spore bus really clean and fast responce just love it good leader come with great enviroments
Originally posted by SBS6465E:I feel like falling off my chair and laughing. Of course it can be cut. Most demand is not from BPJ or Woodlands to Marine Parade. Why would Woodlanders be going to Marine Parade? To use Parkway Parade and Marine Parade CC, because they don't have their own facilities? To attend school? Or to enjoy sea breeze?
It's ridiculous that people in the far north have direct access to Marine Parade when neighbouring estates that rely on facilities in Marine Parade have zero or lauzy connections to the area. Please tell me how Kembangan, Chai Chee or Bedok North would get to Marine Parade? 134 was the correct thing to do. People in Sims Place rightfully deserved a connection to Marine Parade over their counterparts in AMK.
I suggest you keep these untrue things to yourself if you're not a woodlands resident.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:I feel like falling off my chair and laughing. Of course it can be cut. Most demand is not from BPJ or Woodlands to Marine Parade. Why would Woodlanders be going to Marine Parade? To use Parkway Parade and Marine Parade CC, because they don't have their own facilities? To attend school? Or to enjoy sea breeze?
It's ridiculous that people in the far north have direct access to Marine Parade when neighbouring estates that rely on facilities in Marine Parade have zero or lauzy connections to the area. Please tell me how Kembangan, Chai Chee or Bedok North would get to Marine Parade? 134 was the correct thing to do. People in Sims Place rightfully deserved a connection to Marine Parade over their counterparts in AMK.
Do you even have proof that more people from Sims Place go to MP than those from AMK?
Originally posted by array88:Do you even have proof that more people from Sims Place go to MP than those from AMK?
Yes, if not then why would LTA cut 76 back?
I am a Marine Parade resident, and have ridden these services and can vouch for the fact that this is the case for 76 as well as for 966 where most of the demand is from PP to Eunos (or at most Toa Payoh/CJC). I cannot give you any hard data, but as a private citizen I can make arguments based on day-to-day experiences living in the area. Like, people here depend on Marine Parade for basic facilities (i.e. shopping, marketing, schools etc). Why would somebody in AMK go all the way to Parkway Parade when they can go AMK hub? For schools in the area, you might find some.
Similarly for Woodlands? Ok, I'll give it to you that you have students studying in RP or NSFs who go to army camps in BPJ and Woodlands.
So, instead of telling me there is demand, can you at least tell me why there would be demand from AMK/Woodlands to MP and vice-versa. I don't expect there to be data. If you have data, then please share it here.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:I feel like falling off my chair and laughing. Of course it can be cut. Most demand is not from BPJ or Woodlands to Marine Parade. Why would Woodlanders be going to Marine Parade? To use Parkway Parade and Marine Parade CC, because they don't have their own facilities? To attend school? Or to enjoy sea breeze?
It's ridiculous that people in the far north have direct access to Marine Parade when neighbouring estates that rely on facilities in Marine Parade have zero or lauzy connections to the area. Please tell me how Kembangan, Chai Chee or Bedok North would get to Marine Parade? 134 was the correct thing to do. People in Sims Place rightfully deserved a connection to Marine Parade over their counterparts in AMK.
So just because your area lacks a direct bus to Marine Parade, you want to rid of other existing connections from other areas to Marine Parade. Isn't that like if you do not have something, you expect others not to have that something as well?
For 76, there are several alternatives (including the new 134) to justify its cutback to Eunos, even though I agree that the relability of the alternative buses needs to be stepped up and the publicity over the cutback needs to be better promoted. In addition, 76 also isn't exactly the fastest way to travel between Ang Mo Kio New Town and Marine Parade and probably wouldn't be as well-utilized along that stretch. I do not fully buy the benefit of the cutback in improving overall service efficiency, but it's not the worst cutback we've seen.
However, for 966, it is a relatively fast route compared to taking the MRT to travel between Woodlands, Bukit Panjang and Marine Parade (60-90 mins) by using the BKE and PIE. In addition, there is almost no heavily duplicating alternative service to 966.
In this case, it isn't about the residents of Woodlands and Bukit Panjang going to Marine Parade to use the facilities in Marine Parade. If not, why do we bother having Services 39, 85, 117, 161, 168, 858 and 969? By your logic, it's not like the residents residing in the East (Pasir Ris, Tampines & Bedok) or Northeast (Hougang, Sengkang & Punggol) needs to rely on the facilities in the North (Woodlands, Sembawang & Yishun) and vice versa right? The thing here is there are people residing in one part of Singapore that are required to work or study in places in another part of Singapore, which is why the above bus services even exist in the first place.
If what you are bothered about is the lack of a connection between Kembangan/Chai Chee/Bedok North and Marine Parade, we should be addressing that shortage instead and not wanting other connections eradicated. By eradicating 966 from Marine Parade, will there suddenly be an additional bus between the above 3 places and Marine Parade? (unless you amend 966 to those three places first and then Marine Parade then that's a different story)
If not, we might as well just have ONE bus service in every residential town or area that everyone will rely on to get to the nearest MRT station. Why bother having trunk services in the first place regardless of route length? Let's redesign Singapore's public bus network to just have short feeder services that link to the nearest MRT stations and force all commuters to use the rail network only for long distance travelling.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:Yes, if not then why would LTA cut 76 back?
