments here. -
Originally posted by OCEANOS:
You know what? This entire post fits more of yourself than of me.
[b]Merry Meet Again Suicine,
Of coz i can Laugh all i want to... Is it a Sin to laugh? Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. Ain't it so true to the core...It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows. Well unless you are someone of authority over this Field, if not ain't you making a mockery of yourself by doubting others without substantial validity... Your arrogance will not be tolerated in any ways...When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities.
Blessed Be,
Oceanos
[/b] -
Absurd!!!
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Merry Samhain to All...
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
Originally posted by Suicine:
Well true if its under proper guidance of a qualified teacher however its not when somebody hallucinate & think he is a teacher by propagating some invalid self-perceived distort teaching of Buddhism. The Teachings may be valid however when it passed on to another due to his understanding of Language & Calibre perhaps failed to see the true essence behind the teachings & adjusted the teaching to his own perception. Thus make "False Speech", which equate to committing a sin by not adhering to the "Five Moral Precepts". Anyway i am not interested & not obliged to entertain you...
Buddhism is the same everywhere if it goes according to the true teachings of the Buddha. Someone may think he's a buddhist but he may be a taoist/buddhist/chinese-worshipper mix. Another one brought up in a buddhist family may not have been taught about Buddhist teachings at all. Having proper education on the true teachings of the Buddha and knowing the right way of practise under the guidance of a qualified teacher is what's important.
All along you have labelled me as not knowing what I was talking about. If you had looked at my posts with an open mind, you would have found your claims to my "misconceptions" to be invalid.Originally posted by Suicine:
"Perhaps One should refrain from making any comments about Religions as its not encouraged in any ways." I made this statement to you initially when you started out the Religious Talk, Are you blind or dumb? Hope you are not... So what if you are new? So you can arrogant & obnoxious is it? Whether you are new or not? You jolly well know, some people definitely have no integrity. Do not over extend your Welcome in here... I dislike people who are rude...
First off, I am new not only to this forum but also to this entire website, so I won't have known of any previous disputes you had here. Second, you didn't make it clear the rule to me (ok, I was wrong to not have caught it, sorry), and I interpreted it as you telling me to stop because you found me to not know what I was talking about, which was obviously untrue. I found a thread asking for views, naturally I post my views unless you specifically say "NO RELIGIOUS TALKS ALLOWED".Originally posted by Suicine:
Well its just the Truth, Go ahead post elsewhere with your ill manners i would'nt be shocked if they ban your username...
I see arrogance here.Originally posted by Suicine:
That is what i call "Self-Deceit", "Empty vessel makes most noise" .
who has less manners? Person A who posts what he knows about something, or person B who constantly say that the other person doesn't know what he's talking about, only pasted from random sites without understanding, and worst of all person B doesn't know any better.Originally posted by Suicine:
For your info, I went through a three days formal ceremony of "Tibetan Buddhist Initiation" done by His Holiness Sakya Trizin, the Throne Holder of the Sakya Order of Tibetan Buddhism, Ngawang Kunga Thegchen Palbar Trinley Samphel Wanggi Gyalpo in the early 90s from then i was given a "Buddhist Name". I am also a initiated "Achan" by "Thailand Buddhist Initiation" through Formal ceremony by my late Teacher, Achan Bong in 1995.
See, all along you have been labelling me as confused and posting wrong information, when you obviously know less about Buddhism than I do. (not that I know a lot)Originally posted by Suicine:
Anyway i am not obliged to rectify your "Mistakes" in any ways, just did it out of Goodwill but somehow its not appreciated & misintepreted thus i am not interested be it your own Doings! I am also not answerable to you in any ways or any realms, hope you get your mentality right!
You attempted to correct someone's "mistakes", yet when someone shows you the reason why he posted those things you ignore them. This is truly open-mindedness and not arrogance.Originally posted by Suicine:
I got comments, sometimes its better to be a silent Rose than barking at the wrong tree. My advice to you is avoid conflict to have a better life do not provoke & invite trouble to your life...Accumulated more negativities will manifest into Physical problem in days to come...
No comments here.
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
Well true if its under proper guidance of a qualified teacher however its not when somebody hallucinate & think he is a teacher by propagating some invalid self-perceived distort teaching of Buddhism. The Teachings may be valid however when it passed on to another due to his understanding of Language & Calibre perhaps failed to see the true essence behind the teachings & adjusted the teaching to his own perception. Thus make "False Speech", which equate to committing a sin by not adhering to the "Five Moral Precepts". Anyway i am not interested & not obliged to entertain you...
It is a well-known fact that the no-soul concept is unique to Buddhism. The Buddha even says that this is the teaching that distinguishes Buddhism from other religions. Denial of this fact = instant lose."Perhaps One should refrain from making any comments about Religions as its not encouraged in any ways." I made this statement to you initially when you started out the Religious Talk, Are you blind or dumb? Hope you are not... So what if you are new? So you can arrogant & obnoxious is it? Whether you are new or not? You jolly well know, some people definitely have no integrity. Do not over extend your Welcome in here... I dislike people who are rude...
I have already apologized for not having caught the meaning of that line, and yet you have to further bring in your insults. I shall not comment further here.
When I said that I am new, I was referring to me not knowing the disputes you had here from religious discussions. Haiz...For your info, I went through a three days formal ceremony of "Tibetan Buddhist Initiation" done by His Holiness Sakya Trizin, the Throne Holder of the Sakya Order of Tibetan Buddhism, Ngawang Kunga Thegchen Palbar Trinley Samphel Wanggi Gyalpo in the early 90s from then i was given a "Buddhist Name". I am also a initiated "Achan" by "Thailand Buddhist Initiation" through Formal ceremony by my late Teacher, Achan Bong in 1995.
