Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr SMB128B, just ask any 10 people out there (not those in bus forums) and most will tell you they will rather take MRT than 12E. The perception that bus routes are lengthy are stuck in people minds and will not go away even if you take the kind intention to explain to them. Most people are already used to MRT with the Station names being the only thing they need to remember rather than the bus stop and road names. Cheers. Thanks.
I already did actl. I stay near where 12e plies and used to study near where 12e plies too. Many of my friends have switched to 12e after my recommendation, which proves my point that publicity plays a huge role in the success of the route.
And so what if there is a perception? Does it mean we stop trying? So all the new express routes by LTA under BCM, all for nothing one? If there is a perception isn't the solution to break it? I also know got perception what. You like the perception to be there? Is this why you always reject the idea of express routes?
Originally posted by Marvel68:I'm a somewhat frequent user of 12e as I use it for my commute from my school in the east to New Bridge Rd sometimes, and from what I observe, it takes me on average 10+ minutes longer to get to Chinatown via 12e as compared to DTL, which by itself is a 30 minutes journey. Not too bad I would say, if I'm not in a rush. Also noted that people take 12e as an alternative to 12 between Pasir Ris and Tanah Merah MRT and from TNM to Bedok South. On average there would be like 10-15 pax on board but by the time the bus touches ECP, the number of pax would have already halved (usually most of the pax who board 12e at Pasir Ris, Tampines or Simei would have alighted at Bedok South). At Bugis Junction, most of the remaining pax would have alighted leaving me as the only pax on board. From Bugis to Kampong Bahru, the bus would practically be running empty.
Personally, I would say the main factor that puts me off from taking 12e excluding travel time and fare is its low frequency (if I miss the bus I might as well take DTL than wait another 20-30 mins).
12e, as with many other express routes, works on the concept of a suburban intercity route rather than a commuter trunk. This is why the idea is for travellers to plan their journey ahead for their long distance travel. This also ensures maximum catchment and revenue as the reduction in catchment areas is compensated by a reduction in operational costs with less buses that carries more.
The main reason why this is currently not working in Singapore can be attributed to how this habit has not yet been instilled in Singaporeans. Otherwise, the 30 mins freq won't be a problem at all.
The exception is if the demand picks up to a sufficiently high level for such a service to be more frequent, such as 190.
I would agree that with DTL 12e would have a struggle getting pax at Tamp East to Chinatown. But in Simei quite a number actually take 12e to town leh.
Hahahaha make sense also
svc 20 has around 40-50 pax boarding at EXPO MRT, has taken away loading from svc 47 at Tanah Merah from what I can see.
Loading has dropped on svc 28, 67, 222 from Bedok North towards Bedok MRT.
137 loading has improved quite a bit. Easily touches 60-70 pax in AM towards Bedok North MRT from Bedok North St 3. DDs can be introduced for slots at 7.30 - 7.50 am. Can start with 3 DDs.
Originally posted by SMB128B:12e, as with many other express routes, works on the concept of a suburban intercity route rather than a commuter trunk. This is why the idea is for travellers to plan their journey ahead for their long distance travel. This also ensures maximum catchment and revenue as the reduction in catchment areas is compensated by a reduction in operational costs with less buses that carries more.
The main reason why this is currently not working in Singapore can be attributed to how this habit has not yet been instilled in Singaporeans. Otherwise, the 30 mins freq won't be a problem at all.
The exception is if the demand picks up to a sufficiently high level for such a service to be more frequent, such as 190.
I would agree that with DTL 12e would have a struggle getting pax at Tamp East to Chinatown. But in Simei quite a number actually take 12e to town leh.
Taken 12e quite often, currently staying in Bedok South area and working in Clarke Quay/Chinatown area.
1) For me, it is faster using 12e and i can save at least 10 mins travelling time as compared to MRT. (Bus to Tanah Merah -> EWL -> NEL). Not to mention, it is direct and you are always guaranteed a seat
2) Loading has improved for certain periods that i observed - weekday AM/PM Peak and even weekend nights from Town to Bedok area, upper deck can be 3/5 full. The drawback for this service though is like what other members pointed out, buses can be empty (AM off peak eastbound trip and PM off peak citybound trip)
3) Strict adherence to schedule - buses tend to crawl before hitting expressway (experienced several times bus will just stop outside bugis+ for a few mins before proceeding to bus stop). If the runtime can be reduced slightly, it will be even more quicker.
Originally posted by SinkTel:Taken 12e quite often, currently staying in Bedok South area and working in Clarke Quay/Chinatown area.
1) For me, it is faster using 12e and i can save at least 10 mins travelling time as compared to MRT. (Bus to Tanah Merah -> EWL -> NEL). Not to mention, it is direct and you are always guaranteed a seat2) Loading has improved for certain periods that i observed - weekday AM/PM Peak and even weekend nights from Town to Bedok area, upper deck can be 3/5 full. The drawback for this service though is like what other members pointed out, buses can be empty (AM off peak eastbound trip and PM off peak citybound trip)
3) Strict adherence to schedule - buses tend to crawl before hitting expressway (experienced several times bus will just stop outside bugis+ for a few mins before proceeding to bus stop). If the runtime can be reduced slightly, it will be even more quicker.