I am a Marine Parade resident, and have ridden these services and can vouch for the fact that this is the case for 76 as well as for 966 where most of the demand is from PP to Eunos (or at most Toa Payoh/CJC). I cannot give you any hard data, but as a private citizen I can make arguments based on day-to-day experiences living in the area. Like, people here depend on Marine Parade for basic facilities (i.e. shopping, marketing, schools etc). Why would somebody in AMK go all the way to Parkway Parade when they can go AMK hub? For schools in the area, you might find some.
Similarly for Woodlands? Ok, I'll give it to you that you have students studying in RP or NSFs who go to army camps in BPJ and Woodlands.
So, instead of telling me there is demand, can you at least tell me why there would be demand from AMK/Woodlands to MP and vice-versa. I don't expect there to be data. If you have data, then please share it here.
Hi mr sbs6465E, that is why people are discussing that time. Far flung towns have direct linkage to marine parade when nearby towns do not have direct buses to marine parade area. That is the whole irony. This is due to the yr 1990s era of town planning where many far towns are connected directly by public buses. However in yr 2010s era, the paradigm shifts to short haul routes where nearby towns are connected in preference to last time. To shift away completely from the old theory takes years and expects lots of resistance. Cheers. Thanks.
So just because your area lacks a direct bus to Marine Parade, you want to rid of other existing connections from other areas to Marine Parade. Isn't that like if you do not have something, you expect others not to have that something as well?
For 76, there are several alternatives (including the new 134) to justify its cutback to Eunos, even though I agree that the relability of the alternative buses needs to be stepped up and the publicity over the cutback needs to be better promoted. In addition, 76 also isn't exactly the fastest way to travel between Ang Mo Kio New Town and Marine Parade and probably wouldn't be as well-utilized along that stretch. I do not fully buy the benefit of the cutback in improving overall service efficiency, but it's not the worst cutback we've seen.
However, for 966, it is a relatively fast route compared to taking the MRT to travel between Woodlands, Bukit Panjang and Marine Parade (60-90 mins) by using the BKE and PIE. In addition, there is almost no heavily duplicating alternative service to 966.
In this case, it isn't about the residents of Woodlands and Bukit Panjang going to Marine Parade to use the facilities in Marine Parade. If not, why do we bother having Services 39, 85, 117, 161, 168, 858 and 969? By your logic, it's not like the residents residing in the East (Pasir Ris, Tampines & Bedok) or Northeast (Hougang, Sengkang & Punggol) needs to rely on the facilities in the North (Woodlands, Sembawang & Yishun) and vice versa right? The thing here is there are people residing in one part of Singapore that are required to work or study in places in another part of Singapore, which is why the above bus services even exist in the first place.
If what you are bothered about is the lack of a connection between Kembangan/Chai Chee/Bedok North and Marine Parade, we should be addressing that shortage instead and not wanting other connections eradicated. By eradicating 966 from Marine Parade, will there suddenly be an additional bus between the above 3 places and Marine Parade? (unless you amend 966 to those three places first and then Marine Parade then that's a different story)
If not, we might as well just have ONE bus service in every residential town or area that everyone will rely on to get to the nearest MRT station. Why bother having trunk services in the first place regardless of route length? Let's redesign Singapore's public bus network to just have short feeder services that link to the nearest MRT stations and force all commuters to use the rail network only for long distance travelling.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:Yes, if not then why would LTA cut 76 back?
I am a Marine Parade resident, and have ridden these services and can vouch for the fact that this is the case for 76 as well as for 966 where most of the demand is from PP to Eunos (or at most Toa Payoh/CJC). I cannot give you any hard data, but as a private citizen I can make arguments based on day-to-day experiences living in the area. Like, people here depend on Marine Parade for basic facilities (i.e. shopping, marketing, schools etc). Why would somebody in AMK go all the way to Parkway Parade when they can go AMK hub? For schools in the area, you might find some.
Similarly for Woodlands? Ok, I'll give it to you that you have students studying in RP or NSFs who go to army camps in BPJ and Woodlands.
So, instead of telling me there is demand, can you at least tell me why there would be demand from AMK/Woodlands to MP and vice-versa. I don't expect there to be data. If you have data, then please share it here.
how about this: we remove all services in MP and leave only 134 as its enough for u?
