Fares and "Huge deficit" under GCM "clearly not sustainable"

• dupdup77

  9 Mar 17, 17:45

  Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

  Add: 117, 127

  Badly designed routes: 116, 120, 121, 122, 973

  M services such as 139M (exists even though 129 is introduced), 143M (too redundant), 53M (redundant, again!!), 43M (redundant, especially w/ 43 full fleet DD).

  The only M variant that really makes sense today is 63M. 

  PPSS

  Excessive buses on feeders

  Hi mr busanalyser, why is 116 and 120 and 121 badly designed? 120 and 121 are designed due to feedback from residents.

  120 --- old folks at telok blangah heights and drive request for a service to connect them to telok blangah MRT. The walk up slope is too much for them to handle and they feedback to the MP.

  121 ---residents along Kim Tian area at the inner roads claim for a direct service to tiong Bahru mrt and other amenities along Jalan Bukit merah. They do not even have a service. Residents along telok blangah rise also feedback to MP as they only have 272. It is good that LTA introduced just 1 service to connect them. Or else bus fanatics will have criticized introducing of excessive services. 

  Let's note that LTA does not place expectations of bus fanatics as their utmost priority in introducing bus services. It is best to concentrate on residents welfare and needs where new bus services are introduced. Cheers. Thanks. 

   

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 18:18

  Originally posted by bic_cherry:

  Just encourage greater bicycle use: people happy n healthy, n gahmen can save $$$ on unnecessary healthcare costs from lifestyle disease like cancer, diabetes, hypertension, heart attacks and obesity. 
  
  

  Then ride on the roads disregarding of paying road users?Sg is not a place to jollywell ride bicycle as you please unlike in Europe..Here everyone fighting for a space

• gekpohboy

  9 Mar 17, 18:20

  Actually, GCM helps to lower costs. The only disadvantage is that the initial cost is high; no choice.

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 18:23

  Now passengers of PSR St 71 complains why is there only 1 bus svc?Later got 1 svc go there loadings not that high how ah?Not sustainable also?

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 18:28

  Originally posted by gekpohboy:

  Actually, GCM helps to lower costs. The only disadvantage is that the initial cost is high; no choice.

  BCM also help to keep those complain kings and queens mouth shut because everytime say longer waiting time,Bus overcrowding,Why so many single decks and more out of the world request.Its true what,You want everything go as you want there is always a price for that.

  You want this you want that then expect pay peanut only?You expect drivers wait for you,You expect on time,You expect everything where got so cheap?Else just accept the fact its PUBLIC Transport..

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 18:29

  Expect buses to be as close to kerb then complain leg pain to climb up as if the public buses is using high floor coaches?Join bus and train industry then you know what nonsense is.

• gekpohboy

  9 Mar 17, 18:31

  It appears that the quote has been taken out of context. It's not about BSEP not sustainable or what, but about the fares. The fares cannot continue to be so low.

  This is what Khaw Boon Wan actually said, and I quote, "Over the years, fares have not kept up with rising costs. Taxpayers have to subsidise more and more of the operating costs, especially as we have been raising service standards significantly.  This is clearly not sustainable.", end quote.

  Brace yourself. Fare hike is coming.

  Be prepared to pay express bus fares on basic bus services like feeder and trunk.

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 18:35

  Actually i do pity those working as bus planner in LTA,Never do bus route kena pressured by boss,Done kena criticised kaw2..🤣 But i agreed that some route is actually redundant..Sgbuses is right,Trunk svc should be more direct not act as a feeder svc.

• gekpohboy

  9 Mar 17, 18:53

  and it's not just buses. trains also.

  transport fares will increase, but hopefully, it's not to the extent that we have to pay the highest transport fares in the world for the same distance travelled.

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 19:00

  I would rather have TV mobile rather than that USB port charger..At least pax can watch the lastest news while stuck in traffic jams.

• Sbs6750E

  9 Mar 17, 19:06

  Originally posted by carbikebus:

  I would rather have TV mobile rather than that USB port charger..At least pax can watch the lastest news while stuck in traffic jams.

  
  Ya lor, nowadays ppl got powerbank liao.
• ^tamago^

  9 Mar 17, 19:24

  Originally posted by carbikebus:

  Actually i do pity those working as bus planner in LTA,Never do bus route kena pressured by boss,Done kena criticised kaw2..🤣 But i agreed that some route is actually redundant..Sgbuses is right,Trunk svc should be more direct not act as a feeder svc.

  
  

  Sadly, that's the definition of a trunk service. literally a �水線。

• lce

  9 Mar 17, 19:37

  how can a cow manage the herd?

  only noe how to cowpei cowbu.

• AJQZC

  9 Mar 17, 19:43

  Originally posted by gekpohboy:

  It appears that the quote has been taken out of context. It's not about BSEP not sustainable or what, but about the fares. The fares cannot continue to be so low.

  This is what Khaw Boon Wan actually said, and I quote, "Over the years, fares have not kept up with rising costs. Taxpayers have to subsidise more and more of the operating costs, especially as we have been raising service standards significantly.  This is clearly not sustainable.", end quote.

  Brace yourself. Fare hike is coming.

  Be prepared to pay express bus fares on basic bus services like feeder and trunk.

  Might as well build newer MRT lines quickly. Then don't need so many new bus services. Short-term investment, long-term gain and operating cost reduction.

  Plans for TEL / CRL / NCL could all be brought forward.