Hi mr SinkTel, item 3 is a no-no. But no more like last time. They will not change for the passengers on board. What they did is really an overkill. Purposely stop with nobody in sight to pick up. Haha. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr lemon1974, most people will opt for mrt as a faster mode of travel rather than service 12e or 147e. Cheers. Thanks.
That is true if you are staying near to MRT Stations (1 or 2 bus stops away)
Imagine you are travelling from bus stops along Bedok South Road/Ave 1 heading to Bugis or the other way round, that's where 12e provides a really good alternative. It is defintely faster as compared to train. It's unfair to compare MRT and Buses travelling time in some cases since most do not stay within walking distance of MRT station.
On a side note, there is still some commuters mistaking it for 12 and only realising it when it hits ECP.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Loading has dropped on svc 28, 67, 222 from Bedok North towards Bedok MRT.
Im guessing it's becoz residents can now straight away take a train to the city instead of taking a bus to bedok, so loading dropped
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:137 loading has improved quite a bit. Easily touches 60-70 pax in AM towards Bedok North MRT from Bedok North St 3. DDs can be introduced for slots at 7.30 - 7.50 am. Can start with 3 DDs.
137 only need 3 weekdays peak hour DDs,Weekends very hard to cover within the industrial sector..All running with empty buses.
One more factor that lead to 60 pax is because of the 13-17 mins frequency.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:137 loading has improved quite a bit. Easily touches 60-70 pax in AM towards Bedok North MRT from Bedok North St 3. DDs can be introduced for slots at 7.30 - 7.50 am. Can start with 3 DDs.
We're no longer in the era where new services are introduced with an abundance of DDs (e.g. 46). The downside is that services which everyone thinks will do well with DDs are also having full SD fleets, like 137 and 974.
Originally posted by array88:We're no longer in the era where new services are introduced with an abundance of DDs (e.g. 46). The downside is that services which everyone thinks will do well with DDs are also having full SD fleets, like 137 and 974.
Which in my opinion is okay rather than just wasting resources anticipating that 3 years down the line, HC buses will be needed.
Take 117 for instance. First 2 years DD were an absolute waste when Canberra/Punggol Matilda/SAP and Yishun 1 was still under development. DDs should have added once these were up. 883 was started with full fleet SD, now upgraded to 50% DD fleet (the right thing to do!)
46, 119, 127 that received DDs under LTA, still don't warrant those DDs. Same case with 83.
137 now needs 3 split shift DDs. They should consider! 116 too needs 2 DDs.
DDs should be deployed to match demand and not for political wow-wow!!
974 still doing okay with SDs as people still need to get used to the route. Same with 68. Once demand surges, add DDs.
969 that should have been full fleet DD still has a huge number of rigids that makes me cringe.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Which in my opinion is okay rather than just wasting resources anticipating that 3 years down the line, HC buses will be needed.
Take 117 for instance. First 2 years DD were an absolute waste when Canberra/Punggol Matilda/SAP and Yishun 1 was still under development. DDs should have added once these were up. 883 was started with full fleet SD, now upgraded to 50% DD fleet (the right thing to do!)
46, 119, 127 that received DDs under LTA, still don't warrant those DDs. Same case with 83.
137 now needs 3 split shift DDs. They should consider! 116 too needs 2 DDs.
DDs should be deployed to match demand and not for political wow-wow!!
974 still doing okay with SDs as people still need to get used to the route. Same with 68. Once demand surges, add DDs.
969 that should have been full fleet DD still has a huge number of rigids that makes me cringe.
117 is way too much DD also...Can do with 7 DD and 6 SD.
883 good for 5 DD and 3 SD during weekdays and 3 DD and 2 SD for weekends
137 agreed.116 agreed.
974 would need 4 DD during weekdays.
969 yes
Both 39 and 85 only started using double deckers when Yishun Bus Interchange gets relocated. Prior to the yishun bus interchange relocation, it keep getting on adding buses. 103 extension also waited for 117 to come then double deckers will be deployed.
83 only started using double deckers because the average utilisation is btw Punggol and Sengkang, and don't see the need of double decker for 82.
974 is just a single decker bus route.
Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:Both 39 and 85 only started using double deckers when Yishun Bus Interchange gets relocated. Prior to the yishun bus interchange relocation, it keep getting on adding buses. 103 extension also waited for 117 to come then double deckers will be deployed.
83 only started using double deckers because the average utilisation is btw Punggol and Sengkang, and don't see the need of double decker for 82.
974 is just a single decker bus route.
103 surely need 2-3 DDs during peak hours.83 doesn’t need full DDs.
82 loadings can beat svc 46 & 47 loadings anytime
Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:Both 39 and 85 only started using double deckers when Yishun Bus Interchange gets relocated. Prior to the yishun bus interchange relocation, it keep getting on adding buses. 103 extension also waited for 117 to come then double deckers will be deployed.