Lets say that I am a resident of Woodlands and I am a TP student. I cant possibly change my poly course because that is the only course available there and I want to pursue my dreams. There is 168 which goes there and it is 7am. My class is at 8am and I dont want to waste time getting there. If I were to take the MRT via CCL & EWL, I will be late due to the number of lines of take. I dont even want to take 23 to TP from Tampines as I would wasting my money & time when 168 is very direct and takes at most 45 minutes even with expressway jams. Most students from TP are actually from the North. Thats why 118 is very crowded as it also runs on TPE. People just want to go home fast after work as they are obviously tired. Even if the MRT is fast, we cannot rely too much on it as more people are taking it which means increasing chances of breakdowns. If you are talking about long-winded services like 167 & 980, thats another story. They dont run on expressways but are mainly running on long roads like Upp Thomson Rd due to lack of routes going to city from there. They may be amended to another interchange soon where the demand is higher from there compared to SEM, in which future routes may replace them once the NSE is ready.
P.S. Mr carbikebus, this is what I am saying about 76 & 857. 857 gives a faster route back to Yishun from Little India than the MRT. 76 was amended because no one really goes to MT via 76 from AMK when the MRT provides a faster journey although you may need to take 134/150 too, but the point is that people want to go home fast after work. Dont forget that buses are supposed to serve areas not served by the MRT like Oxley BizHub at Tai Seng where there is a significant number of workers working there. Thats why you will see buses like 8 & 24 which transport them back to their homes instead of walking to Tai Seng MRT from there which is generally far (distance)
Originally posted by SMB1368T:Lets say that I am a resident of Woodlands and I am a TP student. I cant possibly change my poly course because that is the only course available there and I want to pursue my dreams. There is 168 which goes there and it is 7am. My class is at 8am and I dont want to waste time getting there. If I were to take the MRT via CCL & EWL, I will be late due to the number of lines of take. I dont even want to take 23 to TP from Tampines as I would wasting my money & time when 168 is very direct and takes at most 45 minutes even with expressway jams. Most students from TP are actually from the North. Thats why 118 is very crowded as it also runs on TPE. People just want to go home fast after work as they are obviously tired. Even if the MRT is fast, we cannot rely too much on it as more people are taking it which means increasing chances of breakdowns. If you are talking about long-winded services like 167 & 980, thats another story. They dont run on expressways but are mainly running on long roads like Upp Thomson Rd due to lack of routes going to city from there. They may be amended to another interchange soon where the demand is higher from there compared to SEM, in which future routes may replace them once the NSE is ready.
P.S. Mr carbikebus, this is what I am saying about 76 & 857. 857 gives a faster route back to Yishun from Little India than the MRT. 76 was amended because no one really goes to MT via 76 from AMK when the MRT provides a faster journey although you may need to take 134/150 too, but the point is that people want to go home fast after work. Dont forget that buses are supposed to serve areas not served by the MRT like Oxley BizHub at Tai Seng where there is a significant number of workers working there. Thats why you will see buses like 8 & 24 which transport them back to their homes instead of walking to Tai Seng MRT from there which is generally far (distance)
is 76 the victim of CCL Rationalisation third phase?
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr sbs6465E, that is why people are discussing that time. Far flung towns have direct linkage to marine parade when nearby towns do not have direct buses to marine parade area. That is the whole irony. This is due to the yr 1990s era of town planning where many far towns are connected directly by public buses. However in yr 2010s era, the paradigm shifts to short haul routes where nearby towns are connected in preference to last time. To shift away completely from the old theory takes years and expects lots of resistance. Cheers. Thanks.
Thank you Mr dupdup77 for recognising this irony.
Originally posted by SBS7557R:So just because your area lacks a direct bus to Marine Parade, you want to rid of other existing connections from other areas to Marine Parade. Isn't that like if you do not have something, you expect others not to have that something as well?
For 76, there are several alternatives (including the new 134) to justify its cutback to Eunos, even though I agree that the relability of the alternative buses needs to be stepped up and the publicity over the cutback needs to be better promoted. In addition, 76 also isn't exactly the fastest way to travel between Ang Mo Kio New Town and Marine Parade and probably wouldn't be as well-utilized along that stretch. I do not fully buy the benefit of the cutback in improving overall service efficiency, but it's not the worst cutback we've seen.
However, for 966, it is a relatively fast route compared to taking the MRT to travel between Woodlands, Bukit Panjang and Marine Parade (60-90 mins) by using the BKE and PIE. In addition, there is almost no heavily duplicating alternative service to 966.
In this case, it isn't about the residents of Woodlands and Bukit Panjang going to Marine Parade to use the facilities in Marine Parade. If not, why do we bother having Services 39, 85, 117, 161, 168, 858 and 969? By your logic, it's not like the residents residing in the East (Pasir Ris, Tampines & Bedok) or Northeast (Hougang, Sengkang & Punggol) needs to rely on the facilities in the North (Woodlands, Sembawang & Yishun) and vice versa right? The thing here is there are people residing in one part of Singapore that are required to work or study in places in another part of Singapore, which is why the above bus services even exist in the first place.