That's all talk.
So can you tell me what is meant by "Everything is without a self"? -
Originally posted by Suicine:
Well nothing on this Earthly plane is unknown or extraordinary as Great Wisdom is Boundless & Limitless! Do you know there are different factions in Buddhism? Theravada/Hinayana or Mahayana tradition are not important as they are all the same! There is no caste system in Buddhism so there is no we or others as all are followers of the Noble Truths & Disciples of Buddha, all are sentient beings are the same. I am a believer of Buddhism, Buddha is in our Heart & it does not matter what Forms He chose to emanate as a common feature of all Buddhist is the quest for true happiness and peace for all beings. Did Buddhism teaching made you wanna boost your Ego with the intent to Win or just simply to Share? If that is of utmost importance to you, i seriously doubt you as a disciple of Buddha.
It is a well-known fact that the no-soul concept is unique to Buddhism. The Buddha even says that this is the teaching that distinguishes Buddhism from other religions. Denial of this fact = instant lose.Originally posted by Suicine:
I already made known to you that any discussions pertaining to any Religions is not encouraged in here & this is the third time I am telling you, untill now you still don't get it...What more can i say? I have no further comments too...
I have already apologized for not having caught the meaning of that line, and yet you have to further bring in your insults. I shall not comment further here.
When I said that I am new, I was referring to me not knowing the disputes you had here from religious discussions. Haiz...Originally posted by Suicine:
Again you made such a arrogant remark! Perhaps you are unaware of His Holiness Sakya Trizin who is a eminent figure in Tibetan Buddhism Worldwide. I am his Disciple, if you so free why don't you check out my record from Sakya Tenphel Ling which they probably kept a record. But again there is no need for me to answer to you in any ways & you better get your facts or mentality right! As for my Thai Guru Achan Bong, he has moved on but if you want to talk to him, i am sure i can ask him to pay you a visit, by the way my Guru is quite eccentric & kinda fierce during the days when he taught me thai buddhism & mystic art. I am greatly saddened by his sudden departure & was quite sorry that i was not by his side when he moved on.
That's all talk.
So can you tell me what is meant by "Everything is without a self"?
"Everything is without a self"? In my perspective, "Self" is "an-attaa" literally means Feelings or Ego. Regardless or whats going on or happen, All beings are impermanent & subject to sufferings. Everything is without a self will only be a reality when Ones reaches Nirvana & ceasation of All Sufferings which literally means state of no Dukkha which is the " Ultimate Reality " where the " Perfect Ones " reside.
Thats all. I will not answer any more of your post or question coz i don't feel its a good avenue to spend my quality time as i am not very free at the moment. Its neither beneficial to me in any way nor am i interested or hold great importance on winning or losing as it don't matter at all to me. If you don't understand so be it...
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
Well nothing on this Earthly plane is unknown or extraordinary as Great Wisdom is Boundless & Limitless! Do you know there are different factions in Buddhism? Theravada/Hinayana or Mahayana tradition are not important as they are all the same! There is no caste system in Buddhism so there is no we or others as all are followers of the Noble Truths & Disciples of Buddha, all are sentient beings are the same. I am a believer of Buddhism, Buddha is in our Heart & it does not matter what Forms He chose to emanate as a common feature of all Buddhist is the quest for true happiness and peace for all beings. Did Buddhism teaching made you wanna boost your Ego with the intent to Win or just simply to Share? If that is of utmost importance to you, i seriously doubt you as a disciple of Buddha.
What the hell are you talking about? The no-soul/self concept is one of the 4 seals of Buddhism and one of the 3 inherent characteristics of all existence, so no matter what stream or tradition you are in this teaching should be included! Why are you on and on about traditions, castes and what not anyway? Your tradition may not place great emphasis on this teaching, but this doesn't mean that this teaching doesn't exist in other traditions! Did you misinterpret my post or something?Again you made such a arrogant remark! Perhaps you are unaware of His Holiness Sakya Trizin who is a eminent figure in Tibetan Buddhism Worldwide. I am his Disciple, if you so free why don't you check out my record from Sakya Tenphel Ling which they probably kept a record. But again there is no need for me to answer to you in any ways & you better get your facts or mentality right! As for my Thai Guru Achan Bong, he has moved on but if you want to talk to him, i am sure i can ask him to pay you a visit, by the way my Guru is quite eccentric & kinda fierce during the days when he taught me thai buddhism & mystic art. I am greatly saddened by his sudden departure & was quite sorry that i was not by his side when he moved on.
For your information, both rahula28 from the buddhist forum and the guy who wrote the "Controversial Buddhist Traditions" webpages are also disciples of His Holiness Sakya Trizin! How come they know these basic teachings while you do not? Have you been dozing off?"Everything is without a self"? In my perspective, "Self" is "an-attaa" literally means Feelings or Ego. Regardless or whats going on or happen, All beings are impermanent & subject to sufferings. Everything is without a self will only be a reality when Ones reaches Nirvana & ceasation of All Sufferings which literally means state of no Dukkha which is the " Ultimate Reality " where the " Perfect Ones " reside.
Too bad that in Buddhism you don't create things. You REALIZE things that are already there. So if there is no soul at nirvana, there is no soul now. Like I have already said, the 7th consciousness is a delusion and that is what buddhists call the soul. I have also already clarified that there are 2 definitions of soul, one is the bardo state while the other is the 7th consciousness delusion, and we were each talking about different ones. However, if you truly know your stuff then you should have caught it in my first post!
BTW, Self is Atman. No-self is anatta. You got it backwards! -
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