83 only started using double deckers because the average utilisation is btw Punggol and Sengkang, and don't see the need of double decker for 82.
974 is just a single decker bus route.
39 doesn't need any more DDs.
85 is doing great with DDs currently. The loading between Sengkang West & Yishun has risen considerably with the new BTOs TOP.
103 is okay with 2 DDs. 117 is also ok IMO.
I don't understand your comment on 83. What does that even mean? 83 with a fleet of 8-9 buses should have 3 DDs, 6 SDs.
386 should have 5 SDs, 2 DDs on S-shift plying on 386A (should be introduced) that will terminate at Edgedale Plains end roundabout.
82 is okay with SDs.
974 right now is okay, surely will need 6 DDs in future for the peak loading between CCK and Boon Lay. Opposite direction is okay with SDs.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:39 doesn't need any more DDs.
85 is doing great with DDs currently. The loading between Sengkang West & Yishun has risen considerably with the new BTOs TOP.
103 is okay with 2 DDs. 117 is also ok IMO.
I don't understand your comment on 83. What does that even mean? 83 with a fleet of 8-9 buses should have 3 DDs, 6 SDs.
386 should have 5 SDs, 2 DDs on S-shift plying on 386A (should be introduced) that will terminate at Edgedale Plains end roundabout.
82 is okay with SDs.
974 right now is okay, surely will need 6 DDs in future for the peak loading between CCK and Boon Lay. Opposite direction is okay with SDs.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:39 doesn't need any more DDs.
85 is doing great with DDs currently. The loading between Sengkang West & Yishun has risen considerably with the new BTOs TOP.
103 is okay with 2 DDs. 117 is also ok IMO.
I don't understand your comment on 83. What does that even mean? 83 with a fleet of 8-9 buses should have 3 DDs, 6 SDs.
386 should have 5 SDs, 2 DDs on S-shift plying on 386A (should be introduced) that will terminate at Edgedale Plains end roundabout.
82 is okay with SDs.
974 right now is okay, surely will need 6 DDs in future for the peak loading between CCK and Boon Lay. Opposite direction is okay with SDs.
83 original fleet is just 7 buses..2 buses from 118 will supplement for few trips during AM & PM shift.
386 already DD tested but the roundabout is a problem..Either your front bumper will scrape the divider or your rear wheel will mounted the kerb..
Originally posted by carbikebus:83 original fleet is just 7 buses..2 buses from 118 will supplement for few trips during AM & PM shift.
386 already DD tested but the roundabout is a problem..Either your front bumper will scrape the divider or your rear wheel will mounted the kerb..
Hopefully they can do something about it and intro DDs on 386. Just take 2 DDs from 83 and make 83 a fleet of 8 buses with 2 DDs, 6 SDs. svc 3 can be fleet of 8 DDs, 12 SDs.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Hopefully they can do something about it and intro DDs on 386. Just take 2 DDs from 83 and make 83 a fleet of 8 buses with 2 DDs, 6 SDs. svc 3 can be fleet of 8 DDs, 12 SDs.
I think 386 will go into the access road at Egdefield/egdedale in future..
974�巴士乘客人数
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日期：2018年5月11日（星期五）
时间：6点15分至7点09分
裕群圈 -- 20 (0/20)
裕廊路上段 -- 21 (0/1), 21 (0/0), 21 (0/0), 30 (0/9), 30 (0/0)
先驱北路 -- 34 (0/4)
裕廊西63街 -- 29 (-5/4), 29 (-1/1), 28 (-1/0)
裕廊西64街 -- 29 (-4/5)
惹兰文礼 -- 30 (0/1), 33 (-1/4)
惹兰巴哈 -- 34 (0/1), 37 (-4/7)
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* 最高乘客人数 = 37
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Originally posted by SG1131L:974�巴士乘客人数
（裕群 >> æ¦å�‰ç�让）
日期：2018年5月11日（星期五）
时间：6点15分至7点09分
裕群圈 -- 20 (0/20)
裕廊路上段 -- 21 (0/1), 21 (0/0), 21 (0/0), 30 (0/9), 30 (0/0)
先驱北路 -- 34 (0/4)
裕廊西63街 -- 29 (-5/4), 29 (-1/1), 28 (-1/0)
裕廊西64街 -- 29 (-4/5)
惹兰文礼 -- 30 (0/1), 33 (-1/4)
惹兰巴哈 -- 34 (0/1), 37 (-4/7)
蔡�港通� -- 36 (-1/0)
蔡�港4� -- 20 (-16/0)
蔡�港大� -- 19 (-1/0), 18 (-1/0), 17 (-1/0), 20 (-1/4)
蔡�港路 -- 23 (0/3), 14 (-9/0)
æ¦å�‰çŸ¥é©¬è·¯ä¸Šæ®µ -- 0 (-14/0)
* 最高乘客人数 = 37
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* 出乎æ„�料的是，很少人在先驱地é“�站下车。看æ�¥æ�974的人通通都是è¦�å��到蔡åŽ�港一带的，没有打算转车æ�地é“�（回家）。
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