If what you are bothered about is the lack of a connection between Kembangan/Chai Chee/Bedok North and Marine Parade, we should be addressing that shortage instead and not wanting other connections eradicated. By eradicating 966 from Marine Parade, will there suddenly be an additional bus between the above 3 places and Marine Parade? (unless you amend 966 to those three places first and then Marine Parade then that's a different story)
If not, we might as well just have ONE bus service in every residential town or area that everyone will rely on to get to the nearest MRT station. Why bother having trunk services in the first place regardless of route length? Let's redesign Singapore's public bus network to just have short feeder services that link to the nearest MRT stations and force all commuters to use the rail network only for long distance travelling.
Services 39, 85, 118, 161, 168, 858 and 969 are all different stories. In these cases you have Changi Airport, Tampines, CBP, Seletar etc as major employment centres that feed into these routes. The same cannot be said of Marine Parade. There's nothing wrong with having a direct link to Woodlands - there are people with genuine travel needs. But the problem in Marine Parade is that there are too many services and thus LTA is reluctant to introduce new services. Yet, the area is actually very poorly connected to neighbouring estates. So, something needs to go. It's time to re-examine some of these longer routes that don't make sense.
Originally posted by SMB1368T:Lets say that I am a resident of Woodlands and I am a TP student. I cant possibly change my poly course because that is the only course available there and I want to pursue my dreams. There is 168 which goes there and it is 7am. My class is at 8am and I dont want to waste time getting there. If I were to take the MRT via CCL & EWL, I will be late due to the number of lines of take. I dont even want to take 23 to TP from Tampines as I would wasting my money & time when 168 is very direct and takes at most 45 minutes even with expressway jams. Most students from TP are actually from the North. Thats why 118 is very crowded as it also runs on TPE. People just want to go home fast after work as they are obviously tired. Even if the MRT is fast, we cannot rely too much on it as more people are taking it which means increasing chances of breakdowns. If you are talking about long-winded services like 167 & 980, thats another story. They dont run on expressways but are mainly running on long roads like Upp Thomson Rd due to lack of routes going to city from there. They may be amended to another interchange soon where the demand is higher from there compared to SEM, in which future routes may replace them once the NSE is ready.
Valid concerns, but I can tell you LTA will not provide a long bus route for one Polytechnic. 168 and 118 do not exist solely because of TP.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:Services 39, 85, 118, 161, 168, 858 and 969 are all different stories. In these cases you have Changi Airport, Tampines, CBP, Seletar etc as major employment centres that feed into these routes. The same cannot be said of Marine Parade. There's nothing wrong with having a direct link to Woodlands - there are people with genuine travel needs. But the problem in Marine Parade is that there are too many services and thus LTA is reluctant to introduce new services. Yet, the area is actually very poorly connected to neighbouring estates. So, something needs to go. It's time to re-examine some of these longer routes that don't make sense.
Bet you have NEVER taken 966 before. If you havent then stfu.
966 usually is at least fully seated on the express. It remains this way until Eunos Link, where 5-10 pax alight. At Eunos MRT even less will alight.
The HUGE bulk alight at MP. A place with no MRT and no alternatives as 7557R have correctly pointed out, it is the artery for northern residents as it provides the most direct (literally, even as the crow flies) and fastest link to MP.
I should be the one falling off the chair and laughing at you for being so ignorant to the surroundings of MP. Let's forget about the one and only famous East Coast Park and also one of the largest mall in SG being there first, many people work at the offices in PP itself and the countless agencies in the shophouses at Katong. It is home to some of the renowned schools in Singapore: VJ, KC (not holding), Tao Nan to list a few. Yes, ppl in the north do not have these "good" schs back there. So foolish of you to ignore this bunch?
What do you actually mean by being "poorly connected to surrounding estates"? What are you treating svcs 15, 31, 43 as?! These svcs amongst some others in MP provide a intratown network so dense one simply couldnt have asked for more. You want personal chauffeur svc to ur doorstep?
Going by your line of logic I could name a dozen svcs that couldve been cut too. For eg, I can cut svc 853C since nobody would go to MP from Yishun anyways. In fact, any svc would have been cuttable since the other end " wouldnt come all the way here". Why 966? You hate it a lot?
So why not I cut 48 too? Anyways there is still 197 to bugis and not many ppl go to KK in the first place, leave alone everyday. And c'mon, who the fuck even goes to Buona Vista?
Originally posted by SMB128B:Bet you have NEVER taken 966 before. If you havent then stfu.
966 usually is at least fully seated on the express. It remains this way until Eunos Link, where 5-10 pax alight. At Eunos MRT even less will alight.
The HUGE bulk alight at MP. A place with no MRT and no alternatives as 7557R have correctly pointed out, it is the artery for northern residents as it provides the most direct (literally, even as the crow flies) and fastest link to MP.
I should be the one falling off the chair and laughing at you for being so ignorant to the surroundings of MP. Let's forget about the one and only famous East Coast Park and also one of the largest mall in SG being there first, many people work at the offices in PP itself and the countless agencies in the shophouses at Katong. It is home to some of the renowned schools in Singapore: VJ, KC (not holding), Tao Nan to list a few. Yes, ppl in the north do not have these "good" schs back there. So foolish of you to ignore this bunch?
