Questions about S'pore buses? Post them here! (Part 8)
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It is not only the number of crashes, but also the magnitude of such crashes:
http://transport.asiaone.com/news/general/story/bus-driver-charged-over-fatal-crash
"Zhang was driving the service 700A bus along the slip road from Bukit Timah Expressway to Dairy Farm Road at 8.55am.
A district court was told that he was going at 78kmh, exceeding the 50kmh speed limit, and that he lost control while making a sharp left turn."
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we better look into this problem of SL braking hard and flooring accelerator. not only that, SLs speeding in excess of 70km/h, poor maintenance of buses and proper timetable for bus stops, interchanges and terminals.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
It is not only the number of crashes, but also the magnitude of such crashes:
http://transport.asiaone.com/news/general/story/bus-driver-charged-over-fatal-crash
"Zhang was driving the service 700A bus along the slip road from Bukit Timah Expressway to Dairy Farm Road at 8.55am.
A district court was told that he was going at 78kmh, exceeding the 50kmh speed limit, and that he lost control while making a sharp left turn."
Firstly. 78kmh bro. As I have suggested, 70kmh max.
But more importantly, this is a matter of driver discipline. It is the driver problem for not slowing down at the turn; he was relentlessly slamming the accelerator. The accident would have occured regardless if the speed limit was 60 or 70. And no, rollover tests show that 70kmh alone is insufficient to overturn a 12m bus.
If there is anything we should fix it is the driver discipline. By doing so we also ensure drivers drive safely outside the bus, without any speed limiters in place. See, the extra mile is covered!
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Did you even watch the video?
Watched it. Comment edited.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Firstly. 78kmh bro. As I have suggested, 70kmh max.
But more importantly, this is a matter of driver discipline. It is the driver problem for not slowing down at the turn; he was relentlessly slamming the accelerator. The accident would have occured regardless if the speed limit was 60 or 70. And no, rollover tests show that 70kmh alone is insufficient to overturn a 12m bus.
If there is anything we should fix it is the driver discipline. By doing so we also ensure drivers drive safely outside the bus, without any speed limiters in place. See, the extra mile is covered!
Indeed. A bus is only as safe as the driver is. No amount of speed limiters or torque restrictions will prevent an unsafe driver from getting into accidents.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
But more importantly, this is a matter of driver discipline. It is the driver problem for not slowing down at the turn; he was relentlessly slamming the accelerator. The accident would have occured regardless if the speed limit was 60 or 70. And no, rollover tests show that 70kmh alone is insufficient to overturn a 12m bus.
If there is anything we should fix it is the driver discipline. By doing so we also ensure drivers drive safely outside the bus, without any speed limiters in place. See, the extra mile is covered!
This is a particularly problematic area. When there is a shortage of drivers, operators can't really pick and choose (other than excluding those who are known to have poor safety records). Some drivers take on the job because it is their only means of earning a living.
TT's "go slow" approach seems to be working. There isn't an accident serious enough (with injuries) to be on the newspaper yet, which from statistical history should already have occurred at least once by now.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Edit: video watched. Okay sure, I choose to buy your logic, even though I find the experiment in the video pretty unrealistic (in terms of the braking and the 30kmh thing), which is understandable due to it being advocating for its cause.
Nevertheless, I can now see why increasing limit may seem a problem for people: most of our buses run on roads littered with junctions, not expy. Hence higher likelihood of hitting people and stuff. And I will not disagree.
But this is another problem isnt it. If we STILL insists on our buses plying so many damn stops and passing through every busy road, not only are our bus routes getting winding, buses are also not travelling fast, even pulling down those ALREADY express with them! So if the hub-and-spoke model is still gonna be stubbornly used, our buses are just gonna stop more and travel slower. In this case LTA has already failed in its cause: to get more car owners to ride the PT.
This is a legacy issue I would really want LTA to address in the long run. Many existing routes are designated for maximum catchment, a mentality that works when the fare box is the operator's main concern. We have switched to a distance-based fare but the routes remain winding and anarchic.
One possibility is to redesign the network to allow for more express routing. I quite like the limited stops idea used in Adelaide (though a bit complex). And dedicate new buses that has seat belts for every seat for such express routes. The latter, if implemented, would be a very strong argument to convince TP to raise speed limit for public buses.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
This is a particularly problematic area. When there is a shortage of drivers, operators can't really pick and choose (other than excluding those who are known to have poor safety records). Some drivers take on the job because it is their only means of earning a living.
TT's "go slow" approach seems to be working. There isn't an accident serious enough (with injuries) to be on the newspaper yet, which from statistical history should already have occurred at least once by now.
This may also be becoz they are operating only 26 svcs, adding to this in a progressive manner...? Obv there will be less chance what...
It is not about picking and choosing. It is about really giving two shits and STRINGENTLY TRAINING your drivers and monitoring them to drive safely rather than giving such a blanket policy that clearly isnt gonna sustain in the long term.
I dont actl see this "go slow" thing to be permanent. If it is, isnt it disappointing to see yet another simplistic, truistic approach SG always like to take...
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
This may also be becoz they are operating only 26 svcs, adding to this in a progressive manner...? Obv there will be less chance what...
It is not about picking and choosing. It is about really giving two shits and STRINGENTLY TRAINING your drivers and monitoring them to drive safely rather than giving such a blanket policy that clearly isnt gonna sustain in the long term.
I dont actl see this "go slow" thing to be permanent. If it is, isnt it disappointing to see yet another simplistic, truistic approach SG always like to take...
Not really. Drivers on new routes are statistically more likely to run into an accident, especially if they missed a turn or lose their way.
Some of these drivers were from the incumbents, and continued driving under the new operator the next day. How could they suddenly change their driving habits overnight?