• SMB128B

  9 Mar 17, 19:49

  Originally posted by ^tamago^:

   

  Sadly, that's the definition of a trunk service. literally a �水線。

  No?! �水線 is defined as a long haul used for short haul travelling. Trunks can also be 特快線, where long haul uses express routing that is more direct than the fastest alternative by train e.g. 23, 168. In HK that would be things like 215X, 74X, 796C.

• array88

  9 Mar 17, 19:59

  Originally posted by dupdup77:

  Hi mr busanalyser, why is 116 and 120 and 121 badly designed? 120 and 121 are designed due to feedback from residents.

  120 --- old folks at telok blangah heights and drive request for a service to connect them to telok blangah MRT. The walk up slope is too much for them to handle and they feedback to the MP.

  121 ---residents along Kim Tian area at the inner roads claim for a direct service to tiong Bahru mrt and other amenities along Jalan Bukit merah. They do not even have a service. Residents along telok blangah rise also feedback to MP as they only have 272. It is good that LTA introduced just 1 service to connect them. Or else bus fanatics will have criticized introducing of excessive services. 

  Let's note that LTA does not place expectations of bus fanatics as their utmost priority in introducing bus services. It is best to concentrate on residents welfare and needs where new bus services are introduced. Cheers. Thanks. 

   

  Yes every BSEP service has its own rationale and there's nothing wrong with that. But A LOT of these routes could have been planned better while still fulfilling these objectives.

  For example, 120's and 121's routes are okay between Telok Blangah and their respective EWL stations, but the parts between NBR and Tiong Bahru / Redhill are totally useless. Same for 116's Yio Chu Kang Rd where it duplicates with so many services and picks up almost 0 pax. It could have been easily amended into Serangoon Ave 1 (the part where 315 is not there).

  46 does provide unique connections, just that it DOES NOT need any DDs until DTL3 is ready. Also why the duplication with 291 when it's not helping 291 share its load from interchange?

• gekpohboy

  9 Mar 17, 20:00

  I thought 水 in this case means "money", and �水 means "lose money", or is it "passenger flow"? (泉 = 井 = in this case, "water tap")

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 20:03

  Originally posted by AJQZC:

  Might as well build newer MRT lines quickly. Then don't need so many new bus services. Short-term investment, long-term gain and operating cost reduction.

  Plans for TEL / CRL / NCL could all be brought forward.

  You think running a rail line is cheap?

• carbikebus

  9 Mar 17, 20:04

  In Singapore text,There is no Public First,Profit second sadly especially with the Ministars caliber..

• gekpohboy

  9 Mar 17, 20:09

  The Speaker of parliament Mdm Halimah Yacob just said, "although schemes are available ... unfortunate Singaporeans must be helped to avail of them, and thrown a lifeline if necessary. Help schemes must help".

  To those working for a public transport company, don't worry, you will still enjoy free travel on buses and trains.

• ^tamago^

  9 Mar 17, 20:41

  Originally posted by SMB128B:

  No?! �水線 is defined as a long haul used for short haul travelling. Trunks can also be 特快線, where long haul uses express routing that is more direct than the fastest alternative by train e.g. 23, 168. In HK that would be things like 215X, 74X, 796C.

  
  

  �水線（Trunk Route）指甚少乘客會乘�全程，大部分乘客��在中途上下車，而且幾乎�個巴士站都會有乘客上�車的巴士路線。這�詞�於城巴在1997年的城巴5B線的路線圖上稱該線為「北岸�水線（North Shore Line）�，其來�相信是與「�水作業�（�工業中��工�由��工人負責）有關。

  此等路線通常是早期的巴士線，有較長的發展歷�，因�路網絡�未發�或���併路線而�生。隨著�路網絡日趨完善，加上�路�務擴張，大多�水線地�已今�如昔，客�大幅下滑，甚至有多�路線被轉型或�辦。�時開辦的路線大多以特快線為主，助乘客更快到�目的地，亦有利巴士公�抗衡�路競爭。

  能稱得上是�水線的路線通常屬跨�線，�務範�大�路線長且迂迴曲折，絕大部份路段甚至全程��上快速公路。�水線以途經旺�的���路為主（例如軒尼詩��彌敦�），車站密度極高，近乎「站站��，因此並無一個主�的乘客群，大部份乘客都�會乘�全程，於特快線興起�更多港�路綫啟用後情�尤甚。

  http://hkbus.wikia.com/wiki/�水線

• gekpohboy

  9 Mar 17, 20:55

  Come I translate for you.

  Original text: "�水線（Trunk Route）指甚少乘客會乘�全程，大部分乘客��在中途上下車，而且幾乎�個巴士站都會有乘客上�車的巴士路線。"

  Translation: "Flow water suana (trunk route) means very few passengers take the entire route, most passengers only take along the route, and almost every bus stop have passengers board and alight from the bus."

   

  err... maybe that's the situation at Hong Kong, but in Singapore, I don't think that's the case for most trunk routes.

• SMB145B

  9 Mar 17, 22:15

  Some of the trunks double up as feeders. This actually diminish the effectiveness of bus routes.

• array88

  9 Mar 17, 22:32

  Originally posted by SMB145B:

  Some of the trunks double up as feeders. This actually diminish the effectiveness of bus routes.

  Not necessarily so - they give people more connections besides just that one MRT / bus interchange. As long as the trunks come at good frequency.

• TIB868X

  9 Mar 17, 23:07

  Originally posted by array88:

  Not necessarily so - they give people more connections besides just that one MRT / bus interchange. As long as the trunks come at good frequency.

  Not necessarily so - the feeder merry-go-round sectors might need good frequency but other parts of the route might not need it. This leads to unoptimized use of resources.