What do you actually mean by being "poorly connected to surrounding estates"? What are you treating svcs 15, 31, 43 as?! These svcs amongst some others in MP provide a intratown network so dense one simply couldnt have asked for more. You want personal chauffeur svc to ur doorstep?
Going by your line of logic I could name a dozen svcs that couldve been cut too. For eg, I can cut svc 853C since nobody would go to MP from Yishun anyways. In fact, any svc would have been cuttable since the other end " wouldnt come all the way here". Why 966? You hate it a lot?
So why not I cut 48 too? Anyways there is still 197 to bugis and not many ppl go to KK in the first place, leave alone everyday. And c'mon, who the fuck even goes to Buona Vista?
I have ridden 966 on various occassionsa nd never said the majority of riders alight at Eunos. But the majority of demand to Marine Parade is from Toa Payoh (faster than 31), Kallang Industrial Estate, and Eunos.
Yes, there is some demand from Woodlands, but you are overstating it. PP is a regional mall, and definitely not that different from what you'd find in the far North or in nearby areas. There cetainly are offices in Katong, and in PP/Parkway Central, but it's not a major employment centre. As for schools, I can attest to the fact that students who live in BPJ/Woodlands are a very very small minority (used to teach in these schools). Why would they come out here, when you have schools like NJC, SJI etc that all much closer. And the logic is just warped... A much larger majority of students live in Kembangan, Bedok North or Chai Chee. And these students don't have direct access.
Take Kembangan for instance. Say you stay in Lengkong Empat and study in Victoria School. There is no viable way of reaching school by public transport. For Chai Chee, it's a very roundabout way of taking 222 to Bedok Interchange and then transfering.
And don't put words into my mouth. I said 966 can possibly be cut. I didn't say it had to be 966. CBD services can't be cut because the area has no MRT. But go and suggest a route from Eunos to Kembangan/Chai Chee via Marine Parade. I've done it before and LTA will say cannot because there will be too much duplication with 15 & 966 that connect Eunos to PP. So do you understand how a Woodlands service can impede improvements to the network in the area? That was why LTA had to cut back 76, because 134 is essentially a duplicate of 76.
"These svcs amongst some others in MP provide a intratown network so dense one simply couldnt have asked for more"
You very clearly don't live here. Yes, intratown within Marine Parade is good, but inter-town to Siglap, Kembangan, Chai Chee, Bedok North, don't have. Sims Place and Geylang East Central were recently added. The problem is the network is too dense in going to places like Bedok, Paya Lebar, Tanah Merah and Kallang, etc.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:I have ridden 966 on various occassionsa nd never said the majority of riders alight at Eunos. But the majority of demand to Marine Parade is from Toa Payoh (faster than 31), Kallang Industrial Estate, and Eunos.
Yes, there is some demand from Woodlands, but you are overstating it. PP is a regional mall, and definitely not that different from what you'd find in the far North or in nearby areas. There cetainly are offices in Katong, and in PP/Parkway Central, but it's not a major employment centre. As for schools, I can attest to the fact that students who live in BPJ/Woodlands are a very very small minority (used to teach in these schools). Why would they come out here, when you have schools like NJC, SJI etc that all much closer. And the logic is just warped... A much larger majority of students live in Kembangan, Bedok North or Chai Chee. And these students don't have direct access.
Take Kembangan for instance. Say you stay in Lengkong Empat and study in Victoria School. There is no viable way of reaching school by public transport. For Chai Chee, it's a very roundabout way of taking 222 to Bedok Interchange and then transfering.
And don't put words into my mouth. I said 966 can possibly be cut. I didn't say it had to be 966. CBD services can't be cut because the area has no MRT. But go and suggest a route from Eunos to Kembangan/Chai Chee via Marine Parade. I've done it before and LTA will say cannot because there will be too much duplication with 15 & 966 that connect Eunos to PP. So do you understand how a Woodlands service can impede improvements to the network in the area? That was why LTA had to cut back 76, because 134 is essentially a duplicate of 76.
"These svcs amongst some others in MP provide a intratown network so dense one simply couldnt have asked for more"
You very clearly don't live here. Yes, intratown within Marine Parade is good, but inter-town to Siglap, Kembangan, Chai Chee, Bedok North, don't have. Sims Place and Geylang East Central were recently added. The problem is the network is too dense in going to places like Bedok, Paya Lebar, Tanah Merah and Kallang, etc.
I wanna ask you. How many people EVEN stays in the whatever Lengkong Empat that you stated, and even take the bus, let alone go to Marine Parade specifically?
Have you had any sense when you named those places? Those places are the really small estate zones which are in fact sub-parts of only a town. So little people to account for, and you EXPECT a svc dedicated to each and every community? Btw, if you wanna talk about access to basic commodites, Chai Chee, Fengshan etc. Are actually closer to the more-equipped Bedok Town Ctr than MP, so your argument clearly crumbles within itself.