Designing timetables to go slow is the ten year series approach by operators to BSRF. Some operators might choose to save on peak vehicle requirement (PVR) by setting a tighter timetable, but that is understood to be taking a conscious risk.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Not really. Drivers on new routes are statistically more likely to run into an accident, especially if they missed a turn or lose their way.
Some of these drivers were from the incumbents, and continued driving under the new operator the next day. How could they suddenly change their driving habits overnight?
Designing timetables to go slow is the ten year series approach by operators to BSRF. Some operators might choose to save on peak vehicle requirement (PVR) by setting a tighter timetable, but that is understood to be taking a conscious risk.
Exactly right. Since some are from the incumbents the problem of new routes should be fairly minimal. Thanks for pointing THAT out!
Never have I asked for the driving habits to change overnight. Training takes time, I know that. But eventually, it has to take place what. We cannot always implement short-sighted policies to solve problems that wouldnt work in the long run! Sure we can use it for stop-gap, but definitely not as means of evasion!
10 years?! A driver needs 10 bloody years to familiarise?! I really must personally meet him man. 10 years isnt short you know, now not only are buses capped at a ridiculous 60kmh, they are FURTHER restrained from even hitting that speed! LTA can say goodbye to their "carefree coz we're car-free" gimmick!
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
10 years?! A driver needs 10 bloody years to familiarise?! I really must personally meet him man. 10 years isnt short you know, now not only are buses capped at a ridiculous 60kmh, they are FURTHER restrained from even hitting that speed! LTA can say goodbye to their "carefree coz we're car-free" gimmick!
Not literately ten years. Ten year series refers to a textbook/past year exam approach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_year_series Once you figure out the "correct" method or formula, you tend to stick to it. I presumed you should have taken at least one national examination.
Either way, I do not expect TT to change its timetabling approach in the long run.
LTA's latest slogan is a gimmick, of course. LTA (or any contractors they have delegated this job to) is trying to emulate Transperth style posters but apparently isn't great at doing that. What might be viewed as being direct in Perth is probably viewed as being offensive here:
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Anyone know why is 856's EDS format for their A22s and 405Gs (normally) different than all of SMRT's EDS (roads ply flushed to left instead of centre)? Today is probably the first time I saw a 856 405G with normal 405G EDS. Any other SMRT with such EDS?
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Not literately ten years. Ten year series refers to a textbook/past year exam approach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_year_series Once you figure out the "correct" method or formula, you tend to stick to it. I presumed you should have taken at least one national examination.
Either way, I do not expect TT to change its timetabling approach in the long run.
LTA's latest slogan is a gimmick, of course. LTA (or any contractors they have delegated this job to) is trying to emulate Transperth style posters but apparently isn't great at doing that. What might be viewed as being direct in Perth is probably viewed as being offensive here:
Paiseh, read wrong. If TT isnt giving it up I can see why some would rather the incumbents do the job.
LTA in general just failed at getting people to give up their cars, something they always dream of. And I assure you, in the years to come they will not succeed.
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There is a number of accidents in Bulim depot recently.Lack of knowledge and over confident driving big vehicles also contribute to accidents..About the svc 700 case,Many SMRT old buses are being restricted progressively..I dont know why the hell he wanna speeding on a road that are capped 50kmh for heavy vehicles..
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SMRT BCs got themselves to blame for spoiling the market,Got fast buses but dont know how to take care,Speeding almost everywhere.Jerking,Hard braking.Previously i only use for overtaking on expressways if the buses can exceed 60kmh and would keep back to left lane and maintain 60kmh.
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Is there still any SMRT buses with Trans Island livery in 2006?Or all already repainted to SMRT livery?For SBS Transit wise,there is still SBS livery in 2006 as seen here:
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Originally posted by Singtel Sticker:Is there still any SMRT buses with Trans Island livery in 2006?Or all already repainted to SMRT livery?For SBS Transit wise,there is still SBS livery as seen here:
All SBS Transit buses now feature the SBS Transit corporate livery of purple, orange and white, introduced when SBS was renamed SBS Transit Limited (2001) prior to the opening of the Sengkang LRT and North East Line MRT.
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Originally posted by Singtel Sticker:Is there still any SMRT buses with Trans Island livery in 2006?Or all already repainted to SMRT livery?For SBS Transit wise,there is still SBS livery as seen here:
The SBS livery shown there is a BBDEP repaint around 2005. The window line had been painted black (similar to the CAC buses), all badges removed and the old SBS logo removed. The CAC buses in bbdep also received this treatment, but its not easy to differentiate those from the Mk2s from other depots as the only way to identify them was missing badges and missing logo. All buses subsequently received the SBS Transit livery, leaving SBS210L as the only bus left in the old SBS livery.
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What about TIBS livery?Is there still any in 2006 or all repainted to SMRT livery?
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Which routes or Int we can see all the 4 bus companies together?Bedok Int i know got GA for 17,TT for 66 and 854 for SMRT.
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Isnt that like literally answering your question? (Bedok int)
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Originally posted by SMB1368T:
Isnt that like literally answering your question? (Bedok int)
Cmon,I think there is other more..
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At most i can think 3 only
Marina Centre got 3 operator
CGA also 3
NBR also 3
Yishun and AMK next year going to have 4 including the Seletar -
Originally posted by TIB 585L:
At most i can think 3 only
Marina Centre got 3 operator
CGA also 3
NBR also 3
Yishun and AMK next year going to have 4 including the SeletarOrchard Rd (Dhoby Ghaut MRT)
SMRT (aiya so obvious)
SBS (same as above)
TT: 77, 106 (143 dosen't stop there)
GA: 518
If Seletar Bus Package is won by new operator: 162 too
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hmm does Eu Tong Sen St/New Bridge Road count?
SBST: 33
SMRT: 61
TT: 143
GAS: 2