It's simple supply and demand.
When there is no demand for it producers won't supply. If they do they are at loss. And since govt runs the buses the taxpayers end up paying for it. Is it a justified use of funds then? Clearly not.
To put things in another persective. 966 is the ONLY svc in the ENTIRE north/northwest district that provides a 7-days-a-week connection to MP. We are not even talking about direct bus connection here. Many in the north actually transfer to 966 to get to MP. The svc is that popular. We are not even talking about 966 serving an estate, or even a town. That SOLE svc serves AN ENTIRE DISTRICT. Compare that to the east, where you have a svc to almost EVERY EWL station on the eastern stretch. Give you MULTIPLE options to get to a town in the east you dont want. Now you want a chauffeur svc to doorstep then you happy? Now you want to axe the lifeline for the whole of the north, just to benefit the measly dozens that live in that few estates? What bloody logic is this!
I really don't know if you are the one ignorant or I am the one. I have a friend who used to study in a sec school in Clementi, choosing to opt for a junior college in the east. I'm sure there are many others too. JAE is a cruel process and many students often have to forsake travelling time to attend the next best alternative that they are left with.
Regarding your suggestion about MP - CC. In the first place, have you reflected on the route that you have proposed? Couldn't you have suggested another routing that would have prevented the duplication? And cutting routes isn't that easy. It involves cost-benefit measurement, and no just blindly cutting. 76 was cut as it was clear that it really is a minority for passengers to warm their seats for almost an hour from AMK to get to PP. The same is definitely not true for 966.
Originally posted by SMB128B:I wanna ask you. How many people EVEN stays in the whatever Lengkong Empat that you stated, and even take the bus, let alone go to Marine Parade specifically?
Have you had any sense when you named those places? Those places are the really small estate zones which are in fact sub-parts of only a town. So little people to account for, and you EXPECT a svc dedicated to each and every community? Btw, if you wanna talk about access to basic commodites, Chai Chee, Fengshan etc. Are actually closer to the more-equipped Bedok Town Ctr than MP, so your argument clearly crumbles within itself.
It's simple supply and demand.
When there is no demand for it producers won't supply. If they do they are at loss. And since govt runs the buses the taxpayers end up paying for it. Is it a justified use of funds then? Clearly not.
To put things in another persective. 966 is the ONLY svc in the ENTIRE north/northwest district that provides a 7-days-a-week connection to MP. We are not even talking about direct bus connection here. Many in the north actually transfer to 966 to get to MP. The svc is that popular. We are not even talking about 966 serving an estate, or even a town. That SOLE svc serves AN ENTIRE DISTRICT. Compare that to the east, where you have a svc to almost EVERY EWL station on the eastern stretch. Give you MULTIPLE options to get to a town in the east you dont want. Now you want a chauffeur svc to doorstep then you happy? Now you want to axe the lifeline for the whole of the north, just to benefit the measly dozens that live in that few estates? What bloody logic is this!
I really don't know if you are the one ignorant or I am the one. I have a friend who used to study in a sec school in Clementi, choosing to opt for a junior college in the east. I'm sure there are many others too. JAE is a cruel process and many students often have to forsake travelling time to attend the next best alternative that they are left with.
Regarding your suggestion about MP - CC. In the first place, have you reflected on the route that you have proposed? Couldn't you have suggested another routing that would have prevented the duplication? And cutting routes isn't that easy. It involves cost-benefit measurement, and no just blindly cutting. 76 was cut as it was clear that it really is a minority for passengers to warm their seats for almost an hour from AMK to get to PP. The same is definitely not true for 966.
As JAE is a cruel process, many students also forsake their time to move house like earthquakes. From Simei or Eunos suddenly become Jurong East because of SP. From Changi Court suddenly become Tuas West.
There is a private house development at Tuas West. Looks like for Tuas West Extension, it will operate with sizeable demand.
Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:As JAE is a cruel process, many students also forsake their time to move house like earthquakes. From Simei or Eunos suddenly become Jurong East because of SP. From Changi Court suddenly become Tuas West.
There is a private house development at Tuas West. Looks like for Tuas West Extension, it will operate with sizeable demand.
Houses along the East Coast happens to be expensive, even without the presence of the MRT. It is an assumption that everybody have the money to afford shifting suddenly from like Woodlands to MP.
Even if it means shifting into nearby eastern neighbourhoods, not guarantee that a house could be found, and even if found may not be as convenient in location as their previous houses.
With Singaporeans families generally having more than one child, siblings also play a role in the decision, and sometimes they may eventually settle at their current location of residence.
Hence the need to retain transportation for these students.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:I have ridden 966 on various occassionsa nd never said the majority of riders alight at Eunos. But the majority of demand to Marine Parade is from Toa Payoh (faster than 31), Kallang Industrial Estate, and Eunos.
Yes, there is some demand from Woodlands, but you are overstating it. PP is a regional mall, and definitely not that different from what you'd find in the far North or in nearby areas. There cetainly are offices in Katong, and in PP/Parkway Central, but it's not a major employment centre. As for schools, I can attest to the fact that students who live in BPJ/Woodlands are a very very small minority (used to teach in these schools). Why would they come out here, when you have schools like NJC, SJI etc that all much closer. And the logic is just warped... A much larger majority of students live in Kembangan, Bedok North or Chai Chee. And these students don't have direct access.
Take Kembangan for instance. Say you stay in Lengkong Empat and study in Victoria School. There is no viable way of reaching school by public transport. For Chai Chee, it's a very roundabout way of taking 222 to Bedok Interchange and then transfering.
And don't put words into my mouth. I said 966 can possibly be cut. I didn't say it had to be 966. CBD services can't be cut because the area has no MRT. But go and suggest a route from Eunos to Kembangan/Chai Chee via Marine Parade. I've done it before and LTA will say cannot because there will be too much duplication with 15 & 966 that connect Eunos to PP. So do you understand how a Woodlands service can impede improvements to the network in the area? That was why LTA had to cut back 76, because 134 is essentially a duplicate of 76.
"These svcs amongst some others in MP provide a intratown network so dense one simply couldnt have asked for more"
You very clearly don't live here. Yes, intratown within Marine Parade is good, but inter-town to Siglap, Kembangan, Chai Chee, Bedok North, don't have. Sims Place and Geylang East Central were recently added. The problem is the network is too dense in going to places like Bedok, Paya Lebar, Tanah Merah and Kallang, etc.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:I have ridden 966 on various occassionsa nd never said the majority of riders alight at Eunos. But the majority of demand to Marine Parade is from Toa Payoh (faster than 31), Kallang Industrial Estate, and Eunos.
Yes, there is some demand from Woodlands, but you are overstating it. PP is a regional mall, and definitely not that different from what you'd find in the far North or in nearby areas. There cetainly are offices in Katong, and in PP/Parkway Central, but it's not a major employment centre. As for schools, I can attest to the fact that students who live in BPJ/Woodlands are a very very small minority (used to teach in these schools). Why would they come out here, when you have schools like NJC, SJI etc that all much closer. And the logic is just warped... A much larger majority of students live in Kembangan, Bedok North or Chai Chee. And these students don't have direct access.
Take Kembangan for instance. Say you stay in Lengkong Empat and study in Victoria School. There is no viable way of reaching school by public transport. For Chai Chee, it's a very roundabout way of taking 222 to Bedok Interchange and then transfering.
And don't put words into my mouth. I said 966 can possibly be cut. I didn't say it had to be 966. CBD services can't be cut because the area has no MRT. But go and suggest a route from Eunos to Kembangan/Chai Chee via Marine Parade. I've done it before and LTA will say cannot because there will be too much duplication with 15 & 966 that connect Eunos to PP. So do you understand how a Woodlands service can impede improvements to the network in the area? That was why LTA had to cut back 76, because 134 is essentially a duplicate of 76.
"These svcs amongst some others in MP provide a intratown network so dense one simply couldnt have asked for more"
You very clearly don't live here. Yes, intratown within Marine Parade is good, but inter-town to Siglap, Kembangan, Chai Chee, Bedok North, don't have. Sims Place and Geylang East Central were recently added. The problem is the network is too dense in going to places like Bedok, Paya Lebar, Tanah Merah and Kallang, etc.
Can't you think of some alternative suggestions other than stubbornly insist on the Eunos - MP - Kembangan/Chai Chee service? Like starting from Bedok/CBP instead and go to MP via Chai Chee / Kembangan? Or simply extending 134/150?
Just because your area doesn't have good connections doesn't make other services at Marine Parade any less necessary.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:I have ridden 966 on various occassionsa nd never said the majority of riders alight at Eunos. But the majority of demand to Marine Parade is from Toa Payoh (faster than 31), Kallang Industrial Estate, and Eunos.
Yes, there is some demand from Woodlands, but you are overstating it. PP is a regional mall, and definitely not that different from what you'd find in the far North or in nearby areas. There cetainly are offices in Katong, and in PP/Parkway Central, but it's not a major employment centre. As for schools, I can attest to the fact that students who live in BPJ/Woodlands are a very very small minority (used to teach in these schools). Why would they come out here, when you have schools like NJC, SJI etc that all much closer. And the logic is just warped... A much larger majority of students live in Kembangan, Bedok North or Chai Chee. And these students don't have direct access.
Take Kembangan for instance. Say you stay in Lengkong Empat and study in Victoria School. There is no viable way of reaching school by public transport. For Chai Chee, it's a very roundabout way of taking 222 to Bedok Interchange and then transfering.
And don't put words into my mouth. I said 966 can possibly be cut. I didn't say it had to be 966. CBD services can't be cut because the area has no MRT. But go and suggest a route from Eunos to Kembangan/Chai Chee via Marine Parade. I've done it before and LTA will say cannot because there will be too much duplication with 15 & 966 that connect Eunos to PP. So do you understand how a Woodlands service can impede improvements to the network in the area? That was why LTA had to cut back 76, because 134 is essentially a duplicate of 76.
"These svcs amongst some others in MP provide a intratown network so dense one simply couldnt have asked for more"
You very clearly don't live here. Yes, intratown within Marine Parade is good, but inter-town to Siglap, Kembangan, Chai Chee, Bedok North, don't have. Sims Place and Geylang East Central were recently added. The problem is the network is too dense in going to places like Bedok, Paya Lebar, Tanah Merah and Kallang, etc.
For the queries about a lack of connection between Bedok North and Marine Parade, I do not exactly understand your concerns. Isn't Bedok Int located in Bedok North? Aren't there already FOUR bus services all this while (16 and its predecessor CSS 608, 31, 196 & 197 and its predecessor 41) that provides the connections? Even if a good number of residential blocks in Bedok North are located slightly further away from Bedok Bus Interchange, it is usually just ONE transfer away. Moreover, 31 also serves several parts of Bedok North beyond the bus interchange even if 16, 196 and 197 doesn't do so. If the "Bedok North" you're referring to is Bedok Reservoir, 15 is there for the eastern part of Bedok Reservoir.
Are you proposing a bus service that starts from either Bedok Int or Bedok North Depot that takes a long detour around the more secluded neighbourhoods of Bedok North and then looping at Marine Parade, or is it a service that starts from a secluded part of Bedok North (e.g. Bedok North St 3) that directly links to Marine Parade? A service from Bedok Int to Marine Parade via Bedok North would probably not be viable, but maybe a BNDEP - Marine Parade via Bedok North service is possible. As array88 mentioned, CBP - Marine Parade via Bedok North is not viable either, given that there's already 47.
With regards to Chai Chee, maybe we could have either 1 of the 3 terminating services follow 229 to Bedok South Rd. However, that would be considered long winded by other users here. Or like I said before, let's bring back the good old Chai Chee Bus Terminal, which 41 once terminated at and linked DIRECTLY to Marine Parade. To correct your post regarding Chai Chee, the connections between Chai Chee and Bedok is also served by 229, and people who take 222 will not take it all the way to Bedok Int, but alight at New Upp Changi Rd instead. The walk from New Upp Changi Rd to Bedok Int wouldn't even take very long and you have another option to use the underpass to transfer to 31 at the opposite bus stop.
Siglap does have 401 to connect to Marine Parade during the weekends and public holidays. Maybe introduce a 401M (like some users suggested here) on weekdays to exclusively connect between Siglap and Marine Parade?
A direct connection between Kembangan and Marine Parade is justifiable if there is sufficient passenger demand. However, all three areas (Kembangan, Siglap & Bedok North), like SMB128B said, are clearly closer to Bedok Town Centre. Wouldn't it make more sense for the residents in these areas to go to Bedok Town Centre for the "basic facilities" that you mentioned?
If it's for students getting to school, it is understandably a different situation. However, would the operating hours as a result have to be tweaked to just peak hour operation like 181M, 900A and 902 if the bulk of the passenger demand for your proposed connections are students? If the demographics of the passenger demand for the proposed services are homogenous, then of course a full day route is best.
Originally posted by SBS6465E:Services 39, 85, 118, 161, 168, 858 and 969 are all different stories. In these cases you have Changi Airport, Tampines, CBP, Seletar etc as major employment centres that feed into these routes. The same cannot be said of Marine Parade. There's nothing wrong with having a direct link to Woodlands - there are people with genuine travel needs. But the problem in Marine Parade is that there are too many services and thus LTA is reluctant to introduce new services. Yet, the area is actually very poorly connected to neighbouring estates. So, something needs to go. It's time to re-examine some of these longer routes that don't make sense.
Bus planning is not a zero sum game. God forbid you become one of the LTA planners! 966 doesn't make sense? Wake up and smell the coffee.
Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:As JAE is a cruel process, many students also forsake their time to move house like earthquakes. From Simei or Eunos suddenly become Jurong East because of SP. From Changi Court suddenly become Tuas West.
There is a private house development at Tuas West. Looks like for Tuas West Extension, it will operate with sizeable demand.
I know Raffles Marina is there, but private houses? just wow
All, 5 weeks after March 20 implementation, the petition has 978 signatures, 22 short of the 1000 signatures initially intended. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by dupdup77:All, 5 weeks after March 20 implementation, the petition has 978 signatures, 22 short of the 1000 signatures initially intended. Cheers. Thanks.
the goal was never 1000 to begin with, it was 600 as LTA has mentioned that only 500 commuters would be affected by amendments at information panels at the bus carnival. The website only allows us to place 1000 as a minimum. Thus we have exceeded our expectations by 378 signatures. Also, we are still consulting relevant authorities to help attain our direct link back. Hope you understand. Cheers.